Movie Pirating

[JoeinAR 1,759]

There is some talk going on in the other thread about movie pirating.

It brings ups some interesting points.

Do you pirate movies and music.

I'm not talking about copying something already available in legitimate release, I'm talking copies of films and music before the actual release.

Do you feel its wrong, and if so why?

Do you feel its ok, and if so, how do you justify it?

I can honestly say that I once downloaded a film that was not yet available. Afterwards I regretted my actions, though I couldn't undo it. I did vow however to not do it again, and I have not.

When everyone was listening to Indy before the release date(not talking the snippets but the album) I had several well meaning folks send me access to it, but I did not partake of their offers. Instead I chose to purchase it legally.

I really try to often do what is right, and can be hard on myself if I don't. I'm not passing judgement on those that do or don't, but I think its a fair debate that can reflect well or negatively on the integrity of an individual.

It should be pointed out that this kind of activity is not allowed here, nor should it be regardless of your feelings on this subject one way or the other. Andreas and Ricard have rightfully remained above board with this controversial topic.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Nothing wrong with having access to it before the release. Reviewers get them early. Which is basically what people do when they get it early. Besides, most of them go out and buy it once it's released.

Movies on the other hand...those are bigger. Bootlegging movies can get you in bigger trouble, but I don't see anythign wrong with watching a crappy quality copy. You pretty much HAVE to go see it or buy it to get a good copy. Bootlegging DVD releases on the other hand is wrong. Personally, I don't do movies. I just grab an early soundtrack release now and then.

EDT: I'd also like to add that, generally, I'm one of the most stand-up, moral people around. I've never even stolen a pack of gum. I feel guilty about even being suspected of doing something bad.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I routinely download music. I do it because I like hearing new music before choosing whether to buy it, and the 30 second samples on amazon are useless in properly evaluating an album. And the 'unreleased music' debate has come and gone - if they don't want to charge us for it, why should it stop us acquiring it.

I also download a lot of movies, but specifically high definition ones. We don't yet have the hardware to play Blu-ray discs so it's not like anyone's losing a sale. I know there are those out there who are very anti-downloading, but look at it this way - the media industry is terrified at the freedom that digital distribution gives to consumers - it takes away the control they used to have, so they try to squash it rather than embrace it as a stunningly efficient distribution method. What I'm doing is a form of quiet protest against their refusal to acknowledge the 21st century.

[Charlie Brigden 5]

I think it depends. I've only ever downloaded one movie (RAMBO), which I liked so I'm going to buy the BD when it's out. Music-wise, I will try and obtain something pre-release if it's special (like Indy), but if I don't like it, I'll delete it and I won't buy it, I won't just keep it on my hard drive as a "well, I don't like this much, but I didn't pay for it so..." deal. But if I like it, I'll buy it, like I did with Indy. As previously said, the sound clips are not always a good method to measure them by, and with the current prices of CDs, I just can't afford to buy stuff I don't like. Other than that, I only download unreleased material or OOP stuff. If I'm not being given a chance to legally purchase it from a retailer, as opposed to a ludicrous Ebay auction, I think it's fair game. Then again, I've never been a fan of limited editions, be them CDs or collectibles.

[Quintus 5,391]

I download pirated movies and music all of the time. My conscience doesn't even come into it, I am totally fine with what I do. If I see a film which I really enjoy, I'll eventually purchase it and the same goes for music, where feasibly possible. I won't buy an entire album just because I like one track on it, I'll just get the track I like through other, numerous methods.

Downloading movies has many advantages. I don't waste money on watching movies which look good, but turn out to be crap, and I get to see films which I may never have gotten around to watching if it wasn't for the fact I can easily download them. Quite often very good films; I believe The African Queen was the last example of this.

I'm not arrogant enough to believe there is good justification for downloading pirated material, but I still couldn't care less about the moral side of the debate. I'm simply not interested in it and I won't change what I do. Does that make me a bad person? Of course it doesn't.

[MrScratch 292]

I have downloaded movies a long time ago but haven't done it in a long time. I am against it though and won't ever do it again. With music, I haven't done it in a long time (last time was ROTS) but only because there hasn't been anything I've been interested in. But if I know I am buying the album anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to download it ahead of time though. I see it like this, I know I am paying for it, the download is just a sneak preview. I would never download something that I don't intend to pay for. Quite simply, music and movies are my favorite things. They are worth it.

[King Mark 2,924]

To me "pirates" are people that go into a movie theater with a camcorder,record it and upload it online after , people that mass produce cdr's of legit c.d.'s or DVD's of movies and sell them at flea markets or on the street (operate an illegal business) ,or people selling bootlegs on ebay for profit.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

My broadband isn't fast enough to download entire movies.

[GoodMusician 53]

My track record for this is a bit... funny actually...

There was only one film that I did this with: Jurassic Park III ... yes I know I know... but as stated... this was BEFORE the film came out! ...How was I to know it was that bad lol

As far as the new Indy Release... I did partake in that as well... but to be honest, I've never seen any of the films and it was the first Indy album I'd listened to lol...

So in a way, it was a guage for wether to watch the films and see the new one... but ALSO...to kinda see what williams was up to... what he was doing.

I haven't bought the CD yet... although I'm contemplating buying the 4 cd set of all the scores... even if its just the albums... I don't have my originals anymore and it would serve a duel purpose of replacing those, being the one I don't have, and also being this new one...

So in a way... I use it as a guage... I guess it's kinda like going to Best Buy and walking around... sitting on the couches and watching the tv's... seeing which one looks best to you...

Or even more so, going to Barnes & Noble and sitting down and READING books but not buying them... MANY people do that... but no one ever complains about that...

Although I always have felt a certain aversion to that... I never felt it was that right ironically...

If I want something of quality, I'll buy it. But if not, I'll deal with the added inconvenience of it being lesser quality or such... similar to how if I don't buy the book at Barnes & Nobel, I have the added inconvenience of not being able to finish it or read it at my lesure.

Past that, anything I've downloaded is something that is simply not commercially available or viable... If it were, I know I would have bought it...

Like the "Family Plot" score... that's not available at all!

Or the complete recording sessions to "Schindlers List" ... to name a few...

Things that you cant get or that are freely available I'll do... but that's the limit. I won't download bootleg programs and such...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

There's also the rare and out-of-print releases that are only available in foreign countries like Japan and the US, so sometimes a download is the only viable option until you can actually buy it.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

When everyone was listening to Indy before the release date(not talking the snippets but the album) I had several well meaning folks send me access to it, but I did not partake of their offers. Instead I chose to purchase it legally.

Same here.

I don't download movies. High picture and sound quality are important to me.

Music, on the other hand, is a different story. If I'm gonna buy a score, and I know I'm going to buy it, I'll wait for my package to arrive (Like I did with Indy 4). Other stuff I'm curious about (i.e. The Incredible Hulk) I'll obtain otherwise because I want to hear it but not pay for it. Call it a means to satisfy my own curiosity. My score collection is massive, a good portion obtained illegally through online trading. I own every score I want to own, everything else is just mp3 files. However, a lot of the scores I trade for are bootlegs and OOP. I don't see any reason not to obtain an OOP score online. No one is going to profit if you get it from a reseller. Bootlegs and unreleased music, who cares, get what you want. I'm fine with getting in print scores too. If I'm scrolling through someone's collection picking out scores I would want, I'm not gonna check up on each one to see if they're still in print.

I miss Las Layenda...

[Docteur Qui 1,248]

The only music I download is when I need a particular track from something for, say, a friend to prepare for an audition or for my own performance benefits, and I'm not willing to buy the entire album. This is where iTunes comes in handy - where I can buy single tracks that I know I want without having to pay for the rest. Unfortunately iTunes doesn't have everything, and certianly not the majority of film scores and game music that I listen to most.

I will always pay for music by artists who deserve to have their music sold and who I support. The rare exceptions are whe I obtain a copy of an album (like recently, Speed Racer and LOST: Season 3) for a good listen, then buy the album regardless of what I think of the music - because I want to support Giacchino's art.

Unreleased music and ripped music not available are a tough one. Since I already own the original albums from the movie with the unavailable music in question, my personal belief is that it is okay to listen to and even share the music. Particularly when there is little-to-no chance of that unreleased music ever becoming legitimately available.

[publicist 4,484]

I'm with the one who said it's a legitimate tool to determine if you like something, as the typical 30-second-clip isn't anything to review soundtracks properly.

If you take away all the moralist bs, the real question is: would people buy the stuff they 'steal', anyway? If not, there wouldn't be a significant loss.

Apart from that, i find it justifiable to hunt down professional bootleggers, who distribute and sell.

[Quintus 5,391]

I don't download movies. High picture and sound quality are important to me.

Me too. That's why I only ever download excellent quality pirates.

Having said that, after seeing Indy 4 in the cinema, I did download a substandard copy of it, something I don't mind doing when I've already seen the film at the cinema. It'll tide me over until a better copy surfaces.

[Melange 446]

Movie Pirating, as well as music pirating, the Debate.

I know people who leave their computer on all day downloading entire albums of high quality music (of all genres).

With them it just seems to be a kind of 'compulsive music owning disorder' (CMOD) more than anything, as they rarely have a chance to listen to even a fraction of what they gather. What they do is their business. But it's natural that I do have a private view of that. It seems to me that they miss the point that if the person who composed that material gets 'zero' cash (or not enough in the long run to sustain their choice of career) then the artist whos music they love so much could just possibly quit and that would be the end. If I was that artist, I don't think I'd want that listener as part of my fanclub, as they ripped me off.

Yes for 'some' artiusts it's "all about the music" (man), but the majority of artists need money as they have made it their sole source of income. The "it's all about the music" artists are rare, and probably work in another job where lack of sales (or none) won't be an issue for them. But for virtually everyone else, the income they get makes or breaks their chosen field.

I fully appreciate the argument that the artists get very little percentage from the sale of onee CD and that the majority of the money lines the pockets of the big wigs who do take a huge cut, it has to be said. But the artists still get something from the sale, and if only 'some' buy it and everything else is duplicated en masse for free, then either the artist will give up or the music company themselves will not bother taking that artist on anymore because of poor sales. The argument some use is that CDs are so damn expensive that downloading them is a heroic "up yours" to the rip off industry. Maybe so. But..........

But it's also an "up yours" to the artist too, and it seems so many miss this essential thing. I personally think that people downloading one song they like, isn't as massive a dent as amassing entire albums of high quality rips. I think that 'previews' of music in this way, is a great idea. People will not feel ripped off if they buy a CD and don't like it. Yes there is a risk in that though, that people will just choose the tracks they like and never buy anything, and I believe many artists are getting fed up with people just downloading specific tracks, and ignoring the rest. An artist has put an album together in the way they want it portrayed. Downloading one track may make sense to an individual who likes a certain song, but for an artist it's like taking scenes out of the middle of a movie they made, and only watching those scenes. When there have been cases where an Mp3 has come my way, 9 times out of 10 it has inspired me to go and get both that track itself and the rest of the work on a proper CD for higher quality and artist support. In any other case where I own lots of Mp3s, it is of very unusual audio material.

Historical recordings and that sort of thing, which don't have any copyright (or expired) ownership. Or, bootlegs of cues from scores not released (or out of print). Over all I think a lot of music downloaders delude themselves that they are only harming the big wigs by downloading WHOLE albums one after another after another after another. When it comes to movies, I don't download and I don't know anyone who does. I've seen some cinema cam jobs and copys, but it's usually pointless reducing a film to such poor quality. Because it is natural for people to choose something for 'nothing' rather than shell out cash for it, this will be a difficult thing to tackle. Initially the "up yours to the music industry" downloaders probably saw their actions as a protest that would force the music industry to drop its rip off prices for CDs. But it has had the opposite effect.

Most people have simply become "Hey, music for free. Great. To hell with the cause....let's download...wohoooo!!".

Rather than put pressure on the big wigs, the big wigs are putting prices up now and any cause has fizzled out, with people just finding that if it costs nothing to download entire albums at high quality then you'd need to be mad to purchase a CD. Nowadays as people feel the pinch of food and fuel costs, it wouldn't surprise me if free downloading becomes the norm.

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...............Anyway, we delivered the bomb

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I only download porn.

Oh, wait ...

[Ollie 859]

I don't download movies. People have sent me links to them in the past but I delete them.

Yes I did receive an "advance" copy of the score to KOTCS but I was going to buy it. Other than that I don't download things that are available to the public. If it's available legally and I want it I'll buy it.

I don't download or a keep anything I have no interest in. Now there are some scores that I want that haven't been released completely or legally that are available and I'm not gonna lie and say I don't have them, but I'm also not getting any younger....

If it becomes available legally I'll buy it.

I also believe file sharing should be done in private and not advertised on message boards. If you want to buy, trade or sell legitimately released CDs on a forum that's fine but anything else should be kept to PM's.

[Taikomochi 783]

I often download music. I have no money. Deal with it.

I don't even know where you can download movies! They'd be too big for me anyways, so no on that.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The argument some use is that CDs are so damn expensive that downloading them is a heroic "up yours" to the rip off industry.

Are they really? What does 15 to 20 dollars really mean to an average American? For people in countries where the currency exchange rate isn't favorable, the average price of a CD can buy you six Big Macs. The average schoolgoing teen here gets enough pocket money to buy one CD per month...if he doesnt spend on anything else.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

I often download music. I have no money. Deal with it.

I don't even know where you can download movies! They'd be too big for me anyways, so no on that.

So that makes it right?

[Ollie 859]

Well right now $15 to $20 does mean alot to the average American. That won't even pay for a 1/2 tank of gas.

Look I understand if you can't afford it, we've all been in that position. But there are ways to obtain music privately and not brag or shout to the world what you are doing.

I personally want to make sure Intrada, FSM, Varese, LaLaLand, Percepto and any other specialty lable gets my money for their hard work.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Well right now $15 to $20 does mean alot to the average American. That won't even pay for a 1/2 tank of gas.

I see. And just to clarify, I didn't mean to come across in a demeaning or sarcastic manner in the original post.

I do try to buy what I like, but even then sometimes thats really not affordable (Varese CDs are practically nonexistant in stores here, and when they are, they cost double the usual price). Yes, I have bought about 100 CDs in the past three years or so. There were times I had to forgo outings with friends and stuff like that to save up the money. And yes, I do download music, but I try to make it a point to buy something if I find myself listening to it a lot. Do I have a bad conscience of what I'm currently doing? No.

[arathornion33 0]

I used to be a chronic LimeWire guy. I quite about a year ago for two reasons:

a) The quality of the music was absolutely horrible (I am an audiophile...)

b) It was illegal

If you don't have the money RIGHT AWAY then you WAIT and save up a little until you can afford it. So what if you can't get a hundred Cds a week now; pirating and illegal downloading is depriving someone of the reward they deserve for their honest work. I realize that a lot of music people (and movie people) are already rich enough, but that's beside the point. Btw, by chronic I mean CHRONIC! I downloaded 178 entire albums from LimeWire, burned them to Cds and everything. I have since sent all those Cds through the shredder, and file shredded the files on my computer. Now, even still I am slowly gaining my collection back by getting a CD here, a CD there. Illegal obtaining of material, and pirating is a serious blow against justice.

[King Mark 2,924]

I guess making MP3's of c.d.'s you borrow from the public library would make you a pirate and immoral person also,by the strict definition of the record industry.Same as borrowing a c.d. from a friend and copying it.

Unless you have a legally bought physical copy of a c.d. of ALL the files you own ,you may as well consider yourself a pirate

[MrScratch 292]

I guess making MP3's of c.d.'s you borrow from the public library would make you a pirate and immoral person also,by the strict definition of the record industry.Same as borrowing a c.d. from a friend and copying it.

If its for personal use only, its legal and moral. If you were to distribute those mp3s on a wide scale or sell them for profit, that would be pirating. I have made copies of library CDs and I find myself buying the ones I listen to often and throwing out or deleting the ones I don't listen to.

[King Mark 2,924]

I guess making MP3's of c.d.'s you borrow from the public library would make you a pirate and immoral person also,by the strict definition of the record industry.Same as borrowing a c.d. from a friend and copying it.

If its for personal use only, its legal and moral. If you were to distribute those mp3s on a wide scale or sell them for profit, that would be pirating. I have made copies of library CDs and I find myself buying the ones I listen to often and throwing out or deleting the ones I don't listen to.

Well,if you have Limewire or Soulseek on 24 hours a day with a gigantic shared folder of MP3's on your hard drive that some other people download ,I can see some issues. BTW I have NEVER used these programs.Unless you have a legally bought physical copy of a c.d. of ALL the files you own ,you may as well consider yourself a pirate

[vmw331 2]

Yeah, good point on the library thing....I make copies of CDs from the library, but I will buy them if they are worth it. I believe that it's ok to do only if you do not distribute it freely and make a profit from its sale. The library did purchase it, so it was originally obtained legally. I began my collection of scores and my interest in film music grew as a result of the opportunity that I had at the library to grab any score and determine which composers I liked before I bought anything.

I define "worth it" as being something that is enjoyable and can be listened to again and again with the same amount of enjoyment or even more. And also, those purhases that are "worth it" are meant to support the specialty labels, who have limited resources to put out rare or complete editions of scores. The more we support these labels, the more complete scores and limited releases we will get, so we might as well "invest" in these companies.

I do acquire bootlegs, rips, and recording sessions by way of trades because these are not released to the public and there has never been a price tag put on this stuff. So, I believe it is alright to DL or whatever to listen to scores in this format.

I don't DL movies because I like the better picture and quality, and I also like having the physical CD so that I can rip the audio from it and edit it. And also, I love DVD extras, so many DLs don't offer all of the extra content.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

What exactly are you talking about? Of course 20 bucks matter for the common guy/gal! With inflation, increasing taxes, horrendous gas/oil prices, increasing prices for food, 20 dollars/Euro is nothing to sneeze at!

I would guess buying a copy of The Dark Knight or Indiana Jones is pretty much second to that.

[King Mark 2,924]

I never downloaded a movie and never plan to .

[Ollie 859]

Well right now $15 to $20 does mean alot to the average American. That won't even pay for a 1/2 tank of gas.

I see. And just to clarify, I didn't mean to come across in a demeaning or sarcastic manner in the original post.

You have no need to clarify yourself. You didn't say anything offensive. I was just pointing out that, sadly, $20 isn't what it used to be.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I guess "pirating" was in my blood from an early age, as my dad used to copy rented VHS tapes for me once in a while. But no, I've never downloaded a film before its release. I've done that a few times with released movies - not to own or anything, I just watched them once and then deleted them. And I download random songs every now and then.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I remember my friend gave me a site that had hundreds of movies you could watch. I think it was one of those popular ones that got shut down recently. It had Ratatouille, which I saw 2 days earlier in the theater. I watched the first 20 minutes of Ghost Rider there and then I couldn't stand the move and never went back.

I'm fine with ripping music directly from sites. Most composers post unreleased tracks from their scores on their personal websites, so I use my handy dandy Download Helper and take them.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

Unless you have a legally bought physical copy of a c.d. of ALL the files you own ,you may as well consider yourself a pirate

I don't consider myself someone who commits robbery at sea. Yes, I know, the term has long been used in other contexts, but it still seems absurd. Not as bad as the common German term for illegal copies, as favoured by the content industry: "Raubkopie" (robbery copy). Because, by any legal definition, it is not robbery, and not even theft.

But then, copyright law has completely derailed during the last few decades.

[MrScratch 292]

I don't want to be a pirate!

[Richard Penna 2,082]

My dad used to really frown upon any times when we (I usually) wanted to copy a rental VHS. My parents still don't like the whole downloading thing. They even see downloading a CD before you buy it as something not to be particularly proud of.

It's definitely true that I'm more likely to give my money to a smaller label such as Varese than to a big corporation. There's also the issue of the 'big four' labels suing people all over the place, in many cases for only downloading 20 songs off Limewire. They do this to make examples of them because they know that regular people don't have the financial or legal resources to properly defend themselves - in my opinion this is completely unethical and bordering on evil behaviour, and it's partly due to this that I don't buy more music.

To put things in perspective, roughly 1/4 of my collection is paid for in some way, although quite a lot of the 'not paid' is unreleased material/boots. I occasionally buy another digital album if I find myself currently enjoying it.

K.Mark - the word 'pirates' is tossed around mainly by the recording industry to describe anyone who deals with so-called illegal copies. There's a world of difference between that and copying CDs en-masse to sell for profit. That's something I'd never ever do.

[King Mark 2,924]

There's also the issue of the 'big four' labels suing people all over the place, in many cases for only downloading 20 songs off Limewire.

That's why I never installed any of those programs even if I don' t live in the US.

Now if someone downloads a zipped folder from one of these virtual hard drive servers ,it could be any random file (photos,videos,music,porn...ect...) so they would have to know your browsing history ,sift through every one of your downloads to see if they are really MP3's and where they come from ,and at this point I don't think this kind of spying is legal even for the government unless your under investigation for a very serious crime. And you could just be storing your own files or moving them from one place to another computer...

[Richard Penna 2,082]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The industry rarely seems to have any rock solid proof that any transferring of files has actually taken place, and to do so, as you said would involve spying to a really unacceptable level. The president of the RIAA once talked about 'filters' on someone's computer as a means of 'educating' a user as to what's illegal. Who in their right state of mind would voluntarily do that, and I wonder who would set the criteria?

There's also the 'one download equals one lost sale' argument that they try. Scary thing is, the industry knows all of this, but keeps spitting out their corporate cr@p to make things sound a lot worse for 'struggling artists' than they are.

I have soulseek on my laptop, but only for obtaining boots/unreleased music. There are other unmentionables where 'normal' stuff can be found.

[King Mark 2,924]

Well,if they catch you downloading something and make you pay the itunes price fot it (1$) ,or a reasonable fine (like 100$,and not per song but as maximum amount),then that's fine .But when they want 20,000$ per track and literally ruin your life because you e-mailed a song to a friend , that is extortion.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The industry rarely seems to have any rock solid proof that any transferring of files has actually taken place, and to do so, as The president of the RIAA once talked about 'filters' on someone's computer as a means of 'educating' a user as to what's illegal.

that would make pretty much everything downloadable illegal

[Red 73]

I've never done it with movies (I don't see the appeal whatsoever) but I have downloaded music. But again, anything that I've downloaded illegally I do intend to buy, it's just a gradual process (which is made worse by being poor).

I've stepped away from it recently; I haven't done in a quite a while. Frankly I don't enjoy doing it, I feel like I'm stealing.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

It's pretty much impossible to catch you if you obtain scores through online trading, like me. Or even if you get them from a certain site that is open to the public. I had LimeWire on my old PC. I only used it every now and then if I wanted a song I heard and liked or wanted. I might download it to my Macbook, but I probably won't. I find it hilarious that when you download it, a pop up asks you if you plan to use the program for illegal activity, and it gives you a "yes" or "no" option. I wonder who says "yes".

[Quintus 5,391]

I've never done it with movies (I don't see the appeal whatsoever)

The appeal of it is this: I browse my favourite website in search of a movie to watch, I download it in under 30 mins, I quickly transfer it over to my 4Gb usb memory stick, plug it into my Xbox 360 and voila! A excellent quality movie for my viewing pleasure. I didn't have to burn the movie to disc, or sit and watch it at my pc. In a matter of minutes the film is playing on the lounge television.

Why bother getting into a car and driving to a movie rental shop? There is no longer an incentive to do so when my method is quicker and simpler. That is the appeal.

TGE - Coincidently about to watch There Will Be Blood, via the exact method described above.

[Henry B 49]

Right. And it's okay to steal merchandise from a store when the clerk isn't looking as long as you don't get caught.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Why bother getting into a car and driving to a movie rental shop? There is no longer an incentive to do so when my method is quicker and simpler. That is the appeal.

The appeal of anything is that you have to overcome certain obstacles to get it, even if that only means stopping at a red light on the way to the movies.

Why would I download a movie, even if it is high quality, to watch it on TV just like popping in a DVD? Where's the magic in that?

[Richard Penna 2,082]

Right. And it's okay to steal merchandise from a store when the clerk isn't looking as long as you don't get caught.

Ahh... classic argument. Problem with that is that in the case of a store, if you steal something, it no longer possesses the item and hasn't been compensated for it. With digital distribution, nothing is 'lost', the owner isn't missing something they had to begin with, so it's kind of hard to determine what its real value is.

Mark - people being sued for $20,000 per song is the sort of thing I'm talking about (can you believe this? we agree on something!), and yes, it's pretty much organised crime. And this isn't to hardcore uploaders, it's to single mothers, pensioners, the disabled - anyone they think they can scare a settlement out of, basically ruining their life in the process. And no evidence has ever been seen that a single cent reaches the artists - the very people the industry claims to be protecting. (if anyone's interested in this, go to www.p2pnet.net - a news site devoted to the politics of online media)

In this light, it shouldn't be too hard to see why I'm rather reluctant to give some of these people my money, and why I believe the industry is in serious trouble unless these total idiots realise they're sitting on a goldmine if only they'd somewhat relax their plans for world domination.

[pi 0]

I have walked around Manhattan and seen guys selling bootlegs, and I have called the no piracy hotline to report them.

[Henry B 49]

Right. And it's okay to steal merchandise from a store when the clerk isn't looking as long as you don't get caught.

Ahh... classic argument. Problem with that is that in the case of a store, if you steal something, it no longer possesses the item and hasn't been compensated for it. With digital distribution, nothing is 'lost', the owner isn't missing something they had to begin with, so it's kind of hard to determine what its real value is.

Yes, it is a bit different. But the fact remains that no money is made off of the merchandise.

If nobody buys music then music will not be made available. This is the bottom line that so many people try to weasel around.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

If nobody buys music then music will not be made available. This is the bottom line that so many people try to weasel around.

Don't think so.

Maybe if nobody buys the music, the big record companies will be forced to concentrate on what's important: offering the music we want without useless gimmicks and commercialism that ups the price.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

It's a real balancing act in the end. I feel good when I pay for an album (I just got The Happening from PlayDigital yersterday), but to be honest, at the current prices of like £8 per album, paying for all the music it's possible to acquire and enjoy through illegitimate means just isn't practical.

I think I read someone make the argument that at current prices, people can buy maybe 10 CDs per year (something like that, I don't remember the details), and they download any additional music they enjoy, so they're compensating the industry somewhat. CD prices still seem to be $20 or so in the US, which is about £10 - that's more than I paid for my first soundtrack CD about 6 years ago. Aren't prices generally supposed to fall as manufacturing costs drop and volumes increase? Apparently not here...

[Henry B 49]

If nobody buys music then music will not be made available. This is the bottom line that so many people try to weasel around.

Don't think so.

Maybe if nobody buys the music, the big record companies will be forced to concentrate on what's important: offering the music we want without useless gimmicks and commercialism that ups the price.

At which point people will then return to buying music.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Yes, but only after companies change their products into the more feasible range; that was the whole point, duh!