Should Amistad have won the Oscar instead of Titanic?

[Neimoidian 14]

Seven Years in Tibet should have won, but it wasn't even nominated...

[Josh500 1,615]

Titanic works very well in the film . . . I think no one can dispute that. In the end, that's all that matters.

I remember reading somewhere (filmtracks.com, I think it was) that John Williams was really pissed when he lost that year. Maybe that was due to the fact that he was asked to score Titanic himself but declined, possibly due to schedule conflicts: he was already attached to TLW, Amistad, and SYIT. Still, I can't help but think that he really would have loved to score that picture . . . although, if he had, the Best Score Oscar would have gone to someone else, very likely.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

John Williams probably did not want to rip off Enya.

[Josh500 1,615]

Funny, I always thought that James Horner ripped off (in part) John Williams's Far and Away score, which of course includes the famous Enya song.

[Hellgi 0]

Titanic works very well in the film . . . I think no one can dispute that. In the end, that's all that matters.

I don't agree. These stupid synth orchestrations and choir completely throw me out of the movie everytime. I mean, come on, when you see the Titanic for the first time, the music is well written but so badly orchestrated, it makes the (amazing) full shot completely flat to me. It just kills it. Happens a lot in the movie.

Maybe that was due to the fact that he was asked to score Titanic himself but declined, possibly due to schedule conflicts

Hmm, didn't know about that... any source?

[Neimoidian 14]

Maybe that was due to the fact that he was asked to score Titanic himself but declined, possibly due to schedule conflicts

Hmm, didn't know about that... any source?

From what I know many composers were asked to score Titanic. Many enough to make me wonder why JH wasn't asked in the first place.

[Josh500 1,615]

I don't agree. These stupid synth orchestrations and choir completely throw me out of the movie everytime. I mean, come on, when you see the Titanic for the first time, the music is well written but so badly orchestrated, it makes the (amazing) full shot completely flat to me. It just kills it. Happens a lot in the movie.

Hmmmm, I don't quite agree. If you compare ANY score to a John Williams score, the orchestration is apt to appear insufficient. But that's only if you pay attention too closely. I think the orchestration of Titanic is nothing special (nothing to write home about, you might say), but it's not too shabby, either. In fact, the score perfectly supports the visuals without calling too much undue attention to it.

Hmm, didn't know about that... any source?

I read it in The Making of Titanic/James Cameron biography. Forgot the title of the book, but that JW was Cameron's first choice is a generally known fact.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I don't mind the synths in Titanic at all. Never did, really. I don't get why so many people get all iffy about them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Same here, they are part of the charm of this soundtrack for me.

[Hellgi 0]

I don't mind the synths in Titanic at all. Never did, really. I don't get why so many people get all iffy about them.

Because its sounds crappy and completely fake!

And since the movie is supposed to make me believe that they recreated the freakin' Titanic, I believe a real-life score for orchestra + choir would have done a much better job to support the visuals.

I don't want to compare it necessarily with a JW-type score (even though that movie definitely called for something like that in my mind); it's just that even Horner had better orchestrated scores in the past, so I just don't agree with the artistic direction he took for the score.

On another note, I heard that Horner only had, like, two or three weeks to write the score. Anybody heard that too? It could explain why he went that direction.

Hellgi

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Funny, I always thought that James Horner ripped off (in part) John Williams's Far and Away score, which of course includes the famous Enya song.

But Williams does not have anything to do with that Enya Song, unless you meant the 'irish' music.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

But full orchestra and choir is so... traditional. It might not have set the score apart as much.

It also uses contemporary sounds to underline that the people living 85 years ago at the time were not so different from the people in 1997 (or so Cameron writes in the liner notes).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good points.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

The Titanic score was so popular that it was impossible for it to lose. Horner deserved it, the score worked really well in the movie.

[Salacius 7]

Amistad,

It's a beautiful score

I don't mind the synths in Titanic at all. Never did, really. I don't get why so many people get all iffy about them.

Because its sounds crappy and completely fake!

And since the movie is supposed to make me believe that they recreated the freakin' Titanic, I believe a real-life score for orchestra + choir would have done a much better job to support the visuals.

I don't want to compare it necessarily with a JW-type score (even though that movie definitely called for something like that in my mind); it's just that even Horner had better orchestrated scores in the past, so I just don't agree with the artistic direction he took for the score.

On another note, I heard that Horner only had, like, two or three weeks to write the score. Anybody heard that too? It could explain why he went that direction.

Hellgi

Don't forget that he was taking the direction given to him by the producers and directors of the film.

[Hellgi 0]

Don't forget that he was taking the direction given to him by the producers and directors of the film.

Of course - but the fact that it's not Horner's fault doesn't make the score good.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Titanic was fully deserving of the win.

[Ollie 1,059]

Hellgi, James Cameron wanted John Williams to score Titanic but I'm not sure if he ever got around to actually asking him. At the time Williams was busy with TLW and Horner is represented by the same agency so he managed to get a look at the script and basically asked Cameron if he could score the film and put all the mess that happened on Aliens behind them. There is a book on the making of Titanic, god knows I should remember the name since I've pointed it out on this baord so many times, that mentions the scoring of the film.

Cameron wanted a big name composer for the project.

[Red 75]

Titanic deserved to win, at least more so than Amistad. I say this both as a fan of Amistad and not such a huge fan of Titanic (Horner has done much better IMO).

[Salacius 7]

Seven Years in Tibet should have won, but it wasn't even nominated...

Ah man, I LOVE this score!!!

Don't forget that he was taking the direction given to him by the producers and directors of the film.

Of course - but the fact that it's not Horner's fault doesn't make the score good.

Agreed, but it is another example of how destructive some directors can be

[Hellgi 0]

Agreed, but it is another example of how destructive some directors can be

Believe me I'm fully aware of that, ahah

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Dylan sounds like I do when I eat 12 sheets of sanding paper and start to sing.

Not his fault that he smoked and drank every day, well actually it is, but he is an amazing musician nonetheless. You do realize his voice only sounds like that now, in his early years he was perfectly fine.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

As to JW, he should have won in 2005 (MoaG).

Thank you! Nobody(that i've talked to on other forums) agrees with me! Damn Gustavo and his random guitar playing!

...

I think amistad should've one. Titanic's score is just too... dull. Not boring, just dull. Although, I'd argue it deserved best song, but that's not the issue. "Cry your tears, Afrika" just kicked too much ass. The oscars were jealous and ignored it on purpose

[Koray Savas 2,251]

If John Williams was going to win for anything in '05 is should have been Munich.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Hey, i liked munich and think it deserved an oscar and was on the complexity level of schindler's list. I just liked MoaG better. that's the only soundtrack i've been able to only listen to for 3 months.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't forget that he was taking the direction given to him by the producers and directors of the film.

Of course - but the fact that it's not Horner's fault doesn't make the score good.

25 million CD's sold tells me a different story.

[Romão 2,274]

Seven Years in Tibet should have won, but it wasn't even nominated...

Ah man, I LOVE this score!!!

It's one of my absolute all time favorites. Too bad it was so badly represented and butchered in the movie.

[Hellgi 0]

25 million CD's sold tells me a different story.

It's a known fact , if a product is successful, it necessarily means it's a masterpiece.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

While there are snippets of Titanic that I think could have been polished a little, the score as a while is excellent. And even after familiarizing myself with its many quirks, I then feel that I wouldn't have the score any other way. The thematic material is memorable, it's evocative, and it works. Certainly deserved the Oscar.

[mahler3 478]

Personally, I feel Amistad is a superior score (with yet another career defining Tim Morrison solo) but Titanic deserved its win (even just to put James out of his misery after storming out of the 1996 Oscars in a huff when he lost). Even his speech was rather arrogant, stating something about him coming close so many times before or similar.

Titanic is actually better appreciated as performed by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra on the Varese Horner compilation - as it replaces the cheesey electronics with a choir. Furthermore, the concert hall sound adds to the music too, gives it a much needed boost in my opinion.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

When I went to Fox Studios Australia in 2001, I went on the Titanic ride and exhibition, which was very good. Every time I listen to "Take Her to Sea, Mr. Murdoch", I always think about that wonderful day at Fox.

[Hitch 57]

You Murdoch loving aussie

IMO, Horner should have won for ALIENS (best score of 1986) or FIELD OF DREAMS (best score of 1989).

[Morlock 11]

Field of Dreams is not the best score of 1989. Aliens is certainly one of the very best of that year.

[Josh500 1,615]

Funny, I always thought that James Horner ripped off (in part) John Williams's Far and Away score, which of course includes the famous Enya song.

But Williams does not have anything to do with that Enya Song, unless you meant the 'irish' music.

I meant the whole soundtrack, so John Williams's contribution plus that Enya song.

Personally, I feel Amistad is a superior score (with yet another career defining Tim Morrison solo) but Titanic deserved its win (even just to put James out of his misery after storming out of the 1996 Oscars in a huff when he lost). Even his speech was rather arrogant, stating something about him coming close so many times before or similar.

Does anyone happen to have the 1997 Academy Awards on tape/DVD? Can you put it on YouTube? Not the whole thing, but James Horner and James Cameron winning I'd very much love to see.

I'm King of the World . . . !!!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's a known fact , if a product is successful, it necessarily means it's a masterpiece.

I never stated it was a masterpiece, it's very, very, very good though.

[Hellgi 0]

Be it a "Masterpiece" or "very, very good", I still don't think you can support that kind of argument by saying how well the product sold.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Horner winning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNloQ4GzlH4

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Horner winning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNloQ4GzlH4

i dont care seing it he surely copied Williams speech on 1994 j/k

[Ollie 1,059]

That phony accent always cracks me up.

[robthehand 3]

What is it? It sounds like an American doing a bad Welsh accent, or vice versa.

[Ollie 1,059]

Whatever it is, it's silly.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

"Should Amistad have won the Oscar instead of Titanic?"

No.

This is one occasion where John Williams had nothing on James Horner.

I've always regarded Amistad as yet another one of Williams' average 90's efforts.

Titanic is not only a fantastic score... It's in a league that Amistad won't ever be in.

As for the people who voted in this poll for Amistad?

You are all either

A) Fanboys OR

B) The ignorant minority.

Pretty much the same thing really.

It's an extremely simplistic evaluation.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I can't believe 18 folks here were stupid enough to think Amistad is better than Titanic.

[Morlock 11]

Elegantly put, as usual.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I wasn't trying for elegant, I was being forcefully blunt.

If I wanted to be elegant, I would have said

It is most difficult to believe that 18 of our most diverse group here at JWfan have suffered synapsis failure, all at this most unique time and place.

[mahler3 478]

A) A complete and utter Williams fanboy

OR

B) The ignorant minority.

A = Williams fans that are often more discerning and appreciate his lesser known scores too

B = Realise that Titanic was admittedly deserving of its award but know that Horner will never compose anything that surpasses Williams' craft

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

A = Williams fans that are often more discerning and appreciate his lesser known scores too

B = Realise that Titanic was admittedly deserving of its award but know that Horner will never compose anything that surpasses Williams' craft

You've just negated yourself with that last remark. A fanboy response.

Horner has composed many scores that are superior to Williams'. Plagiarisms aside.

[mahler3 478]

You didn't read my post - certainly there are plenty of Horner scores I prefer but the actual musical craft of Williams and the structure of Amistad in this case is far greater than Titanic.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

You didn't read my post - certainly there are plenty of Horner scores I prefer but the actual musical craft of Williams and the structure of Amistad in this case is far greater than Titanic.

Please do not assume on my behalf. I read your comments perfectly.

As for your opinion on Amistad, it's just that "an opinion".

The consensus think Titanic is a far superior score.

[tpigeon 3]

You didn't read my post - certainly there are plenty of Horner scores I prefer but the actual musical craft of Williams and the structure of Amistad in this case is far greater than Titanic.

Please do not assume on my behalf. I read your comments perfectly.

As for your opinion on Amistad, it's just that "an opinion".

The consensus think Titanic is a far superior score.

Consensus is a collection of opinions, all equally as pointless as one opinion if no one cares to actually engage each other about why we hold our opinions.

Ted