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Why didn't I compose that..?


Snowster
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I'm sure there have been moments in JW:s career, that he has been wondering about this. Maybe it has been Titanic or LOTR, but in retrospect my vote goes to "Back to The future". And yet, I couldn't imagine it without Silvestris brilliant score. But still, it's a lost opportunity. And could someone please spill the beans. which was first Silvestris BTTF or Williams's Amazing stories?? Don't tell me they aren't similar, and check out the year in which both were composed...?

Do I mess the topic completely, if I mention Batman..? The same argument holds true, I love Elfmans Batman, but then again It is all there in the Asteroid Field isn't it..?

And finally, let's not make this a comparison thread, even if I did that already. The most interesting question is, does John Williams regret NOT scoring a film in the past, or which film do You think he should have?

-Snowster

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I have to reply to my own thread. I want to sress and make it very clear, that I do NOT dismiss Silvestris BTTF, by claiming it a lost opportunity by Williams. Yet I do find it interesting, that his amazing stories falls not only in the same ballpark but also the timeframe than BTTF and at the same time is so reminiscent of it.

-Snowster

I'm sure there have been moments in JW:s career, that he has wondering about this. Maybe it has been Titanic, or LOTR, but in retrospect my vote goes to "Back to The future". And yet, I couldn't imagine it without Silvestris brilliant score. But still, it's a lost opportunity. And could someone please spill the beans. which was first Silvestris BTTF or Williams's Amazing stories?? Don't tell me they aren't similar, and check out the year in witch both were composed...?

Do I mess the topic completely, if I mention Batman..? The same arguments hold true, I love Elfmans Batman, but then again It was all there in the Asteroid Field wasn't it..?

And finally, let's not make this a comparison thread, even if I did that already in this post, the topic that is the most interesting one is, does John Williams regret NOT scoring a film in the past OR, what score do You think should have been His...

-Snowster

I thought I understood what you wondering about, but your post befuddled me.

Okay now, my english skills are lacking... How could I clear your 'befuddlement'? I find the topic the most interesting one, and don't wan't the discussion to be limited because of an befuddlement...

-Snowster

After googling the befuddlement, let me repharase and split my original post:

1) Do you think there is a past score, that JW would like to have in his resume?

2) Do you hear any similarities in Silvestris BTTF and JW:s Amazing Stories, and which do You think was first?

3) What about the asteroid field in SW and Elfmans Batman theme??

4) Your own example...

- Snowster

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When I first listened to JW's Amazing Stories theme, Back To The Future immediately went into my mind. There is no doubt they are very similar pieces. Both are from 1985, so it's hard to tell which came first unless someone knows the actual date.

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Seems to me this is one of these threads where the point of the original post doesn't come across, and when it finally does, it turns out it wasn't any good in the first place.

Why would I discuss if or if not The Asteroid Field resembles the tone of Batman ...?

Why would I think Williams looks at a film and regrets not scoring it? The guy has scored the lions share of the most iconic films of the past 30 years, and influenced many others, I would think at this point he could seem a little pleased with himself.

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After googling the befuddlement, let me repharase and split my original post:

1) Do you think there is a past score, that JW would like to have in his resume?

2) Do you hear any similarities in Silvestris BTTF and JW:s Amazing Stories, and which do You think was first?

3) What about the asteroid field in SW and Elfmans Batman theme??

4) Your own example...

- Snowster

1. Probably not

2. no / BTTF was released first.

3. uh, no

4. none

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Seems to me this is one of these threads where the point of the original post doesn't come across, and when it finally does, it turns out it wasn't any good in the first place.

If this is the general opinion, I shall accept it. And even further, I actually think you are right, but I still think the topic is discussable. And to Mark: I think much of the thematic material of Elfmans Batman is lifted from The Asteroid Field (2:18-2:42).

-Snowster

I think much of the thematic material of Elfmans Batman is lifted from The Asteroid Field (2:18-2:42).

-Snowster

But that wasn't my original point. In this context, the original question could have been, does JW regret not scoring Batman if you like.

-Snowster

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I imagine composers like Goldenthal and perhaps Don Davis are the most likely... strong composers with styles/tendencies compatible with Williams' own. Batman and even Back to the Future (excellent though it is) seem a little "obvious", at least for later Williams.

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I think much of the thematic material of Elfmans Batman is lifted from The Asteroid Field (2:18-2:42).

-Snowster

But that wasn't my original point. In this context, the original question could have been, does JW regret not scoring Batman if you like.

-Snowster

Are you arguing with yourself?

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Are you arguing with yourself?

Somewhat.

Propably not actually arguing with myself, but doing some self precising (is that english?) of my original topic...

- Snowster

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I think much of the thematic material of Elfmans Batman is lifted from The Asteroid Field (2:18-2:42).

-Snowster

But that wasn't my original point. In this context, the original question could have been, does JW regret not scoring Batman if you like.

-Snowster

Are you arguing with yourself?

:lol:

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Snowster, I think it's time that you considered checking into Bellevue. On second thought, I think you may make the caretakers a bit looney as well.

Caretaker: What? Did You say something?

Snowster: John Williams...I...think...Back..To...Future...Asteriod Field.....Batman

Caretaker? Batman?

Snowster: No, John Williams you damn fool!

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I think Snowster asks a very valid question, and one that has not really be discussed to death here that I can remember (a rarity, really).

Does John Williams regret not 'going after', if you like, scores that have turned out to be very iconic in our culture. Sure, the guy has done plenty of iconic stuff already, but do you think he wishes, upon seeing how a movie turns out and what musical options there are inherent in it, that he had tried to get the 'gig'?

I could see this certainly being the case with LOTR. It is not everyday that there comes a movie saga with those type of thematic possibilities as those movies turned out to have. It must be enough to make a composer giddy at the thought.

Also, by the way, I knew what he was asking after reading the first post.

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Snowster, I think it's time that you considered checking into Bellevue. On second thought, I think you may make the caretakers a bit looney as well.

Caretaker: What? Did You say something?

Snowster: John Williams...I...think...Back..To...Future...Asteriod Field.....Batman

Caretaker? Batman?

Snowster: No, John Williams you damn fool!

The guy doesn't speak English very well, give him a break. Would you dare say something like this to Andreas?

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Snowster, I think it's time that you considered checking into Bellevue. On second thought, I think you may make the caretakers a bit looney as well.

Caretaker: What? Did You say something?

Snowster: John Williams...I...think...Back..To...Future...Asteriod Field.....Batman

Caretaker? Batman?

Snowster: No, John Williams you damn fool!

The guy doesn't speak English very well, give him a break. Would you dare say something like this to Andreas?

It was a joke. Yeah, he doesn't understand English very well, it's quite apparent. I know you're often pretty slow at grasping ideas, and make looney statements yourself often, so maybe you're the one who should go to Bellevue. Or just leave the message board if you're going to go out of your way to whine about such things. You may be young- but you don't have to make it so painfully obvious in so many of your posts.

I don't personally know Andreas, so I really wouldn't care. If an Admin/Webowner is going to ban you for making fun of a situation like that, than so be it.

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Snowster, I think it's time that you considered checking into Bellevue. On second thought, I think you may make the caretakers a bit looney as well.

Caretaker: What? Did You say something?

Snowster: John Williams...I...think...Back..To...Future...Asteriod Field.....Batman

Caretaker? Batman?

Snowster: No, John Williams you damn fool!

So, do you speak any foreign languages?

At all?

.....

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Snowster, I think it's time that you considered checking into Bellevue. On second thought, I think you may make the caretakers a bit looney as well.

Caretaker: What? Did You say something?

Snowster: John Williams...I...think...Back..To...Future...Asteriod Field.....Batman

Caretaker? Batman?

Snowster: No, John Williams you damn fool!

So, do you speak any foreign languages?

At all?

.....

I was playing upon the point that Mark quoted- It comes off very funny (To one even remotely versed in the language) because it sounds as if Snowster was arguing with himself. You know- the same point everyone else that understands English found humorous :lol:

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You americans are all the same!

There's a problem with that, however- I'm not American :lol:

You, sir, do make me laugh though- But in a good, harmless way.

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You americans are all the same!

There's a problem with that, however- I'm not American :lol:

Well, you sound like one!

Well, allow me to appease your sensitivity with an apology. Sorry If I offended you in any way. You too, Snowster.

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You americans are all the same!

There's a problem with that, however- I'm not American :lol:

Well, you sound like one!

At least he doesn't overdress for the wrong occasions.

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You americans are all the same!

There's a problem with that, however- I'm not American :lol:

Well, you sound like one!

Well, allow me to appease your sensitivity with an apology. Sorry If I offended you in any way. You too, Snowster.

And where's my apology for all those remarks you made about my apparent personality?

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Amazing Stories is a prototypical Williams theme .It cannot sound more "Williams" than that. I never needed to check the end credits to see that he composed it.

BTTF is Silvestri attempting to sound a bit like JW of the time ,but not quite as good . That was my impression back then and still is .Spielberg was producing this,so this was probably what Silvestri was told to do.

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I don't think it's a direct nod to Williams - it's a nod to the action/adventure score genre, which Williams had a major hand in defining.

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After having some sleep, I did some minor corrections to my post, which hopefully makes it a little bit easier to read without removing the original (unintended) comedic aspects from it. It doesn't bother me at all, if someone points out that english isn't my native language, and I actually enjoyed the discussion and joke that were seeded from that fact!

Me arguing with myself was mostly because it was very late and I wasn't able to express myself correctly. I think I was close in post #5, but in a way messed it up again, because the question about similarities between scores was actually not the main issue I tried to raise, even if that too is interesting. I wish I had originally been able to construct my post in the same way that colinthomson was able to interpret it!

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Snowster, I understood what you were talking about in your original post.

A little story I heard about BTTF was that Spielberg wanted James Horner to score the film and Robert Zemeckis fought to keep Alan Silvestri on board as composer.

I don't know when Williams recorded the main theme for Amazing Stories, if anyone has the Intrada Vol I and could check it might say. I would do it but I'm at work. Amazing Stories premiered in September 1985 and BTTF was released in July of 1985 so I would imagine Silvestri scored the film sometime between January and May of 1985.

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Amazing Stories Main Title

Recorded August 22, 1985 during the sessions for The Mission, most commonly used version

Amazing Stories Main Title (alternate #1)

Recorded April 15, 1985 during the sessions for Ghost Train, used only once as the opening of Alamo Jobe

Amazing Stories Main Title (alternate #2)

Recorded April 15, 1985 during the sessions for Ghost Train, never used

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So a coincidence is possible and not copying.

BTW, Williams could have regreted passing on Titanic, but not because he would have wanted to write that music but in the sense that any composer that scored that movie was getting the oscar, and he could have had another one and let it go...

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Thanks Marc.

I'm gonna say that if one was used as a temp track (based on those dates) BTTF was the one used. I would imagine Silvestri had his score completed before Williams penned his.

Of course a legit release of BTTF might answer some of those questions, as to when the score was recorded.

Personally I think it's just a coincidence they sound similar.

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Cameron wanted him originally. But what I don't know is if Cameron formally asked him or just inquired thru Williams' agency about his availability since he was busing working on TLW at the time.

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And where's my apology for all those remarks you made about my apparent personality?

Well, they are quite apparent. I do apologize, however, because they were off topic. Ah well. It happens.

Anyway, I had no idea Spielberg backed JH for the scoring of BTTF. It also makes sense that RZ fought for Silvestri, as they seem to have a very strong Director/Composer partnership.

Horner's take on it would have been interesting to hear, though...

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Thanks Marc.

I'm gonna say that if one was used as a temp track (based on those dates) BTTF was the one used. I would imagine Silvestri had his score completed before Williams penned his.

Of course a legit release of BTTF might answer some of those questions, as to when the score was recorded.

Personally I think it's just a coincidence they sound similar.

If BTTF was released in july the score should have been recorded arround April-May-June

Either way it's at the same time or later than williams recorded Amazing stories main theme.

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Of course a legit release of BTTF might answer some of those questions, as to when the score was recorded.

I still think it's crazy we don't have that. You'd have thought maybe with the countless DVD boxsets of the trilogy they've put out, they might have released it alongside it.

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Well for starters it's Universal we're talking about and from what I understand the original MCA album may still be in print and that has 2 score tracks on it so there's an issue with licensing.

However, and this is my personal guess, since Intrada has made some progress with Amblin and Universal I wouldn't be suprised to see them possibly release it sometime in the next couple of years. But, if I'm not mistaken, there are different groups that fall under Universal's music dept., that's why you're seeing some LP only releases from Intrada. I think the actual complete scores for the films fall under a different arrangement when it comes to licensing the scores.

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I think Williams has had indeed moments he envied other composers, but I think none of living composers but rather 20th century composers like Erich Korngold, William Walton, Leonard Bernstein and Prokofiev and some 19th century composers like Mahler and Tschaikovsky and Elgar of course.

However, I think it has happened more often that Williams thought: "You wrote that? I can do it better!" See his upgraded version of Goldsmith's Capricorn One theme (The Lost World) and the Patton theme (Midway March).

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However, I think it has happened more often that Williams thought: "You wrote that? I can do it better!" See his upgraded version of Goldsmith's Capricorn One theme (The Lost World) and the Patton theme (Midway March).

:)

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However, and this is my personal guess, since Intrada has made some progress with Amblin and Universal

I hope Jurassic Park and The Lost World are in the deal :)

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However, and this is my personal guess, since Intrada has made some progress with Amblin and Universal I wouldn't be suprised to see them possibly release it sometime in the next couple of years. But, if I'm not mistaken, there are different groups that fall under Universal's music dept., that's why you're seeing some LP only releases from Intrada. I think the actual complete scores for the films fall under a different arrangement when it comes to licensing the scores.

In other words it's a tangled mess of burecractic and legal mumbo jumbo.

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I think Williams has had indeed moments he envied other composers, but I think none of living composers but rather 20th century composers like Erich Korngold, William Walton, Leonard Bernstein and Prokofiev and some 19th century composers like Mahler and Tschaikovsky and Elgar of course.

What those composers wrote was exceptional, but were the movies (ballets, etc...)? (I don't know, that's why I'm asking). Do you think Williams saw what they had to write there music to, and wanted that material, or would he have heard their music and wished he wrote it, regardless of what it was written for.

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However, I think it has happened more often that Williams thought: "You wrote that? I can do it better!" See his upgraded version of Goldsmith's Capricorn One theme (The Lost World) and the Patton theme (Midway March).

:lol:

Yes I agree.... ROTFLMAOROTFLMAOROTFLMAOROTFLMAOROTFLMAOROTFLMAO

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I think that if JW wrote the music to LOTR, it would be commonly known and hummable by most people. I am not sure that is the case with the Shore music, but people find it familiar enough. That alone is enough to convince me that the movie is sometimes the vehicle for the music's noteriety. Shore wrote similarly memorable music for Dogma and The Cell, but you'd never catch anybody saying those were memorable scores.

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In LOTRs case, the movie certainly did much for the "memorability" of the scores, both because they're so widely known and because the stories and scenes stick in your head enough to support the music's own memorability. I agree about Dogma, but I wouldn't call The Cell memorable.

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Because it required good music and some half assed crap. Any composer working on those films was going to contribute something worthy or Jackson would probably dump them.

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