The Official Pop and Rock Music thread

[Wojo 2,456]

Eh, I can never hear Robert Plant over my own wailing and drumming my hands off the dashboard.

[Koray Savas 2,254]

It's heeeeere!

Holy mother of god! It's gorgeous!!! They put a lot of care into this set.

[Wojo 2,456]

The Zep set?

[Jay 38,847]

Of course

[Koray Savas 2,254]

Yes, my Zeps arrived. I knew it was going to be awesome from the pictures, but it's completely different when you're holding them.

[Wojo 2,456]

I knew it was going to be awesome from the pictures, but it's completely different when you're holding them.

Oh, there are so many things to say to that...

[Koray Savas 2,254]

When they say replica, they mean it. I wish all cases were like these, makes me want to have been around when LPs were the standard. It's understandable that the normal price is $180. Definitely worth it.

[Jay 38,847]

Arg, you're making me want to drop another $110 when I just bought a new digital camera this week and a bunch of cds/dvds/book last week...... damn the interwebs!

[Koray Savas 2,254]

I know how you feel.

[Jay 38,847]

I see via your last.fm tag in your profile that you are listening to your new Zeppelin box through your computer

PLEASE tell me you are NOT listening to this awesome new remastered boxset through LAPTOP SPEAKERS?

[Koray Savas 2,254]

Uh oh.

[Jay 38,847]

Oh man. Can you ever hear a different between the new remasters and the old editions through laptop speakers?

[Koray Savas 2,254]

No, lol, but I bought this set because all I owned before were the Best Of volumes.

[Jay 38,847]

Next time you have $100 lying around, instead of buying more CDs you should buy yourself a nice set of speakers for your bedroom

[Koray Savas 2,254]

I've been thinking about it. I look around online sometimes. But my problem is 1) I always say to myself, I could get a lot of music for this price and 2) I don't really know the difference between good speakers and average/below average speakers.

Example: I've been eying some $50 speakers I found at Apple.com, but they're only 1 inch in diameter and height. All the reviews says they're good, but I have a gut feeling the quality is gonna suck since they're smaller than an iPod.

[Jay 38,847]

Apple speakers are very over-priced

Get something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836116024

Or this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121034

Or this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836113017

Or this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836116040

[Koray Savas 2,254]

I'm likin' the look and price of these speakers.

[Wojo 2,456]

Oh man. Can you ever hear a different between the new remasters and the old editions through laptop speakers?

I have a legless friend who collects expensive running shoes. I never understood it either.

[Jay 38,847]

I'm likin' the look and price of these speakers.

So it receives its sound through USB? I'd prefer something that receives its sound via headphone jack, so you could use it with an ipod or ipod docking station as well..... but, whatever you are comfortable with! Anything's better than what you got

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Honestly, I'd forget about all those PC speakers. I had a hard time finding a set of sounds during my first semester at college and none of those $30 to even $80 sets impressed me. I'm no audiophile, but I do appreciate decent sound and my standard audio gear in those first few speaker-less days were my Shure SE210s. In the end I settled for a Griffin Amplifi iPod dock. Its simple (and very loud), with only a volume knob, its got a huge bass which you'll have to dial down a bit via equalizer, its highs are a little on the harsh side and the mids could be a touch richer. However, its said to be only just slightly worse than the Bose Sounddock in terms of sound quality and at $150, its half the price. Plus I got it on a Christmas deal for $75. I'm satisfied.

[Koray Savas 2,254]

Maybe we should move this conversation to the headphones thread in Other Topics.

[Jay 38,847]

Alright, using wikipedia I've resorted the Beatles box set into a nice (mostly) chronological order.


In other words, if I was in charge...... this is how I would have released the box:


CD1 : 1963
Please Please Me LP (March 22 1963)

• 1 I Saw Her Standing There
• 2 Misery
• 3 Anna (Go to Him)
• 4 Chains
• 5 Boys
• 6 Ask Me Why
• 7 Please Please Me
• 8 Love Me Do
• 9 P.S. I Love You
• 10 Baby It's You
• 11 Do You Want to Know a Secret
• 12 A Taste of Honey
• 13 There's a Place
• 14 Twist and Shout

From Me To You / Thank You Girl Single (April 11 1963)

• 15 From Me To You
• 16 Thank You Girl

She Loves You / I'll Get You Single (August 23 1963)

• 17 She Loves You
• 18 I'll Get You

With The Beatles LP (Nov 22 1963)

• 19 It Won't Be Long
• 20 All I've Got to Do
• 21 All My Loving
• 22 Don't Bother Me
• 23 Little Child
• 24 Till There Was You
• 25 Please Mr. Postman
• 26 Roll Over Beethoven
• 27 Hold Me Tight
• 28 You Really Got a Hold on Me
• 29 I Wanna Be Your Man
• 30 Devil in Her Heart
• 31 Not a Second Time
• 32 Money (That's What I Want)

I Want To Hold Your Hand / This Boy Single (Nov 29 1963)

• 33 I Want To Hold Your Hand
• 34 This Boy

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 78:34


CD2: 1964
Long Tall Sally EP (June 19 1964)

• 1 Long Tall Sally
• 2 I Call Your Name
• 3 Slow Down
• 4 Matchbox

A Hard Day's Night LP (July 10 1964)

• 5 A Hard Day's Night
• 6 I Should Have Known Better
• 7 If I Fell
• 8 I'm Happy Just to Dance with You
• 9 And I Love Her
• 10 Tell Me Why
• 11 Can't Buy Me Love
• 12 Any Time at All
• 13 I'll Cry Instead
• 14 Things We Said Today
• 15 When I Get Home
• 16 You Can't Do That
• 17 I'll Be Back

I Feel Fine / She's A Woman Single (November 27 1964)

• 18 I Feel Fine
• 19 She's A Woman

Beatles For Sale LP (December 4 1964)

• 20 No Reply
• 21 I'm a Loser
• 22 Baby's in Black
• 23 Rock and Roll Music
• 24 I'll Follow the Sun
• 25 Mr. Moonlight
• 26 Kansas City/Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
• 27 Eight Days a Week
• 28 Words of Love
• 29 Honey Don't
• 30 Every Little Thing
• 31 I Don't Want to Spoil the Party
• 32 What You're Doing
• 33 Everybody's Trying to Be My Baby

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 78:12


CD3: 1965
Help! LP (August 6 1965)

• 1 Help!
• 2 The Night Before
• 3 You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
• 4 I Need You
• 5 Another Girl
• 6 You're Going to Lose That Girl
• 7 Ticket to Ride
• 8 Act Naturally
• 9 It's Only Love
• 10 You Like Me Too Much
• 11 Tell Me What You See
• 12 I've Just Seen a Face
• 13 Yesterday
• 14 Dizzy Miss Lizzy

Ticket To Ride / Yes It Is Single (April 9 1965)

• 15 Yes It Is

Help! / I'm Down Single (July 23 1965)

• 16 I'm Down

We Can Work It Out / Day Tripper Single (December 3 1965)

• 17 We Can Work It Out
• 18 Day Tripper

Rubber Soul LP (December 3rd 1965)

• 19 Drive My Car
• 20 Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)
• 21 You Won't See Me
• 22 Nowhere Man
• 23 Think for Yourself
• 24 The Word
• 25 Michelle
• 26 What Goes On
• 27 Girl
• 28 I'm Looking Through You
• 29 In My Life
• 30 Wait
• 31 If I Needed Someone
• 32 Run for Your Life

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 79:31


CD4: 1966
Paperback Writer / Rain Single (June 10 1966)

• 1 Paperback Writer
• 2 Rain

Revolver LP (August 5 1966)

• 3 Taxman
• 4 Eleanor Rigby
• 5 I'm Only Sleeping
• 6 Love You To
• 7 Here, There and Everywhere
• 8 Yellow Submarine
• 9 She Said She Said
• 10 Good Day Sunshine
• 11 And Your Bird Can Sing
• 12 For No One
• 13 Doctor Robert
• 14 I Want to Tell You
• 15 Got to Get You Into My Life
• 16 Tomorrow Never Knows

A Collection Of Beatles Oldies LP (Dec 10 1966)

• 17 Bad Boy

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 42:17


CD5: 1967
Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever Single (February 17 1967)

• 1 Penny Lane
• 2 Strawberry Fields Forever

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band LP (June 1 1967)

• 3 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
• 4 With a Little Help from My Friends
• 5 Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
• 6 Getting Better
• 7 Fixing a Hole
• 8 She's Leaving Home
• 9 Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!
• 10 Within You Without You
• 11 When I'm Sixty-Four
• 12 Lovely Rita
• 13 Good Morning Good Morning
• 14 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)
• 15 A Day in the Life

All You Need Is Love / Baby, You're A Rich Man Single (July 7 1967)

• 16 All You Need Is Love
• 17 Baby, You're A Rich Man

Hello Goodbye / I Am The Walrus Single (Nov 24 1967)

• 18 Hello Goodbye

Magical Mystery Tour EP (Dec 8 1967)

• 19 Magical Mystery Tour
• 20 Your Mother Should Know
• 21 I Am The Walrus
• 22 The Fool On The Hill
• 23 Flying
• 24 Blue Jay Way

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 76:18


CD6: 1968 (Part 1)
The Beatles LP (November 22 1968) - Sides 1 and 2

• 1 Back in the U.S.S.R.
• 2 Dear Prudence
• 3 Glass Onion
• 4 Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da
• 5 Wild Honey Pie
• 6 The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill
• 7 While My Guitar Gently Weeps
• 8 Happiness Is a Warm Gun
• 9 Martha My Dear
• 10 I'm So Tired
• 11 Blackbird
• 12 Piggies
• 13 Rocky Raccoon
• 14 Don't Pass Me By
• 15 Why Don't We Do It in the Road?
• 16 I Will
• 17 Julia

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 46:16


CD7: 1968 (Part 2)
The Beatles LP (November 22 1968) - Sides 3 and 4

• 1 Birthday
• 2 Yer Blues
• 3 Mother Nature's Son
• 4 Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey
• 5 Sexy Sadie
• 6 Helter Skelter
• 7 Long, Long, Long
• 8 Revolution 1
• 9 Honey Pie
• 10 Savoy Truffle
• 11 Cry Baby Cry
• 12 Revolution 9
• 13 Good Night

Lady Madonna / The Inner Light Single (March 15 1968)

• 14 Lady Madonna
• 15 The Inner Light

Hey Jude / Revolution Single (August 30 1968)

• 16 Hey Jude
• 17 Revolution

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 62:38


CD8: 1969
Yellow Submarine LP (January 17 1969)

• 1 Only A Northern Song
• 2 All Together Now
• 3 Hey Bullfrog
• 4 It's All Too Much

Get Back / Don't Let Me Down Single (April 11 1969)

• 5 Don't Let Me Down

The Ballad Of John And Yoko / Old Brown Shoes Single (May 30th 1969)

• 6 The Ballad Of John And Yoko
• 7 Old Brown Shoes

Abbey Road LP (September 26 1969)

• 8 Come Together
• 9 Something
• 10 Maxwell's Silver Hammer
• 11 Oh! Darling
• 12 Octopus's Garden
• 13 I Want You (She's So Heavy)
• 14 Here Comes the Sun
• 15 Because
• 16 You Never Give Me Your Money
• 17 Sun King
• 18 Mean Mr. Mustard
• 19 Polythene Pam
• 20 She Came in Through the Bathroom Window
• 21 Golden Slumbers
• 22 Carry That Weight
• 23 The End
• 24 Her Majesty

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 72:15


CD9: 1970
Let It Be LP (May 8 1970)

• 1 Two of Us
• 2 Dig a Pony
• 3 Across the Universe
• 4 I Me Mine
• 5 Dig It
• 6 Let It Be
• 7 Maggie Mae
• 8 I've Got a Feeling
• 9 One After 909
• 10 The Long and Winding Road
• 11 For You Blue
• 12 Get Back

Let It Be / You Know My Name (Look Up The Number) Single (March 6 1970)

• 13 You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)

BONUS TRACKS
Love Me Do / P.S. I Love You Single (Oct 5 1962)

• 14 Love Me Do (Single Version)

Komm, Gib Mir Deine Hand / Sie Liebt Dich German Single (March 5 1964)

• 15 I Want To Hold Your Hand (German Version)
• 16 She Loves You (German Version)

Get Back / Don't Let Me Down Single (April 11 1969)

• 17 Get Back (Single Version)

No One's Gonna Change Our World LP (Dec 12 1969)

• 18 Across The Universe ("Wildlife" Version)

Let It Be / You Know My Name (Look Up The Number) Single (March 6 1970)

• 19 Let It Be (Single Version)

Anthology 1 (Nov 20 1995)

• 20 Free As A Bird

Anthology 2 (March 18 1996)

• 21 Real Love

TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 65:44


It's basically everything from the box set, minus the George Martin instrumental stuff from Yellow Submarine, minus the duplicate appearance of the track "Yellow Submarine", and with the two "new" Beatles songs from 1995.

I COULD have fit everything on 8 discs (exactly half of the box set's 16 discs), but then I would have had to spread some of the single-LPs over multiple discs, and I didn't want to do that.

Thoughts?

[Koray Savas 2,254]

You said none of my above mentioned bands started to play music because of The Beatles. For the moment I don't have a Led Zeppelin quote. But they started with their band when The Beatles were at their creative peak. Without the success of The Beatles, there would be no Zeppelin.

In the liner notes of The Song Remains The Same, Cameron Crowe talks about how Led Zeppelin was influenced by Little Richard and musicians of the like. It was the Blues that eventually led to the formation of Zeppelin, it's very evident in their songs.

[A24 4,514]

You said none of my above mentioned bands started to play music because of The Beatles. For the moment I don't have a Led Zeppelin quote. But they started with their band when The Beatles were at their creative peak. Without the success of The Beatles, there would be no Zeppelin.

In the liner notes of The Song Remains The Same, Cameron Crowe talks about how Led Zeppelin was influenced by Little Richard and musicians of the like. It was the Blues that eventually led to the formation of Zeppelin, it's very evident in their songs.

Well, Little Richard also influenced Paul McCartney. And the sound of Led Zeppelin is much more than just Blues or Rock and Roll. The Beatles were the bridge between old style pop and everything after The Beatles They opened the door for all later bands (the '70s psychedelic rock, the symphonic rock, etc.)

[Diego 21]

Guess I won't have to do Past Masters Disc 2 now Jason. Anyway, you forgot Bad Boy and also keep in mind that what you did is the released order, if you want to listen in the order it was recorded "Yellow Submarine" comes before "The Beatles" and "Let It Be" comes before "Abbey Road"

[Marian Schedenig 8,816]

However, its said to be only just slightly worse than the Bose Sounddock in terms of sound quality and at $150, its half the price.

Then again, Bose is said to be pretty much the worst thing you can get, and at a really high price, too.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

However, its said to be only just slightly worse than the Bose Sounddock in terms of sound quality and at $150, its half the price.

Then again, Bose is said to be pretty much the worst thing you can get, and at a really high price, too.

Its true that they are incredibly overpriced, but I don't think they are the worst thing you can get (especially considering the type of speakers being discussed). At the very least they don't sound like they are gagged and dunked underwater.

[Marian Schedenig 8,816]

I've never heard any myself, but I've read enough serious reviews to believe that they're all effect and no substance.

They must still be miles better than any laptop speakers I've evern heard. But I suppose if you have the budget for whatever set of Bose speakers, you can probably afford something better.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,238]

Guess I won't have to do Past Masters Disc 2 now Jason. Anyway, you forgot Bad Boy and also keep in mind that what you did is the released order, if you want to listen in the order it was recorded "Yellow Submarine" comes before "The Beatles" and "Let It Be" comes before "Abbey Road"

You're quite right, Diego, but can you tell me exactly when "All Together Now", "Hey, Bulldog", and "It's All Too Much" (IMO a forgotten classic-still prefer the "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" mix, though) were recorded? Before, or during "The Beatles" sessions? P.s., in my collection "Abbey Road" comes after "Let It Be", as I cannot accept that LIB could ever be the last thing that The Beatles did! Having said that, "LIB...Naked" is a HUGE improvement.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I've never heard any myself, but I've read enough serious reviews to believe that they're all effect and no substance.

They must still be miles better than any laptop speakers I've evern heard. But I suppose if you have the budget for whatever set of Bose speakers, you can probably afford something better.

To be fair though, for speakers that tiny, they are rather impressive. But yes you can get better for the same amount of money if you discount size.

[Diego 21]

Guess I won't have to do Past Masters Disc 2 now Jason. Anyway, you forgot Bad Boy and also keep in mind that what you did is the released order, if you want to listen in the order it was recorded "Yellow Submarine" comes before "The Beatles" and "Let It Be" comes before "Abbey Road"

You're quite right, Diego, but can you tell me exactly when "All Together Now", "Hey, Bulldog", and "It's All Too Much" (IMO a forgotten classic-still prefer the "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" mix, though) were recorded? Before, or during "The Beatles" sessions? P.s., in my collection "Abbey Road" comes after "Let It Be", as I cannot accept that LIB could ever be the last thing that The Beatles did! Having said that, "LIB...Naked" is a HUGE improvement.

Well, it's a bit tricky, "All Together Now" and "It's All Too Much" were recorded even before the Magical Mystery Tour sessions (and even before Pepper had been released!). "All Together Now" was first recorded on May 12th, 1967 and "It's All Too Much" on May 25th with overdubs on June 2nd. Both Songs however were mixed during the MMT sessions and "It's all Too Much" even got another remix during the White Album sessions in 1968.

"Hey Bulldog" was recorded on February 11th, 1968, while The Beatles were filming the promo for Lady Madonna in the studio, they decided to record something and "Hey Bulldog" was the result. That's why I would place them after MMT but before the White Album.

[Jay 38,847]

On 9/11/2009 at 11:51 AM, Diego said:

Guess I won't have to do Past Masters Disc 2 now Jason. Anyway, you forgot Bad Boy and also keep in mind that what you did is the released order, if you want to listen in the order it was recorded "Yellow Submarine" comes before "The Beatles" and "Let It Be" comes before "Abbey Road"

 

 

No, I have Bad Boy up there - its on my 1966 disc since there was no room for it on the 1965 disc (and it was first released in the UK in 1966 anyway).

 

I did make one mistake though, I repeated "All You Need Is Love" - I didn't notice that it was on the YS album. What an annoying album, repeating 2 previously released songs and filling up half of it with underscore. They should delete it from the "official" collection and move the remaining 4 tracks to Past Masters. Same with Magical Mystery Tour album... The Long Tall Sally EP stuff is on there, why shouldn't the MMT EP material be there too? Just because it was released in the US with a bunch of singles? So were tons of other stuff. I dunno....

 

That's a good point about recording order vs release order, too. In fact, I think if I make some changes, I could fit the whole thing on 8 discs and still have it be listenable and mostly chronological... hmmm.

[Diego 21]

The thing with Magical Mystery Tour is that a lot of people felt at the time, and still today, that the US album works very well (I agree). Also, unlike the other US albums, it's only made up of the MMT EP and singles from 1967, so it's not like it's mixing two albums and singles (for example the US album Beatles 65, has songs from "A Hard Day's Night", "Beatles for Sale" and the "I Feel Fine" single, which makes it an incomplete replacement for any of those two albums). So at the time the first CDs came out it made sense to release as part of the UK canon, as the tracks were not available in any of the UK albums, except for "All you Need is Love".

[Jay 38,847]

Hmm, I see what you're saying, and I think I agree. However, its a shame that when they re-established canon when the CDs came out, they didn't move the 4 Yellow Submarine only songs somewhere else instead of keeping that album in the canon. Its not a true Beatles LP if you ask me, being half George Martin underscore.

[Koray Savas 2,254]

Okay guys, it's no longer Zeppelin vs. Beatles but Dylan vs. Beatles.

I watched I'm Not There yesterday, and got into the Bobby D mood. I can get 14 albums (nearly completing my collection), Fallout 3 GOTY, and 2001: A Space Odyssey on Blu for the nice price of $187. Or... I could just get The Beatles stereo set for $180.

I think I'm going to have side against The Beatles, once again. $7 Dylan albums are hard to resist.

[Jay 38,847]

OK, so this morning on the way to work, I listened to some Beatles in the car for the first time...... and holy cow! What is up with the stereo separation?? The vocals are way on the right, and the music on the left.... is that how they really used to do things in the 60's??

I think I'll have to get the mono box and use that for most of the early stuff. At what point did they start making "normal" stereo mixes?

[Koray Savas 2,254]

Yeah I hate when they split the vocals and instruments. I think a few of my songs off their compilations CDs are like that. It especially was terrible when one earbud would stop producing sound, so all I would hear is vocals.

[Jay 38,847]

Alright, after some research, it seems that all of their stuff through 1967 is best in mono, I believe.

 

And that everything from 1969 and 1970 (Yellow Submarine, Abbey Road, Let It Be, and I assume the singles from that era as well) have proper stereo mixes. So my only question is for 1968 stuff - "The Beatles" double-LP and the 1968 singles Lady Madonna/The Inner Light and Hey Jude / Revolution - are those good stereo mixes or bad ones?

 

I wouldn't be able to tell from the speakers I have here at work or I'd just listen.

 

EDIT: Just read this lengthy review on Amazon... he basically says mono is best for everything, except Hard Day's Night, Beatles For Sale, Magical Mystery Tour, and the last 3 albums.

[Diego 21]

Well, to start, Abbey Road and Let it Be don't have mono releases, and Help! and Rubber Soul were remixed in 1987 for the first CD release, so those don't sound bad in stereo and those are the mixes in the new remastered set. Sgt. Pepper and the White Album are difficult because there are a number of differences between the mixes, for example "She's leaving home" is slower in stereo and is a semi-tone lower in pitch than the mono mix, "Helter Skelter" is about a minute shorter in mono and so on...

[Naïve Old Fart 10,238]

The thing with Magical Mystery Tour is that a lot of people felt at the time, and still today, that the US album works very well (I agree). Also, unlike the other US albums, it's only made up of the MMT EP and singles from 1967, so it's not like it's mixing two albums and singles (for example the US album Beatles 65, has songs from "A Hard Day's Night", "Beatles for Sale" and the "I Feel Fine" single, which makes it an incomplete replacement for any of those two albums). So at the time the first CDs came out it made sense to release as part of the UK canon, as the tracks were not available in any of the UK albums, except for "All you Need is Love".

Hmm, I see what you're saying, and I think I agree. However, its a shame that when they re-established canon when the CDs came out, they didn't move the 4 Yellow Submarine only songs somewhere else instead of keeping that album in the canon. Its not a true Beatles LP if you ask me, being half George Martin underscore.

OK, so this morning on the way to work, I listened to some Beatles in the car for the first time...... and holy cow! What is up with the stereo separation?? The vocals are way on the right, and the music on the left.... is that how they really used to do things in the 60's??

I think I'll have to get the mono box and use that for most of the early stuff. At what point did they start making "normal" stereo mixes?

O.k., there is a lot of stuff to get through, so here goes...

Firstly, I like MMT a lot, but I do not regard it as canon (the C.D., that is, NOT the E.P.) even though I would not even contemplate it not being in my Beatles collection. The problem that I have is this: there are too many singles on it. The Beatles were always careful to release singles seperately from their albums, thus giving fans "value for money". It smacks of Capitol money-men trying to make a fast buck at The Beatles' expense. The Beatles always hated that they had little control over their overseas output. Having said that, MMT is rather good, and contains one of my all-time top 5 Beatles songs; namely "Baby, You're A Rich Man". This, coupled with the fact that all the songs date from 1967, make it an essential part of the catalogue. A delux "Sgt. Pepper" would not go amiss.

I disagree with my friends suggestion that the "Yellow Submarine" songs should be placed on another L.P. (or C.D.). My question to you is: "where?" Since these songs were written and recorded over a period of at least 15 months, which L.P. (or C.D.) do they go on? Personally I am happy with "Yellow Submarine" as it is, but I feel that EMI should have taken the oppertunity to release the complete George Martin score (not unlike "Live And Let Die").

The question of "normal" stereo mixes is a good one. I like the mixes for (for example) "The Beatles", but I would not say that many of the mixes are "normal", especially in the context of what we the listeners take for granted to be normal, these days. The Beatles and George Martin did the best that they could with the technonolgy available, and, most of the time, the results are stunning. I'm sure that every Beatles fan would like to re-mix at least some of their songs, if they had the oppertunity, myself included, and the recent (ish) re-mixes on "Yellow Submarine Songtrack", "1", "Let It Be...Naked", and "Love", are fine examples.

Out of interest, I think that the first L.P. to be given a primarilly stereo mix is "Abbey Road". By that, I mean that multi-track recording had progressed to the point of The Beatles not needing to "bounce" tracks.

[Diego 21]

In the UK, Yellow Submarine was actually the first LP to be released only in stereo (with the exception of "Only a northern song" which due to complications during mixing was only mixed in mono). In the US, the White Album was the first to be released only in stereo and that's why the mono mix is not very well known, even if there are many songs with differences in the mono mix (Back to the USSR, Don't Pass Me By, I Will, Helter Skelter, Why Don't We Do In The Road, Piggies)

[Naïve Old Fart 10,238]

In the UK, Yellow Submarine was actually the first LP to be released only in stereo (with the exception of "Only a northern song" which due to complications during mixing was only mixed in mono). In the US, the White Album was the first to be released only in stereo and that's why the mono mix is not very well known, even if there are many songs with differences in the mono mix (Back to the USSR, Don't Pass Me By, I Will, Helter Skelter, Why Don't We Do In The Road, Piggies)

Thank's for the heads up, Diego! Bye the bye, what exactly is different about the mono mixes for "The Beatles"? P.s., thanks also for the info. on the "Yellow Submarine" songs.

[Jay 38,847]

On 9/17/2009 at 0:45 PM, Richard said:

O.k., there is a lot of stuff to get through, so here goes...

Firstly, I like MMT a lot, but I do not regard it as canon (the C.D., that is, NOT the E.P.) even though I would not even contemplate it not being in my Beatles collection. The problem that I have is this: there are too many singles on it. The Beatles were always careful to release singles seperately from their albums, thus giving fans "value for money". It smacks of Capitol money-men trying to make a fast buck at The Beatles' expense. The Beatles always hated that they had little control over their overseas output. Having said that, MMT is rather good, and contains one of my all-time top 5 Beatles songs; namely "Baby, You're A Rich Man". This, coupled with the fact that all the songs date from 1967, make it an essential part of the catalogue. A delux "Sgt. Pepper" would not go amiss.

 

Wait, what would go on the Deluxe Sgt Peppers? Isn't everything recorded around that time but not on there, on the MMT LP?

On 9/17/2009 at 0:45 PM, Richard said:

I disagree with my friends suggestion that the "Yellow Submarine" songs should be placed on another L.P. (or C.D.). My question to you is: "where?" Since these songs were written and recorded over a period of at least 15 months, which L.P. (or C.D.) do they go on? Personally I am happy with "Yellow Submarine" as it is, but I feel that EMI should have taken the oppertunity to release the complete George Martin score (not unlike "Live And Let Die").

 

Well, there's only 4 songs. Plenty of room on Past Masters. And the YS LP is stupid. I don't want George Martin score in my Beatles collection. It's not like we got the Help! score in the box anywhere. I think this was a missed opportunity to fix a problem with their CD era canon.

On 9/17/2009 at 0:45 PM, Richard said:

The question of "normal" stereo mixes is a good one. I like the mixes for (for example) "The Beatles", but I would not say that many of the mixes are "normal", especially in the context of what we the listeners take for granted to be normal, these days. The Beatles and George Martin did the best that they could with the technonolgy available, and, most of the time, the results are stunning. I'm sure that every Beatles fan would like to re-mix at least some of their songs, if they had the oppertunity, myself included, and the recent (ish) re-mixes on "Yellow Submarine Songtrack", "1", "Let It Be...Naked", and "Love", are fine examples.

Out of interest, I think that the first L.P. to be given a primarilly stereo mix is "Abbey Road". By that, I mean that multi-track recording had progressed to the point of The Beatles not needing to "bounce" tracks.

Yea that's what I don't understand.... when I read that it took them 4 years to remaster everything, I assume that everything was getting remastered AND remixed. That we would be getting the definite mixes of everything, the correct (longest, whatever) version of every track, properly mixed to "normal" stereo standards... but i guess all they did was take the old masters and improve the sound quality. Another missed opportunity. Or maybe they are just planning on coming out with properly mixed stuff in another 20 years

[Naïve Old Fart 10,238]

O.k., there is a lot of stuff to get through, so here goes...

Firstly, I like MMT a lot, but I do not regard it as canon (the C.D., that is, NOT the E.P.) even though I would not even contemplate it not being in my Beatles collection. The problem that I have is this: there are too many singles on it. The Beatles were always careful to release singles seperately from their albums, thus giving fans "value for money". It smacks of Capitol money-men trying to make a fast buck at The Beatles' expense. The Beatles always hated that they had little control over their overseas output. Having said that, MMT is rather good, and contains one of my all-time top 5 Beatles songs; namely "Baby, You're A Rich Man". This, coupled with the fact that all the songs date from 1967, make it an essential part of the catalogue. A delux "Sgt. Pepper" would not go amiss.

Wait, what would go on the Deluxe Sgt Peppers? Isn't everything recording around that time but not on there, on the MMT LP?

I disagree with my friends suggestion that the "Yellow Submarine" songs should be placed on another L.P. (or C.D.). My question to you is: "where?" Since these songs were written and recorded over a period of at least 15 months, which L.P. (or C.D.) do they go on? Personally I am happy with "Yellow Submarine" as it is, but I feel that EMI should have taken the oppertunity to release the complete George Martin score (not unlike "Live And Let Die").

Well, there's only 4 songs. Plenty of room on Past Masters. And the YS LP is stupid. I don't want George Martin score in my Beatles collection. It's not like we got the Help! score in the box anywhere. I think this was a missed opportunity to fix a problem with their CD era canon.

The question of "normal" stereo mixes is a good one. I like the mixes for (for example) "The Beatles", but I would not say that many of the mixes are "normal", especially in the context of what we the listeners take for granted to be normal, these days. The Beatles and George Martin did the best that they could with the technonolgy available, and, most of the time, the results are stunning. I'm sure that every Beatles fan would like to re-mix at least some of their songs, if they had the oppertunity, myself included, and the recent (ish) re-mixes on "Yellow Submarine Songtrack", "1", "Let It Be...Naked", and "Love", are fine examples.

Out of interest, I think that the first L.P. to be given a primarilly stereo mix is "Abbey Road". By that, I mean that multi-track recording had progressed to the point of The Beatles not needing to "bounce" tracks.

Yea that's what I don't understand.... when I read that it took them 4 years to remaster everything, I assume that everything was getting remastered AND remixed. That we would be getting the definite mixes of everything, the correct (longest, whatever) version of every track, properly mixed to "normal" stereo standards... but i guess all they did was take the old masters and improve the sound quality. Another missed opportunity. Or maybe they are just planning on coming out with properly mixed stuff in another 20 years

It would be a bit difficult to re-mix everything in what we would consider normal stereo by today's standards. There was an awful lot of bouncing, back then, because 16-track plus recording simply did not exist. I'm not sure if it is possible to seperate, say, the vocals form the rythmn guitar, if they are on the same track. If you want to read a rather good article about the remastering process, then please read the latest edition of Record Collector (the one with Jimi Hendrix at Woodstock on the front), as it has an interview with Alan Rouse.

[Diego 21]

Remixing everything would be very hard and expensive, the first two albums were recorded on two-tracks, and while it's possible with today's technology to separate some stuff it's a very hard process and not every song can be remixed. A lot of information on that has come to light with the Beatles Rockband, where a few of the early songs were remixed, so if you missed a note you wouldn't hear the guitar and Gilles Martin (George's Martin son) explained how some songs just couldn't be separated and that the ones he did were very hard to do and took a lot of time.

As for the differences in mixes on the white album, a few of the most noteworthy are:

Back In The USSR has different aircraft noises in the two mixes.

Blackbird has the "chirping" earlier in the mono

Piggies, some of the Pig sounds are missing in the mono

Why Don't We Do It in The Road is missing the handclaps at the beginning in the mono

I Will has the "bass" come later in the mono

Don't Pass Me By is faster in mono and is a semi-tone higher in pitch

Helter Skelter is about a minute shorter.

[Jay 38,847]

The new Alice In Chains and Pearl Jam albums have hit the interwebs! Listening to AIC now...

[Jay 38,847]

Wow! Both albums are really, really good! Alice In Chains' album was just about as good as I expected it to be, but Pearl Jam's new album is surPrising good. Yay!

Listening to the new Black Crowes next, then the new Porcupine Tree...

[Naïve Old Fart 10,238]

Remixing everything would be very hard and expensive, the first two albums were recorded on two-tracks, and while it's possible with today's technology to separate some stuff it's a very hard process and not every song can be remixed. A lot of information on that has come to light with the Beatles Rockband, where a few of the early songs were remixed, so if you missed a note you wouldn't hear the guitar and Gilles Martin (George's Martin son) explained how some songs just couldn't be separated and that the ones he did were very hard to do and took a lot of time.

As for the differences in mixes on the white album, a few of the most noteworthy are:

Back In The USSR has different aircraft noises in the two mixes.

Blackbird has the "chirping" earlier in the mono

Piggies, some of the Pig sounds are missing in the mono

Why Don't We Do It in The Road is missing the handclaps at the beginning in the mono

I Will has the "bass" come later in the mono

Don't Pass Me By is faster in mono and is a semi-tone higher in pitch

Helter Skelter is about a minute shorter.

Thanks for that, Diego, but do you know exactly WHY changes were made? I have never heard "The Beatles" in mono, but I would be sad if Ringo's "I've got blisters on my fingers" is not there.

[Diego 21]

Ringo's "I've got blisters on my fingers" is indeed sadly missing in the mono mix.

As to why the changes were made, there's really not a lot of information. On songs like Back in the USSR, Piggies or Blackbird, the differences come from the sound effects, so it may be that they just decided to use the sound effects differently as the mixes were not done at the same time. According to "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn, Back in the USSR, for example, was mixed for mono on August 23, right after they finished recording it, while the stereo mix was done on October 13.

"Don't Pass Me By" is a very strange one, because the mono sounds like a mistake was made (the song is so fast in mono, Ringo sounds close to a chipmunk), however both mixes were done the same day and even more strange, according to the book I mentioned, Ringo was present during the mixing sessions.

Even the liner notes on the Mono boxset says there's no explanation for these changes and that no one seems to remember why they happened.

[nightscape94 965]

I've had Del Amitri's "Roll with Me" stuck in my head today.

Tim, currently listening to Sigur Ros.