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9 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I'm sure if it made it onto the album, it was a conscious choice - why, who knows?

 

Seems pretty strange to not use that version in the episode then, if it's the superior one. I mean, there's no other instance I can think of where many cues in a soundtrack have been recorded by live orchestra, but then the album uses the live recordings for all but one... If most of the album versions were mockups, then okay. But for just one cue, and a cue that sounds really good live? Doesn't make sense. Even the "Clone Wars Download" behind-the-scenes video for that episode, featured the real recording. :blink: If this is all we're going to get, I wish someone would just come out and say what the deal is, lol. It would be easier to come to terms with the album if they either A. said it's a mistake and that they'll fix it, or B. said explicitly that it's not a mistake, and that they simply preferred this version. But as it stands now... it seems to me and others be a mistake.

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Fresh from SDCC - The Clone Wars is coming back, exclusively on disney’s forthcoming streaming service.  They showed a trailer, and I’m assuming it’ll be released online soon.   Edited:  and

Just got around to finally watching the last 4 episodes... wow.   I don't think any of us thought the series would be anything like it ended up being back when the film came out. Even the mu

His brain has rotted from watching hours upon hours of The Clone Wars. A man can only take so much...

24 minutes ago, CGCJ said:

It's only been just over a month, how is that long enough to say they're ignoring people. Who have people even asked anyway? David Glen Russell, the composer of the cue, hasn't posted anything on social media since the series ended, and none of the other composers seem to have much if any social media presence... It is ridiculous to expect anything to have been done about the track on the album in such a short amount of time, I'd honestly just accept what's on the album and hope that David will eventually release the orchestra recording of the cue himself.

 

To further your own point, it actually hasn't even been a month, haha. I think the final ep/soundtrack came out a couple weeks ago? Maybe a little longer? And I don't think it's "ridiculous," since some services (like Spotify) can make changes to albums in the span of a couple days. That said, I'm more puzzled by the lack of messaging on the issue. And I don't see why they'd leave it as is on-album, if it is indeed a mistake. Would that not be embarrassing for them to permanently leave it that way, esp when it is so easy to send in the correct file? Seems like if they want their album to be correct, they'd make the fix.

 

As for the "ignoring" thing, I'm just going off of what I've seen. I've seen some people post online comments to some of the other show composers, to see if they're aware of it or could maybe pass the word along to someone who could fix it. They haven't replied or "liked" or anything on the subject, as far as I've seen, but they've still been posting, liking and replying to other stuff that people say to them. Idk, maybe they just don't know what to say about it.

 

But that's my main qualm; it's not so much that I actually expected it to be fixed on all the platforms by now. Rather, I expected one of the composers to put out a Tweet or post saying "Hey guys, here's the deal with the Battle of Yerbana track." And if it's a mistake, say it is. And if it's not, say it's not. My point is simply that they obviously know about it, and have seen people talking about it, yet no one will take 5 seconds to say what is going on.

 

And the obvious downside to it just getting put out by the composer himself, is of course that it would no doubt just be some crappy mp3. Considering I bought the album in lossless and have all the other soundtracks in that format, it would kind of suck to have one of the best cues be a lower quality. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

16 minutes ago, CGCJ said:

It's the same just with samples (like all of the non-orchestra cues).

 

There's at least one difference I've seen pointed out in the trumpets, in one of the triplet licks around like 16 or 17 seconds in. It seems it was revised between the time the samples version was made, and the orch recording session. So, the samples version doesn't even have all the same notes we hear in the show version, which is additionally unfortunate.

 

18 minutes ago, The River (Fal) said:

Are there any compositional differences? (lack of choir etc?)

 

Like CG said, it's basically the same. The problem is, like every other cue on this album has live orchestra (or at least sounds exactly as it sounds in the actual show), so this one (one of the most prominent cues in the final arc- a big battle scene) sort of sticks out in the midst of the listening experience. If this was a typical TCW soundtrack/story arc where everything is samples, then that's one thing. But when they took the time to record with live orchestra, it's noticeable and the track suffers for it. Also though, the live version has at least one change, note-wise.

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5 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

There's at least one difference I've seen pointed out in the trumpets, in one of the triplet licks around like 16 or 17 seconds in. It seems it was revised between the time the samples version was made, and the orch recorded session. So the samples version doesn't even have all the same notes we hear in the show version.

How do you know that's not just a performance difference?

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6 minutes ago, CGCJ said:

How do you know that's not just a performance difference?

 

Here, this guy posted the difference: 

 

 

Listen for yourself. It's a fast lick, but it's pretty clear if you're familiar with the show version: The trumpets in the show version go back up to concert pitch Ab, in the triplet.

 

It's an actual different note, not just a mistake or a weird trumpet-playing thing. Sounds like there might be a horn or lower-pitched instrument also playing Ab. So it seems like sometime between when the samples cue was put together and when the orchestra session occurred, the composer altered that note. (Imo, the revised version with the Ab sounds much better!)

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That would be a weird preference, but one I'd accept, lol. Have never heard of a composer preferring a samples version of a track that they've gotten a live orchestra to record.

 

But then, why didn't they use the samples version in the show? :huh:

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3 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

That would be a weird preference, but one I'd accept, lol. Have never heard of a composer preferring a samples version of a track that they've gotten a live orchestra to record.

 

But then, why didn't they use the samples version in the show? :huh:

Because that was the version that worked best for the film ;)

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Like I said, I've just never heard of a composer preferring samples to a live orchestra recording of their work. Most composers would be thrilled at the chance to get an orchestra to record their stuff. And wouldn't the orchestra musicians/management maybe think it a bit weird to have their recording left off the album and replaced with samples?

 

I'm open to accepting the track that was put on the album, but I just hope the composer or someone involved in the album production will come out sometime and say what happened. Bc it's glaringly obvious to anyone who remembers the cue from the show, who then goes and listens to the soundtrack. And this has never happened with any other TCW cue that was recorded with live orch, so you can understand why people would be puzzled/let-down by it.

 

As for me personally, I had been counting the days till the soundtrack release ever since first seeing the episode that had this cue in it, lol. Spent the following three weeks memorizing the cue by watching the scene over and over on YouTube on pretty much a daily basis. 

 

So, it was kind of sad to go from being thrilled at seeing "Battle of Yerbana" in the tracklist, to a few seconds later realizing that it wasn't the same. Whereas on the other hand, everything else on the album sounded just like how it sounded in the show. So that felt like pretty bad luck, lol, that of all the tracks for this sort of thing to happen to, it was this one. :P

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36 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

But that's my main qualm; it's not so much that I actually expected it to be fixed on all the platforms by now. Rather, I expected one of the composers to put out a Tweet or post saying "Hey guys, here's the deal with the Battle of Yerbana track." And if it's a mistake, say it is. And if it's not, say it's not. My point is simply that they obviously know about it, and have seen people talking about it, yet no one will take 5 seconds to say what is going on.

 

And the obvious downside to it just getting put out by the composer himself, is of course that it would no doubt just be some crappy mp3. Considering I bought the album in lossless and have all the other soundtracks in that format, it would kind of suck to have one of the best cues be a lower quality. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

You really seem to be overthinking all of this, just let it be. Honestly, the fact that we even got not only official releases for the final series but one for each arc is amazing, and to be honest I too bought the releases in lossless, but I really don't care how the music gets released as long it does - be it officially, on a composers site, or even through use in a video game, as long it's available, surely that's better than not having it - there's already so many great cues released by the composers themselves (think of the series 5 Ahsoka arc), do you just only care about the official releases because those are "crappy mp3". (Sorry if that got a bit off topic, you're honestly seeming ridiculous with your complete dismissal of a possible alternate source for the 'correct' cue)

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1 hour ago, CGCJ said:

 

You really seem to be overthinking all of this, just let it be. Honestly, the fact that we even got not only official releases for the final series but one for each arc is amazing, and to be honest I too bought the releases in lossless, but I really don't care how the music gets released as long it does - be it officially, on a composers site, or even through use in a video game, as long it's available, surely that's better than not having it - there's already so many great cues released by the composers themselves (think of the series 5 Ahsoka arc), do you just only care about the official releases because those are "crappy mp3". (Sorry if that got a bit off topic, you're honestly seeming ridiculous with your complete dismissal of a possible alternate source for the 'correct' cue)

 

Not trying to seem ridiculous. It just bothers me when mistakes get made that could have been avoided or which could be easily fixed.

 

And I know I definitely overthink things, so I'm sorry. But still.

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Kevin Kiner is cancelled. That does it. It was very easy to tell by how the orchestra was mixed on CW and Rebels that he doesn't care at all if the orchestra sounded organic. No one with that kind of attitude should touch Star Wars.

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11 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Maybe he doesn't like releasing the live orchestral recordings of the other composers' cues so that his sound better in comparison. :whistle:

 

I actually wondered this... David Glen Russell's cue is better than most if not all of Kiner's own stuff for that arc of the show. Did they both have some sort of fight behind-the-scenes, and this is Kiner's way of getting at him?

 

I mean, David Glen Russell has not Tweeted since before the final episode aired. The guy's Twitter header pic is a shot from that scene, that the cue is from. And one of his last Tweets, is about how much fun it was for him to score that scene. He seemed very proud of the final result! Is he sad/upset by how his cue got treated? I mean, if I were him and this was some decision by Kiner, I'd be fuming!

 

Could be one reason why DGR and the other composers have neglected to publicly comment on this (even after multiple people have Tweeted at them, asking what the deal was): Maybe this was the result of some drama?

 

55 minutes ago, CGCJ said:

Update on the Battle of Yerbana track:

 

Makes absolutely no sense though, to go from an orchestra recording to a samples version - in what way is this better?!

 

It's not better. If samples are better, then one wonders why Kiner didn't use the samples version of all his cues, on the soundtrack? Why would he want something "even better" for another guy's cue, but he just wants the (apparently somehow inferior) live orchestra recordings for his own? No, something doesn't sit right with me about this. And the timing of David Glen Russell's absence from Twitter seems like no coincidence. He's probably upset by this, and rightfully so!

 

17 minutes ago, Drew said:

Kevin Kiner is cancelled. That does it. It was very easy to tell by how the orchestra was mixed on CW and Rebels that he doesn't care at all if the orchestra sounded organic. No one with that kind of attitude should touch Star Wars.

 

I've just never heard of a composer outright saying that samples are BETTER than live orch, lol. By that logic, why did he use the live version in the show itself? Heck, why did he waste $$ on having an orchestra record it?

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9 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

I've just never heard of a composer outright saying that samples are BETTER than live orch, lol. By that logic, why did he use the live version in the show itself? Heck, why did he waste $$ on having an orchestra record it?

 

Well, Junkie XL Brass from Orchestral Tools sounds better than Holkenborg's own orchestral brass recordings. :lol:

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34 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Maybe he doesn't like releasing the live orchestral recordings of the other composers' cues so that his sound better in comparison. :whistle:

Not impossible. I recall him having an ego slip moment and saying recently something akin to "You know, I've composed more music for Star Wars than John Williams".

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That's messed up. Lol, I can't believe this. Is the reason we aren't getting the live orch version of this great cue, literally just bc Kevin Kiner has ego issues and can't handle someone else's music sounding really good?

 

Really, if he is so confident that midi sounds "even better," than live orchestra, I want to know why he even wasted money on an orchestra? Or, why didn't he use the midi versions of his own tracks? Since that would apparently make his music sound better...

 

Honestly, this is seeming more and more like just a stupid, mean-spirited, spiteful move on Kiner's part—one that he probably thought wouldn't garner the attention of fans and demand a response. If this is the case, it would mean he's making the fans/listeners/purchasers of his album suffer the consequences of his own private drama/feelings towards the composer. Which would be incredibly immature.

 

The fact that David Glen Russell hasn't come out and said anything about this (or anything about anything, for that matter) since this all went down, is very telling imo. The guy went from saying he was proud of this particular scene and cue, to radio silence... I wonder if we'll ever know what really went down, but I'm thinking Kevin Kiner doesn't look too good.

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3 hours ago, Drew said:

Kevin Kiner is cancelled. That does it. It was very easy to tell by how the orchestra was mixed on CW and Rebels that he doesn't care at all if the orchestra sounded organic. No one with that kind of attitude should touch Star Wars.

His brain has rotted from watching hours upon hours of The Clone Wars.

A man can only take so much...

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3 hours ago, Fabulin said:

I recall him having an ego slip moment and saying recently something akin to "You know, I've composed more music for Star Wars than John Williams".

I'm pretty sure all those rewrites on The Rise of Skywalker put Williams back in the lead. :lol:

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No diss, but I listened to this album the other day and would never be able to pick out which tracks are sampled and which tracks are live.  The way it's mixed, it all kind of sounds sampled.  I certainly didn't pick out the Battle of Yerbana track.  It was a good listen and a nice wrap-up though.

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The composer has spoken: 

 

 

I must say, did not expect to see this. Why did it take him multiple weeks to comment on this? Was he embarrassed that he preferred the midi version to live orchestra, and didn't want to draw attention to the fact and appear to throw the orchestra under the bus?

 

EDIT: Lol, is it possible he just thought the City of Prague Philharmonic sounded that bad, that he'd even prefer a midi over them? I mean, sometimes they don't sound too great, but I enjoyed their performance in this particular cue. He seems like a composer who doesn't get a lot of his stuff performed by live orchestra, so it's possible he falls in love with how his midi demos sound, to the point that anything different sounds "bad" to him... Even though to the rest of us who haven't spent days/weeks with a midi version, hearing it with live orchestra automatically sounds superior.

 

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1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

EDIT: Lol, is it possible he just thought the City of Prague Philharmonic sounded that bad, that he'd even prefer a midi over them? I mean, sometimes they don't sound too great, but I enjoyed their performance in this particular cue. He seems like a composer who doesn't get a lot of his stuff performed by live orchestra, so it's possible he falls in love with how his midi demos sound, to the point that anything different sounds "bad" to him... Even though to the rest of us who haven't spent days/weeks with a midi version, hearing it with live orchestra automatically sounds superior.

 

They didn't use the Prague Philharmonic for the last four episodes, only the first eight. They used the Budapest Scoring Symphonic Orchestra. They also were used a few times on Rebels too, according to their website.

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14 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

They didn't use the Prague Philharmonic for the last four episodes, only the first eight. They used the Budapest Scoring Symphonic Orchestra. They also were used a few times on Rebels too, according to their website.

According to this interview:

Quote

Q: To what extent does, or has, the CLONE WARS score been orchestral versus using a digital instrumentation?

Kevin Kiner: We’ve always had real players, but it has varied. We pick our spots. They gave me a budget for an orchestra and that’s smattered throughout the episodes. So we always have real players on our scores no matter what, even if it’s just a few brass and violins players. Also, episodes 10,11 and 12 of season 7 are all with the City of Prague Philharmonic.

 

You can even see the Prague Philharmonic recording the "Y-Wing" cue from the final episode here.

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27 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

They didn't use the Prague Philharmonic for the last four episodes, only the first eight. They used the Budapest Scoring Symphonic Orchestra. They also were used a few times on Rebels too, according to their website.

 

They used both City of Prague, and Budapest. The "Yerbana" track is clearly Prague, based on how it sounds.

 

That said, what does everyone think about this latest update? @CGCJ, thoughts? At least it's cleared up, I guess.

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22 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

That said, what does everyone think about this latest update? @CGCJ, thoughts? At least it's cleared up, I guess.

While I completely disagree that it sounds better, I respect the opinion of those who work on the music as ultimately they decide what gets released and who are we to argue with them. I'm just glad we got as much as we did as I wouldn't have been surprised if all we got was just a few tracks from the composers themselves with no official release like with the earlier series.

 

Honestly, I'm quite embarrassed to be a fan of the music after seeing the reaction on social media of people immediately accepting one fan's ridiculous theory/conclusion that I have no idea how anyone could ever come to over something so simple as 1 track on an album not being the version that got used.

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1 hour ago, CGCJ said:

According to this interview:

 

You can even see the Prague Philharmonic recording the "Y-Wing" cue from the final episode here.

 

1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

They used both City of Prague, and Budapest. The "Yerbana" track is clearly Prague, based on how it sounds.

 

Now that I think about it that's probably true. I think the Budapest orchestra mainly did some of the "softer" cues, as seen in the BTS footage. It seemed to be a smaller configuration, if I remember correctly. They clearly used a larger portion of the Prague Philharmonic then, as it sounds a lot more "full" than the rest of the season (similar to what they did for the last few episodes of Season 5).

 

I wish they would've released the cue when they arrive on Mandalore. Plus there's a nice quote of the Death Watch motif in there.

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1 hour ago, CGCJ said:

While I completely disagree that it sounds better, I respect the opinion of those who work on the music as ultimately they decide what gets released and who are we to argue with them. I'm just glad we got as much as we did as I wouldn't have been surprised if all we got was just a few tracks from the composers themselves with no official release like with the earlier series.

 

Honestly, I'm quite embarrassed to be a fan of the music after seeing the reaction on social media of people immediately accepting one fan's ridiculous theory/conclusion that I have no idea how anyone could ever come to over something so simple as 1 track on an album not being the version that got used.

 

I agree. I feel a lot better about it knowing that it was at least intentional.

 

And yeah I get that, though to be fair I saw multiple people thinking that might be the case (including here). DGR's absence + the statement about it being Kiner's decision, helped fuel that theory. Still think that was a weird statement to make, as it kind of threw the live orchestra under the bus... Then again, maybe that's why they seemed reluctant to comment on it. It's entirely likely they just weren't too pleased with the orchestra version, but didn't want to draw attention to that fact. Which is understandable.

 

Oh well, at least we got what music we did, and I feel better knowing that the composer is pleased with what was released!

 

18 minutes ago, Drew said:

Oh, so now the composer we were defending has pulled a Lorne Balfe. Time to rethink our rhetoric.

 

Yeah, I honestly don't see what he likes so much about that midi version... I mean, it's his preference, but still. Strange decision imo.

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Who knows. The good news is, the track as it stands sounds no worse than 99% of other tracks in the show, throughout past seasons. It's just the knowledge/experience hearing that this one also got recorded by a live orchestra, that makes the midi version seem so bad...

 

If there were no live version to compare it to, people would no doubt just think it's a pretty good cue and enjoy it for what it is. For instance, I love a lot of David Glen Russell's stuff in the prior release (episodes 5-8). Of course it's all midi, but that's fine and that's what was expected, since that's what was in the show. The music is still pretty darn good. The problem with this is simply that it's a bit jarring to go from hearing something that is live in the show, to the soundtrack album where it is just computer playback.

 

Still, like @CGCJ points out, we're lucky to even have gotten these albums, considering how much past music in this show went unreleased! It was a nice treat. And it's good that this issue can be put to rest.

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  • 1 month later...

I haven't seen this discussed here, but I found it very curious. There is a melody in the last episode of The Clone Wars that sounds very similar to one from Fallen Order

 

I think this cue wasn't released, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

 

And this one...

 

 

Not the same, but very similar I think. Most likely there is no intentional conection, but I found it interesting while I was watching CW

 

Thoughts?

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