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LotR Vs Star Wars  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. Which is your favourite trilogy? Okay, you can call it a saga if you want.

    • LotR
      15
    • Star Wars
      36


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It isn't. No one is disco dancing to the LOTR music for one.

And I'm endlessly grateful for that!

What are you saying, that Star Wars is superior to LOTR because nobody's dancing to its music ...?

I'm basically saying what Mark Olivarez said in his response to Blumenkohl.

I'm sorry but the LOTR movies had nowhere near the cultural nor boxoffice appeal that Star Wars and it's two sequels had.
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Losers of the Ring seems to be doing poorly

Well I for one can live with the outcome and it seems my threads sub-title turned out to be quite fitting. I suppose it is only right that Star Wars should win, on this board. But the prequels Vs LotR argument is a joke, frankly.

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Cultural influence and box office figures don't make them better movies.

Well it makes them better at something.

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Music is for me BY FAR the leading factor in emotional impact, and the prequels do it WAY better than any of LOTR. The prequels, with their 'bad' acting and such, strike me as more of an emotional, over-acted in an almost broadway-ish fashion, epic, and I love it. I LOVE THE OVER-ACTING IN THE PREQUELS. Sure, there are bad moments, but what about Luke's "I care" from the 'perfect' original Star Wars? They were badly acted as well, and probably one of the only places in which they obliterate the prequels is in 'witty' dialogue. But, like I said, I view the prequels as more of an epic broadway-ish, emotional roller-coaster ride, and they work very well for me. I know, I know, I don't mean to turn this into an 'original vs. prequels' thread. But these are the reason I like the prequels and would choose them over LOTR. I liked the more serious approach Williams took in the score, and I like the over-all more serious tone. You can say 'bad editing'. You can say 'bad dialogue'. You can say 'bad acting'. But what makes it bad? Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen is EXTREMELY slow moving. Yet it is considered a great classic. Famous operatic masterpieces are much more 'over-acted' than anything in prequels.

I think it is safe to say that many folks movie-making sensibilities can tend to be a little narrow-minded. Is there such a thing as 'bad dialogue'? Doesn't this, in a way, add to the realism? Not saying that that is what it is doing in the prequels, but trying to get you to think outside of your box. You want storylines to be realistic, but not dialogue. Why? Because people have decided that that is the way movies should be made, therefore we end up with terms like 'bad acting' which mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Terms like 'over-acting' mean something, at least, but do not necessarily mean 'bad acting'.

The prequels do not conform to the modern movie critic's definition of 'good movie-making', but that doesn't really mean anything. In fact, I think it is a good thing.

You can say that it doesn't move you emotionally, and that is just fine. You are the one missing out, after all. But probably the reason it doesn't have impact for you is that you are watching it with a modern movie critic's mind-set, and history has proven that critics usually are a few steps behind the artists in moving the world forward in art.

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you have horrid taste colin, horrid. some day you will look back and be embarrassed.

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Colin, SW and it's SEQUELS had movie MAGIC and a beating HEART. The prequels had neither.

I'm sorry, but if a SW 'fan' attempts to convince me that TPM, AotC and even RotS had any of those qualities, they shall be met (not for the first time) with expected ridicule.

The prequels do not conform to the modern movie critic's definition of 'good movie-making', but that doesn't really mean anything.

Yes it does. It means that they're sh*t. Please forgive me for accepting the old and wisened viewpoint of the experienced, over the blind lunacy of a single fan, any day of the week.

Colin... some day you will look back and be embarrassed.

I honestly doubt that.

what makes it bad?

"Meesa Jar Jar Binks". So obvious and yet, so obvious.

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great thread and poll! i have had discussions and arguments with friends about this for years. now, i'm a huge fan of both series. i grew up watching star wars, saw empire and rotj in the theaters when they came out. star wars, original trilogy AND the prequels have a place in my heart forever. but, lord of the rings is the superior film series. as others have mentioned... the acting, story, and overall emotional intensity of LOTR are what make it the ultimate film series. after watching the lord of the rings, i feel like i've actually been on the journey with the characters. that being said, star wars did lay the foundation for LOTR, being the first major blockbusters of the modern film era. SW also has the upper hand on LOTR in a few areas. The score for LOTR... while it works tremendously in the films, isn't really listenable apart from the movies. the star wars score brings the movies to life and are essential to the quality and enjoyability of the films. the SW scores are also very listenable on cd. star wars also has the cultural impact that the LOTR films lack.

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I hope I never have to make a real choice between the two, as losing either would make me feel awfully deprived.

What would you lose? Both tell the same old story (The Departure, The Journey, The Triumph) and frankly, I'm tired of it. I don't see LOTR making any new contributions to the old concept either.

Rings takes a slew of old conventions and fuses them into something that is greater than the sum of its parts.

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Rings takes a slew of old conventions and fuses them into something that is greater than the sum of its parts.

As much as I love LOTR, I never really get that impression from it like I do with the first two SW films. In the early SW films, there is true synergy in motion- We are presented with many actors, only a few of which at the time were big names that the public knew, and we were presented with an incredible score, and some amazing shots. And the storyline was so simplistic, but so pure at the same time. The whole thing came off like it appeared from out of nowhere, until you really scrutinize and analyze where Lucas took several of the ideas from. It was also a test in how to make a movie with such a grandiose scale (at the time) under a certain budget, and I'm sure if Lucas had more funds for the first film, he wouldn't have been as hard pressed to use his imagination. This is where one of the main faults lie in the prequels- I never felt that he was at risk making the things with his lofty budget and uninspired scripts. We should have seen this coming though with Jedi, I suppose.

Ultimately, out of these two franchises, it was SW that truly exceeded in taking old archetypes/conventions and breathing a new life into them, making them something greater than their individual parts. Having said all that, LOTR is the superior trilogy. We get a real ending, and not some damn teddy bear celebration.

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The ONLY reason Star Wars has enjoyed greater financial success is because it is marketed and geared towards children, thereby making the movies accessible to the widest age ranges. If a kid wants to see a movie...mom and daddy will go along. 3 tickets...for one person. Simple film industry knowledge.

If you will let children be your judges of film quality, then I humbly call you idiots. Next up tell me Jar Jar is the coolest dude in the world.

Preposterous bullsh*t as evidence of quality superiority or cultural and literal value lands you in that category believe it or not.

What would you lose? Both tell the same old story (The Departure, The Journey, The Triumph) and frankly, I'm tired of it. I don't see LOTR making any new contributions to the old concept either.

Well, if you put half the thought you put into coming to that grand old conclusion into other movies as well, you'd realize every movie has the same old story.

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Well, if you put half the thought you put into coming to that grand old conclusion into other movies as well, you'd realize every movie has the same old story.

This is true. I forget what it is, but isn't there some definitive story that every single movie follows?

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The ONLY reason Star Wars has enjoyed greater financial success is because it is marketed and geared towards children, thereby making the movies accessible to the widest age ranges. If a kid wants to see a movie...mom and daddy will go along. 3 tickets...for one person. Simple film industry knowledge.

If you will let children be your judges of film quality, then I humbly call you idiots. Next up tell me Jar Jar is the coolest dude in the world.

Preposterous bullsh*t as evidence of quality superiority or cultural and literal value lands you in that category believe it or not.

:)

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I've seen zero evidence the the last seven years that the LotR films come even remotely close to the cultural phenomenon that Star Wars was. I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

I haven't chimed in yet because I'm very torn on my vote. I enjoy the entire Star Wars saga, although I would not argue against ANH and Empire being the best of the bunch, they are. And I also love the Rings films, which are certainly more consistent throughout, but they had the aid of the entire story already being done and being able to film them all at the same time.

Can I vote for Lord of the Rings, the novel, over both of them? :)

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As someone who witnessed both Star Wars and LOTR's impact on society I would say some of you are in denial.

And please spare me the bullsh*t about Star Wars being made for children. Adults were just as crazy about it.

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No...I suppose all that complex dialogue and highly depthful characters were written for mature adults who want something more than something to watch popcorn to. So it seems they are very culturally and emotionally superior films...I mean...you know...they even provide commentary on the human condition: "We don't serve their kind here!" Priceless!

I mean...just compare the sheer stupidty of Sam being forced to leave his best friend Frodo as a manifestation of the power of the ring over all parties involved...and the tightly woven and depthful ditching of Luke and the Rebels by Han in Star Wars over greed.

And please spare me the bullsh*t about Star Wars being made for children. Adults were just as crazy about it.

There is no...bullsh*t. Star Wars is a fairy tale for young whipper-snappers .

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LotR is pretty great, but if Peter Jackson had directed the scene where Luke finds his aunt and uncle's charred remains there would be a five minute slow-mo shot of Luke weeping profusely while uplifting string music plays. Star Wars accomplishes more by suggestion. We don't have to see Luke emote; we understand that he does off screen but that the film must move on.

The power of the Ring is very comparable to the lure of the Dark Side, at least in Star Wars and Empire.

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Can I vote for Lord of the Rings, the novel, over both of them? :)

Agreed. The novel by J. R. R. Tolkien set to Revenge of the Sith music :)

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LotR is pretty great, but if Peter Jackson had directed the scene where Luke finds his aunt and uncle's charred remains there would be a five minute slow-mo shot of Luke weeping profusely while uplifting string music plays. Star Wars accomplishes more by suggestion. We don't have to see Luke emote; we understand that he does off screen but that the film must move on.

OK first off, you don't understand Peter Jackson. If he had done that scene, Luke would be stepping into a puddle of burning guts that squished around and caused blood to spurt everywhere. :)

Anyways, how can you focus on what Luke is emoting when you're asking yourself what the hell the Stormtroopers were thinking when they decided to burn Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen. To this day that remains one of the biggest Obvious Plot Device? moments in Star Wars.

The only Star Wars movie to achieve even borderline cerebral is Empire Strikes Back...especially towards the end.

I don't know why we are even debating this. Lucas himself has said exactly what I am saying:

"So when I got done with Graffiti, I said, "Look, you know something else has happened, and I began to stretch it [star Wars] down to younger people, 10 to 12-year-olds" - George Lucas

Now you may have been 10-12 years old when Star Wars came out, and that is probably why it sticks with you as an adult, but that doesn't mean it's an adult oriented movie.

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Anyways, how can you focus on what Luke is emoting when you're asking yourself what the hell the Stormtroopers were thinking when they decided to burn Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen. To this day that remains one of the biggest Obvious Plot Device? moments in Star Wars.

You were expecting the evil Empire to politely move along when they didn't find the droids? The first half of the film spends a lot of time emphasizing what bastards the Imperials are.

I don't know why we are even debating this. Lucas himself has said exactly what I am saying:

"So when I got done with Graffiti, I said, "Look, you know something else has happened, and I began to stretch it [star Wars] down to younger people, 10 to 12-year-olds" - George Lucas

Now you may have been 10-12 years old when Star Wars came out, and that is probably why it sticks with you as an adult, but that doesn't mean it's an adult movie.

Did Lucas say that in 1977, or is it his usual revisionism? :) Of course Star Wars appeals to children, but it can be equally appreciated by adults. Very much like The Wizard of Oz.

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I agree with both Henry and Blume, so...

On one hand- I believe that the first two SW films were brilliant because they showed, as Luc Besson would say, a "respect" towards childhood- They could be appreciated by both kids and adults, and that was part of the genius of the first two films. However, for whatever convoluted reason, Lucas decided to go the other with with both Jedi and the three prequels. I was squirming with uncomfort when I heard some of the lines in TPM. Terrible, terrible writing....

There's no doubt that LOTR is far more mature than SW. Tolkien had such a clear view of what right and wrong was, and what he wanted to show in the characters in terms of perseverance. It's damn inspiring to watch, especially when we get that beautiful line, "No my friends. You bow to no one."

Damn, I'm kinda on the sidelines on this one. Like John said, we should be able to vote for the books as well...

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I loved the books but I thought the movies were extremely flawed. The amount of recognition they got really pains me because it won't be anytime soon before I see a decent movie adaption of the books.

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Star Wars was a universal success, everyone saw it no matter old they were. Whether it was originally marketing to kids is irrelevant, it rose much higher than that at the time of it's release.

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If you're going to keep brining finance into this...

Answer me this...the best selling DVD's of all time?

How about...most rented DVD's of all time?/

Best selling orchestral soundtrack of the 2000s thus far?

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If you're going to keep brining finance into this...

Answer me this...the best selling DVD's of all time?

How about...most rented DVD's of all time?/

Best selling orchestral soundtrack of the 2000s thus far?

I don't think DVDs were around when Star Wars came out. Nor were the 2000s.

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Star Wars is great and all, but seriously, it's a dated movie. I would only like the original theatrical release, but Lucas is a douche and has to change everything. My homecoming video spoofed Star Wars a couple years back and it had just as good special effects.

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SW hasn't dated at all, at least for me. And I believe Lucas did release the original theatrical version last year.

If you're going to keep brining finance into this...

Answer me this...the best selling DVD's of all time?

How about...most rented DVD's of all time?/

Best selling orchestral soundtrack of the 2000s thus far?

I don't think DVDs were around when Star Wars came out. Nor were the 2000s.

Very true!

indy4 - who understands and partially agrees with what Blu is saying, but still prefers SW by a narrow margin

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Star Wars is great and all, but seriously, it's a dated movie.

I know! You can really pick that it was made during the Carter Administration, the Cold War, the post-Vietnam era, the sexual revolution, hard rock and disco!

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I don't think DVDs were around when Star Wars came out. Nor were the 2000s.

Right...over...your...head.

I don't think Lord of the Rings films have been around 31 years to make a fair comparison. We can only judge the impact they've had per the conditions of the market they are in.

Let me break it down in simple numbers to you. The year Star Wars came out, there were ~100 movies that were released. The year that Fellowship of the Ring came out there were ~500 movies that were released. Add to that the fact that when Star Wars came out, unemployment figures were nearly double what they were when the three Rings films came out, and historically, unemployment seems to yield greater movie attendance. Add to that the home video environment, which cut down the movie-going audiences...

So let see: a more diversified market with 5 times more options and far less potential customers...and still kicking ass. You do the rest.

Need I remind you, the Rings series are among the only film franchises to have consistently increasing grosses, both domestic and worldwide and in home video sales from movie to movie?

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Not counting the prequels, I like all LOTR and Star Wars movies and scores. Even ROTJ, the worst of the bunch, is still entertaining despite some big problems.

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LotR is pretty great, but if Peter Jackson had directed the scene where Luke finds his aunt and uncle's charred remains there would be a five minute slow-mo shot of Luke weeping profusely while uplifting string music plays.

Purely speculation of course.

The lure of the Dark Side is very comparable to the power of the Ring, at least in Star Wars and Empire.

Corrected :P

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I don't think DVDs were around when Star Wars came out. Nor were the 2000s.

Right...over...your...head.

I don't think Lord of the Rings films have been around 31 years to make a fair comparison. We can only judge the impact they've had per the conditions of the market they are in.

Let me break it down in simple numbers to you. The year Star Wars came out, there were ~100 movies that were released. The year that Fellowship of the Ring came out there were ~500 movies that were released. Add to that the fact that when Star Wars came out, unemployment figures were nearly double what they were when the three Rings films came out, and historically, unemployment seems to yield greater movie attendance. Add to that the home video environment, which cut down the movie-going audiences...

So let see: a more diversified market with 5 times more options and far less potential customers...and still kicking ass. You do the rest.

Need I remind you, the Rings series are among the only film franchises to have consistently increasing grosses, both domestic and worldwide and in home video sales from movie to movie?

Nice statistics, but they don't really account for the cultural phenomenon of Star Wars (which Jedi killed). In 1977 Star Wars was a radical change in Hollywood. The Rings films were damned good, but they didn't begin a new era in film making. And anyway, this thread is about our opinions, not hard numbers. You still haven't really fleshed out your idea that Star Wars is just a kiddie movie.

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Nice statistics, but they don't really account for the cultural phenomenon of Star Wars (which Jedi killed). In 1977 Star Wars was a radical change in Hollywood.

Pardon me, but how do you know? You weren't even born. Return Of The Jedi did not "kill" the phenomenon at all. It in fact added to it. This isn't news, its memory.

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Nice statistics, but they don't really account for the cultural phenomenon of Star Wars (which Jedi killed). In 1977 Star Wars was a radical change in Hollywood.

Pardon me, but how do you know? You weren't even born. Return Of The Jedi did not "kill" the phenomenon at all. It in fact added to it. This isn't news, its memory.

Mm... so I exaggerated. But within just three or four years after the release of Jedi, Star Wars was dead. I believe that had Jedi been a better film the popularity might have been sustained and led to the prequels being made much sooner.

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Nice statistics, but they don't really account for the cultural phenomenon of Star Wars (which Jedi killed). In 1977 Star Wars was a radical change in Hollywood.

Pardon me, but how do you know? You weren't even born. Return Of The Jedi did not "kill" the phenomenon at all. It in fact added to it. This isn't news, its memory.

Mm... so I exaggerated. But within just three or four years after the release of Jedi, Star Wars was dead.

Hang on, no it wasn't. Sorry, but what exactly are you going on about?

I believe that had Jedi been a better film the popularity might have been sustained and led to the prequels being made much sooner.

Therein lies your folly - Return of the Jedi was ALWAYS a popular film. The prequels happened much later simply because Lucas was busy with other things. Critical reception of the final SW movie had nothing to do with it. Nor did the boxoffice, surprisingly enough.

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