The 2nd OFFICIAL Indy IV Score Thread

[ins 42]

Fifth listen....I am starting to come around and change my mind on this score. I am really enjoying it. I love all the different things that Williams does during the score. I am going to stop listening to it for a bit, and hopefully just hear the score fresh in the theater.

Hihi, exact same thought when I arrived at the third rerun

[Henry B 50]

Well...my favorite track is "Return"

Now you can reply and praise or banish me.

That may be the most powerful statement of the Crystal theme, but the rest is dull filler.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

It's not filler, it's Bernard Herrmann.

[King Mark 3,624]

yeah,I am discovering more to it now too

but some tracks are still useless :

Journey to Alkator

Orellaneas Craddle

Oxleys Dilemna

[Ollie 1,059]

Well...my favorite track is "Return"

Now you can reply and praise or banish me.

I like Mutt's theme, I like the Crystal theme, I really love the first 45 seconds of the Jungle Chase, I thought the string motif at the begining was the start of some fantastic chase motif/theme. I love how it goes to a forceful statement of Irina's theme. But it loses steam when Mutt's theme jumps in.

I love the reversal of instruments for the Raider's march in the end credits. Too bad it didn't continue or was used in more cues. I like Williams "mariachi" music, it's something different. A Whirl Through Academe has some nice moments.

[Quintus 5,399]

yeah,I am discovering more to it now too

but some tracks are still useless :

Journey to Alkator

Orellaneas Craddle

Oxleys Dilemna

Useless on your headphones (for now) perhaps, but almost certainly the complete opposite within the film itself.

[mcdaid72000 0]

If they do an Indiana Jones V I think they should start right away, but I doubt they will go ahead with the idea. George Lucas did intend 5 movie adventures for Indiana Jones, but I am not sure if Harrison Ford is willing to do another Indiana Jones film. I know everybody has read the review of what George Lucas has said by now on the main page of the JWFan Network. It would be awesome, but hard to say right now. Yesterday on Youtube I saw that they had the soundtrack to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Soundtrack, but when I click on it. It said "This was pulled for copyright reason by George Lucas people." Why havent they pulled Raiders of the Lost Ark Soundtrack or Temple of Doom Soundtrack. Why havent they pulled these for copyright reasons. Why is it illegal for KOTCS, but legal for ROTLA and TOD? Please explain. Thanks. John Williams next score is Lincoln right? This releases in 2009, so are we going to start a board on Lincoln next since Indiana Jones is about to be out. I hope I like what I hear from John Williams soundtrack. Its done by the Hollywood Studio Orchestra right or is it Done by LSO? Its under a different label too. Concord is the Label name. I hope the movie is good too. I plan to see it next week. Then we will probably have polls rating the score and movie after that. More polls to vote in ha ha. Some polls are good though.

[Saxman717 22]

I'm giving it a first listen and there are some nice parts ---- one thing I need to post about though, and wonder if others agree:

1:56 into Jungle Chase ---- is this not the most horrible editing that you've heard since the Phantom Menace Ultimate Soundtrack??? It hurts my ears every time I hear it. Did anyone else get jarred out of their listening experience when they reached this point? Whoever edited that part was smoking something heavy.....

[Henry B 50]

1:56 into Jungle Chase ---- is this not the most horrible editing that you've heard since the Phantom Menace Ultimate Soundtrack??? It hurts my ears every time I hear it. Did anyone else get jarred out of their listening experience when they reached this point? Whoever edited that part was smoking something heavy.....

You're right... It is pretty horrible.

[MissPadmé 17]

1:56 into Jungle Chase ---- is this not the most horrible editing that you've heard since the Phantom Menace Ultimate Soundtrack??? It hurts my ears every time I hear it. Did anyone else get jarred out of their listening experience when they reached this point? Whoever edited that part was smoking something heavy.....

You're right... It is pretty horrible.

Yes thats the only track I don't want to listen to.. man this scene/track is maybe about 8 minutes long and what do we get on that album?

[Josh500 1,615]

1:56 into Jungle Chase ---- is this not the most horrible editing that you've heard since the Phantom Menace Ultimate Soundtrack??? It hurts my ears every time I hear it. Did anyone else get jarred out of their listening experience when they reached this point? Whoever edited that part was smoking something heavy.....

You're right... It is pretty horrible.

Yes thats the only track I don't want to listen to.. man this scene/track is maybe about 8 minutes long and what do we get on that album?

What we DO have is pretty amazing, though . . . listen to the first minute or so and the last two minutes or so.

WOW!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I wonder what Steven Awalt thinks of this soundtrack?

[Hlao-roo 389]

This is the first major conversation thread Ricard has initiated in years.

[Miguel Andrade 1,260]

The fact is that real artists evolve and always go forward.

People are always saying these sort of things --- that artists mature and grow etc. The fact remains that it was this "80's style music" that made JW famous. Without his famous melodies and leitmotifs in the Star Wars OT, Superman, Jaws, Indiana Jones, ET etc., he would merely be in the same standing as Danny Elfman, James Horner etc.

It was that "80's style" that everyone loved and continues to love --- that is why his legacy is so strong --- at concerts, football games, academy awards, public events etc., his old themes are immediately recognizable and loved and always leaves you wanting to hear more or hum what you just heard for the next month.

It is similar to the original Star Wars trilogy vs. the prequels --- the original trilogy had loveable characters, actors/actresses who could at least marginally act, and used scale models that took months to create and looked lifelike in details. Since then, Lucas has "matured" and CGI technology has come into the picture. The mature Lucas put out a lifeless, cartoon-background/character-laden borefest. Granted, the mature Lucas is FAR worse than the mature JW, but it is another example of how older and more experienced does not necessarily equal better. Lucas had his prime. JW had his as well. They are both past it and sadly are not producing universally loveable things in the same vein that got them famous.

The fact that JW "outgrew" this style is NOT progress. You say he has moved on to a more refined, mature status. If that is so, then I will take the younger, less experienced JW any day of the week --- I certainly listen to his less mature scores much more often.

I'm sorry, have you just read what you've wrote?

Because it just makes no sense... so if you, and the vast majority, like something, it makes it superior?

You got to be kidding me...

Artists to mature, and do progress, and do write and paint and so on, in ways that challage us... Now, you rather stay safe on your corner with the stuff you know, that's your problem, but don't act pretensious in sugesting that since the mob prefers something, it is better than the rest.

[Miguel Andrade 1,260]

Wow...I thought some of the posts here were harsh...check out this opinion from one of the members at "The Raven Forums";

"It's very very very weak and unoriginal. Nothing memorable at all. Could be William's worst score, I'm serious. Nothing stands out. I didn't find myself humming anything afterwards, except the raider's march obviously.

I can listen to the entire ROTLA score from start to finish, but this one, no. Maybe the first and last tracks, and they're just variations of themes we've heard before. Howard Shore would have done a better job with this, yet I was rooting for williams to come up with something amazing. A real disappointment.

Sorry, but I have to be honest, even as a fanboy. "

Oucha, ma-goucha!

A lot of people haven't been satisfied with Williams output for the last several years. A lot of people expected way too much of this score I think.

A lot of people expected hummable tunes and a lot of people are deaf idiots!

[Trent B 337]

A lot of people expected hummable tunes and a lot of people are deaf idiots!

For once I agree with you on something.

[Miguel Andrade 1,260]

Well, truth ist, real artists do evolve.

If Williams stayed all the same from the 80s all the way to 2008, he would have had to repeat himself inevitably.

Had Williams truly accomplished a return to his golden age sound, we'd probably never hear what a new-age Williams Indy score sounds like.

Come on, you all just don't get it, do you? WE DON'T WANT A NEW-AGE WILLIAMS INDY SCORE!! We love the Indy scores because of the way they were composed back in the 80's, just as we love the Star Wars scores because of the way they were composed in that same timeframe.

He went a full 15-20 years without repeating himself --- he came up with countless inspired, catchy themes and developed each of them to the fullest. THAT is what we love. THAT is what we want. We don't just want hidden thematic similarities that only a PhD in Music Composition could distinguish. That is not what made Williams famous. What made him famous was the Wagner-esque style of catchy themes and leitmotifs.

I find it absurd to suggest that he would end up repeating himself if he stuck with the style of film score composition he put out between 1975 and 1995. He certainly had trouble repeating himself in those 20 years. Then in the past 10-15 years since his disappointing "maturing", we've had 3 new Star Wars and 1 new Indiana Jones movie come out ---- and 3 lost opportunities (and we'll see about this score --- the jury is still out) to remain past glory.

Fear of repeating himself is a lousy excuse for transitioning away from the style that made him famous. He produced way too many unique and brilliant scores in that style to have such an excuse pinned on him.

You really got to be kidding me...

I do not want a new-age (as you call it) Williams Indy score. If I want to listen to old Indy score, I listen to Raider, Temple of Doom or Last Crusade.

And you don't need a PhD. I don't have one -- at least, not in music -- and I can find tunes on War of the Worlds... Just seat there and listen to the music, and if it is great music, as this is, you'll find the themes, motifs, whatever you need, there waiting for you.

And Williams needs no excuses to be himself... come on, he is being just that, himself! He could copy himself, but he rather reveal artisitc integrety -- or maybe that's a concept most people here seem to be having trouble with.

[Miguel Andrade 1,260]

Fifth listen....I am starting to come around and change my mind on this score. I am really enjoying it. I love all the different things that Williams does during the score. I am going to stop listening to it for a bit, and hopefully just hear the score fresh in the theater.

Well, as soon as I listened to the first notes, I was grabbed to the score.

For some reason, I'm always able to conect right away with Williams music. But I do understand that his later style, more concert hall oriented might end up being a little more demanding on the listener, and may require more listens untill it grows on most listeners...

Anyway, I've been listening to this nonstop, only with a few pauses for some other music that arrived at my hands (new Michael Torke CD ), so I really can't say how many times I've really listened to it... but surely a dozen times

[MissPadmé 17]

A lot of people expected hummable tunes and a lot of people are deaf idiots!

Oh man.. that's just great! Damn, I wish I had written that

[scissorhands 16]

Come on, you all just don't get it, do you? WE DON'T WANT A NEW-AGE WILLIAMS INDY SCORE!! We love the Indy scores because of the way they were composed back in the 80's, just as we love the Star Wars scores because of the way they were composed in that same timeframe.

He went a full 15-20 years without repeating himself --- he came up with countless inspired, catchy themes and developed each of them to the fullest. THAT is what we love. THAT is what we want. We don't just want hidden thematic similarities that only a PhD in Music Composition could distinguish. That is not what made Williams famous. What made him famous was the Wagner-esque style of catchy themes and leitmotifs.

I find it absurd to suggest that he would end up repeating himself if he stuck with the style of film score composition he put out between 1975 and 1995. He certainly had trouble repeating himself in those 20 years. Then in the past 10-15 years since his disappointing "maturing", we've had 3 new Star Wars and 1 new Indiana Jones movie come out ---- and 3 lost opportunities (and we'll see about this score --- the jury is still out) to remain past glory.

Fear of repeating himself is a lousy excuse for transitioning away from the style that made him famous. He produced way too many unique and brilliant scores in that style to have such an excuse pinned on him.

First off, who is "we"? Don't include me (and many other people) in "we".

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Wagner-esque style??? Williams??? That's hilarious.

And what is a catchy theme? Is it (the "catchiness") necessary for being good music? Is your post intended to be a joke or something serious?

[pete 902]

Yesterday on Youtube I saw that they had the soundtrack to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Soundtrack, but when I click on it. It said "This was pulled for copyright reason by George Lucas people." Why havent they pulled Raiders of the Lost Ark Soundtrack or Temple of Doom Soundtrack. Why havent they pulled these for copyright reasons. Why is it illegal for KOTCS, but legal for ROTLA and TOD? Please explain.

It's not that one's legal and one isn't, I'm sure it's just that they are more concerned about protecting a new work that hasn't had a commercial release yet.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

He went a full 15-20 years without repeating himself

Yes, so why should he start with it now by emulating a style he's lost naturally over the course of the past 20 years? If this score sounded exactly like Raiders, or ToD, or Last Crusade, what would be the point of that?

Does KOTCS not have strong leitmotifs? Irina's Theme is pure thematic movie magic, my personal criticism is just that they aren't used as effectively as they could have been.

[D_A_R_T_H 24]

SPOILER !

(the order is not definitive but at 70-80% near of the good order

im n'ot sure for *)

PART 1 - ZONE 51

01. Orellana's Cradle (in the Warehouse : the artefact)

02. The Spell of the Skull (in the Warehouse : the map)

PART 2 - MEETING MUTT

03. The Adventures of Mutt

04. A Whirl Through Academe

05. The Departure

PART 3 : THE CONQUISTADOR'S GRAVE

06. Grave Robbers (and the Nazca Warriors)

07. Hidden Treasure (finding the Skull)

PART 4 : TRAPED BY RUSSIAN

08. Irina's Theme *

09. Call of the Crystal (Hypnotic Brainwash )

PART 5 : ESCAPE / Finding Atakor

10. The Snake Pit *

11. The Jungle Chase

12. Ants!

13. The Journey to Akator

PART 6 : THE LOST TEMPLE

14. Temple Ruins (and the great puzzle)

15. Secret Doors

PART 7 : THE CITY OF GOLD

16. the City of Gold (and city of gods)

17. Oxley's Dilemma *

18. Scorpions *

PART 8 : THE THRONE ROOM

19. the Secret Revealed (fortune and glory)

PART 9 : THE POWER WITHIN / IRINA'S END

20. "Return" (the power of a noble heart - the gift of the graal)

21. Finale (escape from the lost city)

PART 10 : BONUS TRACK

22. Raiders March (not in the movie)

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

... this is indicating you've seen the film?

Btw, it's NaZca.

[Jacck 23]

I'm giving it a first listen and there are some nice parts ---- one thing I need to post about though, and wonder if others agree:

1:56 into Jungle Chase ---- is this not the most horrible editing that you've heard since the Phantom Menace Ultimate Soundtrack??? It hurts my ears every time I hear it. Did anyone else get jarred out of their listening experience when they reached this point? Whoever edited that part was smoking something heavy.....

I'm glad somebody mentioned that. The levels don't even match comfortably.. Suddenly the track just becomes massively loud.

I'm guessing that The Jungle Chase, as it is presented on the Soundtrack, is pretty much a hacked up version of the cue, barely representing what Williams wrote for the actual film. Although I do love the introduction and the first minute or so, but it looses momentum pretty soon afterwards.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Well, if that is a compositional choice, the naysayers may have a point.

[Henry B 50]

New interview with Williams; Williams speculates as to how he wrote Raiders.

[Limbonaut 2]

Dang, I was going to interview!

I'm glad there's an explanation to why Mutt's theme is more swashbuckling because when you look at Shia's character you think "West Side Story"!

A lot of people expected hummable tunes and a lot of people are deaf idiots!

I can't get "Irina's Theme" out of my head!

[MissPadmé 17]

New interview with Williams; Williams speculates as to how he wrote Raiders.

Johnny looks good Mesa thinks

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Aren't "Part 1" and "Part 2" the same?

[standbyfax 0]

Aren't "Part 1" and "Part 2" the same?

The end of Part 2 he talks about Irina's Theme, but up to that they are the same. Just watch part 2.

[Bowie 45]

yeah,I am discovering more to it now too

but some tracks are still useless :

Journey to Alkator

Orellaneas Craddle

Oxleys Dilemna

????

Oxley's Dilemma is a highlight and is thematic from start to finish? It's wonderful and haunting? Wow. Even Orellana's Cradle is packed with Crystal Theme development and ends with such an interesting take on Indy's theme... Ohwell.

And how can you not love Journey to Akator?!

[Jacck 23]

I'm glad there's an explanation to why Mutt's theme is more swashbuckling because when you look at Shia's character you think "West Side Story"!

You do?

[MrScratch 294]

Johnny looks good Mesa thinks

He grew testicles from his neck.

[Hunter 0]

On the official indiana jones site the soundtrack page is now available. I don't know if anyone else has posted this yet.

[Vaderbait1 1]

For those of you who aren't so fond of Jungle Chase, just imagine how awesome a full, complete track that doesn't have the rushed editing and is allowed to breath.

I can only imagine how those already-cool-but-shortlived moments would sound without that one edit in particular. So powerful.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

Alright I gave in.

Call of the Crystal

[King Mark 3,624]

For those of you who aren't so fond of Jungle Chase, just imagine how awesome a full, complete track that doesn't have the rushed editing and is allowed to breath.

I can only imagine how those already-cool-but-shortlived moments would sound without that one edit in particular. So powerful.

I have a feeling we'll be screaming in horror at the album assembly once we see the film

[Vaderbait1 1]

For those of you who aren't so fond of Jungle Chase, just imagine how awesome a full, complete track that doesn't have the rushed editing and is allowed to breath.

I can only imagine how those already-cool-but-shortlived moments would sound without that one edit in particular. So powerful.

I have a feeling we'll be screaming in horror at the album assembly once we see the film

Me, too. But again, we probably should have expected that. I sort of did.

[Saxman717 22]

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Wagner-esque style??? Williams??? That's hilarious.

And what is a catchy theme? Is it (the "catchiness") necessary for being good music? Is your post intended to be a joke or something serious?

If you don't know what Wagner-esque style is and how that relates to Williams, then you certainly won't know what I mean. His most famous works are in that style --- heavy on the development of themes and leitmotifs. His most famous scores are in this style, most notably the Star Wars scores.

By the way, I don't like the condescending tone of your post.

[Saxman717 22]

For those of you who aren't so fond of Jungle Chase, just imagine how awesome a full, complete track that doesn't have the rushed editing and is allowed to breath.

I can only imagine how those already-cool-but-shortlived moments would sound without that one edit in particular. So powerful.

Yes --- there's some great potential in there considering that it's almost certainly hacked up at this point. The full version is probably awesome and harkens back to the Desert Chase track. Can't wait to hear the full version --- hopefully it will be complete in the film!

[Bowie 45]

Wow anyone else notice the "Call" motif (C, --- F# - C' -) is in the trombones at about 2:55-3:10 in "Jungle Chase"...?

... except Williams adds a few extra notes between (C, dadadada F# - C' -).

[Josh500 1,615]

Does anyone else notice the absense of Kenny W.??? I think Ramiro Belgardt may have become our next enemy--he does indeed a poor job of editing the soundtrack album. Still, The Jungle Chase is one of my favorite tracks so far: the first minute is absolutely mind-blowing. You can picture the scene so well listening to the music of Indy and his friends in a jeep, being followed by the Russian soldiers . . . WOW!!!

A few comments on the video:

Yeah, I think JW looks pretty great! Looks a bit older, of course, but still in very good fettle. Go, Johnny!

I love how he says Cate Blan-CHAT!!! "A hommage to the great 1940's villain-esses"!

Mutt's theme makes more sense to me now . . . that's what he had in mind. Robin Hood!

P.S. BTW, a new TV spot is online at the official site. Indy says to Mutt, "Kid, it's just a story!"

[mahler3 478]

Need to give it a couple more listens today before I reach a verdict - the new Raiders March recording is a great crisp recording as others have mentioned but I have to admit i'm not keen on the harsh French horn sound near the closing statement and the flutes seems to be mixed very loudly at some intervals - anybody else notice this?

[Josh500 1,615]

I have to admit i'm not keen on the harsh French horn sound near the closing statement and the flutes seems to be mixed very loudly at some intervals - anybody else notice this?

Yeah, and that's what I love about this recording. Give it a couple more listens...!

[King Mark 3,624]

How about making an edit using the last part of the Finale

[mahler3 478]

How about making an edit using the last part of the Finale

Not a bad idea squire! Thanks for the PM by the way!

[Marcus 390]

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Wagner-esque style??? Williams??? That's hilarious.

And what is a catchy theme? Is it (the "catchiness") necessary for being good music? Is your post intended to be a joke or something serious?

If you don't know what Wagner-esque style is and how that relates to Williams, then you certainly won't know what I mean. His most famous works are in that style --- heavy on the development of themes and leitmotifs. His most famous scores are in this style, most notably the Star Wars scores.

By the way, I don't like the condescending tone of your post.

I'm sorry, Scissorhands is simply pointing out that to call Williams's style "Wagner-esque" merely for its reliance on leitmotiivic development, is shallow and not very pertinent or even correct.

"Leitmotif" is far too general a device to be called Wagnerian, although greatly associated with him.

But a musical style has to do with so much more than this, as I'm sure you'll know and agree.

Harmonically, melodically, orchestrationally, even formally (as in matters of construction), Williams and Wagner are very, very different.

This much should be obvious.

And forgive me, but your posts regarding the new Indy soundtrack, and your comments on what "we all" expect and want, seem a little shy of convincing, or even very well thought out. I have no doubt that you prefer the scores you've lived with and loved, and you are not alone in your nostalgia (although I don't share it), but your reasoning as far as style and artistic development, and so on, leaves a lot to be desired.

And Scissorhands, as I'm sure you will find, is one of the most musically, and music-historically, literate and aware posters on this board, and it takes a good deal of ignorance to awaken something even remotely approaching a condescending tone from him.

You've earned it, so to speak.

[Incanus 5,713]

The Williams interview sheds light on the musical ideas of the score very nicely His reasoning can be clearly heard in his themes even without explanation.

Mutt's theme is a a classical swashbuckling theme with quick moves and very glowing orchestrations and fast passages, very Robin Hood like as Williams himself seems to identify this piece.

Irina's theme is without a doubt a continuation of the wonderfully noirish music from TLC which Williams had an opporturnity to write for some scenes in that film. Here he takes even more darkly romantic and openly melodramatic tone and creates an absolutely wonderful homage to that style of music.

And Williams seems to have scored Marion's scene with her theme but I think for the sake of presenting the new music and the new themes must have left these cues off the album. But at least we can hear them in the film.

[Miguel Andrade 1,260]

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Wagner-esque style??? Williams??? That's hilarious.

And what is a catchy theme? Is it (the "catchiness") necessary for being good music? Is your post intended to be a joke or something serious?

If you don't know what Wagner-esque style is and how that relates to Williams, then you certainly won't know what I mean. His most famous works are in that style --- heavy on the development of themes and leitmotifs. His most famous scores are in this style, most notably the Star Wars scores.

By the way, I don't like the condescending tone of your post.

Well, I too find your post, sugesting that "we all" prefer the earlier Indy scores, condescending in tone...