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Singer talks Superman: Man of Steel


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The fact that Williams didn't score Superman Returns didn't make it a poor movie.

The fact that it was a poor movie made it a poor movie.

I think everyone here pretty much nailed it already but let's go ahead and bring it down to the specifics. So Bryan Singer, you want to make a Superman movie? Okay, I can't wait to see the action! What's that? You don't want to have a lot of action? Alright Singer, that's ballsy, but you better make it emotionally engaging. What's that? Our two leads are about as engaging as a rock? Alright then. I dunno Singer, this sounds like . . . what's that? Oh, you've hired "top men" to find out the exact trajectory that a wing from an airplane would be ripped off, if ripped off by a man of Krypton? . . . I guess that's important . . .

We could go on and on. To be fair, there's actually more people I speak to in person that like it, than don't (or perhaps they're just in denial, and confide in online message boards?). I've enjoyed the bulk of Singer's films and I really do think he has what it takes to make a "Great" movie. There were a lot of things he got right with SR (not giving Supes any powers he doesn't have, for one). I also have no problem with a comic book film that tries to inject a little more depth than your average one. But I think Singer missed the memo that comic book films, especially Superman, are supposed to be fun.

And it wasn't.

With all that said, I'll be first in line if a second Supes movie is made with Singer, because he promised Wrath of Kahn and I think he'll deliver.

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Oh joy, more Superman Returns (and Spider-Man) bashing, how unexpected. :rolleyes:

I for one really liked Superman Returns (as do my parents) and still do to this day. I also like all three Spider-Man films. Grant Spider-Man 3 has taken quite a bit of viewings to grow on me but it has grown on me.

I just wish you all would quit bashing Superman Returns... it's almost as bad as Joe bashing the score for AOTC all the time (no offense Joe).

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Gotta say that after giving some listens to Ottman's complete score, I find it a pretty bland effort. I removed all but 15 tracks. I may be biased because I generally find Ottman to be a somewhat uninspired composer, but I hope he comes up with something better for Man of Steel.

I still maintain that I find the movie enjoyable, although now that I come to think of it... I can't recall any plot lines apart from beat the bad guy.

I've been cutting down a lot of bootlegs/long albums in the last few days, and some of which I have found to be mostly disposable are Van Helsing, Kingdom of Heaven and Night at the Museum. A lot of Powell's Bourne music also seemed to be just endless percussion and synth loops.

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I thought Ottman did a fine job on Superman Returns. It's sad to see so many of you crap on it like you normally would while taking a turd. Then of course most of you always lash out at those who do like the score (and movie).

No doubt if Singer does make The Man Of Steel Ottman will be back for it which will be okay with me.

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I thought Ottman did a fine job on Superman Returns. It's sad to see so many of you crap on it like you normally would while taking a turd. Then of course most of you always lash out at those who do like the score (and movie).

No doubt if Singer does make The Man Of Steel Ottman will be back for it which will be okay with me.

I have no idea what that meant . . . but it was hilarious.

I actually don't mind the score for SR. I mean, it was a damned if you do scenario to begin with. No matter what composer took that job, it probably wouldn't rank with Williams' masterpiece. In the end it ended up being a superior Ottman effort (at least compared to X-Men 2 and Fantastic Four . . . but let's face it, anything is better than the X-Men theme he concocted).

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I honestly don't want to sound like a broken record, Vosk, but I "crap on it in a turdly fashion" simply because I do not think it is good. Listening to these other Superman scores lately has only lessened my opinion of it, because at least Thorne and (especially) Courage really knew how to handle Williams' material. I'm listening to "Fresh Air" from IV right now... this is a (for lack of a better word) fresh take on the Love Theme. Now I realize SR didn't, nor should it have, utilized as much adaptation as parts of the other scores did. But unlike the other composers, Ottman didn't trust the material. We all read what he had to say about the Love Theme, and unfortunately I can hear that attitude in the music.

I'm not saying the whole thing is just horrible. Most of it is decent enough, and there are even a few parts that are pretty good that I quite liked. It just wasn't great, and I wanted a great Superman score. I would have loved something from Williams, or perhaps Giacchino, or Powell. But Ottman was the just the default composer; he wasn't hand-picked on his own merits—but aside from Williams, I can't reasonably imagine Singer choosing anyone besides his friend. And I'm not attacking Ottman personally, because he seems (from interviews) like a really nice guy. I like some of his other stuff. I just think he made some poor creative decisions with SR, and it's just not a score I find myself wanting to listen to, because the bad just outweighs the good for me. If other people like it, I am truly happy for them. I'm glad they are able to enjoy it. (I would just hope that no one would own Returns on disc without having some release of Williams' score as well.)

As for the film, the cape really says it all. While going from red to maroon personally wasn't a particularly big deal in and of itself, it perfectly represents to me (and to many others, it seems) one of the main problems with the film: instead of being bright and fun, it's all gone dark and gloomy. So the tone, the score, and throw in the worst casting choice since Christmas Jones, and you get a Superman film that just isn't as good as it could have, and should have, been. (In my opinion. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to better explain why I feel the way I do.)

(And sorry for being overly parenthetical. :lol:)

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What exactly is the point of your presence here?

It is not logical.....

To show my support for TMOS movie and cast. That's the point of my presence.

Well done, lonzoe. Now ALL people who liked Superman Returns and hope for a Singer-led Man of Steel smell like turd, thanks to your pointless opining and inability to clearly express yourself.

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As for the film, the cape really says it all. While going from red to maroon personally wasn't a particularly big deal in and of itself, it perfectly represents to me (and to many others, it seems) one of the main problems with the film: instead of being bright and fun, it's all gone dark and gloomy.
That is not just a problem with Superman Returns; it is a problem with loads of modern films and it's beginning to piss me off beyond recognition. It seems to me that ALL films these days feel the need to be dramatic, dark and gloomy and there must - not - be - a - sense - of - fun! Imagine the audience walking away from the film, feeling like they're more cheerful than going in? :blink:

That is the main thing I dislike about PotC 2 and 3 as well. I like those films, but they were far too dramatic for my liking.

Jack dies, Will becomes the next captain of the Flying Dutchman.

Do we WANT to see something like that? It seems that nowadays a sense of fun and enthusiasm is a no-go. And what's wrong with happy endings? I like them. Sure they're not entirely original, but if "original" means "bittersweet/dark/depressing", I'll take the unoriginal but happy ending any day of the week. Actually with so many movies opting for darkness and not-so-happy endings these days, I'm beginning to think a properly happy ending is becoming original again. It's about time we got one of those again for a change. :rolleyes:

While we're at the complaints about modern film-making anyway, here's another: I really dislike how many modern films pack a lot of really cool stuff into a film, but never give the audience the chanceto register that it is cool. Examples again are in PotC 3. The Singapore set is really beautiful, but you only get to see it at night, so most of the coolness never registers. Same thing again in Shipwreck Cove: The idea is great and it looks great, but rather than SHOWING it is great, they just rush over the entrance to continue with the story. It seems that virtually all modern action/adventure films are in a tremendous hurry to get the story told and everything that does not contribute to the story must be removed. I find this kind of thinking most unfortunate, because it's not just the story that makes a film great. Many films in the past had small things that were entirely unnescessary, but do add a certain charm.

Also it is interesting to note the change of pace in old films vs modern films. In old films, sometimes you have scenes lasting several minutes that do not contribute to the story really, such as the reveal of the Enterprise in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Of course most modern movie audiences will consider such scenes as boring and I can understand that, but we have now gone in the complete opposite direction, never allowing the audience to relax and just admire what is showing on the screen without being in a hurry to rush into the next scene. Nowadays it seems that every scene is only there for the purpose of bringing us to the next scene, rather than each scene being there to be enjoyed.

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And speaking of terrible story ideas... the kid.

They all get kids. Superman gets kids, Indiana Jones gets kids, Brendan Fraser's character in the Mummy gets kids. The waiting is for James Bond and Batman to get kids.

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I just wish you all would quit bashing Superman Returns... it's almost as bad as Joe bashing the score for AOTC all the time (no offense Joe).

I agree.

However, my opinion of the score has changed somewhat recently. I don't often tend to listen to complete scores as a score, more picking out the highlights that I remember (strange method I know), and I gave it a listen at work the other day, and changed to something else after about the first 15 minutes. It just wasn't exciting me and while there were some very good tracks, they were interspersed with music lacking in real emotion.

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The waiting is for James Bond to get kids.

Unlikely, considering what happened to him in Casino Royale. :rolleyes:

I doubt I'd even want to have sex again after going thru that.

Another thing people are forgetting is that Ottman is also the editor and he even admitted he put the temp track together for the film and stuck to it, if I'm not mistaken.

So he only has himself to blame. Like I said, he wrote a good Luthor theme, but as is the case with his other scores I get the feeling of "Been there, heard it before". And that's not counting Williams material.

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I laugh at how Ottman uses the ostinato while the action is actually happening. It needs to be used for the build-up, dammit! They spent millions of dollars on this?

Yes, he seemed to have no idea what it was supposed to be used for.

Also, wasn't it said that he never actually looked at Williams' written score, that he just copied everything by ear?

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Don't start on the love theme again.

I just wish you all would quit bashing Superman Returns... it's almost as bad as Joe bashing the score for AOTC all the time (no offense Joe).

Well the AotC bashing is justified. Bad movie (no, make that what the hell was Lucas on? movie), fairly uninspired score to my ears. Just plain bad.

Although it's nice to see that JW is still supreme god of the universe despite duds like that :rolleyes:

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Of course Singer has been quoted as saying this will be the "Wrath Of Khan" Superman film.

I wrote this over a year ago.....

Superman Returns director Bryan Singer has said, "I plan to get all 'Wrath of Khan'" with the Superman Returns sequel. How exactly will that be different from Superman Returns? Let's review that film...

* The opening titles look like the Genesis tape

* Luthor creates land which would "destroy such life, in favor of its new matrix"(just like Genesis)

* the name of the space plane is "Genesis"

* Superman has an illegitimate son he doesn't know about

* a villain previously imprisoned by the hero escapes and studies new technology and seeks revenge utilizing that technology

* the self-sacrifice and resurrection of the hero

This of course all comes after Singers X2 which featured a mind control drug similar to the Ceti Eel and another self sacrifice and resurrection. And the ending of X2 is clearly patterned on the ending of TWOK, down to the music and the voice over being supplied by a supposedly dead character.

I wonder if Luthors little island will be named "Botany Bay" in the new movie.

I hope that when Singer says, "I plan to get all 'Wrath of Khan'" it means Singer and company are all being replaced with a new creative team and the budget is slashed. Then the movie would really be going "all Wrath of Khan".

That would also mean Superman would get a new uniform!

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The first film was supervaliumman, so, I have nothing to hope with this one , or yes, I have to hope that this team will never touch again the Superman myth... They had someone writing a seven parts development films about the subject ( Alex Ford ) , they just reprise the title , pffffff...

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The waiting is for James Bond to get kids.

Unlikely, considering what happened to him in Casino Royale. :blink:

I doubt I'd even want to have sex again after going thru that.

:rolleyes:

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And speaking of terrible story ideas... the kid.

They all get kids. Superman gets kids, Indiana Jones gets kids, Brendan Fraser's character in the Mummy gets kids. The waiting is for James Bond and Batman to get kids.

None of those are as bad as Superman having a kid. It goes against several core aspects of the character, IMO.

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