The OFFICIAL Jerry Goldsmith Plagiarism Thread

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Due to the sucess and engaging quality of the John Williams one...it is only necessary to make one for one of the most unheard and notorious sinners!

Let's start with a really startling one:

Chain Reaction "Ice Chase" -> Air Force One "The Hijacking"

Though...there's way more for that one.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I recall hearing some similarities between the Raisuli theme from The Wind and the Lion and the Klingon theme from Star Trek. Am I imagining things?

Also Vacation's Over from The River Wild sometimes sounds like it's pretending to be Total Recall.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yes there is a similarity between The Klingon theme and the Raisuli theme.

Also Tora Tora Tora is similar to the Borg's theme from First Contact.

There is a section from a cue from The Challenge that makes an appearance in The Mummy.

See the Horner Thread for The US Marshall theme/motif that has been used by Goldsmith in several films.

Also a short horn arrangement that has been used by Goldsmith in a few films such as Executive Decision, Air Force One, The Edge and The River Wild.

A Busy Man from Star Trek V was used in FC, Insurrection and Nemesis. I think it's a personal theme for Picard.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

The mummy is basically a reworked 13th Warrior.

Goldsmith didnt care musch for the mummy so its comprenhensible he just reused material and got his money.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I didn't notice The Mummy and 13th Warrior being that similar. Sure they do share some simlarities, but there's a lot to enjoy in both; I don't think one is a carbon-copy of the other.

BTW: Is there something like a "Jerry Goldsmith danger motif"? There is the motif for the bear in The Edge which I think is pretty similar to motifs used in other instances of "danger" in other films. Not sure on any examples right now.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The mummy is basically a reworked 13th Warrior.

Goldsmith didnt care musch for the mummy so its comprenhensible he just reused material and got his money.

Apart from both featuring some Arabic music, which in both cases was appropriate to the subject matter, there really is not a lot that is similar.

One of the themes from The Mummy is taken from Goldsmith's Fireworks piece though, or vice-versa.

[Morlock 11]

I hear great great similarites between the victorious theme for Gizmo from Gremlins to the big action motif from The Mummy (minus the leading brass motif in the latter score). And a lot of the tense music from The Sum of All Fears sounds very much like Air Force One, just less unique (understandably so).

Also, the love theme from The Wind and The Lion always bore strong resemblance in my mind to the love theme from Spartacus.

In general, the concept of plagarism or self-plagarism is often a matter of taste, many people hear plagarism in some pieces that to everyone else sound rather far-fetched (Like Mr. Blumenkohl assertion that the HP theme is nothing but a rip off of Fantasia on Greensleeves). And, even when it is rather obvious -as in the Strauss/Superman love theme situation- the later piece often goes in such a different direction, or elaborates to such an extent, that it is a rather moot point, IMO.

On the other hand, because plagarism in film scores can (and I stress CAN, not necasserily) be such a non-issue (IMO), it makes Horner all the more infuriating. But that's another topic, that PLEASE GOD let's not get into (I'm sure one would be able to find several thousand threads on that subject).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

See the Horner Thread for The US Marshall theme/motif that has been used by Goldsmith in several films.

This is the one you keep referring too, right?

[fommes 153]

Goldsmith's a hack! His self-plagiarism is all over the place!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

The mummy is basically a reworked 13th Warrior.

Goldsmith didnt care musch for the mummy so its comprenhensible he just reused material and got his money.

Apart from both featuring some Arabic music, which in both cases was appropriate to the subject matter, there really is not a lot that is similar.

there is one main theme that is basically the same.

not just 'arab music' mood.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

A piano theme from Shostakovich's piano concerto (first one I think, I'm too lazy to check) shows up several times in Basic Instinct (and on piano, too).

The 4-note ostinato from Bruckner's Te Deum is prominently used in The Edge. Might be a coincidence, but since I always had the impression that Goldsmith had a strong Bruckner affinity, I file it under "intentional".

The main titles for First Contact and Air Force One sound like they could be each other's counterpoint.

Apparently, Ilia's Theme is hinted at in the Voyager main title (the B section), reportedly confirmed by Goldsmith when asked by a fan after a concert.

I'm convinced that he sneaked a motif from Gremlins 2 into Hollow Man as a musical joke.

[Ollie 1,059]

See the Horner Thread for The US Marshall theme/motif that has been used by Goldsmith in several films.

This is the one you keep referring too, right?

Yes.

Also Mulan's theme and First Contact share a slight similarity.

[King Mark 3,631]

All of his 90's output sounds the same

[Romão 2,274]

His Hollow Man Theme is taken from Prokofiev's Ivan the Terrible

[RomanticStrings 10]

How about Klaus Badelt's The Time Machine score? One theme is incredibly similar to The Edge. I still love both works, though!

~Conor

[Ollie 1,059]

King Solomon's Mines - Goldsmith's take on Wagner for Herbert Lom's character.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

There's a part of Rambo 2, that sounds exactly like the opening of Final Flight from Nemesis.

[Hitch 57]

Some parts of Alien sound identical to his earlier score to Freud. 'Nough said

[Pieter Boelen 740]

King Solomon's Mines - Goldsmith's take on Wagner for Herbert Lom's character.

I dare say that's pretty much intentional, especially considering that nazi guy likes to listen to Wagner throughout the movie.

BTW: Is there something like a "Jerry Goldsmith danger motif"? There is the motif for the bear in The Edge which I think is pretty similar to motifs used in other instances of "danger" in other films. Not sure on any examples right now.

^ Does anyone have an answer to that question?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think it's also in The Shadow, but I could be mistaken.

[ChuckM 1]

Air Force One and the rejected Timeline score are almost identical in parts.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, not really.

They share a 3 note motif that runs through several of Goldsmith's scores of the last decade of his life or so, and which formed the basis of the AFO theme.

AFO feels rather different then Timeline though.

There's a part of Rambo 2, that sounds exactly like the opening of Final Flight from Nemesis.

Nice fine, I assume you mean part of Bowed Down?

The opening of Final Flight always sounded very 80's Goldsmith to me, though I never made the connection.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I think it's also in The Shadow, but I could be mistaken.

Ah, The Shadow. Quotes a theme from Waxman's Prince Valiant.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Nice fine, I assume you mean part of Bowed Down?

Ahha! Thanks, I kept thinking I remembered it from Rambo somewhere.

The opening of Final Flight always sounded very 80's Goldsmith to me, though I never made the connection.

Yeah....it was such a shame. The first time I heard it I was really excited! "He's gone back to the old days!" but then it cut out and went to something good/decent....but not quite 80s.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Prince Valiant knows what evil lurks in the heart of men?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Yes, but he channels that burden through his haircut.

[Hitch 57]

And his nose

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm looking for Nicky the Nose.