Interesting article about Zimmer and Howard

[indy4 152]

He [Zimmer] has, he says, no interest in playing the Hollywood "game": winning an Oscar made no difference to his life (and, since he no longer submits his scores to the Academy, he won't be winning any more).

But is he really quitting the business altogether? "At least for a period of time. Maybe it's how I'm dealing with my mid-life crisis. I thought, 'Hang on - I'm 50, I've done a hundred movies; it would be lovely to go out and do some live concerts. I don't want to leave it too late."

Full article here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml...1/bfdark211.xml

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

He's got a hundred people to cover for him.

[fommes 126]

Hans can do live concerts in his sleep!

[ChuckM 1]

Zimmer's role in The Dark Knight is remarkable in that he is sharing it with the equally high-profile James Newton Howard (as they did on 2005's Batman Begins). It's the sort of collaboration that's virtually unheard-of in Hollywood: the last time two A-list composers worked together was more than half a century ago when Bernard Herrmann and Alfred Newman scored The Egyptian.

Who all do they consider "A-List" composers? I prefer both Harry Gregson-Williams and John Powell to Zimmer or Newton-Howard, and HGW with JP have collaborated quite often.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I wouldn't mind if he went on tour for a few years. He's done nothing since Pirates 3 that excited me, and it'd be nice to hear some 100% orchestral recordings of his music (I know there are some, but more...).

JNH just needs to sllooooww down a bit. He's spreading his talent way too thinly at the moment. In fact, my heart really warms when I think about what we could have right now if he'd done Dark Knight solo.

[Desplat13 1]

Zimmer's role in The Dark Knight is remarkable in that he is sharing it with the equally high-profile James Newton Howard (as they did on 2005's Batman Begins). It's the sort of collaboration that's virtually unheard-of in Hollywood: the last time two A-list composers worked together was more than half a century ago when Bernard Herrmann and Alfred Newman scored The Egyptian.

Who all do they consider "A-List" composers? I prefer both Harry Gregson-Williams and John Powell to Zimmer or Newton-Howard, and HGW with JP have collaborated quite often.

What about the VERY recent Kung Fu Panda?

[Ollie 859]

Yeah that article was posted at FSM several days ago and has resulted in "lively" discussions.

Yes please retire, although I don't know what good it would do. The damage has already been done.

And I really wouldn't classify HGW and JP as "A" list composers in the way that Alfred Newman and Bernard Herrmann were.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Hans Zimmer to retire? Wow, I mean no more music by... wait! How many clones does he have now? Ones with genetic defects to boot.

Retire? Codswallop!

[Desplat13 1]

And I really wouldn't classify HGW and JP as "A" list composers in the way that Alfred Newman and Bernard Herrmann were.

In that case, what composer working today ARE a-list composer? What composer get bigger-budget movies than the afore-mentioned?

[Ollie 859]

John Williams

Danny Elfman

James Newton Howard

Howard Shore

Hans Zimmer as much as I hate to admit

James Horner even though he's not doing anything major these days

and possibly Randy Newman

There are several composers who are on the verge of becoming "A" list, Michael Giacchino and John Powell, to name a few.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

John Powell is already A-list. As is Harry G-W.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Is Shore really A-list? It seems like he's only done a handful of scores since LotR, and nothing nearly that big.

I'd probably add Silvestri to the list.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I wouldn't consider Silvestri or Shore.

[Hitch 55]

At least they're a million times better than that MV bunch combined.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Silvestri hasn't done anything great since Cast Away.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

The only true A- lists today are Williams, Elfman and Zimmer - with the downfall in quality from the former to the latter being as steep as the Grand Canyon.

Shore, Newton Howard and Horner are in the general area of the A- list.

And Powell and HGW have done nothing to make a jump into this list anytime soon. Period.

[Wesker 0]

Silvestri hasn't done anything great since Cast Away.

Maybe, but The Polar Express had some great music written for it. Btw, anyone know who wrote Hot Chocolate? It's one of the funniest pieces of music written for film in some time. Though it's Hanks' wailing that made me crack up. The song changes key like three times near the end, but big Tom keeps singing the same thing.

Atleast in the 90's, it seemed like Horner was going to rise as the prominent composer beneath Williams. Now it seems like he isn't even A-List these days. Probably was a mental meltdown of some sort. It's like he hasn't come out of amnesia yet, and has yet to fully realize the extent of his self plagiarisms. Presently, the field is too hard to read. It appears like JNH is certainly A-List, along with Williams and Zimmer. But after that, it becomes confusing. I mean, Thomas Newman is still a force, and one of the most unique voices out there. Alot of the guys that I thought would have risen to the top never really did, and the guys that did (HGW, JP) I never thought would go as far as they did. Well, I'm glad Powell's well on his way up there, but hopefully HGW won't make the leap anytime soon. I just think there's too much talent out there, and we don't deserve this level of mediocrity. I mean, please tell me guys like Jablonsky aren't going to be the main guys scoring blockbusters ten years from now. There's got to be another "sound" out there that will divert Producers from the MV sound. If not, i think the mainstream craft is doomed to a level of mediocrity for many more years.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Being on the A-list doesn't have to do with quality; it's about how much a composer is in demand (see FSM's annual Top 40 rankings).

[Desplat13 1]

This is what I was wondering about. In that case, both HGW and JP are A-list, whether you like it or not.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

What movies have the two done in the past few years that were on the same level of publicity and popularity as the ones Williams and Elfman did?

[Ollie 859]

Is Shore really A-list? It seems like he's only done a handful of scores since LotR, and nothing nearly that big.

I'd probably add Silvestri to the list.

LOTR put Shore on the A-list as far as I'm concerned.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Hell yeah!

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

He probably didn't do much scoring because he was busy with his concerts and The Fly opera.

[publicist 4,484]

LOTR put Shore on the A-list as far as I'm concerned.

That it did.

But i throw a theory in the ring: Composers like Williams (doing almost exclusively Spielberg films) and Horner (almost exclusively small character dramas) are not doing more because the working conditions and the style of movies and music which is required for them are just not their thing anymore.

I hardly think Horner doesn't get enough offers, he just chooses not doing them because he couldn't care less about churning out 90 minutes of music for 'Journey to the Center of Earth' or 'The Mummy III' or whatever. Just like what happened to Barry and Bernstein in the 90s has now reached the 'younger' generation.

The only reason Goldsmith bothered before he passed away was his nature being a workhorse. I don't think he really was keen on some of the stuff he was doing then ('Along came a Spider', anyone?).

[Ollie 859]

That's a valid point.

I think it's obvious Williams is only interested in working for certain people/projects. If he really wanted to continue with Potter he would have and not scored Memoirs, which is a score he was going to do no matter what.

I think Horner started the process after he won his Oscar for Titanic. I also think we're seeing Silvestri do the same thing, plus I believe it's been mentioned in interviews that he is also taken more of an active role in his vineyard, making his own brand of wine. And maybe one could say the same for Elfman.

[Desplat13 1]

This is what I was wondering about. In that case, both HGW and JP are A-list, whether you like it or not.

HGW, the Narnia films.

JP, the Bourne films.

There are others, but those are obviously big budget movies in the past few years.

[Charlie Brigden 5]

This is what I was wondering about. In that case, both HGW and JP are A-list, whether you like it or not.

HGW, the Narnia films.

JP, the Bourne films.

There are others, but those are obviously big budget movies in the past few years.

None of those are really looked upon in the way LOTR are or something like that is. NARNIA is considered LOTR-lite, and hasn't set the world or the box office particularly alight, and the BOURNE flicks are considered very well made action movies. LOTR is a stone-cold phenomenon and the Star Wars of the 00s.

Those aren't choice 'ohmygodi'dkilltoworkonthose' projects. LOTR is. STAR WARS is. BATMAN is. Hell, even STAR TREK is in some ways. Shore and Zimmer, like Williams and Goldsmith (to a degree) before them are now known to housewifes and non-soundtrack nerds across the globe thanks to LOTR and GLADIATOR. That makes them A-list composers. They are the go to guys, whereas Powell and HGW are the guys you go to when Zimmer or Shore or Elfman or Horner or JNH turn you down. Doesn't mean they're bad composers, they're just not on the bigtime for whatever reason.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Hm, I agree with you, but I don't think Shore and Goldsmith are household names.

[Desplat13 1]

And what did Goldsmith work on?

[Henry B 49]

Only about two hundred films?

[Desplat13 1]

I mean big budget A-list worthy films.

[Charlie Brigden 5]

That's why I put to a degree. I think he is probably known a bit, mostly as 'The dude who wrote the OMEN music (which interestingly a lot of people misquote)), maybe as Mr. Star Trek, and possibly gets a bit of recognition (not enough), but Shore I think broke over with LOTR which, like GLADIATOR, I think had a lot of non-soundtrack buyers suddenly purchasing. Maybe even not as the name, but enough people loved and bought those three soundtracks enough to make him hit the big time (and deservedly).

I'm not trying to say Powell and HGW don't deserve a bit more recognition. I'm not saying they do either, but I don't think they're there yet at all.

[Desplat13 1]

This is what I was wondering about. In that case, both HGW and JP are A-list, whether you like it or not.

HGW, the Narnia films.

JP, the Bourne films.

There are others, but those are obviously big budget movies in the past few years.

None of those are really looked upon in the way LOTR are or something like that is. NARNIA is considered LOTR-lite, and hasn't set the world or the box office particularly alight, and the BOURNE flicks are considered very well made action movies. LOTR is a stone-cold phenomenon and the Star Wars of the 00s.

Those aren't choice 'ohmygodi'dkilltoworkonthose' projects. LOTR is. STAR WARS is. BATMAN is. Hell, even STAR TREK is in some ways. Shore and Zimmer, like Williams and Goldsmith (to a degree) before them are now known to housewifes and non-soundtrack nerds across the globe thanks to LOTR and GLADIATOR. That makes them A-list composers. They are the go to guys, whereas Powell and HGW are the guys you go to when Zimmer or Shore or Elfman or Horner or JNH turn you down. Doesn't mean they're bad composers, they're just not on the bigtime for whatever reason.

Nope, sorry. I'm a composer and I would rather work on Narnia than either Batman or Star Trek. Do you have any idea what sort of following those books have?

Anyway, by your definition of 'A-list', people like Jerry Goldsmith and Ennio Morricone are far from A-list, just because they didn't work on culture defining movies. I think there is a little more room than that. Shore had 1 hit, that is it. No one is really going to him now for big films, besides The Hobbit, and that is easily explained. Sure, Gladiator was a big movie, but not on the level of SW or LOTR, so I guess we can throw out Zimmer as well. James Newton Howard, worked on, well Batman, but that is no where near SW or LOTR, and he did little on that anyway. So, let's see. We are left with, um, John Williams, who is in semi-retirment. Kind of a sad A-list.

Now I know I am exagerating, I just want to show you what we can end up with. I consider A-list composers to be composers who are continually sought-after in the film making industry today. Shore isn't. Powell has already made 5 films this year.

Edit: I wrote this before seeing the post above it

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I'm pretty sure he's done half a dozen Star Trek films. Also, Basic Instinct counts. He was A- list, but still, he was and is not a household name.

Who says Shore isn't sought- after? Are you his manager or what?

I understand your point, but Shore is the first choice composer for David Cronenberg, he's working with Martin Scorsese and David Fincher ... because you're scoring five movies a year doesn't mean you're A- list.

[Charlie Brigden 5]

I mean big budget A-list worthy films.

Hmm.

ALIEN

PLANET OF THE APES

THE OMEN

STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE

L.A. CONFIDENTIAL

GREMLINS

TOTAL RECALL

POLTERGEIST

PATTON

[Desplat13 1]

I mean big budget A-list worthy films.

Hmm.

ALIEN

PLANET OF THE APES

THE OMEN

STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE

L.A. CONFIDENTIAL

GREMLINS

TOTAL RECALL

POLTERGEIST

PATTON

Never heard of Gremlins, Total Recall, or Poltergeist. Most of the others I have only heard of in conjunction with Goldsmith's name.

Now, of course, I am of the younger generation. But, according to your definition of A-list, that shouldn't matter.

[Charlie Brigden 5]

Nope, sorry. I'm a composer and I would rather work on Narnia than either Batman or Star Trek. Do you have any idea what sort of following those books have?

I know they're a much-loved series. And I appreciate you'd rather work on them than BATMAN or TREK. I just don't think that would follow through with a lot of composers. TREK, maybe, depends what happens with the reboot. But I don't think they have the attraction.

Anyway, by your definition of 'A-list', people like Jerry Goldsmith and Ennio Morricone are far from A-list, just because they didn't work on culture defining movies.

Please see my previous post, but I didn't include Morricone because we're talking a bit more contemporary, but he is a great A-List of the past.

I think there is a little more room than that. Shore had 1 hit, that is it. No one is really going to him now for big films, besides The Hobbit, and that is easily explained. Maybe he doesn't want to do big films? - Shore is someone who has intense director-composer relationships (PJ, David Fincher, Cronenberg) and he strikes me as the type that got his chance to do his (non-fly) opera and is happy. I realize that sounds like a throw-away answer, but like Mark said, Shore became A-list the moment FOTR hit, and as he's still working, I think that has to qualify him.

Sure, Gladiator was a big movie, but not on the level of SW or LOTR, so I guess we can throw out Zimmer as well. - Yeah, apart from it being a huge box office hit that won BEST PICTURE. Sorry, that was a huge picture.

James Newton Howard, worked on, well Batman, but that is no where near SW or LOTR, and he did little on that anyway. - I didn't mention JNH, I'm not even sure I agree that he's on the list, but he's worked on some big shows, such as KONG, the Shamalyans, I AM LEGEND. But I'm undecided.

Now I know I am exagerating, I just want to show you what we can end up with. I consider A-list composers to be composers who are continually sought-after in the film making industry today. Shore isn't. Powell has already made 5 films this year. - Maybe Shore chooses his scores more carefully than Powell. The mark here isn't quantity, it's quality. Williams, Goldsmith, Morricone, Shore. They've proved that they can provide scores to pretty big/important movies (like THE FLY and THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS and SE7EN) consistently. The only person aside from you I've ever heard going on about how great Powell is is Koray. Again, that's not to say he sucks or anything like that. He's just not in the bigtime. But he could be.

Edit: I wrote this before seeing the post above it

I mean big budget A-list worthy films.

Hmm.

ALIEN

PLANET OF THE APES

THE OMEN

STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE

L.A. CONFIDENTIAL

GREMLINS

TOTAL RECALL

POLTERGEIST

PATTON

Never heard of Gremlins, Total Recall, or Poltergeist. Most of the others I have only heard of in conjunction with Goldsmith's name.

Now, of course, I am of the younger generation. But, according to your definition of A-list, that shouldn't matter.

You've never heard of GREMLINS? Seriously?

[John Crichton 4]

Being an A-list composer has nothing to do with the general public, it's how you're viewed in the industry. And anyone that thinks that Jerry Goldsmith was not on the A-list needs their head examined.

[Desplat13 1]

That post really looks kind of funny..........next to your avatar.

Nope, sorry. I'm a composer and I would rather work on Narnia than either Batman or Star Trek. Do you have any idea what sort of following those books have?

I know they're a much-loved series. And I appreciate you'd rather work on them than BATMAN or TREK. I just don't think that would follow through with a lot of composers. TREK, maybe, depends what happens with the reboot. But I don't think they have the attraction.

Anyway, by your definition of 'A-list', people like Jerry Goldsmith and Ennio Morricone are far from A-list, just because they didn't work on culture defining movies.

Please see my previous post, but I didn't include Morricone because we're talking a bit more contemporary, but he is a great A-List of the past.

I think there is a little more room than that. Shore had 1 hit, that is it. No one is really going to him now for big films, besides The Hobbit, and that is easily explained. Maybe he doesn't want to do big films? - Shore is someone who has intense director-composer relationships (PJ, David Fincher, Cronenberg) and he strikes me as the type that got his chance to do his (non-fly) opera and is happy. I realize that sounds like a throw-away answer, but like Mark said, Shore became A-list the moment FOTR hit, and as he's still working, I think that has to qualify him.

Sure, Gladiator was a big movie, but not on the level of SW or LOTR, so I guess we can throw out Zimmer as well. - Yeah, apart from it being a huge box office hit that won BEST PICTURE. Sorry, that was a huge picture.

James Newton Howard, worked on, well Batman, but that is no where near SW or LOTR, and he did little on that anyway. - I didn't mention JNH, I'm not even sure I agree that he's on the list, but he's worked on some big shows, such as KONG, the Shamalyans, I AM LEGEND. But I'm undecided.

Now I know I am exagerating, I just want to show you what we can end up with. I consider A-list composers to be composers who are continually sought-after in the film making industry today. Shore isn't. Powell has already made 5 films this year. - Maybe Shore chooses his scores more carefully than Powell. The mark here isn't quantity, it's quality. Williams, Goldsmith, Morricone, Shore. They've proved that they can provide scores to pretty big/important movies (like THE FLY and THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS and SE7EN) consistently. The only person aside from you I've ever heard going on about how great Powell is is Koray. Again, that's not to say he sucks or anything like that. He's just not in the bigtime. But he could be.

Edit: I wrote this before seeing the post above it

No, I am not going on about how great Powell is at all. It all depends on your definition of A-list, and you already said you think it is quality. But I was going into this with the thought that it was the sought-after composers. The whole HGW JP thing started with a post earlier saying it was not quality, but sought-after composer for big-budget movies. I think there are many composer better than Powell and HGW who are not on the A-list.

Oh, and by the way, you said something about JP or HGW being the composers of choice when Williams, Horner, Shore, James Newton Howard, etc were busy. That is where I got the JNH thing from

[Ollie 859]

I mean big budget A-list worthy films.

Hmm.

ALIEN

PLANET OF THE APES

THE OMEN

STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE

L.A. CONFIDENTIAL

GREMLINS

TOTAL RECALL

POLTERGEIST

PATTON

Never heard of Gremlins, Total Recall, or Poltergeist. Most of the others I have only heard of in conjunction with Goldsmith's name.

Now, of course, I am of the younger generation. But, according to your definition of A-list, that shouldn't matter.

Wow I can't believe what I'm reading.....

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I really hope Collin is trying to say he hasn't heard the scores for Gremlins, Total Recall, and Poltergeist; and not never hearing of them. Either way, it's pretty insane to not know the Gremlin Rag.

[Desplat13 1]

I really don't watch a lot of movies. I love art, but it has its place. I am somewhat of an artist, and if I spend too much time appreciating other people's art, I do not have enough time to improve my own. Thus, I watch some movies, I listen to a lot of music (since that is my art-form), but I am not a 'watch every movie out there' sort of guy.

[Henry B 49]

You know Goldsmith died four years ago, right? The distinction here is that Goldsmith was an A-lister. He was in his prime before you were born. If you had grown up in the eighties you would be very familiar with all the titles listed.

[Red 73]

I really don't watch a lot of movies. I love art, but it has its place. I am somewhat of an artist, and if I spend too much time appreciating other people's art, I do not have enough time to improve my own. Thus, I watch some movies, I listen to a lot of music (since that is my art-form), but I am not a 'watch every movie out there' sort of guy.

So that would be a "haven't even heard of the movie", then?

[JoeinAR 1,759]

lots of people call themselves artists, doesn't make it so.

colin listen to the Gremlin's rag

there is no video with this one, its just the music. this is brilliant and bizarre stuff. Jerry Goldsmith is a fraking Genius. When on the top of his game knew how to score a film better than anyone alive or dead except John Williams, including the greats of the golden age.

[Desplat13 1]

I didn't say good artist. I try to write music, which is art, which makes me an artist. Does not mean my art is worth anything, or that I am a good artist.

Anways...

Charlie Brigden was saying that the only composers who get the A-list distinction are those who have written scores for movies such as SW or LOTR or Gladiator. I was saying that (I didn't think) Goldsmith had done any movies of that type of cultural impact. I was calling into question Charlie's way of defining A-list'ers, not calling into question Goldsmith's talent. In fact, I was using Goldsmith's OBVIOUS talent to discredit that A-list definition. That is ALL I was saying. I am as interested in becoming familiar with Goldsmith's music as the next person, and I love what I have heard. I mean it. I LOVE it. It is awesome. Why do you people all assume I think he wasn't a good composer? I can't figure out where I led you into thinking that.

Goldsmith was INCREDIBLE, and I know it. I want to own every score he ever wrote. Unfortunately, funds do not allow for that at the moment.

And no, I don't think I had heard of the three movies listed. Of course, it seems like somewhere I must have heard of them, but I don't recall it.

That Gremlin Rag is certainly a fun piece. Is that at all the style of the score?

[Hlao-roo 388]

I mean big budget A-list worthy films.

Hmm.

ALIEN

PLANET OF THE APES

THE OMEN

STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE

L.A. CONFIDENTIAL

GREMLINS

TOTAL RECALL

POLTERGEIST

PATTON

Never heard of Gremlins, Total Recall, or Poltergeist. Most of the others I have only heard of in conjunction with Goldsmith's name.

Now, of course, I am of the younger generation. But, according to your definition of A-list, that shouldn't matter.

Wow I can't believe what I'm reading.....

I'll be honest: the only reason I've heard of those films (with the possible exception of Patton, which I watched in a history class) myself is because I follow film music. Before I began collecting soundtracks in 1997, I was about as casual (ignorant?) a moviegoer as it gets, and even now my cinematic diet is considerably sparser than that of most here. I am pleased to say that my love for film scores has heightened my appreciation for film itself considerably.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I was into film before scores, so it's really fun to come across old crappy scores to "classic" films from my childhood. Take Tremors, for example.

[indy4 152]

Before I began collecting soundtracks in 1997, I was about as casual (ignorant?) a moviegoer as it gets

Same here. I remember remembering that Spielberg made some movie called 19-something (1941), and I wondered if it was a film version of the book 1984.

[Desplat13 1]

I'm in that same boat. Except with me, I didn't start getting into film scores until probably '04 or '05, so I have had a lot of listening to do to catch up on everything.