The Official KotCS UNRELEASED Music thread.

[King Mark 3,631]

Here is the place to mention where you noticed music that is not on the OST,so we can get a more complete picture of the complete score as it appears in the film.

We can also put the OST tracks in Chronological Order

Since some of us want to know if great cues were left off the OST but do not want the film ruined,please only mention the music (cues,themes...) then put spoiler text to place it in context.

K.M.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure Jungle Chase is missing a pretty decent amount of amazing music.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

There's an amazing, emotional rendition of the Raiders March B-theme when Indy dies.

[Jacck 23]

I'm going to see it tomorrow evening so I'll definitely be paying attention. Can't wait!

[MissPadmé 17]

Haven't seen the movie yet, but there is defenitely a unreleased cue (according to one of the existing LEGO Sets)

"The River Chase"

[King Mark 3,631]

From FSM board ("Editor")

"The film opens with a

song

Half of the jungle chase is not on the album.

Sean Connery's

theme has a couple of moving cameos.

There's a neat quotation of the ark theme that's not on the album.

The first four cues on the album are concert/album pieces (which is probably obvious regardless of whether you've seen the movie).

The Crystal Skull theme, which drives the album, is barely a factor in the film"

I am getting this vibe that great orchestrations of the old Indy themes were left off the album in favor of the dark ominous underscore we have on the c.d.

K.M.Bracing for several "Goodbye Old Friends"

[Henry B 50]

Ark theme? Good. Very good.

Henry's theme? Uh...

[Vaderbait1 1]

From FSM board ("Editor")

The Crystal Skull theme, which drives the album, is barely a factor in the film"

That surprises me. I wonder if ANY of the themes are predominant?

[Henry B 50]

I've heard there's a rousing rendition of the Raiders March in the full "Jungle Chase."

[Jacob 0]

Half of the jungle chase is not on the album.

Excellent. (In a way.)

[Hlao-roo 389]

Half of the jungle chase is not on the album.

Excellent. (In a way.)

Uncool bro.

[MissPadmé 17]

Half of the jungle chase is not on the album.

Excellent. (In a way.)

Uncool bro.

I think he means that there is hope that THERE actually EXISTS a perfect actioncue lasting about 10mins, which John Williams was still able to create. And this is great.. (only in a way, because we don't have it isolated but only chopped up on the CD)

[Hlao-roo 389]

Half of the jungle chase is not on the album.

Excellent. (In a way.)

Uncool bro.

I think he means that there is hope that THERE actually EXISTS a perfect actioncue lasting about 10mins, which John Williams was still able to create. And this is great.. (only in a way, because we don't have it isolated but only chopped up on the CD)

I knew what he meant. Still, most of us can only speculate about what the other half of the cue sounds like. As for me, I am yet to even hear most of the half that has been released. (My Amazon order should be arriving on Wednesday.)

[Jarbas 1]

Maybe Concord Music Group asked for Williams to leave out several action music from this first album because there will be another: "More Music from Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"

[King Mark 3,631]

Maybe were overestimating Concord Music Group.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The first four cues on the album are concert/album pieces (which is probably obvious regardless of whether you've seen the movie).

Well now...

[Jacob 0]

Half of the jungle chase is not on the album.

Excellent. (In a way.)

Uncool bro.

You still going at that? Ye who thought it would be awesome if the the album were canceled.

I think he means that there is hope that THERE actually EXISTS a perfect actioncue lasting about 10mins, which John Williams was still able to create. And this is great.. (only in a way, because we don't have it isolated but only chopped up on the CD)

Yes, MissPadmé. But Alan's 'uncool' comment is an inside joke.

Ever since he found out Mama lied to him about my existence he hasn't been able to get over it. Poor thing.

[Neimoidian 14]

From FSM board ("Editor")

"The film opens with a

song

Half of the jungle chase is not on the album.

Sean Connery's

theme has a couple of moving cameos.

There's a neat quotation of the ark theme that's not on the album.

The first four cues on the album are concert/album pieces (which is probably obvious regardless of whether you've seen the movie).

The Crystal Skull theme, which drives the album, is barely a factor in the film"

I am getting this vibe that great orchestrations of the old Indy themes were left off the album in favor of the dark ominous underscore we have on the c.d.

K.M.Bracing for several "Goodbye Old Friends"

The editior was right. However, I find it hard to say if there are "Goodbye Old Friends"-type of missing cues. There is definitely one at the beginnig of the movie, the very first cue of the score in a scene

where Russian soliders enter American Military Base. We hear a woodwind military russian march, a theme that I believe appear also in the "Spell of the skull". As for that cue, it underscores the action in the warehouse and there are also some portions of the score missing, I believe.

The Jungle Chase misses some music, but there is very little of really great one though - nothing that's compared to the action cues in previous ones.

Marion's theme appears more than once in the movie, but it's no surprise.

Haven't seen the movie yet, but there is defenitely a unreleased cue (according to one of the existing LEGO Sets)

"The River Chase"

There is no

"The River Chase"

. They just

swim there, without any chase, falling down from one waterfall to another, but I don't remember any music in that scene.

There is also a great deal of 50s song in the movie, if one cares

[Pieter Boelen 740]

We've had slight hints that unreleased music (from the LEGO Indiana Jones video game and FSM podcast) is floating around somewhere. I suspect the KotCS OST is severely misrepresenting the score. I'm holding out hope that the reason for that is to ensure there's some good stuff not on the OST to make us buy the complete edition some time later, when all four scores are released in their complete forms. It's about time they did that for the first three. Actually, it was about time ten years ago.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

So much for the album listening experience.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

As far as the messing around with the original music to achieve a better listening experience is concerned, I am no fan of that at all. It doesn't get better one bit. It actually tends to disrupt the listening experience for me because any development in the music is lost and I can't follow the movie in my head either, because the music keeps jumping around. Very annoying. I much prefer OSTs that are chronologically ordered, don't have hacked up music and don't have the same music repeated. Why is it that the OSTs of my favourite composer are also the most susceptible to being severely messed up??? Grrr!

[Neimoidian 14]

We've had slight hints that unreleased music (from the LEGO Indiana Jones video game and FSM podcast) is floating around somewhere. I suspect the KotCS OST is severely misrepresenting the score. (...)

Actually there is not so much great unreleased music and definitely nothing considerably better than what is already on the album. If I had known the album before seeing the movie, I could say more, but I don't remember anything special, except what I mentioned earlier. There may be several microedits, though.

[M.E. Russell 0]

I was listening for new music in my screening, and to be honest, I didn't hear a lot of great unreleased music the way I did on, say, "Revenge of the Sith." Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Here are some things I noticed -- I'll spoiler-cover some of this:

1. The movie opens with "Rock around the Clock." (UPDATE: I checked my notes and it was actually "Hound Dog." I think "Rock around the Clock" might score the next scene.) In another scene, a fight breaks out in a malt shop; it's also scored to a classic '50s rock-n-roll song, though the song itself escapes me; it's another really obvious '50s classic, though, and it cuts from there to "A Whirl through Academe." They could very easily have added a couple of '50s songs to the CD release -- it would have been as honest an addition as the Spanish folk songs that are on the album.

2. There are several very blatant quotes of previous music ("Raiders" and "Last Crusade" only) in the series. During the crazy rope-swing back into the truck, for example, music is played note-for-note from "Flight from Peru" in "Raiders." This is during the warehouse scene, which also quotes the Ark theme and the music we've heard on the album -- the Nazi/Map Room music. You also hear the Grail Theme quoted prominently in another part of the film.

3. There's no great missing bit of Marion music that I heard. There may be a nice moment at the beginning of the jungle chase (not in the album) that may have been worthwhile -- Indy says something that makes Marion smile. I was following the action more than the music at this point. Alas, Marion's really not in the movie very much, and she has nothing to do but smile and yell and drive a truck. A tremendous wasted opportunity.

3. If I have one "beef" with the action cues throughout, it's simply this: Each cue is a collection of small flurries of direct reaction to what's going on onscreen. There's no larger shape -- no musical set piece you can really hang your hat on.

(I have no music education, so I hope I'm explaining the following well. Forgive me if I don't.)

In the other films, Williams' action set-piece cues had their own internal themes and coherent structure. You can easily enjoy them apart from the film. I'm thinking specifically of "Desert Chase" here, or from the Star Wars series "The Asteroid Field" -- cues where the music piece accompanying the set piece has its own beginning, middle and an end. It's what I loved about Williams' action music as a kid.

Putting it another way: You know how "Jungle Chase" feels crudely stitched together, like a mash-up of different bits slammed together without a larger shape? That's basically what the music in every action scene sounded like to me -- a series of beautifully orchestrated mini-reactions. (I'm not even sure "Jungle Chase" was internally edited down from its film version; it's just the end of a longer cue suffering from this "problem," which is less a problem and more a composer choice. And to be fair, I'd still like to hear the jungle-chase cue in its entirety.)

But then, I think Williams is just reacting to the action in this movie, which has that sort of jumbled, kitchen-sink quality --

the jungle chase in particular juggles too many characters and too many elements to allow for any sort of coherent larger shape.

I get into this a little bit more in my review of the movie, which you can read here if you're so inclined.

[Hlao-roo 389]

3. If I have one "beef" with the action cues throughout, it's simply this: Each cue is a collection of small flurries of direct reaction to what's going on onscreen. There's no larger shape -- no musical set piece you can really hang your hat on.

(I have no music education, so I hope I'm explaining the following well. Forgive me if I don't.)

In the other films, Williams' action set-piece cues had their own internal themes and coherent structure. You can easily enjoy them apart from the film. I'm thinking specifically of "Desert Chase" here, or from the Star Wars series "The Asteroid Field" -- cues where the music piece accompanying the set piece has its own beginning, middle and an end. It's what I loved about Williams' action music as a kid.

Putting it another way: You know how "Jungle Chase" feels crudely stitched together, like a mash-up of different bits slammed together without a larger shape? That's basically what the music in every action scene sounded like to me -- a series of beautifully orchestrated mini-reactions. (I'm not even sure "Jungle Chase" was edited down from its film version.)

Yeah, we've been debating the (d)evolution of Williams's action writing back and forth here and elsewhere, with passions running typically high on both sides. I like the way you put it in terms of reaction. It's almost as though Williams's attention span isn't quite what it once was, and that rather than looking at the big picture, so to speak, he has a tendency to go off every which way -- now here, now there -- with his music because he's reacting to the scene in successive chunks instead of as a whole.

But some will argue that Williams is at the mercy of filmmaking and the filmmaking process, both of which have supposedly become more fickle and more helter skelter in recent decades.

[M.E. Russell 0]

But some will argue that Williams is at the mercy of filmmaking and the filmmaking process, both of which have supposedly become more fickle and more helter skelter in recent decades.

I'd argue that is absolutely the case here, at least in the case of "Jungle Chase," which scores a bit of action that's mostly fun, but also kind of all over the place. Though I'm guessing you will all

hate the part with the monkeys and vine-swinging, which is scored with exactly the bit of "Jungle Chase" music on the album that you think it is.

[King Mark 3,631]

In a way that is a relief,because we ain't seeing expanded scores anytime soon

[Neimoidian 14]

I'd argue that is absolutely the case here, at least in the case of "Jungle Chase," which scores a bit of action that's mostly fun, but also kind of all over the place. Though I'm guessing you will all

hate the part with the monkeys and vine-swinging, which is scored with exactly the bit of "Jungle Chase" music on the album that you think it is.

On the other hand, this scene is scored with very charming melody. I agree, however, that this scene may make people cringe. As for me, I don't find it more disturbing that Short Round's stunts in ToD. These are the kinds of slapstick jokes one should prepare oneself to, when going to watch IJ movies.

As for the latino music, I believe it's Williams' composition, so it was more likely to show up on the album than the source songs.

[King Mark 3,631]

does Journey to Alkator Raiders march really seigue into the mexican source music?

[Neimoidian 14]

does Journey to Alkator Raiders march really seigue into the mexican source music?

Yes, it does, but it works good in the context of the movie. The Raiders March is for

traditional travel-map scene

, while the source cue underscores a scene

where Indy and Mutt walk through the market just after coming to Peru

[King Mark 3,631]

Ok a crucial question.

The Finale (BEFORE the End Credits)

in the film is it just Marion's Theme seiguing into the Raiders March like on the c.d. or a more elaborate presentation of major themes?

also the "Pre-Finale" (or the last big cue when all the action ends)

Does it end only with The Departure as the musical highlight? Or we get somekind of grand E.T. Goodbye Scene like cue?

[Neimoidian 14]

Ok a crucial question.

The Finale (BEFORE the End Credits)

in the film is it just Marion's Theme seiguing into the Raiders March like on the c.d. or a more elaborate presentation of major themes?

also the "Pre-Finale" (or the last big cue when all the action ends)

Does it end only with The Departure as the musical highlight?

The Finale in the movie is as it is on the album.

The Departure is for the [minor spoiler]

last part of the longer climax sequence

. There might be some more music between The Departure and Finale, though. No more highlights however.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The Departure is for the [minor spoiler]

last part of the longer climax sequence

. There might be some more music between The Departure and Finale, though. No more highlights however.

Well, there's that Last Crusade music....

does Journey to Alkator Raiders march really seigue into the mexican source music?

I dont know whether its true 'source music' as you don't actually see the source of the music onscreen if i remember correctly.

[Adam S. 0]

The music does come right in like the album except maybe a little more of a delay. I suppose JW was trying to be more generically Latin American by putting the flute in there and changing the rythms a little bit. He wrote something closer to the Mariachi (Mexican) sound with his Mexican versions of The Long Goodbye. I kind of doubt Peruvian music would use trumpets like that, though. Oh well.

- Adam

[Josh500 1,615]

does Journey to Alkator Raiders march really seigue into the mexican source music?

I dont know whether its true 'source music' as you don't actually see the source of the music onscreen if i remember correctly.

Well, John Williams's score segues into source music . . .

But the track as heard on the album is exactly how it's played in the movie.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Is it just me, or was the Paramount logo tracked with the opening bars of "Indy's Very First Adventure"?

[Josh500 1,615]

Is it just me, or was the Paramount logo tracked with the opening bars of "Indy's Very First Adventure"?

Hmmm, aren't the opening bars of IVFA just a single note played by the strings? Could be, but I doubt it.

[Neimoidian 14]

Is it just me, or was the Paramount logo tracked with the opening bars of "Indy's Very First Adventure"?

Hmmm, aren't the opening bars of IVFA just a single note played by the strings? Could be, but I doubt it.

I know people who would find this 'cue' an essential part of their Williams collection.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

does Journey to Alkator Raiders march really seigue into the mexican source music?

I dont know whether its true 'source music' as you don't actually see the source of the music onscreen if i remember correctly.

Well, John Williams's score segues into source music . . .

But the track as heard on the album is exactly how it's played in the movie.

Is the Mexican music really source music or just Mexican flavored score? I didn't see any band playing it on screen.

[M.E. Russell 0]

Amending my earlier remarks: I re-checked my notes and "Hound Dog" actually opens the movie. Another '50s hit -- possibly "Rock Around the Clock" -- scores the

malt-shop fight.

Also, and I'd have to see it again to confirm my suspicion, but I think, in terms of music in the film. the second half of "Return" (as presented on the CD) comes shortly before "The Departure." I think "Return" is cues from different parts of the movie stitched together --

Indy's stare-into-the-skull bit in the tent and then the ending, when a room starts rotating.

I may be wrong about this.

Also, the Mexican "source music" fills the same role here as the bazaar source music in "Raiders." It feels like source music, but the longer you think about it, the more it fails as a concept -- is there a large band playing just around the corner? Probably not. Movie magic!

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Then the mexican music is NOT source music! Its pure score!

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

It is pure score.

in the film is it just Marion's Theme seiguing into the Raiders March like on the c.d. or a more elaborate presentation of major themes?

also the "Pre-Finale" (or the last big cue when all the action ends)

Does it end only with The Departure as the musical highlight? Or we get somekind of grand E.T. Goodbye Scene like cue?

The big crescendo that segues into the staccatos of the Raiders March is dialed out in the film.

After "Departure", there's the Grail theme. Then comes "Finale".

[Bowie 45]

What is with people needing black-and-white definitions for everything?

Clearly this blatant change into a street-band type of piece indicates that, somewhere near the protagonists, a group of Mexican musicians have actually whipped out their instruments and started playing the music that is heard throughout the scene, as opposed to the rest of the score when there presumably is no live orchestra running alongside Indy's and Irina's entourages.

In other words, it's implied source music.

As far as we know, footage of the band could have been cut, and so I hardly think it makes sense for whether the intentional source of the music makes it past the editing room or not somehow determines whether it's called "source music" or "score".

[Delorean90 42]

I'm curious as to what unused music exists for this score. The fact that the same section of "Flight From Peru" is used twice leads me to believe that the first usage in-film may be tracked. Not sure why that would be, but it's possible (I believe John Takis noted this as well). I can't wait to see the movie again and keep better track of the unreleased music. Is there a KOTCS game planned?

[Henry B 50]

No.

I doubt there's any tracking involved. The opening sequence reuses nearly half of "Flight from Peru" (all the Raiders March stuff), while "Journey to Akator" only features the final, brassy statement of the theme, followed by a little of the B theme ostinato.

[Delorean90 42]

Ah, yes, that's true. I won't deny that I was slightly disappointed with the scoring of that bit, mostly because after seeing it in the trailers, I was expecting a new, awesome statement of the theme. I wonder whose idea it was to use that.

[John Takis 206]

Actually, I think I was mistaken earlier ... I DID recognize the big statement of the Indy theme in the Warehouse Escape, but I now believe it's actually a reference to "Raiders", when Indy and Jock escape from the Hovitos in the plane.

[King Mark 3,631]

Is it just me, or was the Paramount logo tracked with the opening bars of "Indy's Very First Adventure"?

Hmmm, aren't the opening bars of IVFA just a single note played by the strings? Could be, but I doubt it.

I know people who would find this 'cue' an essential part of their Williams collection.

I am OUTRAGED that we don't have this single stretched note on the OST!

[John Crichton 4]

I'm gonna have to dig through my whole Williams collection to find a similar chord and put in on my film edit.

[King Mark 3,631]

I also liked the music when they go down the retracting stairwell,but it's a rather short incidental cue

Here's the cues I would have liked on the OST .

Warehouse Sequence pt1

Mushroom Cloud

Indy's House

Jungle Chase Pt1

Retracting Stairwell

Just another thought .Since there WERE 50's songs in the film,it could have been a REAL possibility some might have been included on the c.d.Thank god that didn't happen

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I also liked the music when they go down the retracting stairwell,but it's a rather short incidental cue

Here's the cues I would have liked on the OST .

Warehouse Sequence pt1

Mushroom Cloud

Indy's House

Jungle Chase Pt1

Retracting Stairwell

Just another thought .Since there WERE 50's songs in the film,it could have been a REAL possibility some might have been included on the c.d.Thank god that didn't happen

I wouldnt have minded 'Hound Dog'....