Rescoring...

[QMM 4]

It's what JNH said

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

He also said Joker's theme was brilliant.

What he says doesn't matter, it's the music as heard in the film that counts.

[MissPadmé 17]

He also said Joker's theme was brilliant.

What he says doesn't matter, it's the music as heard in the film that counts.

Well I have to admit, that it was very effective though (no sarcasm atall)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I never noticed it

[publicist 4,643]

He also said Joker's theme was brilliant.

What he says doesn't matter, it's the music as heard in the film that counts.

What really bugged me about 'Dark Knight's' music approach was that there was too damn much of it. There were scenes when people would just talk and the music loomed ominously over every word. And Zimmer himself complained about this wallpaper approach more than once. Hypocrite, i say.

[Delorean90 42]

Where do you get the thought from that it represents Gotham City?

It plays over Bale rescuing Neeson in the beginning - how is that related to Gotham?

And I don't recall the theme being used again after that.

It makes up one of the standout moments in the score (for me) when Bruce opens up the wardrobe to reveal the Batsuit.

[MissPadmé 17]

I never noticed it

it played right at the bginning. and when the jokr put the knife in Rachels mouth at the party. It is not a theme as you might think.. it is a glissand from the note D to C (CD Comics ) and it fits the happening on screen pretty well. scratching e-guitars combined with elctric fuzz .

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Actually, I thought that worked brilliantly. Not much from a musical standpoint, but good for the film. Quite scary.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

What really bugged me about 'Dark Knight's' music approach was that there was too damn much of it. There were scenes when people would just talk and the music loomed ominously over every word. And Zimmer himself complained about this wallpaper approach more than once. Hypocrite, i say.

Like the scene when Reese is trying to blackmail Fox; that was a musical faux- pas like you just desribed. Unbelievably bad spotted.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I remember feeling really agitated when The Joker's "theme" played in the "Boat Scene". It was not until after the film that I realized that the "music" was an excuse for a leitmotiv.

[Romão 2,274]

It probably qualifies more as sound design that music per se, but as others have said, the Joker's theme was tremendously effective. I gotta compliment Zimmer on that one.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I prefer actual music.

[Romão 2,274]

I do too, on the cd player. But the Joker's theme greatly enhanced the movie in some scenes, IMHO.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Sometimes I'd have preferred silence.

And sometimes I'd have expected some exciting music, like in the first half of the Batmobile/Police van chase

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I think a more apt name for Batman's vehicle would be the "Bat-Tank".

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Williams Crimson Tide

[Red 75]

It probably qualifies more as sound design that music per se, but as others have said, the Joker's theme was tremendously effective. I gotta compliment Zimmer on that one.

I agree (somewhat begrudgingly).

I think a more apt name for Batman's vehicle would be the "Bat-Tank".

Oh, that's clever.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

It probably qualifies more as sound design that music per se, but as others have said, the Joker's theme was tremendously effective. I gotta compliment Zimmer on that one.

Absolutely.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think a more apt name for Batman's vehicle would be the "Bat-Tank".

Oh, that's clever.

That's what I've always called it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Well... it *is* mobile...

[Sixers 0]

1) Close Encounters of the Third Kind

2) Hans Zimmer

Just for a laugh.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Instead of 5 notes, there will be 5 guitar riffs! YEAH!

[Delorean90 42]

Sometimes I'd have preferred silence.

And sometimes I'd have expected some exciting music, like in the first half of the Batmobile/Police van chase

I don't know. I remember thinking it worked pretty well without music there, but I'll have to see it again for the exact spotting. At the same time, yes, I could definitely see a really good buildup to the blocking the van moment.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The beginning was left scoreless so it could buildup to the Bat Pod. I thought it was quite effective without music in the beginning.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

The beginning was left scoreless so it could buildup to the Bat Pod.

So, you can't skillfully build up to that moment over more than 30 seconds?

Oh wait, it's Hans Zimmer ...

Having music build up until the entrance of the Batmobile, then silence, and then again music for the Batpod would work well, too.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It probably qualifies more as sound design that music per se, but as others have said, the Joker's theme was tremendously effective. I gotta compliment Zimmer on that one.

Merkel, its stolen from the 70's Texas Chainsaw Massacre, hell its just noise, not music, you guys act as if this is brilliant. ITS NOT.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It probably qualifies more as sound design that music per se, but as others have said, the Joker's theme was tremendously effective. I gotta compliment Zimmer on that one.

Merkel, its stolen from the 70's Texas Chainsaw Massacre, hell its just noise, not music, you guys act as if this is brilliant. ITS NOT.

Hans isn't stealing from anyone but himself.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Exactly! Anyone with an instrument (no expertise required) could "compose" it!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Exactly! Anyone with an instrument (no expertise required) could "compose" it!

a ship blowing its foghorn could compose it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Anyone can compose anything.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

no, thats not true,

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Some simply do not have the mental capacity to compose (though, with much practice, they probably would).

[Desplat13 1]

Anyone can compose anything.

Now there is an interesting post.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

True, but I mean, with the proper knowledge, talent, and experience one can easily compose something as good as John Williams. It's his style that we love, not necessarily the literal music, if that makes sense. Look at it this way, take your favorite JNH score and compare it to your favorite JW score (if you are a fan of these composers). Which one is better? They are both high quality, well-written and enjoyable music, but it's the composers style that leans you to either one.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

True, but I mean, with the proper knowledge, talent, and experience one can easily compose something as good as John Williams. It's his style that we love, not necessarily the literal music, if that makes sense. Look at it this way, take your favorite JNH score and compare it to your favorite JW score (if you are a fan of these composers). Which one is better? They are both high quality, well-written and enjoyable music, but it's the composers style that leans you to either one.

hmm, you are on crack

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Do you understand what I'm trying to say though? All composers have the capacity to write great music, multiple composers do, but it's the particular sound that places one over the other. From a technical standpoint, a great JNH score is just as good as a great JW score.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

No, I am afraid that I do not.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

So be it, I tried to explain it as clearly as possible.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I know where you are going but you stupidly said anyone with proper knowledge, talent and experience, could compose as good as John Williams.

there are few with the talent level that John has, you make it sound like he's a dime a dozen.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I suppose I understand the general... (I need to look in my English dictionary)... of what you are trying to say. Forgive me for saying this, but are you using the Ratatouille idea ( I just watched the film)?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

True, but let's say a hypothetical composer starts going into music at a young age. He continuously works, composing music, getting better, learning from experience, learning from an academic standpoint, evolving stylistically... he/she does this for 50 some years. Could that person not compose something as good as John Williams?

My last earlier statement was a little stupid, but perhaps this one explains it better.

[indy4 155]

There are many scores that are better than certain JW scores, nobody's denying that. But no other composer has created as many masterpieces as JW.

I think that given a great amount of work, anybody could become a good composer, at least at a technical level.

But the fact that JW has so frequently churned out work that is so fantastic, on a technical level and as a listening experiance and as a film enhancer puts him above the rest. I know no other composer who has done as much good work as John.

His best scores on ones that:

- make the film emotionally richer

- are a fantastic and enjoyable listening experiance

- have complex orchestrations

No other composer has or has the ability to make as many scores that follow the above guidelines than John Williams.

Even if Zimmer worked on film composing his entire life, I doubt he would be better than Williams.

[Trent B 337]

I think Goldsmith is better than Williams.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

There are many scores that are better than certain JW scores, nobody's denying that. But no other composer has created as many masterpieces as JW.

I think that given a great amount of work, anybody could become a good composer, at least at a technical level.

But the fact that JW has so frequently churned out work that is so fantastic, on a technical level and as a listening experiance and as a film enhancer puts him above the rest. I know no other composer who has done as much good work as John.

His best scores on ones that:

- make the film emotionally richer

- are a fantastic and enjoyable listening experiance

- have complex orchestrations

No other composer has or has the ability to make as many scores that follow the above guidelines than John Williams.

Even if Zimmer worked on film composing his entire life, I doubt he would be better than Williams.

O.K. But does something like Signs not fit that same criteria? Maybe not so much on the complex orchestrations, but there are many scores that enhance their films and are enjoyable to listen to. This proves my point that it's more the composer's style and sound that puts them in higher regard over others. It's all down to the basics of what do you like more.

Something like Paul Haslinger's scores to Shoot 'Em Up or Death Race. It fits the film, enhances them in some ways (this is a rough example). So technically it achieves the same purpose as a JW score. But I guarantee 100% of people here will say JW is better. Why? We all like his sound, his style, his orchestrations. We relate and connect to some films over others, there are many factors that go into composer preference.

[indy4 155]

Signs is easily in the same league as JW's best, and it's better than a majority of JW's scores. But what I'm saying is that no composer has created the same quanitity of sheer quality, if that makes sense. Composers have matched JW's best, but normally with one, two, maybe three scores. JW has continued to write top quality stuff over and over again.

[Jeshopk 8]

Signs is easily in the same league as JW's best, and it's better than a majority of JW's scores. But what I'm saying is that no composer has created the same quanitity of sheer quality, if that makes sense. Composers have matched JW's best, but normally with one, two, maybe three scores. JW has continued to write top quality stuff over and over again.

Aside from the opening credits, the signs music was quite boring and repetetive. Of course I understand how one might enjoy the "Swing Away" bit as well, but you really think Signs and Close Encounters are on par?

[indy4 155]

I'd pick Signs over CE3K anyday, although I've never held CE3K as high as most people here hold it.

[Ollie 1,059]

Signs is one of the most overated scores of all times, especially on this board.

It's good but far from a msterpiece. Some of you need to to go backwards in time and listen to some Mikos Rozsa, Elmer Bernstein and Alfred Newman. They are all more than capapble and have written a large wealth of material that equals what Williams has done.

[Romão 2,274]

Signs is great score, but if some of you hold it in the same degree as Close Encounters, than I'm afraid it really is your loss.

[MSM 126]

If you could re-score a movie....

1) What movie would it be?

2) Who would you hire?

Again this? Anyway:

- Independence Day: John Williams. I love the DA score, but would love to see what JW would have done.

- Order of the Phoenix: John Williams: obvious reasons.

- Goblet of Fire: idem

- Jurassic Park 3: idem

- Count of Monte Cristo: JW.