The 2nd OFFICIAL Indy IV Score Thread

[crumbs 14,287]

Wise words. ^

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. This score is nothing short of a masterpiece.

I wish I had Marcus music training so I could articulate what I think of this score, but this isn't even have to do with my emotional attachement to Williams music. I find this score much more cerebral than the previous Indy scores, yet, it also is aparent to me, that this is Williams having great fun with his toy, the orchestra.

This is mature Indy music, and this is probably one of Williams scores for film that comes closer to his own personal "concert hall" music.

I really don't understand why so many complain... I'm sad to see that there are fewer and fewer reasons for me to hang out in this place

The truth is, when listening to this score, I was pretty much certain who would love it and who would be dissapointed.

This is a stellar effort by JW, this shows a composer on the very top of his craft, with an array of resources no other composer in Hollywood can clame.

The new themes are all fantastic, and with fantastic secondary melodies and B sections which Williams intervows masterfully throughout the score.

Two thumbs way up

well when you make a bold statement like that you need to be called on it, who do you think would like it, who did you think would be disappointed?

Tell us.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He knew Drax would be somewhat neutral towards it. Good guess, buddy!

[Ollie 1,059]

You guys crack me up, if Marion's theme wasn't included you would be complaining left and right about it.

I don't really see anywhere on this board where someone said the score sucks. I actually like it but it rates a solid B+.

It seems no one here has the balls (our female members will have to excuse the expression) to admit that Williams isn't always going to hit a homerun everytime he composes.

Of course I could be wrong because I don't feel like wading thru all the plagiarism/ classical bullgarbage posts in this thread.

[drwynn 0]

Of course I could be wrong because I don't feel like wading thru all the plagiarism/ classical bullgarbage posts in this thread.

Sorry about writing so many posts regarding the whole plagiarism issue (I was defending Williams); actually, this is pretty much the first time I've ever posted on this forum...sorry if my posts left a bad taste in your mouth. But, I feel very strongly about the issue and I just couldn't sit back, simply observe, and NOT contribute...especially given some of the things people were writing in accusation of Williams.

Also, in defense of one of the plagiarism issue posts; Marcus wrote a pretty amazing post regarding the topic. Definitely worth a read by anyone...no matter what their attitude is regarding that whole discussion. Cheers!

[Ollie 1,059]

I know you didn't start it and yes you did come to Williams' defense.

I'm not singling anyone out, god knows we've all had our share of silly/dumb useless posts.

I just felt it was un-neccesary in this thread.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

he's not criticizing you drwynn, he's making a comment on those who call it plagerism, what they wrote was bulls***.

Not your rebuttles which were well played.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Well, if you're unhappy, Williams may have yet another chance to win you over:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356282,00.html#2

Yes, that's right, a strong possibility of an Indiana Jones 5.

[drwynn 0]

he's not criticizing you drwynn, he's making a comment on those who call it plagerism, what they wrote was bulls***.

Not your rebuttles which were well played.

Well, I didn't necessarily think he was directing his comments at me...but, I just wanted to be sure and apologize "in advance". I didn't really want to tick anyone off on what was basically my first day of posting...aside from the guy I was arguing against, that is!

Before I go on wasting anymore bandwidth by continuing THIS particular discussion (my self-defense; which now comes off to me as sort of insecure and self-absorbed on my part)...let me try to redirect the conversation to Indy IV...

I think "The Great Eye" made a good point when he said to "give the score time to settle in". Initial reactions are great no matter what they are...and, obviously, your first impression won't change. But, there's also something to the idea of "letting the dust settle". I've often found that my attitude toward or opinion of certain scores has improved or worsened upon multiple listenings (is that even a real word?).

[Humpty Dumpty 0]

You say Williams should "give credit where credit is due". What do you expect Williams to do when he does such a thing? Call the work, "The Raiders March; a Hero's Theme That's a Variation on Richard Strauss' 'Don Juan'"?

I, personally, don't see much of a similarity between Don Juan and Indiana Jones. An additional example of lifting which is more obvious to me would be the similarity between the Luke and Leia theme and Make Our Garden Grow from Candide. Sure, it would sound kind of ridiculous to cite your sources in a piece of music in the a way researcher would in a scholarly paper, but just because it sounds more profound not to disclose from where the material came doesn't mean it isn't dishonest to take material from others and pass it off as your own. Also, people here keep accusing me of implying myself to think John Williams is a bad composer and that I would be "lowering my standards" by listening to him. I have repeatedly said I believe, very much on the contrary, John Williams to be a highly talented composer; it's just that he has this funny little habit sometimes. Perhaps the habit is not even intentional; it can be very easy to mistake an idea floating around in your head as your own when your memory of where you first heard the idea is a little weaker than the memory of the idea itself.

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

yay! my play.com order has been posted. 3-5 days delivery

quick! I thought they were going to send it the 19!

[Ollie 1,059]

If you defend Williams you're ok in my book.

[drwynn 0]

Well, if you're unhappy, Williams may have yet another chance to win you over:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356282,00.html#2

Yes, that's right, a strong possibility of an Indiana Jones 5.

Ugh. Shia LaBeouf as the lead and Indy as HIS sidekick? I knew I should've seen that idea as an eventual possibility, especially given the marketing trend for the new film; Shia's/Mutt's image seemingly everywhere that Indy's is. Do we really need to see Mutt's face right next to Indy's on the majority of marketing stuff?

My wife made a great observation yesterday while we were shopping for Indy-themed party supplies. She was sifting through the Indy plates, cups, napkins, and tablecloths...stacking them up in the cart, when she turned to me and asked;

"Isn't the new movie called 'Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull'?"

I replied, "Yeah, why?"

She answered, "Because...the way they're promoting the film makes me feel like it should be called, 'Mutt Williams and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull'."

[Henry B 50]

You say Williams should "give credit where credit is due". What do you expect Williams to do when he does such a thing? Call the work, "The Raiders March; a Hero's Theme That's a Variation on Richard Strauss' 'Don Juan'"?

I, personally, don't see much of a similarity between Don Juan and Indiana Jones. An additional example of lifting which is more obvious to me would be the similarity between the Luke and Leia theme and Make Our Garden Grow from Candide. Sure, it would sound kind of ridiculous to cite your sources in a piece of music in the a way researcher would in a scholarly paper, but just because it sounds more profound not to disclose from where the material came doesn't mean it isn't dishonest to take material from others and pass it off as your own. Also, people here keep accusing me of implying myself to think John Williams is a bad composer and that I would be "lowering my standards" by listening to him. I have repeatedly said I believe, very much on the contrary, John Williams to be a highly talented composer; it's just that he has this funny little habit sometimes. Perhaps the habit is not even intentional; it can be very easy to mistake an idea floating around in your head as your own when your memory of where you first heard the idea is a little weaker than the memory of the idea itself.

You've gotten to the crux of the matter.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

From that FNC article, I'm quite surprised Fox would have rejected an animated SW flick. SW and Warner Bros.? I wonder what tomorrow will bring??

[Frank Vincent 226]

I saw the soundtrack today at a record store (VanLeest) in Eindhoven, The Netherlands, but it was way too expansive: 22,99 euros. Also, the store took out the disc and put it behind the corner (a lot of Dutch stores do this), so that was another reason not to buy it.

[drwynn 0]

I, personally, don't see much of a similarity between Don Juan and Indiana Jones...Also, people here keep accusing me of implying myself to think John Williams is a bad composer and that I would be "lowering my standards" by listening to him. I have repeatedly said I believe, very much on the contrary, John Williams to be a highly talented composer...

I hate to continue this discussion...and I apologize to all of you who are growing tired of this discussion...but, I feel like I have to address two issues;

First, you may not see the similarity between Don Juan and Indy's Theme...but, it's there...if you CHOOSE to look for it. In the opening bars of the piece (bars 3 and 4, I believe)...there's a motif/melody that is written as follows; E-F#-G#-B natural...E-F#-G# (I think those are the notes...I'm going on music memory). The structure of that snippet of melody, along with the rhythmic pattern is VERY similar to the opening statement of Indy's theme. Now, the reason I wrote "if you choose to look for it" is because that basically addresses one of the issues I was trying to stress to you; you can find ANYTHING you want to in something...if you're LOOKING for it. Meaning; I could basically accuse any composer of "plagiarism" in some way, shape, or form if I wanted to because if I dissected their works...I'm sure I could make a case for the assertion...no matter how weak that case may be. If I wanted to be so nit-picky and anal about the issue, I could make the ridiculous allegation that any piece of music is "plagiarized" in some manner or another...but, I choose not to view music that way. You made an assertion earlier that part of the Superman score was basically Williams artistically profiting from lifting 5 notes from Death and Transfiguration (perhaps you didn't say 5 notes...maybe it was 7...I can't remember). But, if you're going to go over every piece of music like that, then you have to see the "plagiarism" in Indy's theme. If I wanted to see things the way you do, I would say, "Williams clearly stole the entire structure of the melody and rhythm of 'Indy's Theme' from Don Juan! The entire 'Raiders March' is similar in it's basic rhythmic patterns and melody construction to bars 3 and 4 of Don Juan...therefore, Williams' work in this example is unoriginal and plagiarized!" I COULD contend that every piece of music I ever hear is uncreative because I could surely find SOME similarity between it and a pre-existing piece...but, like I said, I don't like to view music in that light. You keep repeating the idea that Williams' "plagiarism" is worse than other composers before him because his "plagiarisms" are more obvious...but, whether it's obvious or not...it's still "plagiarism" as defined by your seeming standards. And, like I said, I could come up with facts, examples, and comparisons to render ALL music creatively impotent and empty...but, why live life in that manner? Like I said...I'm not going to change your mind...so, why do I keep arguing this point with you?

Second, I never accused you of implying that Williams was a bad composer or that you were "lowering your standards"; again, you're either misrespresnting my words and twisting the truth of what I wrote, or you're misunderstanding what I wrote. My exact words were, "I'm talking about people who couldn't even IMAGINE themselves listening to John Williams and would never 'lower themselves' to that sort of degrading standard"...and if you read that post more closely, you'll see I was referring to people I've encountered during my days at music school. Perhaps you weren't talking about me when you mentioned "people here"...but the words you chose were very similar to what I wrote...and since we've basically been directly debating each other, I assumed you were implying me when you wrote "people here".

Lastly...did you even READ Marcus' extremely well-written post on this topic? Because it doesn't seem like you did...and I highly recommend you do.

[Bowie 45]

Suggested listening order:

PART 1: Student of History (22:35)

Prologue: Call of the Crystal & Main Title (8:56)

02 Call of the Crystal

01 Raiders March

Mutt's Very First Adventure (6:49)

05 The Snake Pit

08 A Whirl Through Academe

Incarnations of Evil... (6:50)

05 The Spell of the Skull

04 Irina's Theme

(Intermission)

PART 2: The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (22:36)

To the Temple (6:20)

07 The Journey to Akator

09 "Return"

Nemeses (8:45)

10 The Jungle Chase

11 Orellana's Cradle

Uncovering the City (7:31)

14 Secret Doors and Scorpions

13 Hidden Treasure & The City of Gold

(Intermission)

PART 3: Ultimate Temptations (32:18)

Stealing the Skull (6:43)

14 Grave Robbers

16 Ants!

Struggle of Evil... (10:37)

15 Oxley's Dilemma

17 Temple Ruins & The Secret Revealed

Escape & End Credits (11:46)

18 The Departure

19 Finale

Epilogue: Mutt's Theme Reprise (3:12)

03 The Adventures of Mutt

[Romão 2,274]

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. This score is nothing short of a masterpiece.

I wish I had Marcus music training so I could articulate what I think of this score, but this isn't even have to do with my emotional attachement to Williams music. I find this score much more cerebral than the previous Indy scores, yet, it also is aparent to me, that this is Williams having great fun with his toy, the orchestra.

This is mature Indy music, and this is probably one of Williams scores for film that comes closer to his own personal "concert hall" music.

I really don't understand why so many complain... I'm sad to see that there are fewer and fewer reasons for me to hang out in this place

The truth is, when listening to this score, I was pretty much certain who would love it and who would be dissapointed.

This is a stellar effort by JW, this shows a composer on the very top of his craft, with an array of resources no other composer in Hollywood can clame.

The new themes are all fantastic, and with fantastic secondary melodies and B sections which Williams intervows masterfully throughout the score.

Two thumbs way up

well when you make a bold statement like that you need to be called on it, who do you think would like it, who did you think would be disappointed?

Tell us.

Like ti: Miguel, Scissorhands, Incannus, Marcus

Dissapointed: Marc, King Mark, Stefancos and you Joe.

There isn't any criticism implied here, only that this Indy score is written in such a way that from what I've been able to gather of people's musical tastes would please more to some that to others.

I could be wrong in my predicitons, of course.

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

I think i'll like it.

Regarding all has been said here.

[Ollie 1,059]

Dissapointed: Marc, King Mark, Stefancos and you Joe.

Marc? We haven't heard from Mr. Breathmask yet.

[King Mark 3,624]

Is he dead?

[Ollie 1,059]

He's probably got a life outside of the message board.

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

maybe ricard banned him for letting bootleg speaking

I hope not.

[Guest seventiesfilmnut]

Hi folks!

New in town

Just listening to the new Indy IV score, and felt compelled to redress the balance here somewhat. I've been very unimpressed with much of Mr Williams' output during the last 10-15 years (Harry Potter was a high point though), but I have to say I am thrilled with KOTCS! It really is the perfectmelding together of his vintage style and his more modern scoring. Already I think it's better than the Last Crusade - more orchestral colour - and it sounds like Mr Williams is having A BLAST with this score, as - I feel - he did with his Harry Potter scores - so good to hear him having fun again! Call of the Crystal is currently my favourite - very eerie! Love it - can't wait to see it in context of the movie, when - lets face it - much of the score will make more sense when seen in context. I still think Raiders is the best, closely followed by TOD (WHAT energy this score has!), follwed by KOTCS and then the rather turgid Last Crusade.

Personally I think it slots in perfectly with the other 3 Indy scores, and is possibly his best work for quite some time. I already like it, but I think this will definately be a 'grower' of an album.

Still can't believe we have a NEW Indy film, and a NEW freaking Indiana Jones score by Williams - life is good

- 7fn

P.S. Lucas..... NO!!!!!!! (regarding Indy/Mutt V film!!!!!!!!)

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. This score is nothing short of a masterpiece.

I wish I had Marcus music training so I could articulate what I think of this score, but this isn't even have to do with my emotional attachement to Williams music. I find this score much more cerebral than the previous Indy scores, yet, it also is aparent to me, that this is Williams having great fun with his toy, the orchestra.

This is mature Indy music, and this is probably one of Williams scores for film that comes closer to his own personal "concert hall" music.

I really don't understand why so many complain... I'm sad to see that there are fewer and fewer reasons for me to hang out in this place

The truth is, when listening to this score, I was pretty much certain who would love it and who would be dissapointed.

This is a stellar effort by JW, this shows a composer on the very top of his craft, with an array of resources no other composer in Hollywood can clame.

The new themes are all fantastic, and with fantastic secondary melodies and B sections which Williams intervows masterfully throughout the score.

Two thumbs way up

well when you make a bold statement like that you need to be called on it, who do you think would like it, who did you think would be disappointed?

Tell us.

Like ti: Miguel, Scissorhands, Incannus, Marcus

Dissapointed: Marc, King Mark, Stefancos and you Joe.

There isn't any criticism implied here, only that this Indy score is written in such a way that from what I've been able to gather of people's musical tastes would please more to some that to others.

I could be wrong in my predicitons, of course.

I don't see it as a criticism. I've not heard the score yet, tempted to listen but will wait till I have the jewel case in hand.

My only experience is in the snippets we've heard.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I find the album to be very lopsided. So much action material in the first half, then all this creepy mysterious music in the second half.

[Saxman717 22]

The fact is that real artists evolve and always go forward.

People are always saying these sort of things --- that artists mature and grow etc. The fact remains that it was this "80's style music" that made JW famous. Without his famous melodies and leitmotifs in the Star Wars OT, Superman, Jaws, Indiana Jones, ET etc., he would merely be in the same standing as Danny Elfman, James Horner etc.

It was that "80's style" that everyone loved and continues to love --- that is why his legacy is so strong --- at concerts, football games, academy awards, public events etc., his old themes are immediately recognizable and loved and always leaves you wanting to hear more or hum what you just heard for the next month.

It is similar to the original Star Wars trilogy vs. the prequels --- the original trilogy had loveable characters, actors/actresses who could at least marginally act, and used scale models that took months to create and looked lifelike in details. Since then, Lucas has "matured" and CGI technology has come into the picture. The mature Lucas put out a lifeless, cartoon-background/character-laden borefest. Granted, the mature Lucas is FAR worse than the mature JW, but it is another example of how older and more experienced does not necessarily equal better. Lucas had his prime. JW had his as well. They are both past it and sadly are not producing universally loveable things in the same vein that got them famous.

The fact that JW "outgrew" this style is NOT progress. You say he has moved on to a more refined, mature status. If that is so, then I will take the younger, less experienced JW any day of the week --- I certainly listen to his less mature scores much more often.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

there are going to be a bunch of people next week going geez that makes sense all of a sudden, some that wont, and some whose first impressions have already taken them to that place known as they just don't care.

[Ollie 1,059]

The fact is that real artists evolve and always go forward.

People are always saying these sort of things --- that artists mature and grow etc. The fact remains that it was this "80's style music" that made JW famous. Without his famous melodies and leitmotifs in the Star Wars OT, Superman, Jaws, Indiana Jones, ET etc., he would merely be in the same standing as Danny Elfman, James Horner etc.

It was that "80's style" that everyone loved and continues to love --- that is why his legacy is so strong --- at concerts, football games, academy awards, public events etc., his old themes are immediately recognizable and loved and always leaves you wanting to hear more or hum what you just heard for the next month.

It is similar to the original Star Wars trilogy vs. the prequels --- the original trilogy had loveable characters, actors/actresses who could at least marginally act, and used scale models that took months to create and looked lifelike in details. Since then, Lucas has "matured" and CGI technology has come into the picture. The mature Lucas put out a lifeless, cartoon-background/character-laden borefest. Granted, the mature Lucas is FAR worse than the mature JW, but it is another example of how older and more experienced does not necessarily equal better. Lucas had his prime. JW had his as well. They are both past it and sadly are not producing universally loveable things in the same vein that got them famous.

The fact that JW "outgrew" this style is NOT progress. You say he has moved on to a more refined, mature status. If that is so, then I will take the younger, less experienced JW any day of the week --- I certainly listen to his less mature scores much more often.

I agree 100%.

[Guest seventiesfilmnut]

"I find the album to be very lopsided. So much action material in the first half, then all this creepy mysterious music in the second half."

erm...... sounds JUST like Raiders.....

Oh well each to his/her own. I'm having a blast listening to it, but am only going to hear it one more time, then wait until the actual CD is in my hands when it (hopefully) arrives Tuesday (PLEASE Amazon!).

- 7FN

P.S. I'd just like to add I think Mr Williams is such a good composer, that his works always fit the film like a glove. This can work both ways, and has done ALOT during the last 10+ years. If the film is so-so, his scores will tend to reflect that. He's a composer who likes to sink his teeth into something (Jaws - haha!) and I sense he's doing just that with Indy IV. He actually has film to compose to, rather than lots of confused looking actors and green screens as in the prequals.

[Bowie 45]

I find the album to be very lopsided. So much action material in the first half, then all this creepy mysterious music in the second half.

Suggested Listening Order

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

"I find the album to be very lopsided. So much action material in the first half, then all this creepy mysterious music in the second half."

erm...... sounds JUST like Raiders.....

The second half of Raiders doesn't let me tune out.

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

there are going to be a bunch of people next week going geez that makes sense all of a sudden, some that wont, and some whose first impressions have already taken them to that place known as they just don't care.

well when you make a bold statement like that you need to be called on it, who do you think would like it, who did you think would be disappointed?

Tell us.

[Audax 0]

Whoa it's the album is also available in the Netherlands! I just bought my copy at Van Leest in Eindhoven. Whoohoo! What a great start of the weekend.

[Guest seventiesfilmnut]

Whoa it's the album is also available in the Netherlands! I just bought my copy at Van Leest in Eindhoven. Whoohoo! What a great start of the weekend.

Indeed it's a great start! I'm going to have to try hard not to listen to it too much before seeing the film next week. My God - less than a week until a new Indy film... seems hard to believe it's 19 years since the last one!

Happy Listening

[drwynn 0]

Wow...I thought some of the posts here were harsh...check out this opinion from one of the members at "The Raven Forums";

"It's very very very weak and unoriginal. Nothing memorable at all. Could be William's worst score, I'm serious. Nothing stands out. I didn't find myself humming anything afterwards, except the raider's march obviously.

I can listen to the entire ROTLA score from start to finish, but this one, no. Maybe the first and last tracks, and they're just variations of themes we've heard before. Howard Shore would have done a better job with this, yet I was rooting for williams to come up with something amazing. A real disappointment.

Sorry, but I have to be honest, even as a fanboy. "

Oucha, ma-goucha!

[Trent B 337]

A lot of people haven't been satisfied with Williams output for the last several years. A lot of people expected way too much of this score I think.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Well, truth ist, real artists do evolve.

If Williams stayed all the same from the 80s all the way to 2008, he would have had to repeat himself inevitably.

And yes, I have followed most of the lengthier posts about copying/rehashing/plagiarising/nodding/hinting/patting/paying hommage/paying respect/paying tribute, in other words, every instance of a half-witted, self-proclaimed connoisseur who couldn't distinguish the sounds of violin and viola spotting a thematic similarity on page 9, bar 46, in the third counterpoint of the woodwinds, or spotting two similar themes in 200 years of orchestral music - yes, I've followed that with a twitch in my left eye.

To finish the thought: had Williams remained the same all these decades, he'd now stand where Zimmer stands after a mere 8 years.

So, to those who badly need to hear the 80s Williams, listen to music of that age, for it holds as many legendary scores as no composer ever before has accomplished in a similar timeframe!

Don't cry for the past, the forth 80s Indy score you never had, cherish the fact that we are able to compare two scores for one series in two completely different phases of the composer's carreer.

Had Williams truly accomplished a return to his golden age sound, we'd probably never hear what a new-age Williams Indy score sounds like.

[Trent B 337]

Well said Fatty, too many people do live in the past.

[Saxman717 22]

Well, truth ist, real artists do evolve.

If Williams stayed all the same from the 80s all the way to 2008, he would have had to repeat himself inevitably.

Had Williams truly accomplished a return to his golden age sound, we'd probably never hear what a new-age Williams Indy score sounds like.

Come on, you all just don't get it, do you? WE DON'T WANT A NEW-AGE WILLIAMS INDY SCORE!! We love the Indy scores because of the way they were composed back in the 80's, just as we love the Star Wars scores because of the way they were composed in that same timeframe.

He went a full 15-20 years without repeating himself --- he came up with countless inspired, catchy themes and developed each of them to the fullest. THAT is what we love. THAT is what we want. We don't just want hidden thematic similarities that only a PhD in Music Composition could distinguish. That is not what made Williams famous. What made him famous was the Wagner-esque style of catchy themes and leitmotifs.

I find it absurd to suggest that he would end up repeating himself if he stuck with the style of film score composition he put out between 1975 and 1995. He certainly had trouble repeating himself in those 20 years. Then in the past 10-15 years since his disappointing "maturing", we've had 3 new Star Wars and 1 new Indiana Jones movie come out ---- and 3 lost opportunities (and we'll see about this score --- the jury is still out) to remain past glory.

Fear of repeating himself is a lousy excuse for transitioning away from the style that made him famous. He produced way too many unique and brilliant scores in that style to have such an excuse pinned on him.

[Quintus 5,399]

Well said Fatty, too many people do live in the past.

And we all know who they are, ahem...

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

Wow...I thought some of the posts here were harsh...check out this opinion from one of the members at "The Raven Forums";

"It's very very very weak and unoriginal. Nothing memorable at all. Could be William's worst score, I'm serious. Nothing stands out. I didn't find myself humming anything afterwards, except the raider's march obviously.

I can listen to the entire ROTLA score from start to finish, but this one, no. Maybe the first and last tracks, and they're just variations of themes we've heard before. Howard Shore would have done a better job with this, yet I was rooting for williams to come up with something amazing. A real disappointment.

Sorry, but I have to be honest, even as a fanboy. "

Oucha, ma-goucha!

Sounds like a LOTR movies fan (he does not know any other scores than LOTR for sure) that happens to like indiana Jones.

How can anyone say that other composer can do better at indiana jones than Williams is amazing.

Specially one-hit-wonder like Shore? Its like if i wanted Giacchino to score this movie.

[D_A_R_T_H 24]

Chronological order proposition - S P O I L E R !!!

01. Orellana's Cradle

02. The Spell of the Skull

03. The Adventures of Mutt

04. A Whirl Through Academe

05. The Departure

06. Grave Robbers

07. Hidden Treasure

08. Irina's Theme

09. Call of the Crystal

10. The Snake Pit

11. The Jungle Chase

12. Ants!

13. The Journey to Akator

14. Temple Ruins

15. Secret Doors

16. the City of Gold

17. Oxley's Dilemma

18. Scorpions

19. the Secret Revealed

20. "Return"

21. Finale

22. Raiders March (not in the movie)

any suggestions ?

[drwynn 0]

Well said Fatty, too many people do live in the past.

And we all know who they are, ahem...

Ahh...you must be referring to "Doc" Emmett L. Brown and Marty McFly; yes, they have done their share of living in the past. 1885 was the year, I believe. LOL!

Sorry...just trying to inject a little humor to relieve some of this tension. Also, trying to make sure that not all of my posts are too wordy or haughty!

[Henry B 50]

Chronological order proposition - S P O I L E R !!!

01. Orellana's Cradle

02. The Spell of the Skull

03. The Adventures of Mutt

04. A Whirl Through Academe

05. The Departure

06. Grave Robbers

07. Hidden Treasure

08. Irina's Theme

09. Call of the Crystal

10. The Snake Pit

11. The Jungle Chase

12. Ants!

13. The Journey to Akator

14. Temple Ruins

15. Secret Doors

16. the City of Gold

17. Oxley's Dilemma

18. Scorpions

19. the Secret Revealed

20. "Return"

21. Finale (9:20)

22. Raiders March (5:06) (not in the movie)

any suggestions ?

Yeah, uh, wait until you see the film to figure out the chronological order.

[RuBen_Kenobi 19]

So I just had a strange thought while listening to The Spell of the Skull... does anybody else think this could be the music for the opening of the movie? It sounds like it could play under the Paramount logo and first few scenes for a little while... then it seems to jump to other music, though.

I think "Snake Pit" is the opening, firstly because it comes after the three 'concert suites', and because it seems too early in the film and too joyous for it to be a significant plot moment... I suspect

Mutt is fooling around (similar to Indy's Very First Adventure), and the end is Indy helping rescue him or something... and getting angry at him or whatever...

...which opens up a private history lesson about the Ark, heard next in the "Spell of the Skull". The introduction of Irina's Theme here is probably a subtle exposition of "enemies" in general, Indy telling Mutt about those who will stop at nothing to get what they desire... and maybe we see a glimpse of Irina in this montage....

I´m not sure that the 2,3 and 4 tracks are concert suites... Why do you believe that, for the track titles??

Anyone else notice track 13 sounds just like "The Intersection Scene" from War of the Worlds?

Yes, it does

Hey can someone help me out? In the Finale, starting at about 4:00, what is this short new theme? It plays between Irina's and Mutt's themes...

It´s the Russian march

It has an Eastern-Europe flavour. Just like "The Terminal".

Yeah, I haven't heard this theme anywhere else in the soundtrack.

You can hear it in Irina´s theme (1,45), the spell of the skull (1,28) and in ants! (2,02) and in the finale (3,57 and 4,47, between these two is the "terminal" music, I think it is only Williams playing with the russian´ style). It is probably my favourite new theme of the soundtrack, I want more of it!!

Hey, everybody, listen to The Jungle Chase starting at 2:30!!! This sounds like the NBC football theme . . . at least at the beginning.

I have said before that it sounds more to me like Summon of the Heroes at 4,30 (always love that part)

Come on people, it is very soon to judge the soundtrack and compare with Williams´ other works, we have to wait a little and specially watch the film, and see how much music is left. But I have listened the soundtrack 4 or 5 times now, and the only thing I can say is that I don´t know how to rate it yeat, but I really like it.

-The Raiders march sounds like never (altougth i would prefer to listen 5 more minutes of new music).

-We have at least five new themes: two Crystal themes (the principal has grown a lot for me, it sound like a mix of the superman crystal motif and the ark one), Irina´s (good, not memorable), Mutt´s (very funny), the russian march (I love it!).

-I really enjoy the use of Indys´s theme in the score (a lot of times, usually very "soft", I mean the only heroic one is the "travel map" one in The Journey to Akator). Love the new arragment at the end of the finale, it´s a same that the track it is not complete.

-The action music is not amazing but it´s very funny to listen to it.

-Man, I even like "the mariachi" style! lol, seriusly I think it is very catchy.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Well...my favorite track is "Return"

Now you can reply and praise or banish me.

[ins 42]

Come on, you all just don't get it, do you? WE DON'T WANT A NEW-AGE WILLIAMS INDY SCORE!! We love the Indy scores because of the way they were composed back in the 80's, just as we love the Star Wars scores because of the way they were composed in that same timeframe.

Sorry but I have to say: "WE" is misplaced. Sure I love the old ones but somehow I managed to look for the bigger picture. I can live with less thematic driven material (which most ppl have a problem with) but therefore you get far more complex compositions and orchestration. No way Johny would have been able to score such material back in the 80's. If you don't like this "progress", well you can listen to the old ones any day

[odnurega1 0]

Fifth listen....I am starting to come around and change my mind on this score. I am really enjoying it. I love all the different things that Williams does during the score. I am going to stop listening to it for a bit, and hopefully just hear the score fresh in the theater.