Which do you think is Williams' best Giant Monster music

[indy4 155]

Yes, I know they are opinions - however, good music composition is absolutely definable. You could never call Brahms, Stravinsky or even Williams a bad composer. It's quite easy to call Zimmer a bad composer. Harmonic control, contrapuntal discipline, orchestrational mastery, etc., etc. - all things used to measure the greatness, or lack thereof, of any composer.

Welcome to the board!

I disagree (and that's not just because I'm a Zimmer fan). However popular a certain opinion is, that's all it will ever be. You could say that it's a fact that most soundtrack fans like JW's music, but saying he's a good composer, well, an opinion is all it's ever going to be. And as there are no official measurments of what makes a good composer, these "requirments" could not be used to transform said opinion into fact. And even if there werey such requirments, who could judge whether the composer was using them properly and affectivley without including a shred of opinionated beliefs or non-factual evidence?

[Trent Hoyt 13]

Come on now, if you can't see through the humor in this post I'm gonna' have to post my Williams love elsewhere.

I see the humor in everything and I never take anything seriously. For what its worth I welcome you here.

[Music Manifesto 0]

Thanks for the nice welcomes.

I had this slice of apple pie tonight - holy jeez. Oh yeah. Almost as good as The Desert Chase.

[indy4 155]

:lol:

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Just for the record:

a) No one will ever loose anything by studying, Kant or anything else. The statement

I'm sorry, but posting an opion does not require one to study Kant.

just shows how not willing one is to learn. Posting an opinion in right terms will be helped by all the knowledge you can get. Be with the additional information of criticism by studying Kant, or anything else.

and

b) Blumenkohl, I just hope you're not sugesting I'm a "silly child".

[Ollie 1,059]

Anyhoo, about that giant monster music.................

I believe Williams mentioned that he did write some sections of WOTW's score as a nod to the old monster films of the 50's & 60's.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yes, those big dramatic brass chords heard a few times throughout the score definitely harken back to that old monster film style.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

it would have been nice if the choices had included two giant monsters but it didn't so the only choice for me is the Lost World.

Lost World is a 5 star score, WotW is more like a 3-1/2 to 4

[Ollie 1,059]

During the intersection sequence when the tripod stands up for the first time Williams gives us some heavy percussion and ominous brass that reminds me of Akira Ifukube's music for Godzilla.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

During the intersection sequence when the tripod stands up for the first time Williams gives us some heavy percussion and ominous brass that reminds me of Akira Ifukube's music for Godzilla.

you're always going on about Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music, and then you have the gall to compare him to John Williams, move over Michael Giacchino, this isn't you're site anymore its Ifukube's, the next John Williams.

[tpigeon 3]

Although I prefer The Lost World as a listening experience, War of the Worlds is a more powerfully and intensely raw score. Someone mentioned earlier that the film was horribly spotted, which I couldn't disagree more with. Music is used very sparsely in the film (compared to most action movies), and it is used appropriately. Moreoever, the music itself is rhythmic and driving. The brass notes used for the aliens/tripods is wonderfully throwback while still being scary in the context of the movie. Unlike some others, I think both the film and score are quite good, despite the film faltering in the last act. The first 70 to 80 minutes of the movie are so good that the subpar last act didn't destroy the film like it should have. The intersection scene, in particular, gives me chills just thinking about it. Perfect music, too.

Ted

[David Coscina 3]

During the intersection sequence when the tripod stands up for the first time Williams gives us some heavy percussion and ominous brass that reminds me of Akira Ifukube's music for Godzilla.

you're always going on about Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music, and then you have the gall to compare him to John Williams, move over Michael Giacchino, this isn't you're site anymore its Ifukube's, the next John Williams.

It's not likely to happen as Ifukube has passed away.

And in Japan, Ifukube was compared to John Williams because of his celebrity and popularity of his film music.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Yes, I know they are opinions - however, good music composition is absolutely definable. You could never call Brahms, Stravinsky or even Williams a bad composer. It's quite easy to call Zimmer a bad composer. Harmonic control, contrapuntal discipline, orchestrational mastery, etc., etc. - all things used to measure the greatness, or lack thereof, of any composer.

Classical western music, classical western music, classical western music.

Judging all music against the pre-established concepts (read: WESTERN SCHOLASTIC OPINIONS) of a single (and incindentally, very small) cultural subgroup is flat out idiotic in this day and age; it is the epitome of egotism.

[tpigeon 3]

Yes, I know they are opinions - however, good music composition is absolutely definable. You could never call Brahms, Stravinsky or even Williams a bad composer. It's quite easy to call Zimmer a bad composer. Harmonic control, contrapuntal discipline, orchestrational mastery, etc., etc. - all things used to measure the greatness, or lack thereof, of any composer.

Classical western music, classical western music, classical western music.

Judging all music against the pre-established concepts (read: WESTERN SCHOLASTIC OPINIONS) of a single (and incindentally, very small) cultural subgroup is flat out idiotic in this day and age; it is the epitome of egotism.

Small aside: One could substitute a lot of things for "music" in this statement, and it would still stand as a strong statement of the egotism that defines a great deal of social (even empirical) inquiry according to "The West." Nice observation.

Ted

[Hlao-roo 389]

Cultural frameworks are a central part of how we make sense of the world. I would not be so quick condemn their use as "idiotic." Lose these heuristics, and you lose your ability to function in society. Instead, we should acknowledge that we can approach our various modes of inquiry in multiple, equally valid ways.

[Ollie 1,059]

During the intersection sequence when the tripod stands up for the first time Williams gives us some heavy percussion and ominous brass that reminds me of Akira Ifukube's music for Godzilla.

you're always going on about Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music, and then you have the gall to compare him to John Williams, move over Michael Giacchino, this isn't you're site anymore its Ifukube's, the next John Williams.

Don't make me come up to Arkansas.

I can only imagine the horrific sounding theme Ifukube would have written if he had scored Jaws, it surely would top Williams mediocre effort. Or the great themes he would have written for the Dinosaurs in Jurassic Park & TLW.

Had Ifukube lived he would have shamed Williams with his military march for the Army's sequences in WOTW not to mention the grand theme for the menacing tripods. Why I bet a female solo soprano would have made an appearance.

Surely his greatness would have spread to America had he been given the chance. He would have taken over Hollywood and put Williams, Goldsmith, Herrmann and all the other greats to shame.

Forgive me for using a deceased man who has my utmost respect

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I'll semily-agree with Marky Oli.

[Ollie 1,059]

"Marky"????

What are you, my friggin grandmother????

[JoeinAR 1,949]

During the intersection sequence when the tripod stands up for the first time Williams gives us some heavy percussion and ominous brass that reminds me of Akira Ifukube's music for Godzilla.

you're always going on about Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music, and then you have the gall to compare him to John Williams, move over Michael Giacchino, this isn't you're site anymore its Ifukube's, the next John Williams.

Don't make me come up to Arkansas.

I can only imagine the horrific sounding theme Ifukube would have written if he had scored Jaws, it surely would top Williams mediocre effort. Or the great themes he would have written for the Dinosaurs in Jurassic Park & TLW.

Had Ifukube lived he would have shamed Williams with his military march for the Army's sequences in WOTW not to mention the grand theme for the menacing tripods. Why I bet a female solo soprano would have made an appearance.

Surely his greatness would have spread to America had he been given the chance. He would have taken over Hollywood and put Williams, Goldsmith, Herrmann and all the other greats to shame.

Forgive me for using a deceased man who has my utmost respect

Don't make me irradiate his corpse with nuclear radiation and make him into some modern day I-man, he's wear a red and white costume, and silver helmet, and battle giant monsters with his musical abilities.

and thanks Fiery Angel, I couldn't have asked for a better person to take my bait.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

What are you, my friggin grandmother????

I thought it was cute.

[David Coscina 3]

During the intersection sequence when the tripod stands up for the first time Williams gives us some heavy percussion and ominous brass that reminds me of Akira Ifukube's music for Godzilla.

you're always going on about Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music, and then you have the gall to compare him to John Williams, move over Michael Giacchino, this isn't you're site anymore its Ifukube's, the next John Williams.

Don't make me come up to Arkansas.

I can only imagine the horrific sounding theme Ifukube would have written if he had scored Jaws, it surely would top Williams mediocre effort. Or the great themes he would have written for the Dinosaurs in Jurassic Park & TLW.

Had Ifukube lived he would have shamed Williams with his military march for the Army's sequences in WOTW not to mention the grand theme for the menacing tripods. Why I bet a female solo soprano would have made an appearance.

Surely his greatness would have spread to America had he been given the chance. He would have taken over Hollywood and put Williams, Goldsmith, Herrmann and all the other greats to shame.

Forgive me for using a deceased man who has my utmost respect

Don't make me irradiate his corpse with nuclear radiation and make him into some modern day I-man, he's wear a red and white costume, and silver helmet, and battle giant monsters with his musical abilities.

and thanks Fiery Angel, I couldn't have asked for a better person to take my bait.

You're welcome. You also fell for my counter-sarcastic comment so we're even.

[Quintus 5,399]

and thanks Fiery Angel, I couldn't have asked for a better person to take my bait.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

[indy4 155]

Just for the record:

a) No one will ever loose anything by studying, Kant or anything else. The statement

I'm sorry, but posting an opion does not require one to study Kant.

just shows how not willing one is to learn. Posting an opinion in right terms will be helped by all the knowledge you can get. Be with the additional information of criticism by studying Kant, or anything else.

I never said Kant was bad, I said you don't need it to state an opinion. I'm not going to take Kant, but I'm certainly going to keep posting my opinions here. Maybe that's wrong in your opinion, if so, I'm sorry.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

I voted for The Lost World. I'm not a fan of his War of the Worlds score at all. To be honest... Neither score is in my Williams Top 50, put it that way.

Jaws may not have been Godzilla's size in proportion, so it doesn't really qualify for this topic. However, it's still a great score.

[indy4 155]

Nice to see you back, GoldsmithFanatic.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He went somewhere?

[indy4 155]

No, but he hasn't posted in like a week or two.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He's been around.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Lost World evokes some Kong type tone

That's because they're the EXACT same movie. I liked Lost World, but the plot lines bore too many similarities.

Personally, I loved WotW! If not for it, I wouldn't be here today. I used to(and probably would've continued to) only listen to Star Wars, never expanding my horizons, at least, until I saw WotW. I thought Star Wars was all the good Williams there was, then I picked up this CD, which led me to try more Williams, and eventually, other composers.

[Hlao-roo 389]

He's been around.

Rowr!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I voted for The Lost World. I'm not a fan of his War of the Worlds score at all. To be honest... Neither score is in my Williams Top 50, put it that way.

The Lost World not even among Williams' best 50 works?

That's a typo, right?

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

I voted for The Lost World. I'm not a fan of his War of the Worlds score at all. To be honest... Neither score is in my Williams Top 50, put it that way.

The Lost World not even among Williams' best 50 works?

That's a typo, right?

Nope. I'm just not a fan of the score. I have no love for the film either for that matter.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

But... 50?

Wow.

[tpigeon 3]

I think Williams really cut loose on The Lost World. I can understand why some felt the score was lacking, especially since it was such a stylistic departure from Jurassic Park, but the score on CD and the score in the film is fun, frenetic action writing from Williams, the likes of which he probably hasn't produced since.

Ted

[Ollie 1,059]

Say what you want about the film, which really isn't that bad, despite the tacked on ending. But the score is definately one of Williams top efforts, it sounds like he had some fun writing it. "Rescuing Sarah" is one cue I would love to have complete.

[robthehand 3]

I absolutely love The Lost World score. Possibly one of my top 10 for Williams, if not that then certainly top 15. I like it much more than Jurassic Park, which has never been a favourite of mine.

As for the film... I don't know what Mark's big problem with the ending is, since I'm not sure I've ever made it that far. If I have it was 10 years ago, and I don't remember. I've tried to sit through the film a few times since, never managed it.

[Ollie 1,059]

Oh I don't have a real problem with it but it was probably uneccessary. But it makes for a fun ride.

So we don't hear the whining about SPOILERS for a popular movie that is almost 11 years old,

They bring the junior T-Rex and Daddy Rex back to San Diego, of course the Male T-rex kills everyone on board the boat enroute to California and then breaks loose and roams San Diego until it's recaptured.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

goldsmithfan, I too wasnt a big fan of the score, but my good friend Stefan, and another poster, ChrisChrusher, insisted that I at the least give it another try, along with Hook, and Last Crusade.

I did as they asked. I've never warmed up to Hook or Last Crusade the way they wished, but the Lost World clicked. Of course I always loved the main title, you should hear it live by the way, but as a stand alone effort, apart from the film, it is superb. I do love Jurassic Park, still think JP is a better score than Schindler's List, but I think Lost World is better than both. Its amazing all the talk on the board about Amistad should have beaten Titanic, thats utter bull$h!t, Amistad is not, was not even in the Lost Worlds league, if any JW score should have been nominated it was Lost World over the rather generic Amistad.

[tpigeon 3]

goldsmithfan, I too wasnt a big fan of the score, but my good friend Stefan, and another poster, ChrisChrusher, insisted that I at the least give it another try, along with Hook, and Last Crusade.

I did as they asked. I've never warmed up to Hook or Last Crusade the way they wished, but the Lost World clicked. Of course I always loved the main title, you should hear it live by the way, but as a stand alone effort, apart from the film, it is superb. I do love Jurassic Park, still think JP is a better score than Schindler's List, but I think Lost World is better than both. Its amazing all the talk on the board about Amistad should have beaten Titanic, thats utter bull$h!t, Amistad is not, was not even in the Lost Worlds league, if any JW score should have been nominated it was Lost World over the rather generic Amistad.

The Lost World is a heck of a score. Some of its finest moments, actually, are small little snippets that didn't make it onto the CD. Nevertheless, as it is, the album represents a great adventure score with all kind of jungle-y rhythms and sounds. Williams really had fun with this one. Say all you want about how the raptor scenes were rushed and unexciting, or that the T-Rex finale was a laughable bore, but Williams wrote some great music for those scenes. I still see the film as something of a failure, but an immensely interesting one.

Joe: your comments about Amistad I simply cannot agree with. While some of the more inspirational material, notably the "Dry Your Tears, Africa" theme is overtly sentimental to annoying effect, and that it's patriotic underscore for Adams is somewhat conventions, but the music in tracks 2-6, which mostly deal with Cinque's theme and La Amistad at sea is quite unique, subtle, and powerful. "Sierra Leonne, 1839 and The Capture of Cinque" is a wonderful track bookened by some great writing, especially the last minute of the cue (which feature some synth work). The next track, "Crossing the Atlantic" is also very memorable, I think. And "cinque's theme" really captures the soft-spokenness of Cinque and his honorable sense of dedication and humanity.

Ted

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

goldsmithfan, I too wasnt a big fan of the score, but my good friend Stefan, and another poster, ChrisChrusher, insisted that I at the least give it another try, along with Hook, and Last Crusade.

I did as they asked. I've never warmed up to Hook or Last Crusade the way they wished, but the Lost World clicked. Of course I always loved the main title, you should hear it live by the way, but as a stand alone effort, apart from the film, it is superb. I do love Jurassic Park, still think JP is a better score than Schindler's List, but I think Lost World is better than both.

Hmmm, maybe it's just because there are so many other Williams scores I prefer, I mean I don't hate the score. I do however love Hook and really enjoy listening to The Last Crusade too. As for Schindler's List; It is a rare Williams score that as a whole just doesn't work for me outside of the film. I think the film itself is superb.

The principal theme is the only piece I often go back too.

[indy4 155]

Say what you want about the film, which really isn't that bad, despite the tacked on ending. But the score is definately one of Williams top efforts, it sounds like he had some fun writing it. "Rescuing Sarah" is one cue I would love to have complete.

Mark, I often don't agree with you, but in this case, I do completely.