Composer Threads John Powell kicks ass

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Considering HGW's score to Sinbad is more exciting and fun than JP's HTTYD scores, I think the assignment landed in the right hands.

[Luka 242]

7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

HGW's score to Sinbad is more exciting and fun than JP's HTTYD scores

 

 

[JTN 2,003]

28 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Considering HGW's score to Sinbad is more exciting and fun than JP's HTTYD scores

I Adore HGW’s score to SINBAD. 

[Brónach 1,302]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

I Adore HGW’s score to SINBAD. 

 

it's great

[Edmilson 7,431]

34 minutes ago, A Farewell to Kings said:

Which is funny, because apparently HGW was the one who contributed the most to that CR.

Do you have a source for that? Not trying to troll, I'm genuinely curious! Always wondered who did what in the JP/HGW collaborations.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

JP put on the coffee.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

1 hour ago, A Farewell to Kings said:

Which is funny, because apparently HGW was the one who contributed the most to that CR.

I have no evidence either way, but it was definitely a very effective collaboration. I think it's the strong thematic material that works which is where it sounds more like JP than HGW (I can' think of a single score of his with especially strong main themes, good though his stuff is otherwise).

 

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Considering HGW's score to Sinbad is more exciting and fun than JP's HTTYD scores, I think the assignment landed in the right hands.

I mean, I like Sinbad, one of my favourite HGW, but I think you might be in a minority of one finding it better than the HTTYD scores ;-)

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Just now, Tom Guernsey said:

I mean, I like Sinbad, one of my favourite HGW, but I think you might be in a minority of one finding it better than the HTTYD scores ;-)

 

It's not the first time good taste is in a minority.  

[Faleel 5,345]

1 minute ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I have no evidence either way, but it was definitely a very effective collaboration. I think it's the strong thematic material that works which is where it sounds more like JP than HGW (I can' think of a single score of his with especially strong main themes, good though his stuff is otherwise).

 

I mean, I like Sinbad, one of my favourite HGW, but I think you might be in a minority of one finding it better than the HTTYD scores ;-)

Rocky's theme is definitely HGW.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

2 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I can' think of a single score of his with especially strong main themes

 

Hellooo, Sinbad called. 

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It's not the first time good taste is in a minority.  

I'm happy with my choice...

 

6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Hellooo, Sinbad called. 

Yeah, it's pretty good (not that I can remember it lol).

[Faleel 5,345]

8 minutes ago, A Farewell to Kings said:

Rocky's theme is definitely HGW.

 

[crocodile 8,000]

1 hour ago, A Farewell to Kings said:

Rocky's theme is definitely HGW.

 

I always assumed it was Bill Conti...

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Considering HGW's score to Sinbad is more exciting and fun than JP's HTTYD scores, I think the assignment landed in the right hands.

 

That's quite a claim! While Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas is probably my favorite HGW score, unlike the How to Train Your Dragon scores it unfortunately feels much more temp-tracked at times (with JNH's The Postman in particular), so to me is a bit compromised. I *adore* the main theme (especially in the back to back cues "Heroics" and "Rescue!"), I think the villain theme is a lot of fun, and the vocal-led cue "Sirens" is quite creative, original, and memorable! But it's nothing on the level of what Powell achieved with HTTYD. Maybe the Narnia series could have been that for HGW if the franchise hadn't sadly fallen apart (I love his Prince Caspian score and think it overall showed a lot of development compared with say the more typical Media Ventures action music in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.)

 

Anyhow, if Powell couldn't be involved in this sequel score I'm at least glad they're retaining HGW. (I'm more upset about them failing to bring back a lot of the original cast!) He still did a fine job on the Shrek sequel scores without Powell. I'll be surprised if we have anything as brilliant as "Building the Crate" in this new score though.

 

Yavar

[Faleel 5,345]

1 minute ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 (I love his Prince Caspian score and think it overall showed a lot of development compared with say the more typical Media Ventures action music in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.)

 

Yavar

To the even more aggressive thumping RC style action of PC?

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

Just now, A Farewell to Kings said:

To the even more aggressive thumping RC style action of PC?

 

To me PC is much more sophisticated, and LWW's action music sounds a lot more Media Ventures "cheap". He did establish some lovely themes for Narnia in that original score though!

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

5 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

it's nothing on the level of what Powell achieved with HTTYD.

 

5 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

That's quite a claim!

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

Powell was given far more creative control over HTTYD, and he had three substantial films to develop his thematic material throughout. HGW had one (mediocre) film -- apparently heavily temp-tracked -- to work with and he did a GREAT job given the circumstances, but his score just doesn't have the depth and complexity of the HTTYD trilogy. I would think that's self-evident.

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

30 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

unlike the How to Train Your Dragon scores it unfortunately feels much more temp-tracked at times

 

Unlike the obvious LotR temp tracking of Dragon Battle?

 

17 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

HGW had one (mediocre) film

 

Interesting that you, of all people, should imply that a mediocre film would reflect on the quality of the score.

 

17 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

apparently heavily temp-tracked

 

You don't think HTTYD was heavily temp tracked?

 

17 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

depth and complexity

 

Frentic notes doesn't mean depth and complexity.

[Edmilson 7,431]

The first Narnia score is okay, but it only gets really good once the heroic theme is introduced when the kids get to the Aslan camp. Before that it was very uneven.

 

Prince Caspian is much more mature and has a nice development of themes.

 

I wish HGW was able to complete his trilogy. Never cared for Arnold's Dawn Treader score, especially when we consider it was his last work for a major Hollywood blockbuster.

[PrayodiBA 517]

6 hours ago, A Farewell to Kings said:

Which is funny, because apparently HGW was the one who contributed the most to that CR.

 

5 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Do you have a source for that? Not trying to troll, I'm genuinely curious! Always wondered who did what in the JP/HGW collaborations.

Chicken Run is mostly Powell’s 

(as a Powell fan, I got to clarify this 😄)

According to the official the track list from:

https://hans-zimmer.com/discography/46/project/348

01 - Opening Escape (3:39) 
John Powell 
02 - Main Titles (3:24) 
John Powell 
03 - The Evil Mrs. Tweedy (4:22) 
John Powell 
04 - Rats! (1:09) 
Harry Gregson-Williams 
05 - Chickens Are Not Organized (1:01) 
John Powell 
06 - We Need A Miracle (2:03) 
John Powell 
07 - Rocky And The Circus (3:51) 
John Powell 
08 - Flight Training (3:39) 
John Powell 
09 - A Really Big Truck Arrives (5:56) 
Harry Gregson-Williams 
10 - Cocktails And Flighty Thoughts (1:58) 
Harry Gregson-Williams 
11 - Babs' Big Break (1:40) 
John Powell 
12 - Flip Flop And Fly - Ellis Hall (2:09)
John Powell
13 - Up On The Roof (3:08) 
Harry Gregson-Williams 
14 - Into The Pie Machine (3:10) 
John Powell 
15 - Rocky‚ A Fake All Along (3:28) 
Harry Gregson-Williams 
16 - Building The Crate (3:32) 
John Powell, James McKee Smith
17 - The Wanderer - Dion (2:47)
18 - The Chickens Are Revolting (2:45) 
John Powell, Gavin Greenaway 
19 - Lift Off (3:41) 
Harry Gregson-Williams 
20 - Escape To Paradise (4:59) 
John Powell, Gavin Greenaway, James McKee Smith
 

^^
As seen in the track list,Powell contributed to most of the themes including the main theme and of course, the building the create theme.

 

In fact, track no. 9 by HGW was “rejected” in the film, in favor of Powell’s track no. 14.

More over, according to interview with Powell, the nature of their collaboration is more like “a competition”; One story Powell mentioned is when they wrote the score for CR, each worked on their own separate task and often Hans Zimmer wanted to “duel” both of them, by telling Powell to come to HGW’s crib to show how good HGW music is. That made Powell felt “challenged” to do better. And vice versa.

 

 

 

 

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

19 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Unlike the obvious LotR temp tracking of Dragon Battle?

 

Yeah, I think the temp tracking in Sinbad is more blatant and distracting.

 

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Interesting that you, of all people, should imply that a mediocre film would reflect on the quality of the score.

 

That's not what I was doing. I think HGW gave the film a much, MUCH better score than it deserved and I think great scores can be written for mediocre movies. But what I'm saying is that Powell had the advantage of far superior films which he must have found inspiring.

 

21 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You don't think HTTYD was heavily temp tracked?

 

The temp track bleeds through much less heavily than in Sinbad, to my ears.

 

21 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Frentic notes doesn't mean depth and complexity.

 

I didn't say they did. For me, the HTTYD scores (even if we stop at the first one, though I think the second is my favorite) have more emotional depth whereas Sinbad is more of a very fun surface-level "popcorn movie" score. This is where the quality of the films helps.

 

As for complexity, yes I think the HTTYD scores have more themes and more complex and interesting development of them, overall. And having three films to deepen that development certainly was an advantage to Powell. Narnia's the closest opportunity HWG had to match that I think.

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

1 minute ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Yeah, I think the temp tracking in Sinbad is more blatant and distracting.

 

Examples, please.

 

2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

But what I'm saying is that Powell had the advantage of far superior films which he must have found inspiring.

 

Many soundtrack fans find the HTTYD films mediocre.

 

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

JP put on the coffee.

 

How dare you!

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

2 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

How dare you!

 

I didn't say he didn't multitask! Great cue.

 

He put on coffee and told James McKee Smith to write the cue.

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

What on earth is your weird beef with John Powell? I see Smith co-credited on the Zimmer site linked above, but did he also ghostwrite a bunch of later Powell scores which sound very, very similar to Building the Crate?

 

11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Many soundtrack fans find the HTTYD films mediocre.

 

Since when? I haven't seen or heard anyone say anything along those lines. I know not everyone loved the final film as much as the first two, but by and large they seem pretty beloved, soundtrack fans or no.

 

12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Examples, please.

 

I don't have the time right now to listen through both scores and give you exact timestamps. But go listen to JNH's The Postman and tell me you don't hear some *extremely* familiar passages from Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas.

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

What on earth is your weird beef with John Powell? I see Smith co-credited on the Zimmer site linked above, but did he also ghostwrite a bunch of later Powell scores which sound very, very similar to Building the Crate?

 

Oh, that was just a joke.

 

2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I don't have the time right now to listen through both scores and give you exact timestamps. But go listen to JNH's The Postman and tell me you don't hear some *extremely* familiar passages from Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas.

 

The similarity has never struck me, at least not as blatantly as LotR / Dragon Battle.

[Tallguy 3,383]

I'm not nearly as familiar with LotR, so what part is Dragon Battle temped from?

 

Now I'm listening to Building the Crate. SWOON!

[Faleel 5,345]

Yeah, I don't really hear any obvious comparisons to any LOTR cues. (Not that I wouldn't be able to one they were pointed out.)

[Edmilson 7,431]

2 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

13 - Up On The Roof (3:08) 
Harry Gregson-Williams 

This has always been my favorite track in the OST. Just gorgeous. It's cool to know that HGW was the responsible for it.

 

2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

To me PC is much more sophisticated, and LWW's action music sounds a lot more Media Ventures "cheap". He did establish some lovely themes for Narnia in that original score though!

 

I dunno, I feel like overall the action music in both of his Narnia scores are much less exhuberant, more RCP-like and ostinati-driven and therefore less fun than Sinbad (which is surely one of his very best scores). Not that it is bad though, but surely less enjoyable and crowpleasing.

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

Again, Sinbad is my favorite HGW solo score. I like the action music in it better than either Narnia score of his. But I do consider Prince Caspian a step forward from LWW.

 

Yavar

[Faleel 5,345]

Only a step forward in giving you a headache with its incessant percussion, gritty synth, and snap pizzicato.

 

Only good action stuff is anytime PC's theme plays, the early version of Rescuing Trumpkin, Sorcery and Sudden Vengeance, and the Tree/River God finale.

 

And the stuff lifted from the first score, but that doesn't count.

[JTN 2,003]

I love both HTTYD and SINBAD. I listen to the latter more  simply because it’s a “more accessible” score I guess? I dare say it’s more fun to me.

HTTYD can be a little “too much” at times, like most JP scores, again, to me. Whereas HGW’s score to SINBAD is a more straightforward action adventure fantasy score that can be enjoyed more

easily and has a bigger relisten-value for me. 
I do love HTTYD too, the first film will always be my favorite, imho it was catching lightning in a bottle, and Powell should have won the Oscar for it. 

But imho SINBAD, both score and film are way underrated. The film is one of my guilty pleasures that I keep rewatching and keep hoping for an expanded CD release of the score.

[Brónach 1,302]

oh so JP and other person wrote The Chickens Are Revolting

[Faleel 5,345]

7 hours ago, Brónach said:

oh so JP and other person wrote The Chickens Are Revolting

Gavin Greenway, conductor.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

HGW never did a score half as good as Ferdinand.

[Brónach 1,302]

There's something about John's melodies.

[crocodile 8,000]

11 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

HGW never did a score half as good as Ferdinand.

I don't know. What about Sinbad or Kingdom of Heaven? If nothing else, he will be liked for those two. And I actually very much enjoy the theme he contributed to Prometheus.

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

11 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

HGW never did a score half as good as Ferdinand.

 

Indeed. He wrote a score twice as good.

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

I like quite a few of Gregson-Williams' scores.

 

I grew up with Narnia, so I have a soft spot for those. Prince Of Persia has some great moments.

The Shrek series.

Sinbad, Kingdom Of Heaven, The Martian & The Last Duel are all great

[Edmilson 7,431]

40 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I don't know. What about Sinbad or Kingdom of Heaven? If nothing else, he will be liked for those two. And I actually very much enjoy the theme he contributed to Prometheus.

 

Karol

It's interesting that almost all of the best and most enjoyable HGW solo scores came up in the mid 2000s: Sinbad, Kingdom of Heaven, Narnia 1 and 2. After that there was the Prometheus theme and... not much else.

[crocodile 8,000]

Some of those recent nature documentary scores are nice enough.

 

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

There's something about John's melodies.

 

and they sound like his too, unless I'm projecting and imagining things.

 

i remember upon hearing the theme for The Fabelmans i laughed and thought "that's such a JW melody to write".

[mstrox 6,651]

On 6/6/2023 at 7:09 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Since when? I haven't seen or heard anyone say anything along those lines. I know not everyone loved the final film as much as the first two, but by and large they seem pretty beloved, soundtrack fans or no.

HTTYD scores can go piss up a rope, imo

 

i’ve never heard HGW’s Sinbad, and I’ll say that from what I have heard, and it’s been a decent amount, I’ve never been particularly interested in a single thing from HGW solo. It’s fine, but doesn’t grab my ear.  I’ve always attributed the good parts of the JP/HGW animated scores to Powell, first of all because they all sound Powell-ish, like other stuff Powell was writing in his solo scores in the same era - and second because all of the Powell-less Shrek sequels are mediocre retreads.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

We really should change the name of this thread to “Let’s kick John Powell’s ass!” Seems pretty clear none of us like him anyway.

[mstrox 6,651]

I like Powell a lot!  Just not the dragons.

[Edmilson 7,431]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

We really should change the name of this thread to “Let’s kick John Powell’s ass!” Seems pretty clear none of us like him anyway.

I'd kick Powell in the ass if that's what it take to make him go back to scoring more than just one movie per year 

 

But don't worry, Powell in general and his HTTYD scores are generally well-liked here. Nevermind the haters.

[JTN 2,003]

8 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

We really should change the name of this thread to “Let’s kick John Powell’s ass!” Seems pretty clear none of us like him anyway.

I like him, his scores and the HTTYD films. 

[Brónach 1,302]

the first film was shockingly well received at the time (probably because it's quite perfectly executed). idont know about the other two.

 

the scores are like an early morning blowjob tho