Jay 37,323 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Wow, you're right! That's a good catch!I'll fix it up above later. For now, I must depart for Boston to meet up with the people I'm seeing John Williams in concert with tonight! Woot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Wow, you're right! That's a good catch!I'll fix it up above later. For now, I must depart for Boston to meet up with the people I'm seeing John Williams in concert with tonight! Woot!ask him if its tracked then, just to be sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I think a small section from Jungle Chase Pt1 was tracked into the c.d. End Credits(Finale) .That Russian sounding music bit...That's the Russian theme (which, by the way, I love, it's firmly rooted in classic Indy "bad guy" music). It shows up in quite a few other places, so I doubt it was tracked.Thank God, someone else other than me says "woot" around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 have you realised that the indy theme from the end of the film version of "Ants" is the exact same as the version when Indy first enters... its tracked obviuosly...They could have put it at least once on the OST.It's just I remember thinking at that moment in the film, hey,isn't that the small unidentified segment from the End Credits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FattyMcButterpants 1 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Greetings, all! Just got back from my first screening of the film, notebook and pen in hand.You went to a screening with ... a notebook to notate the score?putting it in film order thats just too damned anal.Just to clarify, is anal a new substitution for gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Greetings, all! Just got back from my first screening of the film, notebook and pen in hand.You went to a screening with ... a notebook to notate the score?you don't know Mr. Takis too well do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I would have waited for my second viewing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Dedicated, our Mr. Takis is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FattyMcButterpants 1 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 you don't know Mr. Takis too well do you?141 posts compared to 13 548.I think not.Jason LeBlanc.Are you related to Shia LaBeouf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 John's final analysis is up on the main page, along with Jason's.John- who's surprised these threads haven't been mergedMODERATOR'S REPLY: Now they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 You went to a screening with ... a notebook to notate the score?Automatic writing, Mr. McButterpants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Greetings, all! Just got back from my first screening of the film, notebook and pen in hand.You went to a screening with ... a notebook to notate the score?Nah he used the same downloaded bootleg I did, which is why neither of know the proper length of Legend of Akator. All the boots that have hit the net so far have a chunk of that scene missingThere's another quote of Marions theme just before she drives the trucks into the water and lands on the treeAnother good catch! There is also another quote of Last Crusade music when they cut to the school Indy teaches in (the scene where he's in his classroom)I noticed the similarity too, but I don't think it's a direct quote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Nah he used the same downloaded bootleg I did, which is why neither of know the proper length of Legend of Akator. All the boots that have hit the net so far have a chunk of that scene missingI'm afraid I did indeed have a notebook handy in the theater. A little $0.87 hand-held spiralbound I picked up at the local supermarket. It has a picture of a rhinoceros on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 While certain sources were helpful in establishing relatively accurate timings ... I'm afraid I did indeed have a notebook handy in the theater. A little $0.87 spiralbound I picked up at the local supermarket. It has a picture of a rhinoceros on it. Nice. When I saw the movie opening night at midnight, I tried to just enjoy the movie for what it was without getting analytic on the score at the time. Didn't start breaking it down till afterwards.Granted, with this movie, it probably would have increased my enjoyment if I had work like that to do while watching it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 There is also another quote of Last Crusade music when they cut to the school Indy teaches in (the scene where he's in his classroom)I noticed the similarity too, but I don't think it's a direct quote...Isn't that the end of "Flight from Peru" with a slower tempo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 There is also another quote of Last Crusade music when they cut to the school Indy teaches in (the scene where he's in his classroom)I noticed the similarity too, but I don't think it's a direct quote...Isn't that the end of "Flight from Peru" with a slower tempo?Haha woops yes, I meant to say that it was actually the Raiders college shot that it was similar to... and listening to it again just now, I think it is VERY close to being a direct quote, but yes at a much slower temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem 151 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Thanks to both John and Jason. Great analysis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_A_R_T_H 24 Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 yes thanks so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Just sent in a new batch of corrections to Ricard, including more clear references to the Indy theme (Mutt variation). Special thanks to Doug Adams for his helpful suggestions on this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I don't know if this is relevant to your analysis John, but I think the film version of the Finale omits that Prisoner of Azkaban-like bit and the second Russian-motif fanfare. It goes straight from the first fanfare to Mutt's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FattyMcButterpants 1 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Yes. It also omits a part of Marion's theme after Mutt's theme played.Also, when Indy and company get flushed out of the well, you hear a fragment of Marion's theme as a string cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Also, when Indy and company get flushed out of the well, you hear a fragment of Marion's theme as a string cluster.Try as I can, Mr. McB., I don't hear this. Can you be more specific with timings for the CD so that I can be sure I'm listening to the right passage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Also, when Indy and company get flushed out of the well, you hear a fragment of Marion's theme as a string cluster.Try as I can, Mr. McB., I don't hear this. Can you be more specific with timings for the CD so that I can be sure I'm listening to the right passage?I don't hear this eitherI just updated the posts containing my analysis (here and here). Fixed lots of errors and added a lot more text throughout, check it out. Will be sending it to Ricard to to update the main page version too. I want to thank everyone who has posted additions and suggestions in the thread so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FattyMcButterpants 1 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 It struck me the first time I heard it. Listen from 1:02 to 1:15 in "Departure". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 It struck me the first time I heard it. Listen from 1:02 to 1:15 in "Departure".Sorry ... I'm trying, but I just don't hear it. Maybe it would help if you were to articulate which "fragment" of Marion's theme you're hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FattyMcButterpants 1 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Not a fragment, the first phrase of the theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 no Marion's Theme there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal_Ozzel 36 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I don't hear it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 The Elders have spoken.Has anyone pointed out that the 3 note motif in Ants! is the skull motif played faster at a higher pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Saw the movie a 3rd timeTheres this really great little bit of Indy's/Mutt's Theme variation when Indy wants to take the knife from the dead guy in Orelleanas grave .This is the type of moment I hate are not on the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Finally you find something to hate from the release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 oh,there's a few things I hate about it,but not as much as PoA or RotS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I spent an evening on editing the album tracks alone, wasn't all that easy I think, to get it right. I don't have the DVD yet, so I was wondering if that had some clean openings/endings in the rear channels that's not in the editing guide yet.For "Temple Ruins", I tried copying the first note but it did have a noticeable edit (for the flute part), so I ended up copying the second series of three notes at the beginning, in order to have a clean opening.A question: in track 13, the part from 2.30 to 2.40, is that part of "Temple Entrance", or "The Gift"?I followed the guide for this (though Jason's cue list suggests otherwise), and included it at the ending of "The Gift", and mixed it with "The Secret Revealed" (which works well, I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I had done this but reverted to the full album tracks,just placed in "approximate" chronological order .I just can't stand a cue ending into a obvious cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Wouldn't it be easier if this was all confined to one thread?Don't we have two other threads where the DVD rips and cues are being discussed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Yup, complete OSTs tracks + expanded cues in approximate chronological order works very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I had done this but reverted to the full album tracks,just placed in "approximate" chronological order .I just can't stand a cue ending into a obvious cutYou can avoid that though. I've combined cues two times: Oxley's Dilemma / Grave Robbers and The Gift / The Secret Revealed. Works well enough now. But perhaps the DVD has got clean openings/endings...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I also already forgot the movie enough so that exact chronological order doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 A question: in track 13, the part from 2.30 to 2.40, is that part of "Temple Entrance", or "The Gift"?I followed the guide for this (though Jason's cue list suggests otherwise), and included it at the ending of "The Gift", and mixed it with "The Secret Revealed" (which works well, I think).If you're referring to the part I think where it's just the one note drawn out, I think that's used right before "Ants!". Strange they'd throw that in, if I'm right. Well, not really strange, but not really fitting well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Yeah I've noticed that on the Pre-viz tracks. But is it used anywhere else in the movie? Is it tracked into Ants or is that the original place of the cue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Yeah I've noticed that on the Pre-viz tracks. But is it used anywhere else in the movie? Is it tracked into Ants or is that the original place of the cue?I listened to the bootleg my mom watched(I hate bootleg DVD's. The only reason I ever watched it was for this purpose) and it didn't sound like it was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,305 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 On 5/23/2008 at 6:23 PM, Jay said: 25 The Snake Pit 3:15 - OST Track 5 This cue begins as Mutt punches a KGB guard and overturns the table the map is on. It plays through the entire quicksand scene, but the music pauses (for 6 seconds in the film, 2 seconds on the CD) when Marion tells Indy that Mutt is his son and he ponders that fact. After escaping the pit, Indy's Theme plays as Mutt throws the snake away, then Dovchenko's theme plays as Oxley's "help" turns out to be their captors. (on the OST, sustained chords play instead of Dovchenko's Theme). Hey @Jay, do you have any more information on the bolded section? The recording sessions track 4m36 Grab That Snake features the same ending as in the film, Dovchenko's Theme. The ending of the OST track The Snake Pit features atonal sustained chords. So presumably the OST track ending is taken from elsewhere in the score, rather than being a revised ending or insert (unless the sessions are incomplete). Do you know where the OST ending comes from? I checked the Russians Reappear cues (and Hello Jonesy) but, although similar, they are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 Don't know how long I can live without all those ' missing' 30 second cue! Oh the pain! The pain-😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 No, I have no idea where the OST ending comes from >shrug< Someone should look at the sheet music and see if it has the OST ending or the film/sessions ending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 15 hours ago, crumbs said: The recording sessions track 4m36 Grab That Snake features the same ending as in the film, Dovchenko's Theme. The ending of the OST track The Snake Pit features atonal sustained chords. 6 hours ago, Jay said: Someone should look at the sheet music and see if it has the OST ending or the film/sessions ending So, both endings are in the written score of 4M36. The film/sessions leak ending is first, and the athematic OST version follows, referred to as ‘Alt Ending’: crumbs and Smeltington 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 Fascinating! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,305 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Legend, thanks @BrotherSound! So just an alternate ending that wasn't in the session leak, but Williams fortunately used for the OST. Have you noticed any other alternates in the sheet music that were missing in the sessions @BrotherSound? BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 16 hours ago, crumbs said: Have you noticed any other alternates in the sheet music that were missing in the sessions @BrotherSound? Quite a few, but who knows if anything else was recorded. It’s not unusual for early versions of revised cues to not get recorded, even as far back as the 1977 Star Wars! I’ve noted everything not in the sessions leak with an asterisk: Spoiler 1M1 Elvis and the Prairie Dog *1M3 Tie Shoes 1M3 Rev. - Tie Shoes *1M4 Irena Spalkov *1M4 Rev. - Irena Spalkov 1M4 New Rev. - Irena Spalkov 1M5 Revisiting the Ark 1M5R Mark Graham Revisits The Ark 1M5B Gun Powder 2M6 Unpacking 2M7 Indie Fight Back 2M8 Indie's Great Escape 2M8B A Ride Down Ben Burtt Boulevard 2M8C Indie Versus the Russian 2M9 Giving the Russians the Slip 2M11 Prairie Dog and Nuclear Cloud *3M12 [sic] That’s Her 2M12 That's Her 2M12B Indy’s Posh House *2M13 Remembering Henry Sr. 2M13 Rev. - Remembering Henry Sr. & Leaving Campus *2M15 [Version 1] - It's Just a Story Kid 2M15 Version 2 - It’s Just a Story Kid 2M17 A Knife at a Gunfight 2M19 A Whirl Through Academe *3M20 The Trip to Akator 3M20 Rev. - The Trip To Peru 3M21 Homage A Maxie [source] 3M23 Reading the Wall 3M24 I Think I Heard Something 3M25 Graveside Fight 3M26 Magic Doors and Scorpions 3M26B Not a Dead End 3M27 [untitled] 3M27F Telling The Story *3M27B What Is This Thing? 3M27B Rev. - What Is This Thing? M28 Version 1 - Russians Reappear M28 Version 2 - Russians Reappear 3M28 Rev. - Hello Jonesy 4M30 Not Made By Human Hands 4M32 Staring Down the Skull 4M32 Version 2 4M32 Version 3 4M33 Ideograms 4M34 Sleeping River Map 4M35 Quick Step In Quicksand 4M36 Grab that Snake 4M37 We're Not Dead Yet 5M38 Andy's Full Nelson 5M38 [Insert] - Legs 5M39 Irina’s Great Blade 5M39 Insert #1 5M39 Insert #2 5M40 Mike Kahn Cooks 5M40R [untitled] 5M41 Ants 5M42 Marion's Best Idea 5M42 Alt. Ending 5M43 OX Marks the Spot 5M43A It Must Be Returned 6M44 Shawn Murphy and the Mad Mayans 6M45 The City of Gold 6M45 Alt. Beginning 6M46 Stepping Stones 6M47 This Way, Ramiro! 6M47R This Way, Ramiro! 6M48 Sanctum Santorum 6M49 Marty Cohen's Hidden Treasure 6M50 Irena's Long Goodbye 6M50 Insert 6M50 New [untitled] 7M53 Kathy Kennedy's Great Flying Machine 7M53 Extension *7M54 Stick Around Kid 7M54R Stick Around Kid 7M55 George Might Be Next 7M56 Crystal Skull End Credits 7M56 New Ending - Raider's March *Henry Jones, Jr. [early version of “The Adventures of Mutt”] Swashbuckler [“The Adventures of Mutt”] The Thirteen Visitors [“Call of the Crystal”] 1M1 as written has a brief unused synth melody, which was either removed via podium instruction or mixed out. 5M42 Alt Ending appears to have been incorporated into the complete cue, so the original ending is presumably unrecorded (it’s not terribly interesting, though: the main difference is a couple less bars of the Irina theme). The brief 6M50 insert also appears to have been incorporated into the full cue, where it replaces 3 athematic bars with the Irina theme. Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 510 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, BrotherSound said: I’ve noted everything not in the sessions leak with an asterisk: Reveal hidden contents 1M1 Elvis and the Prairie Dog *1M3 Tie Shoes 1M3 Rev. - Tie Shoes *1M4 Irena Spalkov *1M4 Rev. - Irena Spalkov 1M4 New Rev. - Irena Spalkov 1M5 Revisiting the Ark 1M5R Mark Graham Revisits The Ark 1M5B Gun Powder 2M6 Unpacking 2M7 Indie Fight Back 2M8 Indie's Great Escape 2M8B A Ride Down Ben Burtt Boulevard 2M8C Indie Versus the Russian 2M9 Giving the Russians the Slip 2M11 Prairie Dog and Nuclear Cloud *3M12 [sic] That’s Her 2M12 That's Her 2M12B Indy’s Posh House *2M13 Remembering Henry Sr. 2M13 Rev. - Remembering Henry Sr. & Leaving Campus *2M15 [Version 1] - It's Just a Story Kid 2M15 Version 2 - It’s Just a Story Kid 2M17 A Knife at a Gunfight 2M19 A Whirl Through Academe *3M20 The Trip to Akator 3M20 Rev. - The Trip To Peru 3M21 Homage A Maxie [source] 3M23 Reading the Wall 3M24 I Think I Heard Something 3M25 Graveside Fight 3M26 Magic Doors and Scorpions 3M26B Not a Dead End 3M27 [untitled] 3M27F Telling The Story *3M27B What Is This Thing? 3M27B Rev. - What Is This Thing? M28 Version 1 - Russians Reappear M28 Version 2 - Russians Reappear 3M28 Rev. - Hello Jonesy 4M30 Not Made By Human Hands 4M32 Staring Down the Skull 4M32 Version 2 4M32 Version 3 4M33 Ideograms 4M34 Sleeping River Map 4M35 Quick Step In Quicksand 4M36 Grab that Snake 4M37 We're Not Dead Yet 5M38 Andy's Full Nelson 5M38 [Insert] - Legs 5M39 Irina’s Great Blade 5M39 Insert #1 5M39 Insert #2 5M40 Mike Kahn Cooks 5M40R [untitled] 5M41 Ants 5M42 Marion's Best Idea 5M42 Alt. Ending 5M43 OX Marks the Spot 5M43A It Must Be Returned 6M44 Shawn Murphy and the Mad Mayans 6M45 The City of Gold 6M45 Alt. Beginning 6M46 Stepping Stones 6M47 This Way, Ramiro! 6M47R This Way, Ramiro! 6M48 Sanctum Santorum 6M49 Marty Cohen's Hidden Treasure 6M50 Irena's Long Goodbye 6M50 Insert 6M50 New [untitled] 7M53 Kathy Kennedy's Great Flying Machine 7M53 Extension *7M54 Stick Around Kid 7M54R Stick Around Kid 7M55 George Might Be Next 7M56 Crystal Skull End Credits 7M56 New Ending - Raider's March *Henry Jones, Jr. [early version of “The Adventures of Mutt”] Swashbuckler [“The Adventures of Mutt”] The Thirteen Visitors [“Call of the Crystal”] Whait is this real? I thought this was the right cue titels http://www.jwfan.com/?p=8752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 No those are fanmade titles We learned about the real names (the ones that include Kennedy, Kahn, etc) after that post was made Smaug The Iron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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