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Hans Zimmer Appreciation Thread


Koray Savas

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1 hour ago, HunterTech said:

Yeah, I was gonna make a comment yesterday about how I'm likely not the first to ask if this is an actual appreciation thread, or if its more of an "occasional routine dumping ground" thread. :P

 

I've grown to really not give a shit about who does what on an HZ score outside of artist tags and specific stand outs, since the work process is never 1:1 on every single work of his. Some will be more dominated by the team, while others might be more his own. Doesn't matter to me as long as the music is good, for which he's been more consistent on that front than several other modern composers. Definitely has his misses, but the style and ideas can usually carry a work of his.

 

That being said, I do wonder what people will have to say about this supposed glimpse into how a score like these go (from the guy who runs the HZ website):

 

 

And about Mazzaro on Bond, he did have this to say, so make of it what you will:

 

 


this sounds like an absolutely horrible way to create anything.

 

i would say if somebody has a deeper interest in film scores than “sounds epic”, authorship matters. It at least matters to me. Appreciation of art is often a contemplation of the artist’s mind and choices and decisions. How can you do that when the art and artist are so mindless.

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

Makes no difference. Zimmer is always very courteous towards his collaborators, crediting them often more than necessary. My guess is that this will be another CHAPPIE situation, perhaps, where Mazarro was heavily involved, but by no means the main composer. We'll find out in due time.

Right!

I think he gives more credit than is necessary. Certainly more than a person of his stature has too.

Consider Hollywood screenwriting credits- only the main writer(s) get credit.

You have no idea how " loathe most musicians are when it comes to credits.

Ask Nicky Hopkins, Mick Taylor, Brian Jones, Erik Burdon,  the organist on " Whiter Shade of Pale"....

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To gkgyver, Huntertech, The Ulyssian etc.: Surely, you Zimmer haters can get all your hate out in any other Zimmer-related threads, and leave this tiny little corner of the forum to those of us who actually like the man's work -- per the topic starter's intention? Just sayin'. Or do you have this uncontrollable urge within you that you MUST dump on him any given time you see the name mentioned, screw the context?

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The idiots who obsess over authorship are still stuck in the mindset of classical music.

Popular music has always been a collaborative art.

Duke Ellingston didn't compose and arrange every piece his band played.

Gershwin had collaborators.

Leonard Bernstein worked with others on WSS.

Sinatra never wrote a note of music, let alone played an instrument.

It's their name on the product. They get the credit, good or bad.

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

To gkgyver, Huntertech, The Ulyssian etc.: Surely, you Zimmer haters can get all your hate out in any other Zimmer-related threads, and leave this tiny little corner of the forum to those of us who actually like the man's work -- per the topic starter's intention? Just sayin'. Or do you have this uncontrollable urge within you that you must DUMP any given time you see the name mentioned?

Yeah!

Go visit the cesspool over at FSM and dive in!

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12 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

My God. there is no escaping them.

They're like WHITEWALKERS!😠

 

There is escaping. It's called "ignore function". 

 

But I get it, "I don't like what you say, therefore it's your obligation to shut up" is a widespread hobby these days. 

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2 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

There is escaping. It's called "ignore function". 

 

But I get it, "I don't like what you say, therefore it's your obligation to shut up" is a widespread hobby these days. 

 

Screenshot_2020-06-24-15-28-27.png

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2 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

But I get it, "I don't like what you say, therefore it's your obligation to shut up" is a widespread hobby these days. 

 

Not at all. Shout your hate out to your heart's content. But why would you do it in a thread intended for fans, and for celebration of the man's work? That just comes off as extremely petty and immature.

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4 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

..But why would you do it in a thread intended for fans, and for celebration of the man's work?..

You ask " why"?

Because, they're not really film music aficionados, they're pathetic losers. Nothing personal😅

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14 hours ago, Thor said:

To gkgyver, Huntertech, The Ulyssian etc.: Surely, you Zimmer haters can get all your hate out in any other Zimmer-related threads, and leave this tiny little corner of the forum to those of us who actually like the man's work -- per the topic starter's intention? Just sayin'. Or do you have this uncontrollable urge within you that you MUST dump on him any given time you see the name mentioned, screw the context?

 

Hmmm? Oh, I guess you forgot to read this specific part of my reply:

 

Quote

I've grown to really not give a shit about who does what on an HZ score outside of artist tags and specific stand outs, since the work process is never 1:1 on every single work of his. Some will be more dominated by the team, while others might be more his own. Doesn't matter to me as long as the music is good, for which he's been more consistent on that front than several other modern composers. Definitely has his misses, but the style and ideas can usually carry a work of his.

 

In fact, Dark Phoenix might be my favorite thing to come out of last year score wise, so perhaps my decision to lump that in-between two seemingly critical paragraphs was a bad choice on my end. :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

In fact, Dark Phoenix might be my favorite thing to come out of last year score wise, so perhaps my decision to lump that in-between two seemingly critical paragraphs was a bad choice on my end. :unsure:

 

Yes, sorry. Guess you got caught up in a string of random and inappropriate bashing there.

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17 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

There is escaping. It's called "ignore function". 

 

But I get it, "I don't like what you say, therefore it's your obligation to shut up" is a widespread hobby these days. 

I didn't think I had to " ignore" Zimmer haters in an APPRECIATION thread.

How naive of me !

 

 

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38 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:


this sounds like an absolutely horrible way to create anything.

 

i would say if somebody has a deeper interest in film scores than “sounds epic”, authorship matters. It at least matters to me. Appreciation of art is often a contemplation of the artist’s mind and choices and decisions. How can you do that when the art and artist are so mindless.

 

The issue lies on the fact that modern Hollywood has producers be on the composer's ass to make the score sound a specific way. That's likely the reason quite a few scores do very little for me, since whatever vision it had at the start gets thrown out besides one or two decent themes and/or cues. Of course, there are still some that can bypass that and make some magnificent pieces of work, but even I have to admit that RCP generally specializes in making composing machines. Could it be that Zimmer's practices led to everything being the way it is now? Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that it looks like it'll stay like that for a while, and it's a bit disappointing.

 

As for the authorship issue, as with before, I feel like we'd have heard something about it by now if there was truly discontent with it behind the scenes. HZ still gives royalties to each member in the team cue by cue (which you can find on places like the previously mentioned Zimmer website), and very recently have begun to appear in the tags of albums on streaming services. If that's not good enough, then I'm sorry that having everyone be on the album cover would look too cluttered (as Xperiments proved).

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1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:


this sounds like an absolutely horrible way to create anything.

 

i would say if somebody has a deeper interest in film scores than “sounds epic”, authorship matters. It at least matters to me. Appreciation of art is often a contemplation of the artist’s mind and choices and decisions. How can you do that when the art and artist are so mindless.

 

It can actually be a really fun way to write music. To echo Bruce, the strict "solo artist" mentality is a very narrow way of looking at things...ironically given your post, if you look _beyond_ the narrow stream that is film music, you'll find much great art has been created by the melding of great minds that happened to be simpatico and spiritually unified.

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Film has always been a collaborative art, in all facets. You have a director, but they have countless assistants that shoot footage as well. No one disparages them for “taking all the credit.”

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Not if you follow the french auteur theory. That's another great man theory - essentially assigning authorship of a movie only to the director.

 

And truly at its furthest extremes - it is a valid theory. There are several directors whose movies are completely and entirely an expression emanating from themselves. You could switch the actors or the crew or whatever, the director remains indispensable. The work originates from them and represents them.

 

This method of working has little prevalence in Hollywood but you see it in different places around the world specially in Europe.

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11 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

And truly at its furthest extremes - it is a valid theory. There are several directors whose movies are completely and entirely an expression emanating from themselves. You could switch the actors or the crew or whatever, the director remains indispensable. The work originates from them and represents them.

 

This method of working has little prevalence in Hollywood but you see it in different places around the world specially in Europe.

 

Well, sounds like you've kind of rendered your own point moot, no? This almost never happens in big Hollywood. It's just impossible given the size of the pictures, fiscal responsibility and the studios involved. Many of the same limitations that often hinder the director from taking 100% ownership of ever single word and frame (as per your auteur theory), apply to the composers who have to deliver massive 2 hour scores within a month or two's time. 

 

Zimmer just happens to get the most flack for it because he's most public about how he deals with the team when compared to his peers.

 

1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

Anyone else like Hans Zimmer?

 

He's pretty kool.

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1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

 

It can actually be a really fun way to write music. To echo Bruce, the strict "solo artist" mentality is a very narrow way of looking at things...ironically given your post, if you look _beyond_ the narrow stream that is film music, you'll find much great art has been created by the melding of great minds that happened to be simpatico and spiritually unified.

You mean like...Lennon and McCartney , ( and Starr and Harrison) produced and arranged by George Martin?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

Film has always been a collaborative art, in all facets. You have a director, but they have countless assistants that shoot footage as well. No one disparages them for “taking all the credit.”

Yeah but....but.. ...but...Zim...Zimm...Zimmer...😵

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23 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

FYI, “The Jigs” is just a made up band name to credit the countless composers that collaborated on the film.

 

 

As in the jig is up, that Zimmer is a hack who can't write a whole score if his life depended on it! Ohhhhhhhh!!!!

 

 

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There's surely room for dissenting voices in an appreciation thread, otherwise it's just an echo chamber of what you want to hear.

 

I've come round to appreciate one thing about Zimmer -- he definitely appears courteous about sharing credit, at least to the extent devoted film score followers can tell he's doing it. (I'll suggest, though, that if you have to hunt down cue sheets and digital track metadata to find evidence of Zimmer giving credit, it sure seems like he isn't going out of his way to credit his co-writers in a way the average movie-goer would notice.)

 

My own opinion here: Zimmer and Co. are exceptionally good at what they do. They pioneered their method and (give credit where it's due) they've molded Hollywood scoring in their own image. Won't last forever, but precious few composers can say they did that. The thing is, Z&C are exceptionally good at producing mediocrity. It really shouldn't take a team to compose the RCP sound. It also certainly should be possible, after 15 years, for that team to evolve their sound and demonstrate the capacity for some kind of meaningful range.

 

I'll be very interested to hear what they've got planned for WW84 and Dune; maybe I'll be forced to eat some crow.

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55 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

There's surely room for dissenting voices in an appreciation thread, otherwise it's just an echo chamber of what you want to hear.

 

Yes, and that would be delightful. A small place where one can just be a fanboy; let one's guard down and just APPRECIATE along with other fans. Anywhere else in this forum, whenever there's something Zimmer being discussed, we fans have to wear our thick skins on and be in defense mode all the time. Not that you can't air a critical view here, but it should come from people who are already fans. I don't really want to DEBATE very much in this particular thread, but applaud and be informed and share the love. Probably a pipe dream, I know.

 

Back to on-topic, positive notes, I'm listening to THE LAST DAYS again at the moment, and I'm reminded again how lovely it is. Love the melancholic woodwind writing, in particular; this is probably one of Zimmer's most orchestral drama scores (alongside things like HOUSE OF THE SPIRITS), in which the orchestra isn't merely used as colourization, but performed "on its own terms". It could do with a remastering, though.

 

I would not protest if this new Holocaust movie of his is in the same mold.

 

 

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10 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:


this sounds like an absolutely horrible way to create anything.

 

i would say if somebody has a deeper interest in film scores than “sounds epic”, authorship matters. It at least matters to me. Appreciation of art is often a contemplation of the artist’s mind and choices and decisions. How can you do that when the art and artist are so mindless.

 

Well, for Zimmer, sampling a great soloist is equivalent to having the actual soloist perform, by his own admission, so.... 

9 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

It can actually be a really fun way to write music. To echo Bruce, the strict "solo artist" mentality is a very narrow way of looking at things...ironically given your post, if you look _beyond_ the narrow stream that is film music, you'll find much great art has been created by the melding of great minds that happened to be simpatico and spiritually unified.

 

Name great composers whose works were created by several different composers. 

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13 hours ago, Thor said:

Gee whiz. Having a good time in the Hans Zimmer APPRECIATION thread, gkgyver?


I wouldn’t pay any attention to him. 

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49 minutes ago, Bilbo said:


I wouldn’t pay any attention to him. 

 

Have you collected your 106th edition of Harry Potter in Esperanto yet? 

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I'm rather enjoying Dark Phoenix at the moment. I thought it was a piece of shit when it first came out (I was not charitable in the original topic), but I was in a mood for electronic-synthy music a few weeks ago, and when treated completely as a concept album, unrelated to the film, I rather like it.

 

X-periments.... less so.

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6 hours ago, Bayesian said:

 

There's surely room for dissenting voices in an appreciation thread, otherwise it's just an echo chamber of what you want to hear.

 

That’s exactly the point of an appreciation thread. I created this 12 years ago for that exact purpose. Go to any dedicated thread to a film scored by Zimmer for your hate. 

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So moving along....

 

To you fans out there -- how many Zimmer albums do you have in your collection?


I have 66, digital and CDs combined.

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The only Zimmer albums I own are Black Rain (LLL), Days of Thunder (LLL), Drop Zone, Crimson Tide, Broken Arrow (OST & LLL), The Rock, and The Peacemaker (OST & LLL).  Absolutely love that late 90s hard rock film score sound, never really got into anything else he did.

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

The only Zimmer albums I own are Black Rain (LLL), Days of Thunder (LLL), Drop Zone, Crimson Tide, Broken Arrow (OST & LLL), The Rock, and The Peacemaker (OST & LLL).  Absolutely love that late 90s hard rock film score sound, never really got into anything else he did.

 

Cool! I think BACKDRAFT would feat neatly into that 'power anthem' collection, if you can find it.

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4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What about Con Air? Is that score considered good?

 

It's Trevor Rabin and Mark Mancina, but while it has its moments (like the main theme), I was never that much of a fan. Love the film, less thrilled with the score.

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I liked it OKish back in the day, haven't listened since I was a teenager.  But that's a Mark Mancina & Trevor Rabin score, so outside the scope of this thread.

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9 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Cool! I think BACKDRAFT would feat neatly into that 'power anthem' collection, if you can find it.

 

I think if I had picked it up back in the day I might have enjoyed it along with those other ones.  I finally heard it within the last 5-10 years or whenever the complete score leaked, and I didn't care for it that much.  I likely wouldn't enjoy those other ones I mentioned if I heard them for the first time now either, but since I loved them as a kid I'll forever love them now

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Quote

I thought it was HanZ, probably due to the sound.

 

Well, it was a time when both Mancinia and Rabin were sporadically involved with Remote Control (or Media Ventures, as it was called then), and it no doubt bears the influence of Zimmer's style at the time. In fact, I chatted a bit with Rabin about this a couple of years ago: http://celluloidtunes.no/celluloid-tunes-57-trevor-rabin-in-oslo-19th-international-edition/

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Just now, Jay said:

Powell's Face Off is basically the same sound as well

 

Indeed. Especially "Furniture". And it even has a track called "Hans' Loft" in tribute to his mentor at the time.

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4 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Well, it was a time when both Mancinia and Rabin were sporadically involved with Remote Control, and it no doubt bears the influence of Zimmer's style at the time. In fact, I chatted a bit with Rabin about this a couple of years ago: http://celluloidtunes.no/celluloid-tunes-57-trevor-rabin-in-oslo-19th-international-edition/

 

I actually listened to this episode a while back, but my short term memory is dead.

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7 hours ago, gkgyver said:

Name great composers whose works were created by several different composers

 

What makes music great to you? Honest question. My comment wasn't aimed as much in the orchestral realm; I don't think the European symphonic orchestra is the alpha and omega of music. 

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I'm not a fan of the "power rock" sound!

Just goes to show how much variety there is in his work.

 

My faves are his AFRICAN inflected scores and his minimalist style which began with TRL.

 

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My collection:

 

The Thin Red Line

Interstellar

Gladiator

King Arthur

Da Vinci Code

Angels & Demons

The Lone Ranger

Dark Phoenix

Pirates 3

 

Plus a few bits from The Rock. Might be missing the odd one, as I don't sort my collection by composer.

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