The 2nd OFFICIAL Indy IV Thread

[Neimoidian 14]

Hey, we have brandnew Indy TV spots on the Official site! Check out the last one!

Many new scenes...

They aren't new for me

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, I will see it tomorrow night! Can't wait!!!

[Olivier 5]

The movie opened this morning here in France (for the general public, after being presented in Cannes), and as it turned out, I was able to see it this morning.

I liked it a lot !

All four movies are very different: the first one is theclassic adventure movie; the second one is very dark, a cross with terror movies; the third one lightened up the tone; the fourth one is more akin to the latter, but not exactly similar.

A big difference is pacing, taking the character's age into account.

Indy has never been a superhero à la Superman (super powers) or Batman (extra training); however spectacular, all his stunts have always been pretty realistic, and were indeed performed live by stuntmen (and Ford himself), albeit at a slower speed than it appears to be in the movie in the case of Raiders' truck chase, for instance. Luck was a big help too.

Depicting him as an older man is thus not too much of a stretch, and what he does remains credible enough for someone in good shape-- you can even clearly see Ford himself doing some "little" stuff (ex:

climbing the crates at the beginning, or climbing from the car onto the bike-- if this one used CGI face replacement, it was remarkably done, but I don't think so)

; most of it is a bit of running around, whip action, and fisticuffs.

The first action scene even has a little joke showing Indy is not quite as good as in his 30's (

swinging onto the truck

.

Age is thus not a problem, and well handled.

Another major difference is the pace and switch in focus.

In the first one, Indy gets Marion & the medallion, goes to the map room, finds the well of souls; in the second one, he reads a parchment and something on a wall; in the third one, he finds the knight's tomb, then uses the clues in his father's diary to pass the three traps.

Here, there is more intellectual work (

decyphering Oxley's message, understanding his inscriptions and finding the map in his cell, figuring out what happened in the conquistadors' tomb

).

It's a bit of a caricature, but in a sense, in the first three, action soon follows a change in location, and much of the figuring out is already done (especially to find the Grail), so that action is more emphasized; here, as in Carl Barks' Uncle Scrooge comics, there is more pondering.

When there is action, however, it gets better and better.

The short warehouse chase

acts as a fun appetizer.

The motorcycle chase

is meatier and has some really good moments.

The jungle chase

is the main piece, with

lots going on involving all the characters, suspense and thrills, and even some swordsplay; the ant scene is great, and those deaths scenes are "scary"

.

I have not noted any highly memorable bits of dialogue, but the movie has the same sort of humor as its predecessors.

"Grab the rope!"

There are a few references to the earlier movies and even The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, but they are very discrete (not recurring jokes nor heavy wink-wink nudge-nudge moments).

The new era, villains and background are really interesting; Crusade was actually the only one that really did something meaningful with the Nazis: they were not just the bad guys; the book burning scene, however short it was, and however little connected to the plot it was-- at no point did they have to save the diary from a pyre--, showed a tiny bit of what Nazism meant (eradication of culture by burning books-- and killing intellectuals); it was a mere hint, but it was a lot more than merely having them be the guys in a fun adventure movie.

The fourth one uses the context much more, and integrates it better in its story:

mistrust, paranoia, betrayals; even the aliens' community of thought and action as described by Irina at the end is reminiscent of people mindlessly led by a dictator-- and of course, she had already explained how they intended to brainwash people without their suspecting anything

.

I had never seen anything with Shia LaBeouf and was a bit wary, especially with his caricatural character, but I trusted Spielberg in his casting, and he was good indeed.

It's true that Marion

is a bit quick to forgive Indy and less resentful than when they meet again in Raiders, but you might say she has truly always missed him, and that after all those years she had rather enjoy what time they may have together than remain bitter

.

My only true disappointments are the very beginning and end: the opening scene,

with the college kids racing the army vehicles and playing songs was very odd and pointless, apart from showing the carefree attitude of '50's youth; I lept expecting they were leading them into a trap; the prairie dog gags, however, were cute

; as for the end,

it's not so much the marriage ceremony as the very last shots that I deplore; a happy end is a happy end; rather than Indy and Marion leaving in the background, followed by their friends, and Mutt combing his hair in the final frames, I would much have preferred the movie to end on a group shot, the way Lethal Weapon 4 did; I guess this is symbolical of the new generation taking over and all that, but Indy deserved a better final frame if this is to be his truly last movie (despite Lucas' ideas, you never know what might happen)

.

Raider's opening and ending sequences cannot be topped; Doom's opening sequence is good (fun & exciting); Crusade's first sequence is interesting, funny and has a nice little chase; and the second best ending (the silhouettes riding into the gorgeous sunset).

Do not trust the reviewers saying it's bad and such things; you know how it is: some people think it's so much cooler to say something is bad, especially when they get to see it first, to supposedly show how intellectually superior they are.

It is not Raiders of the Lost Ark, and it is not The Temple of Doom; it is not quite The Last Crusade either because it's not quite as frantic (despite some good action pieces) and because Sean Connery is one of a kind.

However, it truly is a very good, entertaining, fun adventure movie with familiar characters and some pretty good new characters (Irina really is good).

Lucas, Spielberg and Ford clearly had a lot of fun writing and doing this movie.

This is not blind fanboyishness on my part.

Being as awesome as the first two movies is nearly impossible (the second one did it by beign extremely different); like the third one, it is very good, the same way even the lesser scores by Williams, Goldsmith, ..., are still much much better than dozens of others by new lesser composers; it may not be in their top ten, but it's absolutely not trash either.

Speaking of music, I am eager to get the CD (I ordered it from amazon.fr; availability was postponed from May 19 to May 26). I liked what I heard, and there was some great stuff, but I need the CD to really judge it. It certainly did not sound bland at all, and the huge action sequence in the middle had some great music.

I had a great time.

Have fun seeing it!

(I know, I still need to update the skull's shape to the actual one)

[Neimoidian 14]

Great review Olivier

I agree with most of the stuff, however I don't see why you are so disappointed with the opening shot. I think that scene reflects exactly what you wrote, besides it had to be redundant enough to show the credits without distracting the audience. However, I agree about

prairie dog gags

It was pointless. Cute, but pointless.

What do you think about the other new characters - Mac and Irina?

[MissPadmé 17]

"Iiiiiiiiiiiiiii'm off to see the Indy, the wounderful Indiana Jones...."

see you..

[Vaderbait1 1]

I wonder if it's big enough to be sold out for a midnight show tonight?

Hm...

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I've seen it, and while it is fun and entertaining, The Last Crusade need no longer be called The Least Crusade. My main gripe is with some of the way too over the top action. I also did not like

the painfully obvious CG cutey prairie dogs, the lack of a gross out scene, a CG creepy crawly scene and the ending

. Somehow it feels a bit too big, too ambitious, too excessive, too much CG. The CG isnt prequel style constant overdose, and its limited to a few scenes. But the problem is in those few scenes, it steps out of the real world feel of Indy and into prequel territory.

Remaining on the topic of excessiveness, even Indy's posse is comparably huge this time around. In Raiders he was mostly alone or with Marion or Sallah. In ToD he had Willie and Short Round. In Crusade it was his dad for most part before being joined by Sallah and Brody towards the end. This time, he practically has Mutt, Marion, Mac and Oxley tagging along right behind him for more than half the movie...

About the ending, did anyone feel that it sort of felt awkward?

The aliens were somewhat reminiscent of Close Encounters (and this comes after the War of the Worlds music reference) and Ford even gets to say 'I got a bad feeling about this', which made me chuckle at a moment which was supposed to be its equivalent to the Ark opening.

That said, its still entertaining and the cast and filmmakers seem to be having enormous fun and are very enthusiastic, maybe overly so. It must be said that Lucas definitely had quite a bit of influence on this. It doesnt feel like an out and out Spielberg movie, but like a collaboration. OK, maybe the earlier films were too, but young Lucas was better than old Lucas. If I were to rate it on a relative scale, with Raiders getting a 10, Temple a 9 and Last Crusade a 7.5, Skull is a 7.

[Olivier 5]

Thanks, Krzyszstof!

I liked reading your comments, too.

Great review Olivier

I agree with most of the stuff, however I don't see why you are so disappointed with the opening shot. I think that scene reflects exactly what you wrote, besides it had to be redundant enough to show the credits without distracting the audience.

My problem is that

this part with the college kids does not lead anywhere; Raiders did not lose time introducing Indy; Temple introduced Willie Scott; Crusade showed a young Indy; here, this bit on the road only introduces what turns out to be Communists, but no Indy. Thematically, the contrast between the carefree youth and the army, who turn out to be enemies, is great; as a scene however, it does not do much; and as an Indy opening credits sequence, it's disappointing

No problem with

the prairie dogs, however; the Paramount-to-prairie dog's mound transition was a very funny surprise; the little creatures are nicely done, and it's all very cute. The visual play with the logo has always been a wink to the audience, so this is perfect

.

What do you think about the other new characters - Mac and Irina?

Mac

is pretty good and rather convincing for a moment after his "double agent" reveal. The University's Dean said something about trust, and Crusade's Donovan warned Indy to trust nobody; Mac is another example of this.

As Mac says, it's not about flags: each movie's traitor really always act in his own interest and merely uses whoever appears to them to be the most powerful force.

Incidentally, from the moment I saw one of the first released pictures from the movie (when they enter the "temple" at the end), the actor has always made me think of MacGyver's pal-- I forget his name.

Irina is a good villain, like Belloq, as you said. She literally embodies the Cold War in her cold demeanor. Cate Blanchett is great; she's convincing in the action bits, too, as you noted, and most especially in the

jungle chase

.

Making her a doctor researching psychic phenomena, who attempts telepathy in her first encounter with Indy, is also true to fact, sicne both sides did investigate extra-sensorial perception; it's interesting that she is not actually shown using any telepathic powers, so that we do not know whether it actually works or not; any telepathy in the movie comes from the skull or the extra-terrestrial creature at the end.

.

Speaking of which, I concur with your remark in reply to a question above: whatever CGI creatures are in there are very well done, and are not used in a distracting way--

the prairie dogs are here for a few simple cute gags; the monkeys do not detract from the action and even inspire Mutt's Tarzaning his way to the trucks, then follow him; the monkey Irina throws away was extremely well done-- wonderful "trajectory" & movement

.

The things I prefer:

- at the beginning,

the warehouse chase-- most especially that missed swing onto the truck

- right after this,

the nuclear mushroom. Awesome in all the senses of the word: visually impressive and beautiful, yet terrifying and horrible. This was a great anticlimax to the happy, carefree feeling of the beginning on the highway, and the movie chase and escape we have just witness; it's both a great picture, a good balance, and an excellent reminder of what the Cold War was about exactly: who might drop it first.

I found the refrigerator bit suspenseful, funny and good; this fake "village" scene surely lacks the exoticism of Peru, China and Utah, but the contrast with the atomic mushroom is all the greater-- a nice little perfect town, happy Howdy Doody time, a funny way of escaping death, and then that unforgettable image. As for the refrigerator itself, it's no more ridiculous / outlandish than escaping a crashing plane in a rubber raft, and thus fits in the series nicely.

- then of course, the University sequence:

it's a good little chase, and we get lots of splendid images of the University

- the

cemetery scene; I wish the "undead" angle had lasted a few seconds longer; it was a very efficient scene; some explaining about the guy would have helped though: I wondered if he were some equivalent of the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword

.

- "Grab the rope!"--

a bad spot & character-tied humor

- the wonderful

jungle chase; a great long sequence, with plenty of suspense & action, lots of playing around with the skull, swordsplay on two moving cars, all leading to man-eating ants and three falls

- the

mechanisms and sets at the end

.

Finding something like The Ark of the Covenant was tough enough to top; finding the Holy Grail could hardly be topped (though there must surely be equally important artefacts in other religions).

Going after a crystal skull was a good idea, and the

extra-terrestrial angle was interesting in many ways.

First, by the way, I liked their referring to them as "spacemen".

Secondly, from the little I have read so far (I have more to read now: I got a book on the subject), one of the theories was that the skulls had been made by spaceman; making the skulls not artefacts but actual skulls is a very clever idea.

Obviously, this "X-Files" element, more explicitly, the Roswell mystery, is contemporary of Indy, and was in a sense natural in here, especially with the links to a Mayan culture; it all fits together nicely.

Thematically, the spacemen and their mysteries are also representative of the era: a golden age of economic and creative boom, yet much fear, plenty of betraying and witch hunting, paranoia, mysteries and rumors.

It's rather ironical and a true surprise that the spaceman turns out to actually be one being, physically rather than just spiritually, after this Dark Crystal- like transformation of the skeletons into a single being.

When I said above that it's good because it's Spielberg even though it's not RotLA / IJatToD good, it might have seemed like damning with faint praise, but it is not.

It's a good movie on its own; some things might have been fine-tuned, but there are no glaring flaws, no awfully bad scenes, no bad effects, no bad action, and it all flows well.

In terms of continuity, no drastic changes have been made to the character, who is just as doubting and daring as before, though perhaps a bit more cautious; the big change is that we get more talking and "figuring out things" scenes, which is a good way of handling the character's age in a more subtle way than "oops! darn, missed! ow, my back! I'm too old! ...".

It really is a good movie, and a good fourth entry.

I guess my preference order is:

1/ Raiders

2/ Temple-- very close behind; it is so very different the comparison is a bit unfair; it's nearly a tie, really

3/ Crusade-- not that far behind the others

4/ Skull-- not very far behind either.

(Sorry about all the black bars in the message-- the C.I.A. had me cover up most of the text)

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

And another thing, Kaminski does try to match Slocombe and does it well in many scenes, does anyone else feel that he had a tendency to overdo the pearly white blown out lighting?

[Neimoidian 14]

I've seen it, and while it is fun and entertaining, The Last Crusade need no longer be called The Least Crusade. My main gripe is with some of the way too over the top action. I also did not like

the painfully obvious CG cutey prairie dogs, the lack of a gross out scene, a CG creepy crawly scene and the ending

. Somehow it feels a bit too big, too ambitious, too excessive, too much CG. The CG isnt prequel style constant overdose, and its limited to a few scenes. But the problem is in those few scenes, it steps out of the real world feel of Indy and into prequel territory.

About the ending, did anyone feel that it sort of fell flat?

The aliens were somewhat reminiscent of Close Encounters (and this comes after the War of the Worlds music reference) and Ford even gets to say 'I got a bad feeling about this'.

That said, its still entertaining and the cast and filmmakers seem to be having enormous fun and are very enthusiastic, maybe overly so. It must be said that Lucas definitely had quite a bit of influence on this. It doesnt feel like an out and out Spielberg movie, but like a collaboration. OK, maybe the earlier films were too, but young Lucas was better than old Lucas. If I were to rate it on a relative scale, with Raiders getting a 10, Temple a 9 and Last Crusade a 7.5, Skull is a 7.

I have a hard time thinking of KotCS as a worst of the series since I believe I was the least disappointed with it compared to other Indy sequels (or prequel and sequel if one likes). Of course, I might have lowered my expectation too much or I'm still too excited to objectively assess the new movie, but I definitely don't find this movie the worst of the series (I never liked Temple very much and Crusade always seemed to me as a slightly poorer and too comical imitation of The Raiders (not to mention the CGI in KotCS was 100% better than the f-x in TLC). On the other hand I could not disagree with you about certain things -

pointless prairie dogs, schmalzy wedding... I'd also add the also pointless monkeys and the demise of Irina, which doesn't compare to the old-fashioned gore.

As for the way too over the top action, was it more over the top than truck chase, slalom on Mt. Humol (particularly the fall from the plane and the one into the river), mine cart chase, circus train sequence, Nazi plane going through a tunnel...? I don't think so. It's the same combination of adrenaline, exaggeration and silliness we all liked in previous Indys.

And another thing, Kaminski does try to match Slocombe and does it well in many scenes, does anyone else feel that he had a tendency to overdo the pearly white blown out lighting?

Yes, he overdoes the blown out lighting, it's the trademark of his style, sort of. On the other hand, Spielberg must like it very much, since in his non-Spielberg films, he uses this light in a more restrained way. Not to mention that in some movies (e.g. Minority Report) he was asked to do ugly looking, too grainy and oversaturated pictures.

The things I prefer:

(...)

- right after this,

the nuclear mushroom. Awesome in all the senses of the word: visually impressive and beautiful, yet terrifying and horrible. This was a great anticlimax to the happy, carefree feeling of the beginning on the highway, and the movie chase and escape we have just witness; it's both a great picture, a good balance, and an excellent reminder of what the Cold War was about exactly: who might drop it first.

I didn't like it too much. I think this was the most over the top scene, clearly too much over the top for me. I'm not a specialist, but after

such an exposition to nuclear explosion, he should have been dying from radioactive diseases, not having an adventure and taking a bride. The fridge scene could have been funnier if it was in some cartoon, not actors movie. Jones shouldn't have get out of it just like that. It's not something I could easily believe in, even in IJ universe

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I just wanted it to match Last Crusade, and on first viewing, it didn't quite manage that.

As for the way too over the top action, was it more over the top than truck chase, slalom on Mt. Humol (particularly the fall from the plane and the one into the river), mine cart chase, circus train sequence, Nazi plane going through a tunnel...? I don't think so. It's the same combination of adrenaline, exaggeration and silliness we all liked in previous Indys.

Compared in writing, not quite. But maybe the old school miniature effects somehow sold the ridiculousness better than spanking new CG and Indy didnt seem quite so indestructible in the earlier films, which is somewhat ironic given that he was younger then. Then again maybe its just nostalgia. I need to digest this film a bit before a second viewing.

Yes, he overdoes the blown out lighting, it's the trademark of his style, sort of. On the other hand, Spielberg must like it very much, since in his non-Spielberg films, he uses this light in a more restrained way. Not to mention that in some movies (e.g. Minority Report) he was asked to do ugly looking, too grainy and oversaturated pictures.

Indeed it is. But it felt a bit odd seeing it excessively in an Indy film. I'll just have to get used to it.

[Neimoidian 14]

I just wanted it to match Last Crusade, and on first viewing, it didn't quite manage that.

As for the way too over the top action, was it more over the top than truck chase, slalom on Mt. Humol (particularly the fall from the plane and the one into the river), mine cart chase, circus train sequence, Nazi plane going through a tunnel...? I don't think so. It's the same combination of adrenaline, exaggeration and silliness we all liked in previous Indys.

Compared in writing, not quite. But maybe the old school miniature effects somehow sold the ridiculousness better than spanking new CG and Indy didnt seem quite so indestructible in the earlier films, which is somewhat ironic given that he was younger then. Then again maybe its just nostalgia. I need to digest this film a bit before a second viewing.

Perhaps. I have to watch it couple of times more to form a solid opinion, too.

Yes, he overdoes the blown out lighting, it's the trademark of his style, sort of. On the other hand, Spielberg must like it very much, since in his non-Spielberg films, he uses this light in a more restrained way. Not to mention that in some movies (e.g. Minority Report) he was asked to do ugly looking, too grainy and oversaturated pictures.

Indeed it is. But it felt a bit odd seeing it excessively in an Indy film. I'll just have to get used to it.

It's not easy to give up own style.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Going back to the over the top action, the

Tarzan sequence wasn't just over the top, it was rather embarrassingly stupid as well.

And btw, did anyone notice that Ford

also gets to say 'This is intolerable!'

Funnily, it can be said that every Indy sequel is a bit too much in some way or another. ToD tried hard to be different, and its perceived to be as too dark and sadistic. Crusade is an 'apology' of sorts for ToD, and veered too much into the opposite direction. Skull tries very hard to satisfy 19 years of anticipation and nostalgia, and thus comes across as a bit too much of everything, trying to hit all the buttons and then some with varying degrees of success. An oversweet dessert from Spielberg after the bitter herbs of Munich

[Olivier 5]

I didn't like it too much. I think this was the most over the top scene, clearly too much over the top for me. I'm not a specialist, but after

such an exposition to nuclear explosion, he should have been dying from radioactive diseases, not having an adventure and taking a bride. The fridge scene could have been funnier if it was in some cartoon, not actors movie. Jones shouldn't have get out of it just like that. It's not something I could easily believe in, even in IJ universe

I agree. It was rather cartoonish, but I liked the idea (the threat, the symbol, the visuals).

Since he has been thrown very far away and is very soon scrubbed, I think it's okay.

The

Tarzaning was a bit silly because too easy for a first-timer, but I let it go

.

[MissPadmé 17]

I just arrived at home... one thing in advance:

The music in the german mix (in the cinema I was watching) was pretty loud.. you could easly listen to the music

NOW:

I went to all the Star Wars Prequels twice (well sometimes with alittle pain) but I defenitely won't go this a second time!

I REALLY enjoyed it atleast the first half... but there was a certain spot where it went downhill for me

so many problems regarding the storyline and the whole idea of the crystal skull and sooo many elements I cannot live with. I still don't know what this movie was... I am still waiting for the forth INDIANA JONES movie they promised...

oh man 15 years of development..for this. the plot defenitely needed more "ironing" it seems so careless losely stiched together...

Before I was surprised about the "low" rating of this film (Rotten tomatoes about 79%) and now I cannot understand how it got thatmuch..

They said "THis film is critic proof...." well but I can't imagine it being "FAN-proof" I cannot think of an Indy film liking this.. or walk out with an entirely positve feeling

This for me was nothing but national treasure with ONE single bonus... INDY instead of Nicholas Cage

and now i will watch Raiders on DVD, so that I can say, that I have seen one GOOD Indiana Jones movie today

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

i have fear now.

[benefactor 3]

SPOILER-FREE FIRST IMPRESSION:

I’ve seen this movie and I honestly think it is not “Indiana Jones”. It is a movie with a guy who, sometimes, looks like Indy and with the occasional music from Indy series.

As a pure entertainment its fine to watch but it escapes from you completely as soon as you leave the theatre without any emotional response, which I

believe was not the case with Indy trilogy.

On the first sight the style of the movie looks like a good old-fashioned adventure, but it’s not. I had a strong feeling that I watched rather Stephen Sommers’ The Mummy flics or something like National Treasure but not Indiana Jones.

All action is waaay over the top absurd with a lot of unrealistic CGI effects here. Character relationship is just an exchange of artificial humorous lines with the kindergarten level of stupidity. The Artifact is dull, uninteresting and non-mysterious (thanks to G. Lucas). From the very first scene we already know everything about it and we’ll not get any new surprises. There is no awe to it, no feel of history behind it. There is no spiritual experience for Dr. Jones and no moral choices were made by him. Oh well… it is my first impression.

Its OK movie to watch but please don’t call it Indiana Jones.

[King Mark 3,631]

did you go into the theater hating it in advance?

[crocodile 8,000]

Just saw it. I didn't hate it in advance.

Some random thoughts...

I have to admit it's kind of a "hit and miss" with me. I enjoyed most of it and there are really good moments. But there are also "not so spectacualar"moments as well. The ending was somewhat underwhelming. I liked Kate Blanchett, but her character was underused. Harrison was fine, as was Karen Allen and the young one (whose name I don't remember). Ray Winstone character was forced.

The main problem of the film was the pacing. At one moment there was too much going on, and several minutes later - way too little.

The tone of the film is kind of a mix between TOD and LC. So if you like either of these, you will probably enjoy this one too. If you dislike this kind of humor, well, then you might hate KOTC.

The score wasn't really spectacular in the film. I haven't heard the CD yet so I can't compare, but there wasn't much unreleased music that I would miss, judging from the track titles alone. I spotted a WOTW reference in the scene with the pillar. Not a very thematic score, much like the prequels. Which isn't necesarilly a bad thing. Ark theme quotes were nice, if somewhat superficial.

It probably sounds negative, but it wasn't really so. As I said before, I liked the film. But I couldnt help feeling a bit... detached. But it probably has more to do with the whole anticipation thing than anything else. I felt the same about Batman Begins at first, but now its one of my favourite movies. So time will tell if it will be the same with KOTC...

So in the end its not really about a negative impression. It has more to do with the lack of a really good one.

I will probably see it again this week.

Karol

[benefactor 3]

did you go into the theater hating it in advance?

Not at all. I really like Indiana Jones trilogy and I hoped it would be the same experience as before. I was wrong.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,i hope It's not too bad

I accept the Prequels for what they are so I should be ok

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Lucas and Spielberg definitely forgot to inform the public that they have made a 50s action sci-fi with adventure overtones instead of a 30s adventure serial with supernatural overtones. And no, hinting at a sci-fi slant is not the same.

[benefactor 3]

Lucas and Spielberg definitely forgot to inform the public that they have made a 50s action sci-fi film instead of a 30s adventure serial

Yes, it's pure Sci-fi now instead of supernatural. And you know it from the prologue. Personally I feel that Sci-fi premise is wrong for Indiana Jones films but that was not main problem of the movie.

I just didn't felt it was Indiana Jones film.

It was like... Terminator 3 compared to the first two.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

It was like... Terminator 3 compared to the first two.

I disagree. T3 is to its series what The Last Crusade was to Indy. Skull is more Live Free or Die Hard.

Looking back on it, its not exactly constantly over the top, but when the absurdity comes, its in one huge dose. Granted, there are probably only 3 short moments but they do leave an impact considering how at odds they are with the more grounded action of the rest of the film. Its understandable to try and outdo the previous films, but it becomes problematic when it occasionally and momentarily sets its sights on The Mummy Returns and National Treasure. And amusingly, Ford's age has turned out to be the least of the film's problems.

It must be said however, that in the group of friends I watched Indy IV with, those who had only vague or no memories of the original trilogy enjoyed it immensely.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Okay, just saw it. Spoilers and some harsh criticism ahead, so choose for yourself.

First of all, the plot is not at all a problem with the film, not in the least. Watching an alien skeleton come to life and a flying spaceship is not at all different in terms of edgy or silly than having Indy cross an invisible bridge, meeting the Holy Grail and its keeper or having eternal souls coming out of the ark and take bad Nazis away.

The story itself is based on real artefacts and theories, and for someone who knows them well, it's a fantastic journey in story terms. It's an open mystery that governments like China, Russia or the USA have, or still are, very interested in paranormal abilities and how to use them.

So, what's wrong with the film? I can't put my finger on it. It's by no means a bad film. Seriously, it's not. It's fun, it's got great locations, good characters, and sometimes a pure Indy flair.

Now, from the top of my head, some things that needed to be cut drastically:

the opening sequence does its best to start the film in the most unfortunate way. First of all, Indy throwing gun powder into the air to find his way to the magnetic object is just too silly, maybe even cringeworthy. Just cut to Indy finding the damn thing! I'd rather have a minor plot point dangling in the air - how exactly does Indy know where the crate is - than such a questionable (how to be nice) scene; even if it's nice to hear Indy's discovery theme again.

In the very next sequence, I really thought Spielberg and Lucas completely lost their mind. No, really. I don't mean this funny or ironic, but dead serious. Alright, Indy was never really that much about realism, and we usually don't care how Indy escapes doom as long as it's entertaining.

But, I'm BEGGING you, Indiana Jones surviving a full-blown nuclear explosion by locking himself into a REFRIGERATOR?? And as if that wasn't bad enough, we see the fridge flying out of the nuclear mushroom, doing a few saltos on hard rocks to finally stop and reveal Indy unscathed?

What were they thinking? Indy doing effing Wil E. Coyote?

For an eventual DVD release, a well-meant suggestion: CUT that ENTIRE !CRAP! SEQUENCE!

Hmmm, there were a few other things I wanted to address ... oh yes!

There's one scene after the Jungle chase, not quite as mindbending as the fridge scene, but still pathetic. Mutt is swinging on lianes, and a group of pavians is following him in swinging fashion to attack Irina. Seriously, the Raiders March accompanying such BS really makes my a** ache.

And finally, the scene in which Marion drives over the cliff, lands in a tree, which not only bends far enough to softly let down the card, but also bounces back to sweep some Russians away ... another damn Coyote moment.

I could swear Lucas came up at least with some of these ideas. For Christ's sake, why is this bumbling moron still allowed to go rampant on famous franchises?

Few words on Mutt: not sure what all the hate is about, he's doing more than fine. As is Karen Allen, whose bickering with Indy is still priceless.

Hmmm, did I forget something ...? Of course, the score! Do I HAVE to say it? Do I? Alright then; Williams is known to forget things once in a while, and I'm not sure Williams knew exactly he was writing for KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, and not RAIDERS or LAST CRUSADE!

I'm saying this because there's a staggering amount of the Holy Grail theme in this movie. First in Indy's home, over a photo of Sean Connery, and then an extended, fully formed reading over the final scenes in Peru. Does that make any, and I mean ANY, sense? At all? Williams realised he was using the theme for the Grail, not the theme for "the Joneses", didn't he?

Imagine this, did Williams intend to use the family theme from Last Crusade for Indy's newly found family, but confused it with the Grail theme? Please tell me I'm fantasising, otherwise I can't take it.

Imagine the thematic, partially reused, mud this score contains: the Ark theme, a Nazi motif out of context, the Holy Grail theme, Marion's theme, "Flight from Peru", Mutt's theme, Irina's theme, Skull theme, Raiders March. And I'm not kidding when I say Mutt's theme gets less readings than Marion's theme. In between this awkward potpourri, there's non-thematic atmospheric scoring that, if you don't listen closely, doesn't leave any lasting impression, let alone a unique flair.

The music for the departing spaceship is simply too average and unmemorable for this rather gigantic happening. I was hoping for "The Departure" to accompany another scene, with the real finale being unreleased, but no, that's it.

And yes, the first part of the Jungle Chase is unreleased, but if my ears don't cheat me, the album cue is pretty much unedited. Sadly.

Let me tell you this: the album presentation is as good a listening experience as you'll get out of this score. There may be one or two cues missing, especially the very first one, which gave me high hopes for good unreleased music, but the soundtrack does include 80% of the score. At least.

There's a strange feeling in the air that no theme reaches a climax, or even a satisfying conclusion. That was my initial complaint with the score when I first heard it. Whenever there's a cataclysmic moment, you have either meaningless underscore or a statement of an old theme that is fascinating in its lacking context (*cough* Grail *cough*).

Then the final scene ... I never thought the Raiders March would accompany ... this. It would be too harsh to compare this to maybe the worst ending of a film ever, M:I 3. It has a twinkle in the eye, it has good music, and it has Harrison Ford's Indiana Jones instead of Tom Cruise's lame excuse for a special agent. And yet ... I wish they'd make another Indy just to console me with a proper, you know, Indy-ish, finale.

To say some good words at last, the final discovery of the "city" of gold was chilling, especially with the continuum fingerboard playing. There could be an element of real mystery if you aren't familiar with the plot elements already.

I really have to see the movie again to make further comments, but these are the first.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Somehow sci-fi doesnt carry as much weight as supernatural religious objects...

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Aren't the skulls supernatural enough?

[Romão 2,274]

I loved it

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Aren't the skulls supernatural enough?

I think the word I should have used is 'mystical'. And talking about the skull, don't you think

that the relevation of its powers so early on diminishes its impact somewhat? That, and how it seems to be a Swiss Army Knife of sorts...

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Glad you did. Even if it doesn't sound like it, I did enjoy the film. But it has some genuine crap moments.

I think the word I should have used is 'mystical'.

The skulls are both, mystical and supernatural, it's just dealt with in such a way that the sci-fi is predominant. And the sci-fi aspect is the most interesting part of these skulls.

Do you know anything about the real skulls?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Do you know anything about the real skulls?

Only a vague idea I must admit. I'm still grasping with the foray into scifi territory by an Indy film....

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Well, for one, it's true what Indy says in the film, that it poses our modern technology extreme, not to say impossible, tasks to comprehend how such a skull can be carved perfectly smoothly out of a single block.

I'll give you some further detail tomorrow, it was a midnight premiere here, and I'm going to bed.

[King Mark 3,631]

Why has every one seen it ?

Doesn't it open tomorrow?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Why has every one seen it ?

Doesn't it open tomorrow?

I'm more than 12 hours ahead of you geographically, and on top of that, a radio DJ friend of mine got me pre-release screening passes.

[King Mark 3,631]

why does everyone has friends with pre release passes

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

We were actually handing out left over passes 20mins from show time to any passerbys...since it was an invite only event and we had extra passes.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

I just arrived now, and all I can say is that, would I die this instant, I would die a really, very happy man.

The only thing that could make my smile even larger, has to do with lack of simetry, wouldn't you say, Mr. Santos? :cool:

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Anyway I think casual summer joyride fans will lap this film up, but hardcore Indy fans will probably have reservations.

Well, for one, it's true what Indy says in the film, that it poses our modern technology extreme, not to say impossible, tasks to comprehend how such a skull can be carved perfectly smoothly out of a single block.

I'll give you some further detail tomorrow, it was a midnight premiere here, and I'm going to bed.

Well, it probably didn't help that I am not as familiar with the story of the skulls as I was with the Ark and Grail.

[King Mark 3,631]

I just arrived now, and all I can say is that, would I die this instant, I would die a really, very happy man.

The only thing that could make my smile even larger, has to do with lack of simetry, wouldn't you say, Mr. Santos? :cool:

did you just see KotCS too?

did you get a free pass from burgerflippingman?

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Anyway I think casual summer joyride fans will lap this film up, but hardcore Indy fans will probably have reservations.

I'm an Indy fan, and have no reservations what so ever.

I just arrived now, and all I can say is that, would I die this instant, I would die a really, very happy man.

The only thing that could make my smile even larger, has to do with lack of simetry, wouldn't you say, Mr. Santos? :cool:

did you just see KotCS too?

did you get a free pass from burgerflippingman?

Don't be silly. The premiere took place at 00:15, thursday, May 22.

[King Mark 3,631]

oh,it's still May 21 around here

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

oh,it's still May 21 around here

Around here it's 4:38 am. I'm too damn excited, but I'll try to have some sleep now :cool:

[King Mark 3,631]

so you liked it?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

well he just said he can die happy...

did you get a free pass from burgerflippingman?

Miguel's location is around 8 hours behind Malaysia. :cool:

Anyway I think casual summer joyride fans will lap this film up, but hardcore Indy fans will probably have reservations.

I'm an Indy fan, and have no reservations what so ever.

I havent quite managed to decide whether 'different' this time is a good kind of 'different' like Temple of Doom was.

[Jay 37,346]

Sadly.

Let me tell you this: the album presentation is as good a listening experience as you'll get out of this score. There may be one or two cues missing, especially the very first one, which gave me high hopes for good unreleased music, but the soundtrack does include 80% of the score. At least.

The OST definitely does NOT contain at least 80% of the score! It doesn't even contain at least 80% of the highlights.

Say there's 100 minutes of score written for the film, and 50 of those are great and 50 of those are so-so, the OST contains about 40 of the bad minutes and 20 of the good minutes (plus 15 minutes of concert arrangements). Horribly constructed OST.

[Guest macrea]

Sounds like the original Return of the Jedi OST all over again. 120 minutes of score, a 40 minute album with only 20 minutes of music actually in the movie, and those consisting of some of the least interesting cues.

[King Mark 3,631]

Nobody has reported specific great unreleased highlights yet though.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Because apart from quotations of the old themes here and there, its hard to pick out the frenzied modern JW in the midst of the busy sound effects.

[King Mark 3,631]

It depends how good those quotations of old themes are.

seriously ,the Indy theme on Journey to Alkator is pure re-hash from Raiders/ToD

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I do like a bunch of the quotations, but they are mostly done in a delicate manner, not all out Goodbye Old Friend bombast. Apart from those, assuming we are looking for big chunks of unreleased music, only the opening action sequence and the first part of the Jungle Chase comes to mind for now.