The 2nd OFFICIAL Indy IV Score Thread

[Joe Brausam 214]

For all those who have not heard Death and Transfiguration, listen to this video at around 3:53 to hear the theme in question...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cwQ85egzNUY&feature=related

[King Mark 3,630]

I'll be listening to it a lot before the film so I can spot the amazing cues left off the album instantly

I think a huge chunk of the Finale (before the end Credits start) is missing from the album

[drwynn 0]

So, how 'bout that Indy 4, huh? Nice to finally be able to listen to that, isn't it?

I wish I could...I don't have the score yet; only been able to hear "samples" online.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

*Begins a slow clap...*

*Sniffle*

*Wipes tear from eye...*

If that response is for me...and it's sincere...then, thank you.

I just got off the phone with my father (who is also a "clasically trained" musician/composer/pianist)...he and I were discussing the "claim" about Williams being a "plagiarist". He's not nearly the Williams fan I am; he does respect Williams, but he'd rather listen to Bartok or Beethoven before Williams, whereas I am the opposite. Anyways, when it comes to this claim, he always just laughs it off and makes the same assertion I did. To say Williams is a "plagiarist" is to call nearly every great composer in history the same.

I thank you, and if I may steal from the GE, begins a slow clap, sniffle, wipes tear from eye, pushes humpty dumpty off the off.

[Quintus 5,399]

*Begins a slow clap...*

*Sniffle*

*Wipes tear from eye...*

If that response is for me...and it's sincere...then, thank you.

Yes, it was sincere. I enjoyed your post immensely.

I'll be listening to it a lot before the film so I can spot the amazing cues left off the album instantly

I think a huge chunk of the Finale (before the end Credits start) is missing from the album

Lol you crack me up! There is only ONE king mark in this world!

[Henry B 50]

I'll be listening to it a lot before the film so I can spot the amazing cues left off the album instantly

I think a huge chunk of the Finale (before the end Credits start) is missing from the album

I really hope "Call of the Crystal" is actually part of the score's climax (say, between "Temple Ruins and the Secret Revealed" and "Departure"). Because the climax is really weak as it is.

[Jacob 0]

*Begins a slow clap...*

*Sniffle*

*Wipes tear from eye...*

If that response is for me...and it's sincere...then, thank you.

Yes, it was sincere. I enjoyed your post immensely.

I did as well. I hope you'll continue posting here.

[Quintus 5,399]

Anyway my initial impressions: It's a very good, entertaining score, but far from the vintage Williams I was hoping for. It has its highlights and it has its lowlights. Having said that, this basic opinion is subject to revision via the passage of time. The factors which are likely to change how I feel about the score in say, one year, are these:

A) The score with the film. Understanding the context of the score is hugely important to me.

B) The film itself. If I don't like the film, I will have no incentive to subconsciously train my ear to the score upon multiple viewings, which is what happens with any beloved film. It is lovely by-product of any great movie. If I fall in love with the film, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I will grow to love the entire score as I do the others in the series. For me, when a film is great, score and film are one.

If this film surprises most and turns out pretty damn good, then I think the score will swiftly follow suit.

[drwynn 0]

Thanks, J Dan. I'll try to throw in my two cents every now and then...

Cheers!

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I've given the album a full listen, and my initial opinion is: very good, but definitely nowhere near great.

I don't know what it is exactly - all four primary themes are constantly quoted, but somehow, it's missing something. Maybe Iriana's theme doesn't quite work intermingled in the action sequences, and there seem to be many periods where not a hell of a lot actually happens (I put The Snake Pit on at work, and after a few minutes forgot I was listening to music - it failed to keep my attention).

Plus Iriana's theme - I just don't think it's that great TBH, a little too formulaic.

Although this will probably improve, especially once I've seen the film next week, my initial rating is 7/10

[odnurega1 0]

Wow, did I start all this?

[Quintus 5,399]

I've given the album a full listen, and my initial opinion is: very good, but definitely nowhere near great.

I don't know what it is exactly - all four primary themes are constantly quoted, but somehow, it's missing something.

For me the missing ingredient is a strong thematic mystical element, as heard in Raiders and Crusade. Doom more than made up for the lack of that aspect with Parade of the Slave Children of course.

I haven't seen the film yet, so again, this view may change over time.

TGE - Who misses the days when JW often presented his strongest sub themes with full blown concert arrangements. None of the new thematic material in Indy IV could justify anything as bold.

Wow, did I start all this?

What exactly?

Because the answer is probably no.

[odnurega1 0]

Wow, did I start all this?

What exactly?

Because the answer is probably no.

The arguments regarding John Williams alleged plagariasm.

[Quintus 5,399]

Wow, did I start all this?

What exactly?

Because the answer is probably no.

The arguments regarding John Williams alleged plagariasm.

Those arguments are old old old! Way older than your humble post!

[odnurega1 0]

Wow, did I start all this?

What exactly?

Because the answer is probably no.

The arguments regarding John Williams alleged plagariasm.

Those arguments are old old old! Way older than your humble post!

Well, thats a relief. The tension was becoming apparent.

[Henry B 50]

I'm analyzing "The Raiders March" and "Finale" and I've discovered that a lot of the material comes from the same recording. It looks like some micro edits were done to incorporate additional recordings only for the transitions and for the new ending of "Finale."

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Finale really does sound like a copy/paste track - most of the transitions sound a little forced to me, particularly the march to Iriana transition.

I think it's going to take a film viewing to appreciate this score more - I'm not warming to it as much as I hoped to. Don't get me wrong, there are some excellent bits, but overall, it's fallen short of my expectations unfortunately.

In fact, I'm finding tracks 11-16 a little dull right now. Pity.

[Quintus 5,399]

Finale really does sound like a copy/paste track - most of the transitions sound a little forced to me.

Welcome to the world of how modern film scores are produced. Only an experienced film score enthusiast would notice the edits, or manufacturing mentioned here.

Its really no big deal.

[King Mark 3,630]

Can someone check the ending of Finale on the real c.d.?I have a feeling there is a pressing error and the track cuts off on the c.d. too.

[Josh500 1,615]

A JW score is stunningly complex (but that's what makes it sooo good) . . . you can't judge it after listening to it twice or three times.

Watch the movie twice, listen to the score a dozen times straight through, and you'll start to see that this is another JW masterpiece. I think it's amazingly good and I've just listened to it once . . . especially the action cues, the fun cues, and Irina and Mutt's themes (so basically everything!). Wait and you'll see. Don't be too rash in your judgments!

[Quintus 5,399]

I doubt it. Quality control would've picked up on it ages ago.

[Ollie 1,059]

Can someone check the ending of Finale on the real c.d.?I have a feeling there is a pressing error and the track cuts off on the c.d. too.

Now what makes you think that?

[King Mark 3,630]

I am getting very alarmed that were in for a mindblowing Finale in the film instead of this hack job on the c.d.

big question :Why are there so many subdued underscore cues on the c.d.? That "editor" dude likes them better than the thematic material,or that is really the best music available?

It's not possible that Marion's theme only shows up in the Finale either .And there's not much of Mutt's theme in the score either.

Can someone check the ending of Finale on the real c.d.?I have a feeling there is a pressing error and the track cuts off on the c.d. too.

Now what makes you think that?

Never mind.I misread track times

[Josh500 1,615]

I doubt it. Quality control would've picked up on it ages ago.

Exactly.

Or maybe there's a pressing error only on the batch of copies meant for Australia.

[John Crichton 4]

Because the climax is really weak as it is.

I thought the same thing about RotS until I saw the movie. You never know what's been cut out of the CD.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hey can someone help me out? In the Finale, starting at about 4:00, what is this short new theme? It plays between Irina's and Mutt's themes...

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I am getting very alarmed that were in for a mindblowing Finale in the film instead of this hack job on the c.d.

big question :Why are there so many subdued underscore cues on the c.d.? That "editor" dude likes them better than the thematic material,or that is really the best music available?

It's not possible that Marion's theme only shows up in the Finale either .And there's not much of Mutt's theme in the score either.

I think we've seen more than enough evidence in the past that Williams' album editor doesn't give a sh!t about presenting proper finales.

But Indy4 was right - we need to see the film before making any rash judgements, including me

[ins 42]

I wounder why The Jungle Chase contains a cut and paste job of Mutt's theme (seems tracked from the concert arrangement, or does someone noticed a difference? ). If you cut out form 1:01 to 1:37 the tracks works far more powerful (to me at least).

[Richard Penna 3,679]

I think there might be an edit when Mutt's theme comes in - the transition from Iriana just doesn't sound natural. And since when has a Williams album ever presented an action cue like this exactly as it appeared in the film?

richuk - fully expecting a long list of cues he's overlooked.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hey can someone help me out? In the Finale, starting at about 4:00, what is this short new theme? It plays between Irina's and Mutt's themes...

[Henry B 50]

Josh, how should we know? It seems to be exactly what you say it is: a short new theme.

[Josh500 1,615]

Josh, how should we know? It seems to be exactly what you say it is: a short new theme.

Hmmm, I thought maybe I missed this theme in one of the earlier tracks...

But this section sure sounds great!

P.S. I mean the section played by the flute and accordion starting at 4:14!!!

[scissorhands 16]

It has an Eastern-Europe flavour. Just like "The Terminal".

Yeah, I haven't heard this theme anywhere else in the soundtrack.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hmmmm, yeah, Russian, very likely! I love it!!!

[tpigeon 3]

Is anyone else becoming increasingly annoyed with Mutt's theme?

Ted

[scissorhands 16]

Probably it will be more expanded in the film.

By the way, anyone else noticed the "Gaudeamus Igitur" theme interpolated in track 8 "A Whirl Through Academe"?

[Josh500 1,615]

Is anyone else becoming increasingly annoyed with Mutt's theme?

Ted

Maybe Mutt's character IS annoying. So JW composed an annoying melody for him...

[ins 42]

Hidden Treasure an the City of Gold: 3:22 maybe Williams was a little confused on which project he is working?

But it sounds so brilliant great and pure jw'ish!

[Romão 2,274]

Is anyone else becoming increasingly annoyed with Mutt's theme?

Ted

It's a lovely theme

[Jim Ware 526]

With regard to the album assembly, Ramiro Belgardt also assembled the album for Revenge of the Sith. Make of that what you will.

[Josh500 1,615]

I miss Kenny W.!!!

[John Crichton 4]

With regard to the album assembly, Ramiro Belgardt also assembled the album for Revenge of the Sith. Make of that what you will.

It means this thing's probably hacked to pieces and missing many crucial cues, particularly from the last part of the movie.

[drwynn 0]

Hey can someone help me out? In the Finale, starting at about 4:00, what is this short new theme? It plays between Irina's and Mutt's themes...

Don't know if anyone's already said this yet...if they have, my most sincere apologies are due to everyone.

But...the theme in the End Credits heard at 4:00 also appears in abbreviated/interrupted forms in other places in the score; most notably during the "Ants!" track. I'm guessing it's the Russian Soldiers' theme.

[Henry B 50]

Oh, yeah... It's part of Irina's theme.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hey can someone help me out? In the Finale, starting at about 4:00, what is this short new theme? It plays between Irina's and Mutt's themes...

Don't know if anyone's already said this yet...if they have, my most sincere apologies are due to everyone.

But...the theme in the End Credits heard at 4:00 also appears in abbreviated/interrupted forms in other places in the score; most notably during the "Ants!" track. I'm guessing it's the Russian Soldiers' theme.

Actually I was talking about the short section starting at 4:14 in Finale! Played by the accordion and flutes, I belive...

[Richard Penna 3,679]

Hidden Treasure an the City of Gold: 3:22 maybe Williams was a little confused on which project he is working?

But it sounds so brilliant great and pure jw'ish!

It's copied and pasted pretty much.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

With regard to the album assembly, Ramiro Belgardt also assembled the album for Revenge of the Sith. Make of that what you will.

It means this thing's probably hacked to pieces and missing many crucial cues, particularly from the last part of the movie.

I would bet money on that being why I'm finding the album very underwhelming at the moment.

I'm really hoping the film's good now, after all these negative reports.

[drwynn 0]

Actually I was talking about the short section starting at 4:14 in Finale! Played by the accordion and flutes, I belive...

Got it; my bad. I'm not sure exactly what theme that might/could be. I'll have to take a closer listen to the score again and "look" for it as I do.

About the score; I absolutely LOVE the last 30 seconds or so of "Orellana's Cradle" and I think the "Ants!" track is brilliant!

[Beowulf 4]

I actually look forward to hearing what 'Russian' influences there are in the score. Would be a first from JW I would think?

[Josh500 1,615]

God, I have to say it too...I absolutely adore this score! Certainly one of JW better efforts.

I can't get enough of The Jungle Chase, A Whirl Through Academe, Journey to Akator, Irina's Theme, and Finale!