So, what exactly is Media Ventures?

[m0hawk 1]

It seems to garner a lot of hate, and is possibly linked to Hans Zimmer, from what I've seen.

[Henry B 50]

Media Ventures shut down in 2004. Hans Zimmer's current company is called Remote Control Productions. Zimmer takes on apprentice composers and has them write pieces of his scores for him. Many "graduates" of Media Ventures have gone on to become successful film composers in their own right.

[A24 4,331]

Compare it to giving a case to a group of lawyers (MV) or to just one (JW).

[Ollie 1,059]

They are the worst thing to happen to film scoring. While I actually like Zimmer as a person because I like his personality, he comes across rather interesting in interviews, his music and the scoring by committee approach is atrocious.

A few composers have managed to form their own successful careers, John Powell comes to mind.

But their approach to layering the orchestra with synth choirs and synths imitating orchestras is a poor idea and gives the music a cheap sound, plus a majority of the music ends up sounding the same. It sounds like they are just pulling the cues from library stock music and at times can sound like someone pounding on a keyboard with no sense of purpose.

Now Zimmer and co have written some music that doesn't always rely on synths, Driving Miss Daisy comes to mind, and while a nice break from their usual output the music doesn't really stand out as anything special.

[Smeagol 0]

They're one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, along with HSM 1 and 2.... the fourth one comes next year with the theatrical release of HSM 3.

And then we're F***ed

Just Kidding.... kind of

[King Mark 3,631]

. Zimmer takes on apprentice composers and has them write pieces of his scores for him. Many "graduates" of Media Ventures have gone on to become sucky film composers in their own right.

[Henry B 50]

Exactly.

[Maglorfin 196]

Many "graduates" of Media Ventures have gone on to become successful film composers in their own right.

Can you name some more besides Klaus Badelt, who's probably the best example?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

John Powell and Harry Gregson-Williams.

[David Coscina 3]

Mark articulated best what is wrong with MV or RC. It's an assembly line approach to a craft which traditionally has bore great individuality of style and sound. If Zimmer had just been the only guy to sound the way he does, than he would get less hassle but he is seen by a few (myself included) as the devil for having a significant hand in the dumming down of musicality in scores over the past 15 years.

Once Williams is no longer scoring films (we've already seen a huge decline in his output since he's getting on in age) so I'm desperately clinging to the hope that guys like Desplat, Shearmur, Giacchino, Beltrami, Marianelli, Shore, Yared and them thar fellas continue to hold up the tradition of orchestral film scoring. Or should I say GOOD orchestral film scoring.

[John Crichton 4]

*sigh* Here we go again.

I can't put it better than Mark either.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

John Powell and Harry Gregson-Williams.

These two have risen past their MV training. But yes, Mark O. is right on.

[Morlock 11]

I happen to be in an awkward position....I hate what MV does, but I love Zimmer. I think that the wall of sound approach is not nearly as destructive as the group effort. For every 15 MV composers, there is perhaps one who has shown real personality. And even with that 1-in-15...one can never be sure how much is his.

In short, I feel the music is less of a problem than others do, but the process is in many ways an anti-thesis to the concept of film scoring.

[Quintus 5,399]

Media Ventures is a group of talented musicians who wish to earn a buck. Sadly and probably unluckily for them they follow in the footsteps of JW and JG. Therefore they are fu*ked in the eyes of the traditionalists and for good reason - they mostly sound like orchestral pop composers. Not a good thing in the world of film scoring; from an enthusiast's point of view.

Hans Zimmer is ironically perhaps the one exception - he is actually very good.

[Jeshopk 8]

Jablonsky is another notably unnotable. I just hope that horrible sound sounds dated to producers soon, and that it's no longer desired. And hopefully composing teams will go with it.

[Hitch 57]

This meeting...is closed.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Never stops does it.

[Hitch 57]

I'd rather watch Tippi bathing naked in my jacuzzi.

[Maglorfin 196]

John Powell and Harry Gregson-Williams.

These two have risen past their MV training.

I agree. Let's hope some more "MV boys" follow in their footsteps.

[Morlock 11]

But, with them, MV did fullfill it's grandest purpose, of giving young composers a start.

[indy4 155]

Composer like HGW and JW are graduated, but is there a way to know which scores of theirs were MVed and which were original? Or can we assume that they helped on any score that says "Music by Hans Zimmer" and they did it by themselves on any score that says "Music by John Powell?"

[Red 75]

But, with them, MV did fullfill it's grandest purpose, of giving young composers a start.

Of whom only two are any good.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Idiots!

Hans Zimmer composes ALL of his music. Yes, every single note, unless it specifically says in the liner notes "Track whatever composed by whoever."

About 99% of the people here cannot grasp this rather simple concept. He hands HIS music down to these people, who work on programming, editing, ambient sound, etc. Everything is composed entirely by him!

They use synthesizers for the actual sound of synthesizers. Hans Zimmer uses orchestras on all his scores. Watch one of his interviews sometime, you can clearly see there. Yes, he does not conduct, so he hands the sheet music over to his buddy Harry or Bruce and they conduct for him.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I don't pretend to be informed as some are around here, but I don't think most of what you said there is true.

I won't say anything else on the subject, other than there are some seriously prejudiced music fans here.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

What I said is true. And in order for you to accuse me as pretending to be informed and for you to say my information is false makes you seem as you are pretending to be informed.

Every composer has a mentor. That is how they start out. Howard Shore has a guy that worked on Lord Of The Rings, you think he composed that score 100% on his own?

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Sorry - let me clarify - I wasn't accusing you of 'pretending to be informed'. What I meant was that many around here are informed about various composers, and I'm not one of them. My statement was therefore just based on what I've heard, and what I've heard about Zimmer is that he uses ghostwriters all the time.

That's the first I've heard about Shore having someone help him to write the score... I do indeed believe he composed it 100% - but I'm willing to be shown otherwise if you have something to base it on.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Jeff Grace was one of many to help Shore on LOTR.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Where did you hear/read that?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Here is an interview with Jeff Grace about his career: http://www.kqek.com/exclusives/Exclusives_Grace_1.htm

It's even listed on his IMDb. He was a part of the additional music crew for Fellowship Of The Ring and worked as a music editor for the rest of trilogy.

[Delorean90 42]

No...that's not true! That's impossible!!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[King Mark 3,631]

No...that's not true! That's impossible!!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahaha!

And William Ross composed For Frodo and The Breaking of the Fellowship

[Jeshopk 8]

What I said is true. And in order for you to accuse me as pretending to be informed and for you to say my information is false makes you seem as you are pretending to be informed.

Every composer has a mentor. That is how they start out. Howard Shore has a guy that worked on Lord Of The Rings, you think he composed that score 100% on his own?

I don't believe that whoever you're talking about shared composing responsibilities. Maybe polishng mockups for approval or something. There are many ways to work with a composer without ghostwriting. If I ever do a Hollywood film, I will surely have someone check my notation, and perhaps polish mockups, but that is not sharing compositional duties.

[hagman1983 0]

I've come to the conclusion that surfing here is that that hard-core JW-fan(atics) can't grasp the modern ways of doing scores, and modern composers (take Jablonsky's Transformers, altough I rate it very low) are PROFITABLE, and work in this day of movie making. Soon the old timers will be gone and all we will have are post-post-modern scores, just deal with it people. No mather how long you grab a hold of JW and who ever is still around and get contracted to do scores the old way, they will be gone within the coming decade (or two, or maybe even less, they aren't getting younger) and you will have your hate objects doing music.

Personally, when JW kicks it and Spielberg picks a new composer, I don't really care if it will be Zimmer (Spielberg loved his Crimson Tide, but his opinion may have changed the past 15 years, and Spielberg is a grown man and is allowed to pick whom ever he suits), I just hope it's one of the modern ones that don't do JW style music but Zimmer-ish or whatever just to piss off you people. I'll be grinning when I read on this board when everyone just freaks out when Spielbergs then-newest film is released with a non-JW score. I'll love it when that happens, and can't wait until JW kicks it and the Berg gets a new composer. Altough, I don't wish death on JW, I don't know the dude, but the aftermath will indeed be interesting around this board.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What I said is true. And in order for you to accuse me as pretending to be informed and for you to say my information is false makes you seem as you are pretending to be informed.

Every composer has a mentor. That is how they start out. Howard Shore has a guy that worked on Lord Of The Rings, you think he composed that score 100% on his own?

I don't believe that whoever you're talking about shared composing responsibilities. Maybe polishng mockups for approval or something. There are many ways to work with a composer without ghostwriting. If I ever do a Hollywood film, I will surely have someone check my notation, and perhaps polish mockups, but that is not sharing compositional duties.

Sounds reasonable. Everyone needs a proofreader.

[John Crichton 4]

I've come to the conclusion that surfing here is that that hard-core JW-fan(atics) can't grasp the modern ways of doing scores, and modern composers (take Jablonsky's Transformers, altough I rate it very low) are PROFITABLE, and work in this day of movie making.

I think we do, and that's not the point. The point is the scores suck.

[Magnus 0]

I've come to the conclusion that surfing here is that that hard-core JW-fan(atics) can't grasp the modern ways of doing scores, and modern composers (take Jablonsky's Transformers, altough I rate it very low) are PROFITABLE, and work in this day of movie making. Soon the old timers will be gone and all we will have are post-post-modern scores, just deal with it people. No mather how long you grab a hold of JW and who ever is still around and get contracted to do scores the old way, they will be gone within the coming decade (or two, or maybe even less, they aren't getting younger) and you will have your hate objects doing music.

Personally, when JW kicks it and Spielberg picks a new composer, I don't really care if it will be Zimmer (Spielberg loved his Crimson Tide, but his opinion may have changed the past 15 years, and Spielberg is a grown man and is allowed to pick whom ever he suits), I just hope it's one of the modern ones that don't do JW style music but Zimmer-ish or whatever just to piss off you people. I'll be grinning when I read on this board when everyone just freaks out when Spielbergs then-newest film is released with a non-JW score. I'll love it when that happens, and can't wait until JW kicks it and the Berg gets a new composer. Altough, I don't wish death on JW, I don't know the dude, but the aftermath will indeed be interesting around this board.

Tragiskt att läsa från en svensk....

Nevertheless, I don't believe that the Zimmer type score will forever dominate the movie world and maybe the directors with a tad more musical ear will hopefully turn their heads to Giacchino and the composers with a good grasp of the craft. Zimmer, in my opinion, lacks too much in harmonising and orchestration to ever sound even remotely interesting to me... but I guess we'll see what the future holds for us.

[King Mark 3,631]

Personally, when JW kicks it and Spielberg picks a new composer, I don't really care if it will be Zimmer (Spielberg loved his Crimson Tide, but his opinion may have changed the past 15 years, and Spielberg is a grown man and is allowed to pick whom ever he suits), I just hope it's one of the modern ones that don't do JW style music but Zimmer-ish or whatever just to piss off you people. I'll be grinning when I read on this board when everyone just freaks out when Spielbergs then-newest film is released with a non-JW score. I'll love it when that happens, and can't wait until JW kicks it and the Berg gets a new composer. Altough, I don't wish death on JW, I don't know the dude, but the aftermath will indeed be interesting around this board.

troll

[Taikomochi 1,136]

They're one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, along with HSM 1 and 2.... the fourth one comes next year with the theatrical release of HSM 3.

And then we're F***ed

He tells no lies! If only my assassination attempt on Zac Efron was a success! The fools!

[David Coscina 3]

Personally, when JW kicks it and Spielberg picks a new composer, I don't really care if it will be Zimmer (Spielberg loved his Crimson Tide, but his opinion may have changed the past 15 years, and Spielberg is a grown man and is allowed to pick whom ever he suits), I just hope it's one of the modern ones that don't do JW style music but Zimmer-ish or whatever just to piss off you people. I'll be grinning when I read on this board when everyone just freaks out when Spielbergs then-newest film is released with a non-JW score. I'll love it when that happens, and can't wait until JW kicks it and the Berg gets a new composer. Altough, I don't wish death on JW, I don't know the dude, but the aftermath will indeed be interesting around this board.

troll

I agree. There is nothing in this post that asks forum members to respond to. It's merely gauged at inciting us.

And to add to it, it's intellectually bankrupt in its conception. Fact is, the way John Williams scores films is steeped in a tradition that spans several hundreds of years and no amount of funk, disco, synth pop, or this Zimmer garbage will ever erase the foundations and principles which has been carried through for this long. If anyone is deluded, it is the people who laud Zimmer as the second coming of film scoring. He's not bad but he's not great by any means.

And Zimmer DOES write all of his music- of course "writing" means plunking away on his keyboard to a sequencer metronome and handing off the printed mess to millions of orchestrators who do their very best to interpret his MIDI slop.

how do I know this? Because Zimmer as much as admits this in the plethora of tech-related interviews I've read in KEYBOARD magazine. John Williams on the other hand does everything himself. For pete's sake, he even cooks his own breakfast and does his own taxes! I bet Zimmer goes to McDonalds a lot (hmmm, I see a similarity in production aesthetic and idelology!).

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Zimmers biggest problem is that he hasn't developed his music in the way he went from Black Rain to Crimson Tide.

If you listen to Driving Miss Daisy, Beyond Rangoon vs. Crimson Tide vs. Prince of Egypt, you hear three very distinct sounds.

In 2000+ he hasn't really given us a different score, except for the Da Vinci Code.

That is his crime. Anything else is your musical taste, elitism, or compensation for insecurity about John Williams dwindling output of slightly above average works.

Media ventures is a different story, a seperate and crappy entity from Zimmer.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

What I said is true. And in order for you to accuse me as pretending to be informed and for you to say my information is false makes you seem as you are pretending to be informed.

Every composer has a mentor. That is how they start out. Howard Shore has a guy that worked on Lord Of The Rings, you think he composed that score 100% on his own?

I don't believe that whoever you're talking about shared composing responsibilities. Maybe polishng mockups for approval or something. There are many ways to work with a composer without ghostwriting. If I ever do a Hollywood film, I will surely have someone check my notation, and perhaps polish mockups, but that is not sharing compositional duties.

Jeff Grace was a part of the ADDITIONAL MUSIC CREW for Fellowship. Since everyone is so uptight and saying additional music composers on HZ scores mean they actually compose something, same goes for this. Since it's a crew, there was more than just Jeff Grace. Every composer has someone to mentor and teach. It's a part of the modern process of film scoring. You take someone in, let them work a little with you so they gain experience and then send them off on their own.

Harry Gregson-Williams has Steve Barton. I know Klaus Badelt has his own guy now. Everyone does it. Accept it, and move on.

Hans Zimmer is probably a modern semi-genius. His work: Driving Miss Daisy, As Good As It Gets, The Holiday, The Simpsons Movie, The Da Vinci Code. That is the real Zimmer. You all seem to forget that directors and producers (i.e. Bay and Bruckheimer) have input on the scores of their films. Those two love the generic Zimmer sound and endorse it. Don't blame Hansy.

[David Coscina 3]

Hans Zimmer is probably a modern semi-genius. His work: Driving Miss Daisy, As Good As It Gets, The Holiday, The Simpsons Movie, The Da Vinci Code. That is the real Zimmer. You all seem to forget that directors and producers (i.e. Bay and Bruckheimer) have input on the scores of their films. Those two love the generic Zimmer sound and endorse it. Don't blame Hansy.

I would only ascribe the "genius" term to someone with exemplary skills at something. Williams would be a good candidate. Aside from him, for film scoring I would have to go back to Herrmann. There have been some outstanding craftsmen no doubt. But genius garners a whole different set of requirements.

Zimmer to me will never be a genius. Never. He has not exhibited in his 15 odd years as a composer the ability to fully understand the laguage of music and thus be able to fully exploit all of its resourses when applied to the film score medium. We seem to overlook the fact that while film music does have to serve a narrative, it should stand up as music too since it's communicating in the syntax of that system. But it seems to be an intellectual cop-out to ascribe a composer's musical shortcomings to the old truism "as long as it serves the film, it could be 20 tied whole notes". Well, that's not music. That's a monotonous pitch that my refrigerator makes when its compressor is on. Is my fridge a brilliant composer if someone decided to film a movie in my kitchen using ambient sounds with a boom mic?

[indy4 155]

For all Zimmer haters, you should give The Holiday a listen, it is not the "loud annoying noise" you guys constantly credit to Zimmer.

And while there are parts of MV I'm not too happy about (eg the Zimmer clones), I am happy with it overall. If it weren't for MV, we wouldn't have scores like Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas, The Shrek Trilogy, The Bourne Trilogy, The Chronicles of Narnia, the first Pirates of the Caribbean, and more.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

And while there are parts of MV I'm not too happy about (eg the Zimmer clones), I am happy with it overall. If it weren't for MV, we wouldn't have scores like Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas, The Shrek Trilogy, The Bourne Trilogy, The Chronicles of Narnia, the first Pirates of the Caribbean, and more.

A good list, though I don't think anybody is jumping for joy for the first POTC score

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What a boring list of scores.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Sinbad especially is anything but boring.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Harry Gregson-Williams.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I think Sinbad and Narnia are exciting, melodic scores (although HGW is guilty of the power anthem for narnia). The Shrek scores are also kinda nice.

But I have to agree, that's a rather boring list, and I don't understand what people see in the first two Pirates scores - the first one doesn't sound like a single real instrument was used.

All except for The Holiday. A vibrant, feel-good score which intelligently incorporates Morricone's Once Upon...America theme. Like Koray, I urge every single Zimmer hater here to just give the score a listen.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm not a Zimmer hater since I like Hannibal. I just think his general outlet of music is boring. It's usually nothing that I would be interested in buying or listening to. The same goes for his clones too.

[fommes 153]

About 99% of the people here cannot grasp this rather simple concept. He hands HIS music down to these people, who work on programming, editing, ambient sound, etc. Everything is composed entirely by him!

There's no denying what Mark touched upon, namely the problematic industrialization of film music by Zimmer and co. But your defense of Zimmer is somewhat lacking, in that it's actually a downright trashing of the Zimmer scores in its confusion between process and product.

Let me put it this way: you mean Zimmer composed every note of those aesthetically and musically atrocious scores himself?

We were being kind here, we thought that much of the garbage came from his henchmen, but hey, if you're informed