Quintus 5,399 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Have a look at the comments in this thread over at Filmtracks.com.Does anyone here know who actually orchestrated the thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 John Williams never orchestrates his own music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 More predictable sensationalism from steef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_JWFAN 11 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 John Williams never orchestrates his own music.Depends on what your definition of orchestrating is. He certainly didn't just hand Herb a piano piece and walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 Hey how are you getting on with your piano arrangement of The Raiders March? Or was the exact Indy cue never decided upon? Anyway I do hope you haven't forgotten about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_JWFAN 11 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Hey how are you getting on with your piano arrangement of The Raiders March? Or was the exact Indy cue never decided upon? Anyway I do hope you haven't forgotten about it!I was planning on something Indy related, but I haven't gotten to it. I've had some other projects come up, and that's taken away my free time. But I haven't forgotten about it and hope to get to it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 That's cool. I'm just an impatient sod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 John Williams never orchestrates his own music.Depends on what your definition of orchestrating is. He certainly didn't just hand Herb a piano piece and walk away.Herbert W. Spencer didn't worked on that one. I believe he stoped working around 1992 -- he passed away in 1994.On Jurassic Park Williams was assisted (and that's the key word here, assisted) by Alexander Courage and John Neufeld. I belive, though i can't be sure, that Conrad Pope also gave an hand on this one.And for the last time, Williams orchestrates the whole thing. Acording to Patrick Hollenbeck, who worked on Last Crusade, the work of an orchestrator working for Williams is to trasncribe Williams own hand writed score from his smaller paper to a larger one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Have a look at the comments in this thread over at Filmtracks.com.Does anyone here know who actually orchestrated the thing?We have had numerous threads on what Williams' orchestrators do. They do not have much artistical freedom, but work out what Williams accurately prescribes. Mostly they write out the JW handwritten 8 staves with instrument designations into full orchestral score with separate staves for all instruments.For JP 80% was done by Neufeld, 15% by Courage, 4% by Pope and 1% by Williams himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I don't think alot people truly understand what an orchestrator does (not including most of our fellow JWFan members). And if one had doubts as to how specific Williams is in his original sketches you need to watch the BBC doc on TESB. It was pretty clear that he is specific in what he wants.In some cases orchestrators can have input in the score and at other times they are merely copyists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 "Orchestrator" is just a synonym for "assistant," I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 I was indeed aware that Williams orchestrates his own stuff, with the credited orchestrator being, as already mentioned, a copyist.My question is specific to JP since the comments on filmtracks appear to know what they are talking about, therefore casting doubt in mind as to whether JP may have been an exception to the rule in regards to the role of orchestrator on that movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maglorfin 196 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Can exact orchestrating specifics for each JW soundtrack released so far be found anywhere on the web? I'd certainly be very interested to have that information, and I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one. Hell, it should've been printed in every soundtrack booklet (it is in some to be sure), since orchestrators also carry immense responsibility and play a very important role in every soundtrack's making.I was very grateful and happy when I saw that The Blue Box book also tells us exactly who orchestrated each individual cue for Superman The Movie. I wish we were told that more often, if not all the time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 I was very grateful and happy when I saw that The Blue Box book also tells us exactly who orchestrated each individual cue for Superman The Movie.Again, we are talking copyists here aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 In the Superman book it explains that the scoring for the film was spread out (scoring part of the film and coming back 2 -3 months later and finishing) and Williams had quite a busy travel schedule with other committments.I would imagine on a score that large you might need more than one person to help transcribe your sketches, especially with him scoring more than 2 films that year and his concert schedule. There really isn't much info in the Filmtracks thread and if you can find the interview with Conrad Pope he explains that even though he gets an orchestrator credit, there isn't much for him to do other than copy.I believe there was an interview with Thomas Newman who looked at some of Williams sketches from Jedi and had the same comment, you're mainly copying his rough sketches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacius 7 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Dunno man,I'm on the fence about this orchestrator/copyist business.If all they do is just copy then how come Williams' sound changed around the time when Herbert Spencer got ill and couldn't work on Williams' scores?Just wonderingI personally find the orchestrations bland nowadays-Excluding Harry Potter 1+2 (compared with the classic era). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I wouldn't necassarily say that the sound change had so much to do with orchestration rather than just a new style of composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 If all they do is just copy then how come Williams' sound changed around the time when Herbert Spencer got ill and couldn't work on Williams' scores?Just wonderingI personally find the orchestrations bland nowadays-Excluding Harry Potter 1+2 (compared with the classic era). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Dunno man,I'm on the fence about this orchestrator/copyist business.If all they do is just copy then how come Williams' sound changed around the time when Herbert Spencer got ill and couldn't work on Williams' scores?Just wonderingI personally find the orchestrations bland nowadays-Excluding Harry Potter 1+2 (compared with the classic era).Williams later sound can be heard as early as in SpaceCamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 John Williams never orchestrates his own music.Indeed, he never gives himself the orchestration credit (as Morricone, Shore, and Davis do). For Nixon, he specifically credits Neufeld in the liner notes, and as far as I know, no explanation has ever been given for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. 10 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I was very grateful and happy when I saw that The Blue Box book also tells us exactly who orchestrated each individual cue for Superman The Movie.Again, we are talking copyists here aren't we?A copyist is not the same as an orchestrator. A copyist makes sure all the individual parts get printed out for the orchestra on time etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes, I know the difference. I think you may have misunderstood me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Hoyt 13 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I don't think alot people truly understand what an orchestrator does (not including most of our fellow JWFan members). And if one had doubts as to how specific Williams is in his original sketches you need to watch the BBC doc on TESB. It was pretty clear that he is specific in what he wants.That documentary was excellent, its too bad it hasn't been released. I believe they should him working on "Mynock Cave," and it was amazing how his rough sketch on the piano was almost exactly the completed cue. It seemed like Spencer just was a copyist on that one. This documentary is a must see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,327 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 John Williams never orchestrates his own music. You mean he just hums the tune and someone else does all the work? OMG, I didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,676 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I don't think alot people truly understand what an orchestrator does (not including most of our fellow JWFan members). And if one had doubts as to how specific Williams is in his original sketches you need to watch the BBC doc on TESB. It was pretty clear that he is specific in what he wants.That documentary was excellent, its too bad it hasn't been released. I believe they should him working on "Mynock Cave," and it was amazing how his rough sketch on the piano was almost exactly the completed cue. It seemed like Spencer just was a copyist on that one. This documentary is a must see.Truly an amazing piece it is. (and Ben Burtt must be getting on now... I always imagined him nowadays about the age he is in this), clearly made by someone who cares about music.PS - I have no idea where I got it from, but I appear to have it, so do the usual if anyone wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 John Williams never orchestrates his own music. You mean he just hums the tune and someone else does all the work? OMG, I didn't know that.Just like that hack Danny Elfman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I would also recommend watching some of the docs on Elfman. The man knows his music and how to work with an orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes, I know the difference. I think you may have misunderstood me.I think you have the right idea of what the orchestrators do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Of course I do. I have the right idea about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes, of course you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 I was being sarcastic when I called Danny Elfman a hack. It was a direct reference to the urban myth that the man can't read music.Apparently there continues to be a few members here who still don't realise that I rarely type anything with a serious mind when I contribute to this ever so dry corner of the interweb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 If I thought you were serious I would have told you to eff off. I think most of us know that you are rarely serious, I can go back and add a winky to my post.However there are those that would probably attack Elfman so why not add a bit of knowledge to their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Noted! Oh and don't feel the need to add a smilie, I'm not much of a fan of them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Smilies are for those who need to be explained everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Smilies are for those who need to be explained everythingand non-Germanic language speaking members... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 And for the last time, Williams orchestrates the whole thing. Acording to Patrick Hollenbeck, who worked on Last Crusade, the work of an orchestrator working for Williams is to trasncribe Williams own hand writed score from his smaller paper to a larger one. Thomas Newman has said the same thing about Williams (His uncle Lionel brought him to orchestrate some of RoTJ...Newman said he had absolutely nothing to do aside from copying). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 And for the last time, Williams orchestrates the whole thing. Acording to Patrick Hollenbeck, who worked on Last Crusade, the work of an orchestrator working for Williams is to trasncribe Williams own hand writed score from his smaller paper to a larger one. Thomas Newman has said the same thing about Williams (His uncle Lionel brought him to orchestrate some of RoTJ...Newman said he had absolutely nothing to do aside from copying).What really happens: Williams' music inspires to the point that it elicits from the orchestrator an outpouring of creativity so spontaneous and so effortless that he can scarcely remember doing any work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Or he threatens to have their families killed. Either way works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Like Uri Geller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes. He's been exposed as a fraud several times over the past 30 years, yet he still gets people to pay him for his tricks. I'd say the man knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Or he threatens to have their families killed. Either way works.True. If Williams ever tires of telling the "dead composers for Schindler's List" anecdote, I'd love for him to share more about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 I think Williams' fond retelling of his Schindler's anecdote is actually just a evidence of early stages Alzheimer's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes. He's been exposed as a fraud several times over the past 30 years, yet he still gets people to pay him for his tricks. I'd say the man knows what he's doing.Yeah, John Williams is a real fraud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes. He's been exposed as a fraud several times over the past 30 years, yet he still gets people to pay him for his tricks. I'd say the man knows what he's doing.Yeah, John Williams is a real fraud!Yeah, not just any kind of fraud -- the real deal, the genuine article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes. He's been exposed as a fraud several times over the past 30 years, yet he still gets people to pay him for his tricks. I'd say the man knows what he's doing.Yeah, John Williams is a real fraud!What an odd post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes. He's been exposed as a fraud several times over the past 30 years, yet he still gets people to pay him for his tricks. I'd say the man knows what he's doing.Yeah, John Williams is a real fraud!What an odd post.Can't a man share his honest opinion without it being dismissed as "odd"? Sheesh, the people on this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 honestly i think the greatest moment of my life no doubt should have been helping JW orchestrate a star wars movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes. He's been exposed as a fraud several times over the past 30 years, yet he still gets people to pay him for his tricks. I'd say the man knows what he's doing.Yeah, John Williams is a real fraud!What an odd post.Can't a man share his honest opinion without it being dismissed as "odd"? Sheesh, the people on this board...The internet is no place for opinion. We deal in facts, hard facts. Heaven forbid the internet should become a place where even the least certified of people can express their opinions. The entire medium would lose it's respectability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes. He's been exposed as a fraud several times over the past 30 years, yet he still gets people to pay him for his tricks. I'd say the man knows what he's doing.Yeah, John Williams is a real fraud!What an odd post.Can't a man share his honest opinion without it being dismissed as "odd"? Sheesh, the people on this board...The internet is no place for opinion. We deal in facts, hard facts. Heaven forbid the internet should become a place where even the least certified of people can express their opinions. The entire medium would lose it's respectability.Quite possibly the quote of the year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 1, 2008 Author Share Posted April 1, 2008 Let's not get carried away here Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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