OT- Appreciating the music of Sergei Prokofiev

[David Coscina 3]

Ever since I discovered a recording of Alexander Nevsky in 1990 (Prokofiev Goes to the Movies) I have been enthralled with the music of Prokofiev. The more I hear his canon, the more I hear his influence in modern film scores. One area of his body of work that I avoided for years were his symphonies as professors kept insisting they were not very well written. I recently bought the Valery Gergiev Complete Symphonies and have really enjoyed listening to his 4th Symphony which has melodic material based on his Prodigal Son music. The 2nd movement is beautiful although I would add that the Gergiev collection has both original version and revised version of this symphony. I prefer the original as the revised sounds like he just pasted additional music into an already cohesive work. But that's me.

Being a fan of his Fiery Angel opera, I also love the 3rd Symphony although I prefer Muti's recording of it on the Philips label as Gergiev takes it a little too fast in places.

I hear a lot of Prokofiev in Williams' works too, not necessarily in the plagiarist sense but just the stylistic sense.

Any others who enjoy and respect this composer's works?

[Morlock 11]

I do. A musician friend of mine is in awe of Prokofiev, so I've listened to a lot of his stuff. While I'm not particularly in awe of Alexander Nevsky (I love the concert arrangement, but I did not like the film, and the score was underwhelming when I first heard it, something not helped by the absolutely terrible recording)......his piano works are mind boggling.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I do. A musician friend of mine is in awe of Prokofiev, so I've listened to a lot of his stuff. While I'm not particularly in awe of Alexander Nevsky (I love the concert arrangement, but I did not like the film, and the score was underwhelming when I first heard it, something not helped by the absolutely terrible recording)......his piano works are mind boggling.

I love his piano works, as well. I learned the 2nd mvt of his d minor sonata several years ago, and it was an absolute thrill to play.

[MSM 126]

He's my favorite classical composer. I own all of his symphonies and many ballets and concertos. He's like Stravinsky but more gifted.

[David Coscina 3]

He's my favorite classical composer. I own all of his symphonies and many ballets and concertos. He's like Stravinsky but more gifted.

I'm inclined to agree. Stravinsky was a great innovator but I think Prokofiev had a much better fluid sense of melody and harmony. He didn't re-invent the wheel like Stravinsky but he damn well perfected what was already there!

[MSM 126]

He's my favorite classical composer. I own all of his symphonies and many ballets and concertos. He's like Stravinsky but more gifted.

I'm inclined to agree. Stravinsky was a great innovator but I think Prokofiev had a much better fluid sense of melody and harmony. He didn't re-invent the wheel like Stravinsky but he damn well perfected what was already there!

My thought

[A24 4,331]

His first concerto for violin is a must! Probably my favorite violin concerto ever. Get the Gramophone Award winning Vengerov/Rostropovich CD. There you will also find Shostakovich's first violin concerto.

[Romão 2,274]

The re-recording of the complete Alexander Nevsky score is an absolute must have IMHO.

However, concerning his film work, his score for Ivan the Terrible is mind bogling. it's one of the very best scores ever written. Get the Gergiev re-recording as soon as you can.

Also, his 5th symphony is fantastic, but I'm not really familiar with the others.

[David Coscina 3]

The re-recording of the complete Alexander Nevsky score is an absolute must have IMHO.

However, concerning his film work, his score for Ivan the Terrible is mind bogling. it's one of the very best scores ever written. Get the Gergiev re-recording as soon as you can.

Also, his 5th symphony is fantastic, but I'm not really familiar with the others.

I am partial to Riccardo Muti's reading of Ivan the Terrible on the EMI label. Muti really understood the lyrical sense of Prokofiev but never whimped out on the balls that Sergei had in his more aggressive music sections. I find Dutoit completely awful at interpreting Prokofiev.

I will listen to the Gergiev recording though since he's an excellent Prokofiev conductor.

I am absolutely in love with the 2nd mvmt of his 4th Symphony at the moment. It's as beautiful as anything Rachmaninov wrote.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

His ballets are incredible. Romeo and Juliet has some of the finest ballet music ever written. Juliet's Death has a few measures that clearly provided the inspiration for the Enterprise destruction from Search for Spock. Well, the Russians clearly knew how to write for great dancers!

[QMM 4]

I'm only really familiar with his Nevsky work, which I enjoy very much. I need to pick up his other stuff.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

His ballets are incredible. Romeo and Juliet has some of the finest ballet music ever written. Juliet's Death has a few measures that clearly provided the inspiration for the Enterprise destruction from Search for Spock. Well, the Russians clearly knew how to write for great dancers!

It's not the only time Horner has used R&J.

I've seen the John Cranko staging of the ballet at the local opera twice - it's like a silent movie, with a brilliant score.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Favorite "classical" composer here as well. Along with that other "classical" composer Tschaikovsky.

Good orchestral music is an export of Russia.

[Maestro 147]

Wow, this is so timely, as I just recently heard Romeo and Juliet performed by the local symphony orchestra. I've been listening to it a ton since. I would agree that its influence in film music is strong, as it is extremely melodic and lyrical.

Good stuff!

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

I've played his 2nd Piano Concerto, a very underplayed work. It has one of most incredible cadenzas in the entire repoertoire. The 3rd has always been the more performed of the two but I think it pales in comparison to the mammoth 2nd. His piano writing in general is great, and very fun to play.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I think I'm only familiar with "Lt. Kije," which is great.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I've played his 2nd Piano Concerto, a very underplayed work. It has one of most incredible cadenzas in the entire repoertoire. The 3rd has always been the more performed of the two but I think it pales in comparison to the mammoth 2nd. His piano writing in general is great, and very fun to play.

The first is a lovely single-movement piece. Have you played that? It's only about 15 minutes long as I recall.

[John Takis 206]

I have lots to say about Prokofiev (whose representation in my collection is second only to Goldsmith and Williams), but for now I'll content myself by saying that everyone reading this should make it a priority to seek out the ballet "The Stone Flower", preferably the version conducted by Jurowski with the Radio-Philharmonie Hannover des NDR. (Avoid the newer, BBC Philharmonic recording.) I've seen the set for as little as $15 (at Schuler's Books & Music), but it's worth much more than that. A massive work of staggering greatness, and far too underappreciated, IMHO.

Prokofiev's Piano Sonata No. 1 is a gem. Of his Piano Concerti, my favorite is the 4th.

[Neimoidian 14]

His music is terrific. He is one of my favourite classical composer composers even though I only know three of his works ("Romeo & Juliette", "1st Symphony" and his "Lt. Kije" score). I must learn more of his, especially "Alexander Nevsky", which I haven't heard so far.

Given the Russians have brought forth so many fantastic composers, I am really curious what is the state of Russian film music thesedays.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

As I recall the scores to Night Watch and Day Watch were techno driven. Sad.

[Maglorfin 196]

Prokofiev's great, definitely one of the best. His film music, Romeo and Juliet, Peter and the Wolf, symphonies and piano concertos are my favourites.

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

I've played his 2nd Piano Concerto, a very underplayed work. It has one of most incredible cadenzas in the entire repoertoire. The 3rd has always been the more performed of the two but I think it pales in comparison to the mammoth 2nd. His piano writing in general is great, and very fun to play.

The first is a lovely single-movement piece. Have you played that? It's only about 15 minutes long as I recall.

I've never played that one. I've only played the 2nd, and parts of the 3rd. As for the 4th, I don't bother with left hand concertos. I don't feel any pianist with two hands should be playing 1-hand pieces. :-)

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

For what it's worth, Dance of the Knights from R&J is currently being introduced to a new wave of listeners as the Intro music on the new Muse live CD/DVD (right before the Williams quote ).

[David Coscina 3]

I've played his 2nd Piano Concerto, a very underplayed work. It has one of most incredible cadenzas in the entire repoertoire. The 3rd has always been the more performed of the two but I think it pales in comparison to the mammoth 2nd. His piano writing in general is great, and very fun to play.

The first is a lovely single-movement piece. Have you played that? It's only about 15 minutes long as I recall.

I've never played that one. I've only played the 2nd, and parts of the 3rd. As for the 4th, I don't bother with left hand concertos. I don't feel any pianist with two hands should be playing 1-hand pieces. :-)

Dude if you can play that final movement of the 2nd Piano Concerto than you've got MONSTER chops. Doesn't Sergei use successive 11ths or something ridiculous like that. He must have had monster hands. I can play the slower Russian folk melody type part but when things get going, well, I'm not a trained pianist.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I love Sergei Prokofiev! It's definitely one of my favourite classical composers. I recommend everyone who loves John Williams' music to check Prokofiev's ballet scores, the piano and violin concertas and his symphonies. Just try to listen to the great "Schytian Suite".

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

I've played his 2nd Piano Concerto, a very underplayed work. It has one of most incredible cadenzas in the entire repoertoire. The 3rd has always been the more performed of the two but I think it pales in comparison to the mammoth 2nd. His piano writing in general is great, and very fun to play.

The first is a lovely single-movement piece. Have you played that? It's only about 15 minutes long as I recall.

I've never played that one. I've only played the 2nd, and parts of the 3rd. As for the 4th, I don't bother with left hand concertos. I don't feel any pianist with two hands should be playing 1-hand pieces. :-)

Dude if you can play that final movement of the 2nd Piano Concerto than you've got MONSTER chops. Doesn't Sergei use successive 11ths or something ridiculous like that. He must have had monster hands. I can play the slower Russian folk melody type part but when things get going, well, I'm not a trained pianist.

I don't remember any successive 11ths, but it's been about ten years since I played it. I do remember the Russian folk song, one of the few truly romantic moments in Prokofiev's piano music. The hardest movement for me was the 2nd movement which is actually considered the easiest movement. Fast, unison, parallel motion passages have always been my Achilles' heel.

[Romão 2,274]

I am partial to Riccardo Muti's reading of Ivan the Terrible on the EMI label. Muti really understood the lyrical sense of Prokofiev but never whimped out on the balls that Sergei had in his more aggressive music sections. I find Dutoit completely awful at interpreting Prokofiev.

This one?

[TownerFan 4,983]

Here's a very Williams-esque excerpt from the Scythian Suite.

Go Sergej!

[Romão 2,274]

I love the Scythian Suite

[Ollie 1,059]

For the casual listener you'll sure look at James Horner in a different light.

[Goldsmithfan 6]

Strange that someone should post a Prokofiev thread when I intended to do the exact same thing. I really enjoy his material for Alexander Nevsky but the local library has little more. I grabbed Romeo & Juliet, but it doesn't have the same power. Anyone got a reccomendation?

[Romão 2,274]

If you liked Alexander Nevsky, you're gonna love Ivan The Terrible

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

R&J has lots of power!

[Romão 2,274]

Indeed it does. And you only have to listen as far as the quarrel scenes in Act 1

[Score 770]

Prokofiev is one of the very best ones in last century! One of the greatest Russian masters and one of the best orchestrators in music history. The film scores to Alexander Nevskij and to Ivan the Terrible are outstanding, as are his ballets and his operas. I think he delivered his best in "descriptive" works, where he had to "illustrate" something, although the two violin concertos and the piano concertos are great too. I played the first piano concerto some years ago for an examination.

I'm not very fond of the symphonies that I have heard, but maybe I only need to listen again.

In my opinion, his masterpiece is Romeo and Juliet, an incredible work that never gets boring during the whole 2h20m of his duration. Wonderful melodies in a great quantity, surprising harmonies and colourful orchestrations from the beginning to the end. And there are very difficult-to-play passages (the strings in the quarrel scene are amazingly fast), interesting combinations of chords (the cue "Prince gives his order" is one of the most dissonant cues ever written, I think) and timbers (like in "Morning Serenade"). It is also full of very film-music-like passages, quotations, leitmotives...

I had the chance to see that live some years ago, it was an experience that I will not forget. Too bad the full conductor score to the whole ballet is not available.

Piano pieces are great too - the Sonatas and the hundreds of smaller cues. In chamber music, I discovered recently the "Ouverture on Hebrew Themes", that features a Schindler's List-like clarinet, a string ensemble and a piano. Very well written.

I think that, among the classical composers, he is the one that most resembles John Williams. Perhaps it is appropriate to say that we like Williams because HE likes Prokofiev. Surely Williams learnt a lot from him, at least in terms of harmony and orchestration. And, as was pointed out some time ago, I agree that, in the days when he wrote the Jaws theme, he was probably listening intensively to the second movement of the Scythian Suite...

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

in the days when he wrote the Jaws theme, he was probably listening intensively to the second movement of the Scythian Suite...

Or Peter and the Wolf.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or Rite Of Spring.

[Hitch 57]

The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Or Rite Of Spring.

Likely, since he wrote Star Wars just a few years later.

[AI 0]

Prokofiev is great, absolutely.

I have no doubt that Williams would agree.

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

in the days when he wrote the Jaws theme, he was probably listening intensively to the second movement of the Scythian Suite...

Or Peter and the Wolf.

I remember this thread from a year ago. The audio link in the 3rd post still works.

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12970&hl=

[Hitch 57]

The wolf probably wouldn't.

[David Coscina 3]

I just purchased a bunch of Neemi Jarvi Prokofiev Chandos discs and it's more and more apparent that Williams' music tendencies follow Sergei's in his use of non harmonic passing notes, interesting resolutions, even some of his orchestration tendencies. Unlike Horner who has lifted Prokofiev's work, Williams was obviously effected by the style and interpolated the musicality but made it his own at the same time.

Prokofiev is one of my favorite composers. the Prodigal Son is a great work even moreso when heard in his 4th Symphony. As for Jarvi, he's interpretation is solid but I actually prefer Gergiev's conducting. Maybe it's the Russian thing but I have his complete symphonies by Gervgiev and the LSO and it's fabulous. Only Muti's 3rd Symphony and Ivan the Terrible Oratorio readings are better in my opinion.

[Williamsfan301 11]

I just purchased a bunch of Neemi Jarvi Prokofiev Chandos discs and it's more and more apparent that Williams' music tendencies follow Sergei's in his use of non harmonic passing notes, interesting resolutions, even some of his orchestration tendencies. Unlike Horner who has lifted Prokofiev's work, Williams was obviously effected by the style and interpolated the musicality but made it his own at the same time.

Absolutely. It's very evident in the score to A New Hope. And you're right, he copied the style and musicality very well.

[Hitch 57]

The LSO's complete recordings of Prokofiev symphonies under Gergiev is a must-have for any Prokofiev fan.

[David Coscina 3]

The LSO's complete recordings of Prokofiev symphonies under Gergiev is a must-have for any Prokofiev fan.

Did you catch the Horner rip-off of the Prodigal Son theme in the 4th Symphony? I remember hearing it and recalling Horner using it as a bridge to main themes in Willow or The Land Before Time. Now that I think about it, I think it's the latter.

The other weird thing about Gergiev is that he sings along sometimes which you can hear on his recordings. But I like the tempi he takes Prokofiev's music at so I am willing to forgive him. Yes, the LSO recordings are must have.

[aj_vader 534]

Hey there

would you recommend Prokofiev's music to me?

im just discovering true classical music now, tending to move away from film music, since its going all modern.

i love williams music (obviously)

wondering are there any paticular peices i should check out before going purchasing all the works of Prokofiev

[Romão 2,274]

I would say Alexander Nevsky and Ivan the Terrible, obviously. Also, the October Cantata, the 5th Symphony and the Scythian Suite.

[Hitch 57]

I love his 1st Symphony "Classical"

[aj_vader 534]

ok thanx, ill look them both up, going to the big HMV in manchester tomoz, will try and pick up a copy or 2