Let's See How Biased The Board Can Be!

[scissorhands 16]

This said, Geisha is by all means one of JW's finest achievements and I wouldn't even dare to compare it with the Last Samurai, which, by the way, has a simple understanding of harmony, not because Zimmer wanted a simple approach, but because he can't, he doesn't have the skills to go further.

I'd rather listen to The Last Samurai. Doesn't have the skills? As far as I'm concerned, Hans Zimmer IS the most in-demand composer, he is the most popular composer working today, and he has defined the modern film score. He is one of the most successful composers ever, and will probably live on to be the most successful. Whatever any one says, I'm done with it. It's ridiculous how ignorant people can be.

It's difficult to reason out with someone who asks for solid arguments, but can't provide any himself, apart from the popularity of the composer. What else do you need? I claimed that the Last Samurai has a lot to be desired harmony-wise (among other things), do you need me to depict, one by one, all the harmonic progressions from that score? I could if you wish, but would that change your mind?

Nobody said Zimmer is a terrible composer, he's good at what he does. It just doesn't make any sense to compare him to someone who is in another, very different and obviously superior league.

And please show a little more respect to the members of this board (some of whom have proved their musical education over the years), instead of calling them ignorants.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

koray he's got a long way to go to be as successful at John williams don't you know your s*** plays out of town man.

I rag zimmer because I think he's terrible, but I know in all honesty he's not talentless, but he's not ever going to be in JW, JG, or even JH league

[diskobolus 3]

this poll is pretty obvipants... indifferent about most of everything zimmer has done, whereas i can't stand the amistad or rosewood scores.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I love the Gladiator score, but I can't stand The Last Samurai.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

And yet more than double the amount of people who voted for option 2 voted for option 1...

- Marc, option 1 voter.

[Maglorfin 196]

I also voted for option 1. I mean, let's be sincere.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Bob Dylan isn't a band, but he is the greatest musician ever (IMO of course). Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, and THEN The Beatles, followed by Led Zeppelin and The Who. Those are the greatest bands.

Yes well. Those were all top-notch bands in the '60s, yeah, and their best may be really close to perfection, but you can't blindly listen to anything from their repertoire and expect it the be "great" because they've produced plenty of stinkers through the years (yes, Dylan too).

In terms of quality/quantity ratio, Eric Clapton and Ginger Baker's Cream is the greatest. They didn't record much, but they separated just in time before staining their own name with crappy material (God knows Clapton went on to make crap albums). And what they did record is mind-blowingly good -- especially the live recordings. Wouldn't that make them the greatest band?

By the way, since you include Dylan in your list even though he isn't a band... then where is Jimi Hendrix?

[Jacck 23]

Least favourite Williams score over "favourite" Zimmer score, and I don't see how that must be considered a biased opinion. It's just my opinion based on the musical craftmanship and brilliance of the score(s).

[Bryant Burnette 654]

The Beatles are definitely not the greatest band ever. Period. I love their later work to hell, but still, not the best band. The greatest band needs to have a flawless career, and realistically no band fits that bill.

Bob Dylan isn't a band, but he is the greatest musician ever (IMO of course). Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, and THEN The Beatles, followed by Led Zeppelin and The Who. Those are the greatest bands.

In no sense are either Pink Floyd or The Rolling Stones even close to being as good as The Beatles. (The Stones in particular ought to have stopped recording thirty years ago.)

Not even in that dimension in which Spock has a goatee are The Beatles challenged for Best Band Ever status.

Least favourite Williams score over "favourite" Zimmer score, and I don't see how that must be considered a biased opinion. It's just my opinion based on the musical craftmanship and brilliance of the score(s).

There isn't really such a thing as an unbiased opinion, is there?

[Neimoidian 14]

The Thin Red Line is musically, technically, artistically, and aesthetically better than The Poseidon Adventure, Midway, The River, and Earthquake. So are As Good As It Gets, Driving Miss Daisy, and The Holiday.

I don't know about The Poseidon Adventure, Midway and Earthquake, but as far as The River is concerned, I find it - listening experience-wise - in the same league as...say... Zimmer's Spanglish.

In terms of technical sideof composition, Zimmer can never match Williams, but it's not the point for me. What I admire Zimmer for, is that despite his limited skills he is able to provide terrific music - sometimes highly enjoyable and even sometimes very profound. When I say Thin Red Line is a masterpiece, I don't mean it's technical side, but artistic and aesthetical. There are very few scores that can move so much like TRL. It's transcendental and methaphysical, and I don't give a damn that it's not as elaborate technically like for example Williams' Always which I find extremely dull. The same to certain degree goes for scores like The DaVinci Code, Hannibal, Beyond Rangoon and couple of others.

As much as I appreciate and acknowledge the technical side, there are scores - especially these serious, restrained ones - in which I prefer emotional impact over the complexity of its structure. When it comes to epic scores, the thing is slightly different - my expectations for the technical side are rather high and that's why I'm not happy with such scores like Prince Caspian , not to mention total bottom like The Transformers.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

for the record bob dylan is a good songwriter, but he's a terrible singer, horrid. UNLISTENABLE.

at his most recent performance in LR, he was booed off the stage for his performance or lack of.

[Maestro 147]

On the other hand, his son Jakob is a wonderfully talented musician - singer, songwriter, performer. I had the good fortune of seeing him up close the other night, and he was fantastic.

[Ollie 1,059]

But how about individual cues....would all you Option 2 voters rather listen to, say, "The Greenhouse Effect" or "The Trip to Wilkinson" than "King of Pride Rock" or "Fort Walton, Kansas"?

I believe that's why I voted for option 2.

[Jacck 23]

There isn't really such a thing as an unbiased opinion, is there?

No, but I'm pretty sure there's something in the middle.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

But how about individual cues....would all you Option 2 voters rather listen to, say, "The Greenhouse Effect" or "The Trip to Wilkinson" than "King of Pride Rock" or "Fort Walton, Kansas"?

I believe that's why I voted for option 2.

Very curious...you should be studied.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I'd rather listen to The Last Samurai. Doesn't have the skills? As far as I'm concerned, Hans Zimmer IS the most in-demand composer, he is the most popular composer working today, and he has defined the modern film score. He is one of the most successful composers ever, and will probably live on to be the most successful. Whatever any one says, I'm done with it. It's ridiculous how ignorant people can be.

Skill has nothing to do with popularity or success; claiming that is truly ignorant. And neither does preference have anything to do with quality. If you want to see ignorance, take a good, hard look into the mirror.

I have yet to hear a solid reason as to why Zimmer is a terrible composer from anyone on this forum. And not just in this thread, from any thread.

It doesn't need to be explained, it's apparent and there for those who are able to see it. As scissorhands said, would an in-depth analysis of why Zimmer isn't in Williams' league convince you? Of course not.

I'm sure Marcus could do that, but what's the point?

[Romão 2,274]

Actually, I think Zimmer would be the first to admit is shortcomings when compared with John Williams.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Of course, he said that numerous times. It's just his followers that are SO blind SO often.

[Ollie 1,059]

But how about individual cues....would all you Option 2 voters rather listen to, say, "The Greenhouse Effect" or "The Trip to Wilkinson" than "King of Pride Rock" or "Fort Walton, Kansas"?

I believe that's why I voted for option 2.

Very curious...you should be studied.

I've been told I'm quite a peculiar person among other things.

For the record, we have had serious, detailed discussions as to why some us hate Zimmer's music.

[Hitch 57]

You're just a grunt. No offense.

I bet he grunts more than he talks

[Koray Savas 2,251]

for the record bob dylan is a good songwriter, but he's a terrible singer, horrid. UNLISTENABLE.

at his most recent performance in LR, he was booed off the stage for his performance or lack of.

Well he his old, and he was a heavy smoker, so his concert performances today aren't as good as their original recordings.

I can understand how you find his voice annoying, but unlistenable? Personally, and I have Bryant with me on this, I feel his voice fits his music and lyrics perfectly.

Bob Dylan isn't a band, but he is the greatest musician ever (IMO of course). Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, and THEN The Beatles, followed by Led Zeppelin and The Who. Those are the greatest bands.

Yes well. Those were all top-notch bands in the '60s, yeah, and their best may be really close to perfection, but you can't blindly listen to anything from their repertoire and expect it the be "great" because they've produced plenty of stinkers through the years (yes, Dylan too).

In terms of quality/quantity ratio, Eric Clapton and Ginger Baker's Cream is the greatest. They didn't record much, but they separated just in time before staining their own name with crappy material (God knows Clapton went on to make crap albums). And what they did record is mind-blowingly good -- especially the live recordings. Wouldn't that make them the greatest band?

By the way, since you include Dylan in your list even though he isn't a band... then where is Jimi Hendrix?

I guess that's true, but I'm not familiar with Clapton's works, aside from that he rarely writes his own songs. Only Cream song I'm familiar with is Sunshine Of Your Love, which I like.

As for Jimi Hendrix, I forgot about him. I only know his most popular work, basically the Experience Hendrix CD. I do like him, but not as much as the other people I listed earlier.

I guess it's my orgasmic love of Animals and Wish You Were Here that makes me put Pink Floyd at the #1 band spot. And even their lesser albums have some great songs on them.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Dylan's music is best sung by people with a talented voice, not those wretched cords

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I guess that's true, but I'm not familiar with Clapton's works, aside from that he rarely writes his own songs.

I take you're not into jazz.

Only Cream song I'm familiar with is Sunshine Of Your Love, which I like.

Give Disraeli Gears a couple of spins and then get their 2005 reunion concert. It's lacking in some departments (I sorely miss the wah-wah guitar sound), but it's the best way to see what those animals can do live.

Dylan's music is best sung by people with a talented voice, not those wretched cords

Welcome to the 21st century. Things don't need to be aesthetic to be beautiful anymore.

[Morlock 11]

The little I know of Cream kicks ass.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Dylan's music is best sung by people with a talented voice, not those wretched cords

Welcome to the 21st century. Things don't need to be aesthetic to be beautiful anymore.

nothing he sang was ever beautiful. EVER. now some of his songs performed by people who could sing thats a different story. what century we're in has nothing to do with it.

[Morlock 11]

Have fun with Guns N' Roses' cover of Knockin' on Heaven's Door. Myself, I'll take Dylan's honest singing over a beautified and pointless cover.

Morlock- not the biggest Dylan fan, but doesn't see how one can argue with his singing. Pretty it ain't. But it's real.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Zimmer has done SOME good things, and Williams has done some unmemorable things. Therefore, Best Zimmer > Worst JW.

[Bowie 45]

What's a "favorite Zimmer score"???

[Ollie 1,059]

I dunno, I'm still waiting to hear one.

[Hitch 57]

I don't think we'll ever hear one.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Dylan's music is best sung by people with a talented voice, not those wretched cords

Welcome to the 21st century. Things don't need to be aesthetic to be beautiful anymore.

nothing he sang was ever beautiful. EVER. now some of his songs performed by people who could sing thats a different story. what century we're in has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, I always wished Barbra Streisand would record this so I can finally enjoy the song.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

So far, my favourite Zimmer cue is Chevaliers De Sangreal.

Gorgeous theme, but it depicts the greatest weakness of him; that he can't develop a theme beyond its basic idea and make it more than the sum of its parts.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Dylan's music is best sung by people with a talented voice, not those wretched cords

Welcome to the 21st century. Things don't need to be aesthetic to be beautiful anymore.

nothing he sang was ever beautiful. EVER. now some of his songs performed by people who could sing thats a different story. what century we're in has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, I always wished Barbra Streisand would record this so I can finally enjoy the song.

OH my EARS, MY BLEEDING EARS. the man needs his tongue cut out.

[Morlock 11]

So far, my favourite Zimmer cue is Chevaliers De Sangreal.

Gorgeous theme, but it depicts the greatest weakness of him; that he can't develop a theme beyond its basic idea and make it more than the sum of its parts.

The track is actually comprised of several elements presented earlier in the score. It is the culmination of the score. Zimmer has actually been developing and connecting thematic material to a far greater extent in recent years than he has previously.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Dylan's music is best sung by people with a talented voice, not those wretched cords

Welcome to the 21st century. Things don't need to be aesthetic to be beautiful anymore.

nothing he sang was ever beautiful. EVER. now some of his songs performed by people who could sing thats a different story. what century we're in has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, I always wished Barbra Streisand would record this so I can finally enjoy the song.

OH my EARS, MY BLEEDING EARS. the man needs his tongue cut out.

Heh. It's hard to not see the irony - I kinda feel that way when I read some of your less informed posts (but with "bleeding eyes" instead). I didn't know it was okay to say it out loud.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Dylan's music is best sung by people with a talented voice, not those wretched cords

Welcome to the 21st century. Things don't need to be aesthetic to be beautiful anymore.

nothing he sang was ever beautiful. EVER. now some of his songs performed by people who could sing thats a different story. what century we're in has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, I always wished Barbra Streisand would record this so I can finally enjoy the song.

OH my EARS, MY BLEEDING EARS. the man needs his tongue cut out.

Heh. It's hard to not see the irony - I kinda feel that way when I read some of your less informed posts (but with "bleeding eyes" instead). I didn't know it was okay to say it out loud.

Your bleeding eyes is probably just a drug induced illusion on your part, try reading my posts without being enhanced.

Hell they may suck even more that way.