Syrupy scores.

[Quintus 5,391]

Mrs Doubtfire is on TV right now and I can hear the music from the other room. I'd forgotten just how much treacle had been poured into the orchestration; it's almost cringeworthy. I could never hope to listen to that score outside of the movie and I can't decide whether or not its just a bad score. Either way, I don't like it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Another negative from Lee.

[Quintus 5,391]

Sh*t, am I that bad?!

Okay, I promise to go easy on the negatives for a while, I wouldn't want to come across like a grump - there are already more than enough of them around here.

That said, this a valid thread.

[Nick Parker 3,017]

I know what you are talking about, but I cannot think of any particular examples. I hate unmotivated piano "love themes".

[Red 73]

I saw Remember the Titans again recently, and the sappy score stuck out like a sore thumb. In other words, it was bad.

[Quintus 5,391]

I hate unmotivated piano "love themes".

That's exactly it!

Liar Liar has it's moments too.

[Nick Parker 3,017]

Oh, THOSE kind of scores. Basically, any score to a "message" film that I have been forced to watch in my Academic Success class ( "Pay it Forward", "Akilah and the Bee", "Freedom Writers").

EDIT: I am responding to red_rabbit.

[Quintus 5,391]

Basically any score to an Adam Sandler movie.

[Nick Parker 3,017]

Basically any score to an Adam Sandler movie.

I never paid attention to the scores. I hate it when some "hip-hop" songwriter "composes" music for "hip-hop" films.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

Yeap, I know what you mean Lee, and I hate them too.

Wouldn't say they're bad scores, they fit the often cheesy atmosphere of the movie. I don't like large parts of JNH's Dave because it's just got too much of a 'happy go lucky' feel. I need more drama in my music.

[Quintus 5,391]

Yeah, sometimes it seems a score is smaltzy for the sake of smaltz. Its almost patronising..., well to us score fans anyway.

[Henry B 49]

Lots of Mark Shaiman's scores. Blech.

[Mooz0r 23]

What about Debney's "love" theme for Bruce Almighty and Silvestri's warm theme for Cast Away (which, by the way, are uncannily similar). Also, the warm theme from Horner's Jumanji and that horrible sickly family theme that Don Davis wrote for Jurassic Park 3.

[Quintus 5,391]

Actually, I find Silvestri's theme to Castaway quite touching. Unlike many of the people in the above movies, Hanks' character goes through a hell of a lot and is wholly deserving of a nice warm melody.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't call it syrupy. It's got genuine heart.

[Quintus 5,391]

Heart it has and in spades.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

I'd also include E.T.

[Quintus 5,391]

I would too, but it's a rare thing when syrup works. JW demonstrates his genius, once again.

THAT moment (you know the one; 'bout 10 seconds long), during ET's farewell to Elliot is THE most syrupy moment in film score history and I freaking love every tearful second of it.

[indy4 152]

THAT moment (you know the one), during ET's farewell to Elliot is THE most syrupy moment in film score history and I freaking love every tearful second of it.

Agreed 100%.

[Red 73]

Actually, I find Silvestri's theme to Castaway quite touching. Unlike many of the people in the above movies, Hanks' character goes through a hell of a lot and is wholly deserving of a nice warm melody.

Yes. I think it's one of his better scores actually.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I saw Remember the Titans again recently, and the sappy score stuck out like a sore thumb. In other words, it was bad.

Trevor Rabin did an O.K. job. Nothing special, standard score. I wouldn't call it bad though.

Lots of Mark Shaiman's scores. Blech.

His City Slickers scores are awesome.

Actually, I find Silvestri's theme to Castaway quite touching. Unlike many of the people in the above movies, Hanks' character goes through a hell of a lot and is wholly deserving of a nice warm melody.

Yes. I think it's one of his better scores actually.

I agree. All of his Zemeckis stuff is solid composing.

[Quintus 5,391]

Absolutely and I'd add his J. Cameron work too. Big fan of Silvestri here.

He's done so relatively little, that I find it difficult to find criticism. I love his music.

[TownerFan 4,548]

I remember when I saw Deep Impact in theater I constantly noticed how shamelessly overwrought and sentimental James Horner's music was. It constantly emphasize every sentimental aspect of the story in such a schmaltzy way that's irritating.

Before I get assaulted, I'll say the music of course is well-written and competently orchestrated (Horner is a real composer), but it's just too sentimental for me.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I love Deep Impact. Yeah, some of it gets very emotional, but I think it fits the movie - it's Hollywood.

However, there's a difference between that and something like Liar Liar. Impact does hit me with its emotions. Liar just irritates me with its mickey mousing and fairly lame attempts to give a crap about the main character.

[John Crichton 4]

Whenever I see Deep Impact the only thing I notice about the score is how it sounds exactly like Apollo 13.

[artyjeffrey 20]

I seem to remember The Other Sister score being, like the film, cringeworthy.

Jeff-- who is enduring his neighbor's love for the "Purple Rain" album right now.

[Morlock 9]

2 scores immediately came to mind: Finding Neverland, and Free Willy. I theoretically love the latter score, but every time I listen to that main theme, I feel like I've just made my apple juice out of waaay too much syrup. Essentialy, I love the tase, it's just much too sweet for me.

[Maestro 57]

I love Free Willy!

It's my belief that there's such a thing as good schmaltz. There are certain films, composers, or just individual cases where I surrender to the schmaltz in all it's glory. There are other times where it make my eyes start twitching because it's so manufacturedly sweet.

[indy4 152]

The ending of CoS is cheesy and over the top in terms of music, but I love it.

[Bryant Burnette 451]

Hmm.

I would say that the difference between good sentimental music and syrupy music is the difference between the movie itself being engaging enough for the music to feel natural.

Most of those moments when the music takes you out of the movie with its goopiness are probably because the movie wasn't terribly involving to begin with, but all of a sudden, the music is telling you how emotionally important what you're seeing is . . . except that you know it actually isn't.

This doesn't necessarily preclude the music from being good -- Heartbeeps might be a decent example of good music that is maybe a bit too dear for the movie -- but I'd say that generally, those things go together.

[Neimoidian 13]

2 scores immediately came to mind: Finding Neverland, and Free Willy. I theoretically love the latter score, but every time I listen to that main theme, I feel like I've just made my apple juice out of waaay too much syrup. Essentialy, I love the tase, it's just much too sweet for me.

I agree about Finding Neverland. It's just to sweet for me to be able to enjoy it to the full. It's still very well written, but just not in my taste. As for Free Willy, I have no problem with it.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

Neverland I can listen to. Most of it anyway. parts of it are beautiful; it's when he gets out that recorder thing that it starts getting reaalllyy sappy. There's some stunning piano work in there as well.

[Damien F 866]

What about Debney's "love" theme for Bruce Almighty and Silvestri's warm theme for Cast Away (which, by the way, are uncannily similar). Also, the warm theme from Horner's Jumanji and that horrible sickly family theme that Don Davis wrote for Jurassic Park 3.

Agreed. Sickly is the best word to describe it. Another over the top cue during a sentimental moment is Christopher Young's music during Harry's death in Spider-man 3. Although its not exactly syrupy, I found it very intrusive, especially the choir.

Damien

[Maglorfin 195]

I love Deep Impact. Yeah, some of it gets very emotional, but I think it fits the movie - it's Hollywood.

Agreed.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

What about Debney's "love" theme for Bruce Almighty and Silvestri's warm theme for Cast Away (which, by the way, are uncannily similar). Also, the warm theme from Horner's Jumanji and that horrible sickly family theme that Don Davis wrote for Jurassic Park 3.

Agreed. Sickly is the best word to describe it. Another over the top cue during a sentimental moment is Christopher Young's music during Harry's death in Spider-man 3. Although its not exactly syrupy, I found it very intrusive, especially the choir.

Damien

I love all the themes mentioned there. Maybe not the JPIII one so much - that's just pure undiluted Hollywood.

Young's (you sure it's him? I have it labelled as one of Lurie's additional cues) is sentimental yes, but I think really gives that twist on Peter's theme a really nice workout.

[Hlao-roo 388]

Frederick Buechner once wrote that "when we sentimentalize about things, we see not so much the things themselves, I think, as we see the flood of feeling, of sentiment, that the things occasion in us, with the result that sentimentality becomes a form of blocking out the world." Sentimentality, schmaltz, treacle -- whatever you want to call it -- is a distortion of emotional reality that can distract from the inherent meaning, or lack thereof, of a moment. Of course, determining the authenticity of emotional expression is as subjective an endeavor as it gets.

[Maestro 57]

...says the Rank Sentimentalist!