Hans Zimmer Appreciation Thread

[Romão 2,274]

Money and royalties aside (which must be quite significant in this case), I'd imagine a court battle to determine who DIDN'T write the theme.

[Jay 37,352]

[Datameister 2,042]

Zimmer played a strong role in writing at least some of the themes from the first Pirates. Badelt may have contributed to some of them, but his main task was adapting them into an actual score for the film, since what Zimmer created was just a mashup of some of the themes.

Also, because the first Pirates was my first real Zimmer-esque score, I loved it. I'd never heard anything like it, and that sound thus hadn't gotten tired yet for me. (And I actually can't stand the new theme Zimmer wrote for Jack in the second film. Although it does fit the new Jack perfectly...but that's probably part of the reason.)

[Romão 2,274]

It's just a matter of opinion, but I don't there's anything that could be praised in that first POTC score. It's not even artistically honest.

[Kevin 22]

I'm not a Zimmer hater, far from it, I actually do think the guy has talent, but iconic or not, I still think the Pirates of the Caribbean theme is one of the worst things he has ever written and I sincerely doubt Zimmer himself is proud of it. On the other hand is Jack Sparrow theme is a lot of fun (before it gets all "wall of sound MV style")

It's a staple on the high school concert band circuit.

[Romão 2,274]

Which one, the He's a Pirate thing?

[Datameister 2,042]

It borrows incessantly from countless Zimmer scores, and not just in indirect, general ways. We're talking Horner-status plagiarism in the majority of the music. But again...I hadn't heard any of those scores when I saw the first Pirates, so it just seemed fresh and new and interesting at the time. Now I'm of course aware of all this, and I can't wholeheartedly enjoy the score like I once did. But some of that original feeling still persists, and I can enjoy bits of the score if I'm in the right mood. I can't offer much in the way of objective praises - just explaining why the score used to strongly appeal to me. I can understand why so many people went crazy for it.

[Neimoidian 14]

It's just a matter of opinion, but I don't there's anything that could be praised in that first POTC score. It's not even artistically honest.

Pity they didn't let Badelt (nor give him enough time to) write his "own" score. Instead we got retarded hybrid of Zimmer+Rabin+Mancina kind sound.

[Romão 2,274]

Oh, I hear you, Datameister. I caught Gladiator in a similar time in my life and I though it was one of best scores ever. Looking back now, one can see how one's musical taste and perception evolves, but still, the nostalgia factor and the many memories associated with the music make me enjoy it more than it probably deserves

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'm not a Zimmer hater, far from it, I actually do think the guy has talent, but iconic or not, I still think the Pirates of the Caribbean theme is one of the worst things he has ever written and I sincerely doubt Zimmer himself is proud of it. On the other hand is Jack Sparrow theme is a lot of fun (before it gets all "wall of sound MV style")

It's a staple on the high school concert band circuit.

Is this how we judge our music now?

"Goldsmith's 'The Hunt' is a brutal and avant-garde journey into a truly alien soundscape, but it'll never reach the masterpiece status of Petula Clark's 'Downtown'."

[Datameister 2,042]

It's a good way to judge a specific type of pop-culture impact. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Kevin 22]

I'm not a Zimmer hater, far from it, I actually do think the guy has talent, but iconic or not, I still think the Pirates of the Caribbean theme is one of the worst things he has ever written and I sincerely doubt Zimmer himself is proud of it. On the other hand is Jack Sparrow theme is a lot of fun (before it gets all "wall of sound MV style")

It's a staple on the high school concert band circuit.

Is this how we judge our music now?

"Goldsmith's 'The Hunt' is a brutal and avant-garde journey into a truly alien soundscape, but it'll never reach the masterpiece status of Petula Clark's 'Downtown'."

I was just saying that it is popular with high school concert bands, because of how relatively easy it is to play.

[fommes 153]

I was just saying that it is popular with high school concert bands, because of how relatively easy it is to play.

Yep, they can just press the PLAY button.

[Jacob 0]

So what is the final word on who wrote the "He's A Pirate"-theme? Zimmer or Badelt? Is this a modern James Bond theme-like dispute, or is there more definite clarity on who wrote it?

Zimmer already wrote it for Drop Zone.

[Datameister 2,042]

Depends on which theme we're talking about. The score has a number of 'em, even within "He's a Pirate." There's a sort of love theme/main theme that kicks off "He's a Pirate", which has ties to a melody from Gladiator. Next comes another melody borrowed more directly from Gladiator, though it also has similarities to that melody heard in Drop Zone (which was actually used in the trailers). Then comes Jack's original theme (as opposed to the stupid, goofy one written for DMC), which is similar to what I believe is the main theme to Gladiator, and the cue ends with a theme that I can't tie to anything more specific than Zimmer's general power anthem sound. (It's probably based on something I haven't heard, though.) Then if you look elsewhere in the score, you've got a darker theme with heavy Crimson Tide underscore influences...a statement of the love theme in the style of action music from Backdraft...a tense motif borrowed from Gladiator...all kinds of stuff.

In other words, the first Pirates has as many themes as your average Williams score. The only problem is that they'd all been written before.

[Romão 2,274]

So what is the final word on who wrote the "He's A Pirate"-theme? Zimmer or Badelt? Is this a modern James Bond theme-like dispute, or is there more definite clarity on who wrote it?

Zimmer already wrote it for Drop Zone.

Even if I was hearing something like that for the first time, it would still sound like absolute crap. God, that's truly awful music. Absolutely dreadful

[Datameister 2,042]

I enjoy it. Its strengths don't overlap at all with the strengths of, say, the music of Williams or Goldsmith or the other "symphonic" greats. The appeal is very, very, very different.

I like to compare it to theme parks. (Unsurprising, as they are my other main passion, aside from film scores.) On the one hand, you've got roller coasters that exist simply to pump your body full of adrenaline. Pure rush. Nothing to think about except the thrill of the ride. Then you've got slower, more cerebral experiences - dark rides and so forth - that pack quite an emotional punch without resorting to sheer physical intensity. There are a lot of people who strongly prefer one or the other. I guess I'm fortunate enough to enjoy both if I'm in the right mood - although I have no doubt which of the two is more important to me personally, and to the respective arts of film scoring and theme park design.

[King Mark 3,631]

you call that "iconic" music?

[Datameister 2,042]

I don't know how someone could possibly argue that Zimmer's sound is not iconic. Whether the music is good is a highly subjective thing, but the fact that it's made a major impact on the film music industry and on moviegoers seems indisputable to me.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Exactly.

Zimmer wrote most of the score for The Curse Of The Black Pearl. He went on record saying that his contract with The Last Samurai said he could not work on anything else, so he passed on the credit to Badelt and let him compose as well. I also suspect it's why Badelt doesn't work with Zimmer or Hollywood anymore, but that's just me. He's doing great composing for European movies.

It says "Overproduced by Hans Zimmer" on the back. They invented a word to describe his involvement with the score.

If you want even more proof, just listen to the first demo for the score included on the Treasure Box music set that was released a few years ago. It's a crappy synth suite of all the major themes - written by Hans Zimmer.

[Datameister 2,042]

Well, of most of the major themes. Jack's theme - again, his original theme, not the crappy DMC theme that everyone loves - isn't in that demo, which makes me wonder if it was Zimmer's doing or Badelt's.

[Ollie 1,059]

It doesn't matter who wrote it, it's all crap.

[Datameister 2,042]

Some people like crap!

...

I'm not a coprophile, I swear.

[Ollie 1,059]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So what is the final word on who wrote the "He's A Pirate"-theme? Zimmer or Badelt? Is this a modern James Bond theme-like dispute, or is there more definite clarity on who wrote it?

Since it's based on a theme in The Battle from Gladiator, we can safely say that the origin lies with Zimmer...whoever actually wrote it.

[crocodile 8,006]

I always thought they used Soundcloud.

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,686]

So what is the final word on who wrote the "He's A Pirate"-theme? Zimmer or Badelt? Is this a modern James Bond theme-like dispute, or is there more definite clarity on who wrote it?

Since it's based on a theme in The Battle from Gladiator, we can safely say that the origin lies with Zimmer...whoever actually wrote it.

I thought it was mentioned at some point that Zimmer had written the themes, then let Badelt coordinate the actual composing. I definitely wouldn't think there's any sort of dispute at a Bond level.

[Sandor 797]

So what is the final word on who wrote the "He's A Pirate"-theme? Zimmer or Badelt? Is this a modern James Bond theme-like dispute, or is there more definite clarity on who wrote it?

Since it's based on a theme in The Battle from Gladiator, we can safely say that the origin lies with Zimmer...whoever actually wrote it.

I thought it was mentioned at some point that Zimmer had written the themes, then let Badelt coordinate the actual composing. I definitely wouldn't think there's any sort of dispute at a Bond level.

There is. There is quite a lot of mystery surrounding who owns the composing credit for He's A Pirate. It sounds Zimmer all the way, but Badelt has written music that sounds eerily Zimmerish before.

The thing that makes the whole situation even more disputable are statements made by Badelt in the past concerning He's A Pirate where he insinuates being the composer of that particular piece.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, it's based of that melody in the middle of The Battle. It's either Zimmer of Badelt sticking to a temp track.

[Sandor 797]

Again, it's based of that melody in the middle of The Battle. It's either Zimmer of Badelt sticking to a temp track.

Yeah, but we are talking about perhaps the most iconic musical theme from the 00's, so I doubt anyone cares whether it is based on something from Gladiator or not.

He's A Pirate has been performed all over the world, and it's popularity cannot be debated. If film music has genuine hits, He's A Pirate is one of them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah. A pity it's not really any good. It's one of those themes that stick in your head while you DON'T want it too. Like Gianchinno's Star Trek theme, or Williams' The Patriot Theme.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I have trouble recalling it. I kind of know what it sounds like, but if I try and hum it I end up coming out with Gladiator or something that sounds like The Rock.

[Ollie 1,059]

. Like Gianchinno's Star Trek theme, or Williams' The Patriot Theme.

Those 2 are fine. I don't mind them staying in my head at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I may actually prefer the Zimmer/Badellt Theme.

[Ollie 1,059]

You're sick.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And you're old and portly!

[Romão 2,274]

Some orchestras must feel really embarassed to play something like He's a Pirate on some film music greatest hits concerts. I really do think it is an excruciatingly bad piece of music. It gives film music a bad name

[crocodile 8,006]

POTC theme is something that seems like a good idea while you're drunk.

...which is actually very fitting jor Jack Sparrow.

Karol

[Neimoidian 14]

POTC theme is something that seems like a good idea while you're drunk.

Karol

I believe Zimmer admited it somewhere that he had concived it after some booze. If so, this leads to only one conclusion: Alcohol is bad, mmm'kay.

[Datameister 2,042]

Supposedly, there was alcohol involved in the composing process...no joke. [EDIT: See? I wasn't the only person to remember that!]

I still like it, though. When I'm in the mood for over-the-top adrenaline junkie over-synthed Zimmer rip-off power anthem stuff, at least. Which I occasionally am. Back when it was the only score in that vein I'd ever heard, it seemed powerfully fresh and revolutionary and original (ironically), and I liked the modern twist it gave to the film, which wasn't a conventional pirate movie. Buying the soundtrack was an easy choice, and one that I really enjoyed for a while.

Then I started having conversations with other film score enthusiasts - especially on this board - and everything changed.

But anyway, the thing is, most casual listeners (and even a fair number of people who buy soundtracks on a regular basis) aren't judging based on originality or intelligence or raw orchestral savvy. You can lay out all these logical arguments for them, and they may agree, but they won't care. The music speaks to them on an emotional level, without intellectual interference, and nothing you say will convince them otherwise. Since they're happier with the situation, maybe there's something there to be envied.

[Romão 2,274]

This reminds how REM were kinda embarassed by the fact their most well know song was "Shiny Happy People". Even Zimmer, who has his fair share of stinkers, must be somewhat appaled "He's a Pirate" will be what he will most remembered for when he's gone

[Neimoidian 14]

Then I started having conversations with other film score enthusiasts - especially on this board - and everything changed.

The power of conformism

[Datameister 2,042]

Then I started having conversations with other film score enthusiasts - especially on this board - and everything changed.

The power of conformism

It's a combination of conformism and enlightenment.

[Wojo 2,453]

Actually, reading how much the fuddy duddies despise "He's a Pirate" -- or any other music from POTC, for that matter -- makes me like it all that much more. Call it anti-conformism, I don't care. It's as iconic as just about anything Depp drunkenly mumbles in those movies.

The POTC scores are harmless if someone uses them as contemporary entry-level soundtracks, and then explores the rest of the composers' libraries of music. If someone just buys the Badelt/Zimmer album but then stops there as if it's the bestest ever, ok, then there's a problem.

The dent crevasse that the specialty labels have put into my wallet -- and backlog of unripped or at least unprocessed score albums -- indicate one can be "enlightened," but still listen to the bread and circuses written for the ignorant, and like it.

[Brónach 1,302]

I've got to say, with all the Zimmer bashing, sometimes I listen to a score of his again after a lot of time of his and I'm genuinely surprised. It happened to me a few days ago wiith At World's End.

[Romão 2,274]

I'm not bashing Zimmer per se, just that awful first POTC score

[Brónach 1,302]

Oh, I used to love it at the time, now I can only stand bits of it.

[Ollie 1,059]

I've got to say, with all the Zimmer bashing, sometimes I listen to a score of his again after a lot of time of his and I'm genuinely surprised. It happened to me a few days ago wiith At World's End.

In the 3rd POTC score, there's about 5 minutes in "I Don't Think Now Is the Best Time" where Zimmer's music is actually good and worthwhile.

[Neimoidian 14]

I'm not bashing Zimmer per se, just that awful first POTC score

I am soon going to watch the whole movie with the score performed live. I'm really curious about it.

[Ollie 1,059]

Interesting, will it be with synths or just with a standard orchestra?