Is the City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra really that bad?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Now, I haven't actually heard the majority of their recordings, but from the few that I do know, I don't think they deserve the rather bad rep they get around here. Their Godfather Trilogy recordings were well done, as were the recordings in Cinema Choral Classics II. Their Indy compilation was hit and miss, but the misses were more mediocre than truly awful imo. Yes, I have heard samples of some downright terrible ones such as Viktor's theme and Battle of the Heroes....but are they really as bad as some on this board seems to say they are?

[Romão 2,274]

No, they are not, and they have recorded some compilations that are are wonderful introductions to many great movie composers.

[publicist 4,643]

Now, I haven't actually heard the majority of their recordings, but from the few that I do know, I don't think they deserve the rather bad rep they get around here. Their Godfather Trilogy recordings were well done, as were the recordings in Cinema Choral Classics II. Their Indy compilation was hit and miss, but the misses were more mediocre than truly awful imo. Yes, I have heard samples of some downright terrible ones such as Viktor's theme and Battle of the Heroes....but are they really as bad as some on this board seems to say they are?

No, if they have sufficient rehearsal time they can be splendid....just listen to Rozsa's 'Private Life of Sherlock Holmes' or the upcoming 'El Cid'. Silva's 'budget' recordings done on a shoestring are another matter, although it doesn't seem to matter with more regular buyers.

[Erik Woods 555]

No, if they have sufficient rehearsal time they can be splendid....just listen to Rozsa's 'Private Life of Sherlock Holmes' or the upcoming 'El Cid'. Silva's 'budget' recordings done on a shoestring are another matter, although it doesn't seem to matter with more regular buyers.

Exactly. They still aren't the cream of the crop but if you listen to something like The Iron Giant you wouldn't believe it was performed by the same orchestra that butchers John Williams' material on a constant basis. Also, their John Barry recordings are splendid. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Nic Raine is a big lover of Barry's material... I mean, the man orchestrated for Barry so I think there is some extra time, love and care spent with the Barry's material.

One other thing that bothers me about the Prague recordings is the "sound." Not sure who the engineer is but the orchestra sounds constipated with way too much reverb.

-Erik-

[Ollie 1,059]

I agree, when doing complete score re-recordings they can be very good.

Of course they may have more rehearsal time when it comes to the score recordings compared to compilations.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

They also tend to do better on slower Barry-esque pieces, rather than highly technical action cues.

[MSM 126]

Funy I just wanted to strat this thread. I have started to love, no even admire their recordings. They are as crisp as one would wish a Williams OST to be. I have the majority of the Williams stuff recorded by the Prague Philhamonic, and really their sound is fantastic and, as I have said before, add a new dimension to Williams' compostions. Counterpoints, and little detaild do shine with the PPO yet are being totally mixed down in the OSTs.

I used to critisize them for their perfomance faults but nowadays they arén't alomst there. From the HP collection the rerecording of Double Trouble is worth the price of the album on its own, same story for Mine Car Chase in the Indy re-recodings. They are astonishingly fresh, reverberant and energetic. I also disagree with Ray that they are worse at action pieces. The Mine Car Chase is a good example of how good they actually are, also on action pieces. Only unforgivable thing about the PPo recordings are the slight arrangements made to some of the tracks.

Overall, I'd recommend the PPO to every JW fan. They are really an addition to one's collection, even if one already has all the separate albums (like I do).

[Red 75]

I haven't been too impressed by them. Of course that doesn't mean they can't deliver a good performance, but in my limited experience I haven't heard one.

[Neimoidian 14]

(...)Also, their John Barry recordings are splendid. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Nic Raine is a big lover of Barry's material... I mean, the man orchestrated for Barry so I think there is some extra time, love and care spent with the Barry's material.

(...)

Exactly. I love their re-recordings of Bond music.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I agree, when doing complete score re-recordings they can be very good.

They're fine on Kilar's Ninth Gate, too.

[Mattris 416]

I've heard plenty of the City of Prague Philharmonic on CD, and IMO they have fewer "hits" than "misses". The Bond and Barry recordings are fine. Their Map Room climax is awesome; Towering Inferno and Yoda's Theme are worthy efforts. If I recall correctly, the Prague choir is separately-recorded and sounds better than the orchestra itself - Independence Day End Credits and Duel of the Fates come to mind. I think the orchestra sounds tense performing the Mine Car Chase, with bad intonation in the brass. Their worst recording has got to be The Forest Battle - lacking a bass drum, snare drum, and bells. Did those players not make it back from lunch in time? Unbelievable.

One other thing that bothers me about the Prague recordings is the "sound." Not sure who the engineer is but the orchestra sounds constipated with way too much reverb.

Yeah, I have no idea why the recording engineer hard-limits the orchestra's dynamics, as it makes for a very unnatural sound - especially in the brass and percussion. Their Asteroid Field is ruined because of this limiting.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I can't say I've heard a lot of theirs, but I liked the AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON track they did.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

The City of Prague have been responsible for many terrible renditions, but they have also performed many faithful arrangements of a vast range of music.

You cannot beat Kunzel's Cincinnati Pops however. I've heard a massive amount of their recordings on the numerous compilations released in years gone by and I've yet to hear a bad performance by them.

Kunzel has blown away a handful of LSO re-recordings of film music over the years, a definite achievement, considering the LSO are universally known for their high quality output.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Don't forget Gerhardt...

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Ah, yes!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

A friend of mine conducted a CD of music from the Carry On films with them about 10 years ago. He said they were an amazing orchestra to work with. They were incredibly cheap to hire, learnt the music in a day and then recorded it in just two takes. The fact is they are one of the most prolific recording orchestras in the world, and they work wonders given the miniscule amount of time allocated to each recording.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Aren't they doing alot of video game score recordings now? I think Joel Goldsmith has some pictures on his site of Nicholas Dodd conducting PPO in one of his video game scores in a recording session.

[tjguitar 0]

Aren't they doing alot of video game score recordings now? I think Joel Goldsmith has some pictures on his site of Nicholas Dodd conducting PPO in one of his video game scores in a recording session.

Pretty sure that was Slovak?

Indeed it was:

http://www.freeclyde.com/projects/cod3sess...D3Sessions.html

[Williamsfan301 11]

Aren't they doing alot of video game score recordings now? I think Joel Goldsmith has some pictures on his site of Nicholas Dodd conducting PPO in one of his video game scores in a recording session.

Pretty sure that was Slovak?

Indeed it was:

http://www.freeclyde.com/projects/cod3sess...D3Sessions.html

Ah. I stand corrected then.

[Quintus 5,399]

They started out absolutely woeful, but they have improved somewhat. I still wouldn't rate them though. I always feel sorry for the wonderful strings players, because the rest of the orchestra nearly always lets their fine playing down, the terrible brass in particular.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Exactly. They still aren't the cream of the crop but if you listen to something like The Iron Giant you wouldn't believe it was performed by the same orchestra that butchers John Williams' material on a constant basis.

If I'm correct, The Iron Giant was performed by the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra and not the City of Prague.

However, it seems lately the City of Prague has really improved. It probably depends also on the conductor and the rehearsal time, but their latest re-recording such as The Private Lives of Sherlock Holmes and The Guns of Navarone are superb. And I can't wait to hear the new El Cid re-recording, the preview clips sound amazing.

[MSM 126]

They started out absolutely woeful, but they have improved somewhat. I still wouldn't rate them though. I always feel sorry for the wonderful strings players, because the rest of the orchestra nearly always lets their fine playing down; the terrible brass in particular.

Really? I think the brass is great, it has this really brassy sound which make it shine IMO. A bit edgy in places though (esp trumpets), if that's what you mean. But I disagree with a former poster that they are out of tune.

Aren't they doing alot of video game score recordings now? I think Joel Goldsmith has some pictures on his site of Nicholas Dodd conducting PPO in one of his video game scores in a recording session.

Pretty sure that was Slovak?

Indeed it was:

http://www.freeclyde.com/projects/cod3sess...D3Sessions.html

Cool. Didn't know Dodd worked for Joel Goldsmith.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Pan's Labyrynth and Some of Roque baños scores have used this orchestra and it sounds good.

[Henry B 50]

They started out absolutely woeful, but they have improved somewhat. I still wouldn't rate them though. I always feel sorry for the wonderful strings players, because the rest of the orchestra nearly always lets their fine playing down; the terrible brass in particular.

Really? I think the brass is great, it has this really brassy sound which make it shine IMO. A bit edgy in places though (esp trumpets), if that's what you mean. But I disagree with a former poster that they are out of tune.

[MSM 126]

They started out absolutely woeful, but they have improved somewhat. I still wouldn't rate them though. I always feel sorry for the wonderful strings players, because the rest of the orchestra nearly always lets their fine playing down; the terrible brass in particular.

Really? I think the brass is great, it has this really brassy sound which make it shine IMO. A bit edgy in places though (esp trumpets), if that's what you mean. But I disagree with a former poster that they are out of tune.

We're talking about the Mine Car Chase. have you even read through this thread?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Gedraag je een beetje, ok.

[MSM 126]

Gedraag je een beetje, ok.

Mind to repeat that in English?

[skyy38 21]

I was going to start a new thread about a recent discovery that I had made, but I think my story is suitable for this location.

Once upon a time while going TOWERING INFERNO Main Theme crazy , I came across this:

At first, I thought that it was just another video of TTI Main Theme (by Williams) but then, something unfamiliar crossed my ears @ 0:43 in the form of a timpani figure that I had never heard before, but I thought was a cool idea anyway.

The whole affair seemed to possess an UN-70's sound, but that didn't bug me either because it didn't detract from the MT in the least.

At first I thought this track might be a re-mix, courtesy of a wonderfully demented fan-boy who thought that TTI Main Theme could use some "sprucing up". You know how re-mixes go, or sometimes they should be called "re-do's" because the original tracks get scrapped entirely in favor of a "larger" sound.

But as I listened to it over and over, it seemed that this was just more than a simple case of targeted overdubs in strategic places.
It was like I stepped into an alternate universe-one much like ours except with differences ranging from subtle to downright outrageous.

(For instance in the AU, it was President John Wilkes Boothe who was shot by Assassin Abraham Lincoln.)

Keep reading....

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

They've definitely improved. Used to be awful when it came Barry/Bond music, though.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The dreaded Nic Raine?

[skyy38 21]

Today, I reviewed the video, and noticed something in the "description" field, I had somehow missed before.

"Main Theme From The Towering Inferno by The City Of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra."

I thought to myself, "oh really ?" but then I entered a search on YT using the above keywords and got this as vindication:

I am in complete admiration of Conductor of Nic Raine for TWO very important reasons.

One: First and foremost, he remains true to JW's original version without sounding like a mere "copycat". COPO breathes new life into the MT without blowing it to smithereens, as so many other orchestras often do, in their haste to sound "just as good". Sometimes the others can sound much worse, like this:

( I just want to SHOOT the bass drum player!)

Two: The aforementioned Timpani figure at the beginning. Whilst remaining true to the original scope, Mr. Raine has added new elements that don't sound like they have been "shoe-horned" into the context at large.

Keep reading....

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

I mean, they're not awful, but they're hardly a great orchestra. Some of their recordings sound pretty good (personally, I usually prefer their recordings to Zimmer's originals, especially for the Batman scores) and their recording of "Hope and Memory" from Return of the King is excellent. On the other hand, some of their (mainly older) versions of John Williams cues are horrendous.

[skyy38 21]

And by "Shoe-horned" I refer to this:

( @ 2:56 )

More than a few of you on these boards have always clamored for the IMPERIAL MARCH to be inserted in SWE4, in the places desired.

It wouldn't work for two reasons:

One: The timing would be off, against the original cues, and it wouldn't be a good fit. Imagine the "Battle Of Yavin" with a double -time version of THE IMPERIAL MARCH when the DEATH STAR shows up-it would be hasty and rushed.

Two: HISTORY! THE IMPERIAL MARCH was borne of the IMPERIAL MOTIF from SWE4. It is a natural progression, like Vader telling Luke that he IS his father.

Another note. The IMPERIAL MARCH doesn't owe ANYTHING to MARS THE BRINGER OF WAR.

Maybe you should listen to the overture from SWAN LAKE......*again*.....

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Adywans's 'Star Wars: Revisited' is an utter abortion, in all areas - CGI rendering, taste, judgement, needle dropping...

[skyy38 21]

For those of you that knew this already, it is "old business"

For me, however, it was a breath of fresh air!

I thank you for your indulgence....

Adywans's 'Star Wars: Revisited' is an utter abortion, in all areas - CGI rendering, taste, judgement, needle dropping...

No, not in ALL areas- just *some*.....

Now WHY would the Falcon "stand still" while it was being attacked?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Good God...

[Faleel 5,348]

Also blame the committee suggesting these changes.

[Damien F 1,742]

City of Prague Philharmonic has its good and bad moments, and its quality varies widely. They can perform brilliantly but when it goes wrong for them, they can entirely ruin a piece of music.

Compare 0:38 - 1:39 of their recording...

And 0:38 - 1:36 in the original Goldsmith conducted cue... especially the brass around the 1:20 mark

Also, anvil/triangle strikes at about 1:40 in the recording completely loose the rhythm of Goldsmith's original.

[crocodile 8,012]

True. On the other side of the pond, however:

Karol

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

True. On the other side of the pond, however:

 

 

That's competent, but too slow and very lacking in punch. Just compare with the soundtrack album version.

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

but when it goes wrong for them, they can entirely ruin a piece of music.

Yeah, like Hook.

[KK 3,307]

Compare 0:38 - 1:39 of their recording...

Damn, they really butchered it with this one...