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Indiana Jones: The Soundtracks Collection (official Thread)


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Back to the topic at hand....

So I re-listened to the TOD stuff that won't be on the Concord set again last night, and I changed my mind about the temple chanting :huh:

The first one, the 7 minute long one, has plenty of unique stuff in it that makes it different enough from the music we know from the album to make me now think of it as its own cue.

And the second one, actually IS the album cue more or less... a few small differences, and it cuts off early... but its almost the same.... and the Concord placement of the track right before "Short Round Escapes" just helps confirm this.

And the third one, actually had a score cue mixed in with it I missed the other other day, so I'm treating it like another cue now too...

Hey Jason, nice work you did with the list!!

I find it's a bummer they didn't include "Package from Dad," though... is anyone else bummed about that? It's very short, but I always liked the Raiders March B section the way it's played on clarinets (I thought it was clarinets!). That's a very nice moment... until the men in suits show up of course.

:lol:

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This is true, of course, but track time listings rarely vary by more than five seconds or so. To get everything we need from the ToD finale the listed track time would have to be off by an entire minute.

Not true. With the times we are given, we could have everything. "The Broken Bridge / British Relief" covers from after the Bridge Percussion music until the end of the "Indy Is Alive" segment.... "Return To The Village / Raiders March" overlaps the end of that and covers until the start of the end credits, and "End Credits" would be the rest.

The only way this set won't have everything will be if "End Credits" is actually the same "Finale And End Credits" track from the TOD OST, in which case we'll still be missing the first 26 minutes of the End Credits. Either way, though, the time of that track will be around the same (the OST replaced those 26 seconds with 32 seconds from the start of "Return To The Village".

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one of the shames about 'papa jones is shot' not being released is that it contains the actual 'the penitent man will pass' cue, making it the only test not released ( and the only cue from the last part of the movie (from tank chase) not released)

Yes a lot of the names JW chose for the TLC OST make no sense. Like that "The Penitent Man Will Pass" actually contains the music for "Name Of God" and "Leap Of Faith" challenges, not the "Penitent Man" challenge. Or how about "Escape From Venice" - they are not escaping from Venice, they are still in Venice for a while after that scene. Why not "Boat Chase"? (Would be nice to have a "Desert Chase" / "Mine Car Chase" / "Boat Chase" / "Jungle Chase" theme going, but oh well).

Or how about "Brother of the Cruciform Sword"... talk about completely undescriptive. "Keeping Up With The Joneses" is another.

It's weird how on the Concord set they've changed some Raiders tracktitles that were already perfect fine, but kept all the Last Crusade titles that were wrong.

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one of the shames about 'papa jones is shot' not being released is that it contains the actual 'the penitent man will pass' cue, making it the only test not released ( and the only cue from the last part of the movie (from tank chase) not released)

I hear ya, Luke. On my complete playlist (from the boot), I renamed "papa Jones is shot" to "The Penitent Man Will Pass" and renamed "The Penitent Man Will Pass" (from the OST) to "The Word of God / Leap of Faith". If "Father and Son Reunited" really is just "Nazi Stronghold" - then the biggest blunder on Last Crusade is including that over "Papa Jones is shot".

--

As for the Temple of Doom end credits debate, I took a look at the film yesterday and realized that "Return To The Village" goes all the way from the end of "Indy is Alive" to the exact moment when the cue ends (as heard in the LEGO game rip) - and runs a total of 3:26! As many have concluded I think this is how the cue will appear on Disc 5.

The next section, "End Credits" begins almost seamlessly with the Raiders March (as heard on the prague re-recording which was probably using the same sheet music or at least the same orchestration as ToD's "End Credits"). This cue runs about 5:15, which is a minute shorter than Concord's "End Credits" - but when you factor in the 45 seconds or so that was snipped from the closing reprise (a harsh edit in the film) and the 15 seconds of Short Rounds' theme (a better edit) that was trimmed, you get a 6:15 cue. +5 seconds of silence as with the other cues on the concord set and you get... that's right.

So my guess is that we are getting "Return To The Village", with it's anti-climatic ending on Disk 5 and "End Credits", with it's unusual opening, on Disk 2. Given that this situation is already so complicated, it's easy to believe that a mistake was made with the * and ** when someone saw "End Credits" and not "Finale and End Credits". It most likely should have a "**" nest to it. At least we can hope....

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Hey Jason, nice work you did with the list!!

I find it's a bummer they didn't include "Package from Dad," though... is anyone else bummed about that? It's very short, but I always liked the Raiders March B section the way it's played on clarinets (I thought it was clarinets!). That's a very nice moment... until the men in suits show up of course.

:huh:

Thanks!

Yea I always liked that cue too. Luckily it's on the boot.

As for the Temple of Doom end credits debate, I took a look at the film yesterday and realized that "Return To The Village" goes all the way from the end of "Indy is Alive" to the exact moment when the cue ends (as heard in the LEGO game rip) - and runs a total of 3:26! As many have concluded I think this is how the cue will appear on Disc 5.

The next section, "End Credits" begins almost seamlessly with the Raiders March (as heard on the prague re-recording which was probably using the same sheet music or at least the same orchestration as ToD's "End Credits"). This cue runs about 5:15, which is a minute shorter than Concord's "End Credits" - but when you factor in the 45 seconds or so that was snipped from the closing reprise (a harsh edit in the film) and the 15 seconds of Short Rounds' theme (a better edit) that was trimmed, you get a 6:15 cue. +5 seconds of silence as with the other cues on the concord set and you get... that's right.

So my guess is that we are getting "Return To The Village", with it's anti-climatic ending on Disk 5 and "End Credits", with it's unusual opening, on Disk 2. Given that this situation is already so complicated, it's easy to believe that a mistake was made with the * and ** when someone saw "End Credits" and not "Finale and End Credits". It most likely should have a "**" nest to it. At least we can hope....

Valentine, good work, but we already discovered all of that on pages 8 of this very thread. See specifically this post and this post and this post.

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Hey Jason, nice work you did with the list!!

I find it's a bummer they didn't include "Package from Dad," though... is anyone else bummed about that? It's very short, but I always liked the Raiders March B section the way it's played on clarinets (I thought it was clarinets!). That's a very nice moment... until the men in suits show up of course.

:lol:

Thanks!

Yea I always liked that cue too. Luckily it's on the boot.

As for the Temple of Doom end credits debate, I took a look at the film yesterday and realized that "Return To The Village" goes all the way from the end of "Indy is Alive" to the exact moment when the cue ends (as heard in the LEGO game rip) - and runs a total of 3:26! As many have concluded I think this is how the cue will appear on Disc 5.

The next section, "End Credits" begins almost seamlessly with the Raiders March (as heard on the prague re-recording which was probably using the same sheet music or at least the same orchestration as ToD's "End Credits"). This cue runs about 5:15, which is a minute shorter than Concord's "End Credits" - but when you factor in the 45 seconds or so that was snipped from the closing reprise (a harsh edit in the film) and the 15 seconds of Short Rounds' theme (a better edit) that was trimmed, you get a 6:15 cue. +5 seconds of silence as with the other cues on the concord set and you get... that's right.

So my guess is that we are getting "Return To The Village", with it's anti-climatic ending on Disk 5 and "End Credits", with it's unusual opening, on Disk 2. Given that this situation is already so complicated, it's easy to believe that a mistake was made with the * and ** when someone saw "End Credits" and not "Finale and End Credits". It most likely should have a "**" nest to it. At least we can hope....

Valentine, good work, but we already discovered all of that on pages 8 of this very thread. See specifically this post and this post and this post.

Ah, I see. Well, if JWFan has taught me nothing else it's that if you want something to be true, just keep posting it in different ways. :huh:

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Regarding "The Birds of Charlemagne", is the soft quote of theRaiders March after Henry explains tracked in? The boot I have has a different ending.

Yep. Spielberg REALLY didn't like what JW was writing for that scene apparently!

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Regarding "The Birds of Charlemagne", is the soft quote of theRaiders March after Henry explains tracked in? The boot I have has a different ending.

Yep. Spielberg REALLY didn't like what JW was writing for that scene apparently!

The Father/Son theme (aka "Keeping Up with the Joneses") was almost completely removed from the film. It appears only on a couple of cues in the final cut ("Blasphemy" and "To the Blimp", if I remember correctly). Spielberg and Williams probably preferred to avoid a too characterized thematic underlining for that aspect and preferred to rely more on the Indy theme and the Henry/Illumination theme. However, we should be glad that Williams decided to keep it for the OST album.

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There are at least FOUR different themes that Williams uses to illustrate the Father/Son relationship:

. Father/Son Theme (aka "Keeping Up with the Joneses") -- albeit almost completely removed from the final cut, this theme is used as a characterization for Indy and Henry mutual rediscovery of their relationship.

. Father/Son Theme Variation (as heard in "Inscription on the Rock", the beginning of "Canyon of the Crescent Moon" and "Finale") -- 7-note motif derived from the more developed Father/Son theme. It's used as a more somber, wistful musical depiction of the Indy/Henry relationship.

. Henry's Theme/Illumination Theme -- this one is used more in relation to the Henry's character and his noble quest to find the Holy Grail, but in the end becomes also a sort of variation for Henry's discovery of the "Illumination", which in metaphorical terms stands for his renewed relationship with Henry Jr. (as happens also in KOTCS between Indy and Mutt)

. Scherzo Theme -- exciting theme used to underline several of the Father/Son adventures during the film.

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KotCS changed it from a Henry/Indy theme to a Father/Son theme.

But it's used in relation to Henry in the film, right?

At first, when Indy sees Henry's picture.

But after the departure, it is used as Indy, Mutt, Marion, and Oxley sit on the ruins (unless you count the "somewhere your grandfather is laughing" as being in relation to Henry).

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At first, when Indy sees Henry's picture.

But after the departure, it is used as Indy, Mutt, Marion, and Oxley sit on the ruins (unless you count the "somewhere your grandfather is laughing" as being in relation to Henry).

Yeah, of course I do.

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KotCS changed it from a Henry/Indy theme to a Father/Son theme.

But it's used in relation to Henry in the film, right?

As I stated back when KOTCS first came out, the Henry/Indy or Father theme used in KOTCS is used in Last Crusade as a theme for the Grail Knight(s), many times in scenes with no trace of Henry Sr. (The venice tomb of Sir Richard, the grail knight's chamber etc.). It was only in KOTCS when it took on a new meaning. You could make the argument that it is an "illumination" theme, and I guess I can buy that, but to me it was always a theme to clearly represent the grail knights.

My guess is that Spielberg wasn't a huge fan of Williams' other thematic material for the father/son relationship (clearly - since he removed the 'keeping up with the jones' theme whenever possible) and asked JW to use the Grail Knight (Illumination?) theme instead. What's frustrating to me is that there are at least two more themes he could have used that are better suited to fatherhood.

.

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The Grail theme has a different meaning in KotCS . Williams probably just picked a theme from LC that people could remember

Now that you mention it, why was the Grail theme in Indy 4? From what I remember there are no references to it.

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Well, yes, it's a bit confusing and the use of that theme in KOTCS redefined its actual meaning, even though I always related it also to Henry's noble quest for the Grail.

Yeah, that's a good interpretation too. But it doesn't make Indy 4's references any clearer. :lol:

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It was never a theme for the Grail itself. It was a theme of the quest, so to speak, of the less material properties of the Grail, if you will, the treasure greater than eternal terrain life.. Indy and Henry's relationship was reformed due to this quest. I think the usage of the theme in KOTCS was more than fitting

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From Spielberg himself, in the LC liner notes:

"...from the "Grail Knight theme," written in the English, pastoral idiom, in major modes with very positive intervals..."

This proves two things: a. It was originally the Grail Knight theme, and b. Spielberg knows much more about music theory than I do. I couldn't pick out a major mode with positive intervals in a police line after it robbed me.

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All right, I've finally pre-ordered it. SAE tempted me with their price ($44.98), until I saw the shipping charge ($8!). So I've gotten it from Amazon at $46.99 with free shipping. As always, I was tempted to add on a cheaper classic Who DVD, but I managed to resist this time.

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All right, I've finally pre-ordered it. SAE tempted me with their price ($44.98), until I saw the shipping charge ($8!). So I've gotten it from Amazon at $46.99 with free shipping. As always, I was tempted to add on a cheaper classic Who DVD, but I managed to resist this time.

hehe...for next day shipping (from Amazon) it's costing me $11.98. I don't care about that...I just want it asap. :)

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It was never a theme for the Grail itself. It was a theme of the quest, so to speak, of the less material properties of the Grail, if you will, the treasure greater than eternal terrain life.. Indy and Henry's relationship was reformed due to this quest. I think the usage of the theme in KOTCS was more than fitting

Yes, the Grail has its own theme in LC. The Henry/Illumination Theme is used as a commentary to Henry's quest for the Grail and its own spiritual meaning, which in the end is the discovery of the Illumination and a renewed sense of the Father/Son relationship. Its use in KOTCS during the final sequences is meant to make a reference to this meaning. In fact, it starts just after Indy calls Mutt for the first time "Junior", acknowledging his fatherhood and that now he's becoming the mentor. It's a kind of rhyme that Williams and Spielberg probably wanted to enhance with the music.

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It's a grail knight searching for enlightening (what the grail represents) theme, henry sr being a knight in this search for the grail on his own.

That's why both the knight and henry have it, as well as when they find the tomb of sir richard.

To take note though, is that, at the catacombs, the theme kicks when elsa compares indy with his father "cheerful as a schoolkid" - or something. Making the connection with henry stronger

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