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Indiana Jones: The Soundtracks Collection (official Thread)


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Amazon has pre-order price guarentee: if you pre-order something and the price goes lower than the price you bought it for, they'll charge you the lowest price that was listed before release.

Exactly. Although sometimes it doesn't change on your order. Always make sure and if it doesn't update, do what Nick did, cancel and re-order.

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Anybody know why there's about 3 minutes of dead silence between "Binary Sunset Alternate" and "Main Title Archive?"

Deliberate creative decision.

Call it what you will, it's still dumb.

Um you do realize there's different takes of Main Title / Rebel Blockade on that track don't you?

Sure I do. I was talking about the unnecessary dead air.

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Wait, does it immediately reflect the lower price?

I think it does. The other day when it was 46.99 and went down to 44.99, my account said it was still 46.99. But the next day it did indeed go down to 44.99.

Although now the page says 41.99, and my account is still at 44.99. So I am sure by tomorrow it will match again.

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Did the "fake leak" shrink away due to it being revealed as a "fake"? I can't find that darn thing. (Found lots of copies of the DCC cd.)

Define "fake."

The one that emerged about six weeks to two months ago (if I recall correctly).

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Wait, does it immediately reflect the lower price?

No. Within 24 hours.

I would have thought that amazon ships them out in the orde they recieve orders so if you cancel one that you made months ago and re-order, you'll go significantly lower in the queue? BUt maybe not...

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So far I have to complement the Concord Set

Desert Chase(DCC Classics)

The Mummy Cave(Fake Leak)

Marion in the Pit(DCC LP)

ToD End Credits(edit)

ToD Over the Himalayas (Lego)

Shanghai 1935

The Marahaja/the Feast

I am missing something...

You don't believe me kingmark? you will become a true believer!! ;)

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I think the missing pages can be summed up with lots of moaning, whinging, bitching, etc. about this set.

"We're missing the Map cue!"

"Raiders is the wrong pitch!"

"Why is there no bridge percussion!?"

etc.

Nothing important lost. ;)

:lol:

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Don't forget "So, when is Crumb's extended 'Skull'-score coming?" wink.gif

Exactly, so nothing important lost.

I'm mastering it as we speak, if you want the truth, and giving it a full listen through. It's quite nice! :lol: Including those source cues is horribly jarring though... not sure what to do about those.

Mind you, my honest opinion of KOTCS, having studied every damn note of music in the film, is that less is more when it comes to expanded releases. I think a complete Kingdom would be about as listenable as playing the Schindler's List Recording Sessions all the way through.

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Don't forget "So, when is Crumb's extended 'Skull'-score coming?" wink.gif

Exactly, so nothing important lost.

I'm mastering it as we speak, if you want the truth, and giving it a full listen through. It's quite nice! :lol: Including those source cues is horribly jarring though... not sure what to do about those.

Mind you, my honest opinion of KOTCS, having studied every damn note of music in the film, is that less is more when it comes to expanded releases. I think a complete Kingdom would be about as listenable as playing the Schindler's List Recording Sessions all the way through.

Yeah, but I think the more is included, the easier it is for everybody to pick the cues they like. The source cues though could easily be put to the end of the track list... that's how I do it with bonus tracks or alternate takes.

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After I couldn't get in last night, I checked out The Raven messageboard at TheRaider.net, saw some posts about the Desert Chase pitch issue, and figured the JWFan forum was crashed due to the huge uproar over the box set quality issues.

Anyway, I got a form letter back from Amazon.com, responding to my email about the pre-order price guarantee and the set having been at $41.99 back on Nov 7th. Didn't really answer my concerns at all, so I think they pretty much are giving me the brush off. Eh, whatever, $3, not worth the pain in the rear that pushing and pushing on this would be. Now, if it was $10 or $15 that we were talking about, I think I might push a little harder on it. Oh, well. Still got a decent price on it.

An Amazon reseller already has a "used" copy for sale. :lol:

Well, my copy arrived in St Paul, MN yesterday, and for my MST3K 20th Anniversary DVD (good stuff, people, check it out if you can!) it was delivered the next day. Which clearly won't happen today but that means tomorrow, all being well. Early mail delivery tomorrow, please! I'd love to crank this stuff in my car on the way home from work!

I could have counted wrong, but I counted 31 unreleased (or contains previously unreleased) cues in this set (not counting the interview track). Amazon.com's mp3 download price for the set is $45.15, but if you just want the unreleased stuff, it's $29.70 for 30 individual $0.99 tracks. 30 because apparently "Indy's Very First Adventure" is "Album Only" (along with the interview track and the previously released "Finale & End Credits" of TLC). Is that because it's so long? Odd.

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I've missed some posts apparently, in the meantime. What's this pitch issue I'm reading about on the FSM forum? Neil? Does it affect all the cues on the Raiders album?

Does it only affect Raiders and not the rest? Or is this also the reason why Henry had to adjust the pitch on a TOD track? (If I remember correctly, that is...) What about the fifth disc?

Is it also off on the "leaked" version?

It's off by how much exactly? (By the way, it's the pitch right, meaning tone + speed? (and not just speed).

Thanks for catching this, Neil!

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The tracks are like 1 or 2 seconds shorter than they should be to match the film or something

I tried comparing samples vs DCC and I can't hear the difference in pitch ,and neither could Henry Buck who says Raiders sounds great.

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(First, fommes, I am sorry to say that I cannot help you with those questions). I mean no disrespect to veterans, but why does Tuesday have to be a holiday? I found out that my Box Set is at my local Post Office! I wonder if I can pick it up at the Post Office, because I will disrespect John Williams if I do not listen to it, and to disrespect John Williams is to disrespect a veteran.

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I did not found out if I could pick up mail today from the Post Office by searching their Frequently Asked Question page, but I did discover what "anthrax" was.

I'm pretty sure you can't pick up mail, I believe the branch offices are closed to the public, even though they may still be working "behind the scenes" so to speak.

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On the upside i thought today was Monday (don't ask me why :lol:) so that means 1 day less waiting for this set bring on friday!!

I wonder if there will be noticable improvents in audioquality in the Anything Goes track, not that my japanese version of the OST sounds bad though.

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Missing posts from this thread (not including my replies) from Nov 8, part 1:

Would anyone care to send me a link to the Lego file of Map/Out of Fuel? Also (I'm not sure I'm allowed to ask this) I wouldn't mind a link to Escaping The Pit from the Raiders leak. : )

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QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 02:05 AM) So far I have to complement the Concord Set

Desert Chase(DCC Classics)

The Mummy Cave(Fake Leak)

Marion in the Pit(DCC LP)

ToD End Credits(edit)

ToD Over the Himalayas (Lego)

Shanghai 1935

The Marahaja/the Feast

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I am missing something...

You don't believe me kingmark? you will become a true believer!! ; )

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Don't dwink! Spit it out!

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Indeed, A True Believer is a very good atmospheric cue; but I still wouldn't take it over anything in this set.

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A True Believer can't be isolated properly in the rear channels

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QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 09:51 AM) A True Believer can't be isolated pr...

QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 09:51 AM) A True Believer can't be isolated properly in the rear channels

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Ok then we have totally different DVDs.. because my rip does not contain any soundeffects!

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Does the rip in Indy's pants show up in the DVD "Jungle Chase" rip?

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no

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Ah sh--.

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Worst-executed-gag-EVER

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He certainly has some way to go before reaching the comedy heights of some other posts here.

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I still don't get that part.

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QUOTE (MissPadmé @ Nov 8 2008, 03:57 AM) QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 09:51 AM) A True Believer can't be isolated properly in the rear channels

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Ok then we have totally different DVDs.. because my rip does not contain any soundeffects!

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sorry ,my mistake .The NTSC rip is totally useable and an excellent 4.30 long completely sfx free edit can be made

Definately using this

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Out of curiosity, can anyone with the set just explain how the Map/Out of Fuel alternate works? Does it contain the bit of music where Indy puts the fedora over his face, then proceeds with some sort of alternate Map music? Why is it shorter?

Personally, I'm massively excited about this! We already have the film version in perfect audio quality (along with various other alternates and clean audio) and with a clean ending, so if you're so depressed about the alternate you can edit a film version yourself perfectly seamlessly. Seriously though, the strings in this alternate are stunning! What an amazing bit of music that we have never heard before... never... heard... before!!!! Can't wait to hear how many more unreleased gems there are in the set.. this is like Christmas!

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QUOTE (crumbs @ Nov 8 2008, 06:19 AM) Out of curiosity, can anyone with the set just explain how the Map/Out of Fuel alternate works? Does it contain the bit of music where Indy puts the fedora over his face, then proceeds with some sort of alternate Map music? Why is it shorter?

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The epic version of the love theme is much shorter

I hope it has the part where Indy puts the fedora on his face,but we don't know

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Why would it be shorter unless it was a micro-edit? Which just begs the question --- why is there a microedit unless that's how the cue was written/recorded?

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I don't think it's a microedit finally.

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So that's how the cue was recorded ... but I don't see how it matches the film at all.

From Williams perspective though, I can't fault the guy that much. As an artist, he might very well have had this version of 'Map' gather dust for decades, after being asked to re-record it for whatever reason Lucas/Spielberg may have concocted. Surely there's a great deal of artistic merit in having your work released as you intended it, rather than how others interpreted it? In no way can I have any angst against the guy for that!

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maybe the final map scene was longer and Williams had to re-score it

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I was just about to write "I'm not too fussed, yada yada yada", but then I realised every time something on this set is not what we expected/wanted I've said the exact same thing. I'm afraid if I say it again something else will go wrong!

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Hi guys !!

Long time lurker .... first time poster ... anyway ... : )

More samples at amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Indiana-Jones-The-So...5767&sr=8-5

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Strange that Nightclub Brawl doesn't seem to have the Anything Goes quotes... maybe there was a rights issue there?

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QUOTE (MattyO @ Nov 8 2008, 06:44 AM) I was just about to write "I'm not too fussed, yada yada yada", but then I realised every time something on this set is not what we expected/wanted I've said the exact same thing. I'm afraid if I say it again something else will go wrong!

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yeah ,that's why I needed to hear that clip of the end of Short Round Helps

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QUOTE (netpadawan @ Nov 8 2008, 06:51 AM) Hi guys !! Including disc 5 !!!! --...

QUOTE (netpadawan @ Nov 8 2008, 06:51 AM) Hi guys !!

Long time lurker .... first time poster ... anyway ... : )

More samples at amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Indiana-Jones-The-So...5767&sr=8-5

Including disc 5 !!!!

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your link doesn;t work and I see no sound clips at amazon

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just copy-paste

http://www.amazon.com/Indiana-Jones-The-So...5767&sr=8-5 (http://www.amazon.com/Indiana-Jones-The-So...5767&sr=8-5)

it works !!!!

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If there was a rights issue on "Anything Goes" then the main title wouldn't appear on the album. I imagine all the rights issues concerning the Cole Porter song would have been dealt with at the time of making ToD. The Temple of Doom version, being in Chinese and being orchestrated by Williams is probably considered as part of the score proper and thus any references to it are included in all re-use fees associated with the ToD score.

Or I could be talking out of my donkey.

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Confirmation of this track would be nice then :P The quotes make that cue!

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Hmmmm, but Jason didn't note time discrepancies .

So we hear how Escape in the Truck transitions in to Berlin...I will leave it that way

The Blimp Turns Around...wow.

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Did you get it to work KM?

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yes

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Hmm they're not working for me, coming up with "Error!". Damn it!

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Try another browser

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WOW. The amazon clips are AMAZING!!!! :D

QUOTE (crumbs @ Nov 8 2008, 01:57 PM) Strange that Nightclub Brawl doesn't seem to have the Anything Goes quotes... maybe there was a rights issue there?

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Maybe John Williams didn't want it there. Like with the one track from A.I. where he didn't want the suite from "Der Rosenkavalier" played along with his music. But I don't care!

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Works for me. No huge revelations - the rips from the guy earlier chose some far better places to represent the new music, and obviously the compressed samples aren't going to represent the remastering well.

3 days and counting. I'm sure this thing will leak sometime over the weekend but I'm not holding my breath.

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QUOTE (richuk @ Nov 8 2008, 07:42 AM) 3 days and counting. I'm sure this thing will leak sometime over the weekend but I'm not holding my breath.

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yeah but if it doesn't I have to wait 10 more days +

At the very least a single zipped folder containing the unreleased music from all 3 films would be nice .We could fill the gaps with our old albums until we get the actual box.

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Still can't get it. I've tried Firefox and Explorer plus downloaded the latest Flash updates. This is annoying!

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I think the sound quality is DEFINITELY better than on the Original Soundtracks!

And I don't think Short Round Helps sounds inferior... it all sounds fantastic. : D

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QUOTE (Jessie Lohner @ Nov 8 2008, 07:50 AM) And I don't think Short Round Helps sounds inferior... it all sounds fantastic. : D

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I agree

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Wow, Alarm! is great too. I love the way it goes from the bold Nazi statements straight to the Scherzo... hahaha. John Williams is a genius. ; )

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QUOTE (crumbs @ Nov 8 2008, 11:57 AM) Strange that Nightclub Brawl doesn't seem to have the Anything Goes quotes... maybe there was a rights issue there?

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That's another thing they've screwed up. Like someone else has said, the Anything Goes statements are what help to make that cue what it is! bowdown

Is this John Williams' doing? If it is, what's he trying to do, get everyone really excited about this release and then hack everyone off when they release the stuff they want isn't going to be included? :eek2:

I don't get it. How hard is it to do it properly? :lol:

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When Williams and Lucas are involved, it must involve use of the force.

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Whoah whoah whoah! That hasn't been confirmed. I'm fairly certain the "Anything Goes" references are there as the track length matches the movie length. Far out this board is strung tightly at the moment. It's really starting to piss me off.

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Does anyone else wish they'd just reissued the OSTs?

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QUOTE (richuk @ Nov 8 2008, 08:25 AM) When Williams and Lucas are involved, i...

QUOTE (richuk @ Nov 8 2008, 08:25 AM) When Williams and Lucas are involved, it must involve use of the force.

Remember how jubliant we all were when we found out Laurent was producing this set and how they'd chosen someone who knew what they were doing?

Ha.. haa.. ha.

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Actually this set could be much worse...much worse

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QUOTE (MattyO @ Nov 8 2008, 04:27 PM) Whoah whoah whoah! That hasn't been confirmed. I'm fairly certain the "Anything Goes" references are there as the track length matches the movie length. Far out this board is strung tightly at the moment. It's really starting to piss me off.

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Have you listened to the sound clips on amazon?

It's definitely not there. But that's not a big problem, IMO. :jump:

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Even so it's not a huge deal, those Anything Goes bursts always sounded like source fragments tracked in. Honestly, if people are so unhappy just make your own damn OST edits, using only the stuff from the original releases. Because that's all we might have gotten!

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QUOTE (Charlie Brigden @ Nov 8 2008, 08:27 AM) Does anyone else wish they'd just reissued the OSTs?

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Are you F##%$%@ kidding?

So far there is a few (non issue) mistakes:

Desert Chase OST version :who cares the DCC is complete

Washington ending/End Credits transition: not even worth fretting 1 second over

Map/Out of Fuel Alternate :We have the film version insert anyways

No ToD end Credits: that the biggie but still solvable

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Maybe those Anything Goes snippets wasn't even John Williams's doing!

Remember, there was a band in that room. Maybe JW just composed around what they were playing! Hahaha. :P

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QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 01:32 PM) QUOTE (Charlie Brigden @ Nov 8 2008, 08:27 AM) Does anyone else wish they'd just reissued the OSTs?

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Are you F##%$%@ kidding?

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Sort of, but it'd save 100 pages or so of ungrateful posts.

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Yeah ,it always sounded like score mixed with source music .We probably get to hear the score part of this cue

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QUOTE (MattyO @ Nov 8 2008, 08:27 AM) Whoah whoah whoah! That hasn't been confirmed. I'm fairly certain the "Anything Goes" references are there as the track length matches the movie length. Far out this board is strung tightly at the moment. It's really starting to piss me off.

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I can confirm it isn't there. A shame cause I was hoping it would be.

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Well,it confirms the Anything Goes exerpts (played by the band) is source music and the actual cue is really something else since it's the same times

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It would also explain why the "Shanghai, 1935" transition is missing.

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yes,that too is source music

On the other hand ,Anything Goes is supposed to be a day dream sequence by Willie so it's score

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It is?

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Makes perfect sense.

I still can't get the Amazon samples to work, something screwy is going on with my computer or my internet settings, I don't know. Is it possible for the samples to be isolated somewhere else? I remember that was done for the KotCS soundtrack at one point. If not, oh well, but I'm off to dreamland now, not as extravagant as Willie Scott's dreamland, but filled with John Williams instrumentation nonetheless.

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QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 01:39 PM) yes,that too is source music

On the other hand ,Anything Goes is supposed to be a day dream sequence by Willie so it's score

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Hmmm. I'm not sure. I thought the fanfare was part of the score, as were the statements during the brawl? ;)

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I'm kind of disappointed that the nightclub brawl doesn't have the anyhting goes fanfare but no worry I'll just used my dvd rip with free from sfx and edit it into the track. But the one I can't wait for is Alarm its the only track I do have that has sfx which I think ruins the track.

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While I'm slightly annoyed by certain things missing hat we thought were going to be there - it is kind of cool in a way. We're learning new things about a score that was written 20 years ago, it's kind of exciting really!

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You can't insert the alternate MAP into the concort version...I tried.

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Nov 8 part 2:

No suprise that the Anything Goes nightclub music wasn't added. I always wondered if it was part of the score or source music.

Or perhaps the music we're getting was the version that Williams orignally recorded and the cue heard in the film was re-scored.

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QUOTE (Mark Olivarez @ Nov 8 2008, 02:31 PM) Or perhaps the music we're getting was the version that Williams orignally recorded and the cue heard in the film was re-scored.

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Yeah, I think that's a possibility too.

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Dammit, I wish the Anything Goes part of "Nightclub Brawl" would be released, that's actually my favorite part of the cue.

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I'm fairly certain it's the original score cue and Anything Goes was just source music

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Source music or not, it was specifically recorded to match the rest of the cue

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But if I remember the film correctly, there's not 2:31 of non-Anything Goes music. Doesn't is start after about 30 seconds of original music?

Unless, as Mark said, this is a completely different cue from the one heard in the film.

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Or perhaps there were legal issues over the rights.

The Lego game didn't use Anything Goes but recorded a similar sounding cue to be played for the opening of the TOD segment and nightclub brawl.

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How many more alternate/non film versions are going to be sprung on us?

Meh.

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this seems like the last one . Listening to the sound clips everything else seems to match the OSTs or film version . I was worried most about Short Round Helps but it is the film version

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QUOTE (richuk @ Nov 8 2008, 02:51 PM) How many more alternate/non film versions are going to be sprung on us?

Meh.

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I don't mind hearing alternative/original cues, but there is a time and a place for them I think. : )

For example, on a 2-CD score:

- The 1st disc should have the cues from the movie

- The 2nd disc should have the remaining cues from the movie, plus alternates etc.

Hope you all get the idea! : D

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It's very likely that the "Anything Goes" quotations were recorded as inserts after the main scoring sessions.

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I hope Return to the Village is an alternate.

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QUOTE (Charlie Brigden @ Nov 8 2008, 03:08 PM) I hope Return to the Village is an alternate.

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Why? The movie version is great! :eek2:

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It's a joke, I'm just finding this whole thing very funny. A lot of people are making base assumptions without knowing exactly how the score was originally recorded, which is why I wish we were getting liner notes ala Rhino's SUPERMAN or the SEs. In any case, I think this is going to make TOD a pretty interesting first listen.

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QUOTE (Charlie Brigden @ Nov 8 2008, 03:17 PM) It's a joke, I'm just finding this whole thing very funny. A lot of people are making base assumptions without knowing exactly how the score was originally recorded, which is why I wish we were getting liner notes ala Rhino's SUPERMAN or the SEs. In any case, I think this is going to make TOD a pretty interesting first listen.

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Yeah I agree with what you're saying, but it is nice to get what you hear in the film rather than something else.

Maybe on the CD covers when it lists the tracks it should say (Alternate)? :P

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QUOTE (Maxxie @ Nov 8 2008, 03:20 PM) Yeah I agree with what you're saying, but it is nice to get what you hear in the film rather than something else.

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Talk like that is what got us TPM UE.

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QUOTE (Maxxie @ Nov 8 2008, 10:20 AM) QUOTE (Charlie Brigden @ Nov 8 2008, 03:17 PM) It's a joke, I'm just finding this whole thing very funny. A lot of people are making base assumptions without knowing exactly how the score was originally recorded, which is why I wish we were getting liner notes ala Rhino's SUPERMAN or the SEs. In any case, I think this is going to make TOD a pretty interesting first listen.

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Yeah I agree with what you're saying, but it is nice to get what you hear in the film rather than something else.

Maybe on the CD covers when it lists the tracks it should say (Alternate)? :P

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don't worry,I hear the entire box set is sped up 4% to match the European DVD's

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QUOTE (Charlie Brigden @ Nov 8 2008, 03:17 PM) It's a joke, I'm just finding this whole thing very funny. A lot of people are making base assumptions without knowing exactly how the score was originally recorded.

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That's my problem Charlie. I buy expanded versions to hear the great music from the film. I think it ruins the whole idea to put in a load of alternate sections just because they were written that way to begin with. Maybe not so drastic if a few seconds were changed in the film, but to put a whole different arrangement kind of disconnects it from film for me, and in some cases

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QUOTE (Charlie Brigden @ Nov 8 2008, 03:25 PM) Talk like that is what got us TPM UE. bowdown

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Okay I don't know what that means. What's TPM? Star Wars? :jump:

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QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 03:26 PM) don't worry,I hear the entire box set is sped up 4% to match the European DVD's

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I find that hard to believe. Or are you joking?! :lol:

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There's a difference between alternates and replicating UE like film edits though.

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QUOTE (richuk @ Nov 8 2008, 03:30 PM) That's my problem Charlie. I buy expanded versions to hear the great music from the film. I think it ruins the whole idea to put in a load of alternate sections just because they were written that way to begin with. Maybe not so drastic if a few seconds were changed in the film, but to put a whole different arrangement kind of disconnects it from film for me, and in some cases means we still have unreleased passages.

I know this could come across as obsessive and having completely wrong priorities (and not being grateful), but music I think is one of those things that really gets deep inside you, and knowing that the music you loved in the film is sitting on a computer somewhere, and that a release like this is only releasing some of it, and getting half of that wrong, it's annoying.

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Applause!!! : D

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That's why I like to use the phrase "be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it".

Cues get recorded and then there are tweaks made. For instance, the travel cue was recorded and then Spielberg/Lucas decided to extend the scene or felt the music needed to be different so they had Williams record a short section of the love theme to splice in. He may not have even re-recorded the entire cue, just a short section to add.

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(Because the Amazon.com samples will not play on my computer): How is the actual sound quality? Can anyone detect the "changes in audio quality" that was reported a few days ago?

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QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 03:33 PM) Map /Out of Fuel should have been the film version ,I'd be mad if we didn't have the insert from another source

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Seconded.

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no

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Yep. So include the spliced in love theme for the release. Tiny edits are made to merge takes in many normal cues, so why not do it there?

Very debatable issue indeed. In most cases, my preference would be to release either version as a alternate as long as the edit isn't too jarring.

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I agree on the comments made about the alternates. If they are putting out a set of music from Indiana Jones films that would naturally to me imply that the music would be the score as heard in the film but of course unedited full takes. And as this is not an initial release of this music there is time to think on how to compile these albums. Alternates end up on the OSTs because score albums are compiled while in the middle of scoring process and thus may often contain alternates that will be revised at the sessions later on and composer does not have time to change what is on the locked down CD product.

Producers of this set could have rectified these things beforehand with forethought but here we still have alternates of iconic music which people know and love. People want to hear what they heard in the film, music which they associate with the movie and have loved while seeing that film. If these albums would be double discs with space to spare alternate music would be most welcome to shed light on the scoring process and how the music of any given scene can change and go through different stages based on collaboration of the composer and director. Of course providing alternates with no explanation why they are here and why are the original film versions missing leaves tons of questions and most people dissatisfied.

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From what I can gather Laurent put the version he likes the best on the set .Like E.T. is Dying alternate

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Yes, he likes best. This isn't a damn school project, it's a serious release.

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I'm glad we are getting the versions as originally recored and intended by the composer. We should be lucky. What I find annoying is people that only listen to film music to remind themselves of the movie. That's why there's this whole obsession with chronoligal order, source cues and such. I'm just so happy about this release. And we get to hear music we didn't even know existed or how trully the original cues sounded like. If Willy's theme was a insert recored seperately for the Out of Fuel track, I am more than happy we get the full, unhindered version on this set.

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Good form.

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Well he seems to be compiling these score albums based on his "feelings". He must have been hearing JW's ghostly voice in his ear at the moment of choosing tracks whispering "Use the Alternate Laurent. Use the Alternate."

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They are not alternates. They are cues without the inserts.

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Which is not what we heard and love from the film.

I'm just in a weird mood at the moment... my computer's BSOD on me 5 times today...

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So, technically, could the "film versions" be "Alternates"?

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There's a bit of lack of logic in this set .

for ToD End Credits and Desert Chase we get the OST album versions and re-edits for other cues

For Map/Out of Fuel we get the intended version not the iconic film version

For Indy Rides the Statue we get the insert not the intended version

We also get unused music in some cues at the expense of unreleased film cues.

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The film versions are most likely edited and with inserts. I'm also glad we're not getting that Nazi theme rendition on The Tank track. it would be jarring. We should be grateful we are getting the original tracks as written and unhindered by the constraints of the movie.

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but not for Desert chase and ToD End Credits

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QUOTE (king mark @ Nov 8 2008, 04:09 PM) We also get unused music in some cues at the expense of unreleased film cues.

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And why is this a problem?

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Well, Fortune and Glory is missing

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I know that, but what's wrong with including unused music? We're getting music we didn't even know existed. It's a revelation

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I like that too

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Are there any places that the scores can be listened to in their entirety? I know it's a few days away....but I was never good at waiting.

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QUOTE (Merkel @ Nov 8 2008, 04:14 PM) I know that, but what's wrong with including unused music? We're getting music we didn't even know existed. It's a revelation

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Yes, but the unused music is at the expense of the film music i.e. the stuff we actually want!

Alternates should be on a seperate disc.

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QUOTE (Merkel @ Nov 8 2008, 07:04 PM) I'm glad we are getting the versions as originally recored and intended by the composer. We should be lucky. What I find annoying is people that only listen to film music to remind themselves of the movie. That's why there's this whole obsession with chronoligal order, source cues and such. I'm just so happy about this release. And we get to hear music we didn't even know existed or how trully the original cues sounded like. If Willy's theme was a insert recored seperately for the Out of Fuel track, I am more than happy we get the full, unhindered version on this set.

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Romäo I can understand quite well your point of listening to this music as pure music with no association with the film but I would also say that while film music might work on its own it is still programmatic music with context. Film music tells a story much like any opera or ballet or theater music. You can certainly listen to it on its own but the context adds another layer to this music as much as this music adds another layer to a film. Without the context this music tells a different story. It does not make the listener less imaginative or more if he/she wants to know the context or be ignorant of it. But at least I think the musical experience of a film score is only enhanced by knowing what it scores. Raiders March would be fun march reprised often in Indy scores but without Indiana Jones' character behind it, it would not be the same or have the same effect. The Ark theme would be menacing, perhaps religious and ancient sounding, but without knowing to what it is tied, would it be as powerful.

And wanting a score complete and in chronological order when the music is as vivid as JWs best works are at depicting the story in musical form is not so unimaginative or obessive. I would prefer to hear an entire opera, ballet, theater music or any other programmatic work complete with a dramatic arc from start to finish and relish at the drama of the music with all the twists and turns and buildup to the finale.

With this said I am mostly very happy with this set being released which does not mean that it could not be improved in some ways.

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QUOTE (graffin13 @ Nov 8 2008, 04:16 PM) Are there any places that the scores can be listened to in their entirety? I know it's a few days away....but I was never good at waiting.

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Not that we know of. Guess we'll all have to wait! :lol:

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QUOTE (graffin13 @ Nov 8 2008, 04:16 PM) Are there any places that the scores can be listened to in their entirety? I know it's a few days away....but I was never good at waiting.

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The film!

I agree with Merkel. I am very happy that we are getting stuff we didn't know existed.

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I'd rather get the cues as written and recorded, edited together if that was the intent when they were recorded. Any subsequent rescoring that is inserted should be bonus tracks labeled "film version" or "film edit". So I'm happy with the decision on the "Map" situation. Since the epic rendition of Willie's theme was a later decision and a later composition, it should not be used in place of the original recording but as a bonus track or alternate if included at all.

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I understand that, Mikko, and agree to an extent. Now, some people complained that the Alarm! track was placed after the Scherzo and called it sloppy. I think that's an huge overstatement. The Scherzo can be seen as a concert suite of sorts and greatly develops the theme. Placing the Scherzo before the track Alarm!, therefore introduing the Scherzo and the Nazi March beforehand makes a lot of sense as a listening experience and as a musical listening journey. Not to say it would be wrong the other way around, far from it. But it's the kind of decision I can perfectly understand.

Hearing a track as it was written, without the constratins of last-minute editing of the movie, is a gift.

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Perhaps I have missed this in the heat of this discussion and the length of the thread but where do we have a confirmation that some pieces of cues (like The Map/No Fuel) are actually inserts?

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QUOTE (Maxxie @ Nov 8 2008, 04:19 PM) QUOTE (graffin13 @ Nov 8 2008, 04:16 PM) Are there any places that the scores can be listened to in their entirety? I know it's a few days away....but I was never good at waiting.

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Not that we know of. Guess we'll all have to wait! ;)

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I suppose...If I have to :D

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QUOTE (Incanus @ Nov 8 2008, 04:24 PM) Perhaps I have missed this in the heat of this discussion and the length of the thread but where do we have a confirmation that some pieces of cues (like The Map/No Fuel) are actually inserts?

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We don't. We're only assuming.

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QUOTE (Merkel @ Nov 8 2008, 11:23 AM) I understand that, Mikko, and agree to an extent. Now, some people complained that the Alarm! track was placed after the Scherzo and called it sloppy. I think that's an huge overstatement. The Scherzo can be seen as a concert suite of sorts and greatly develops the theme. Placing the Scherzo before the track Alarm!, therefore introduing the Scherzo and the Nazi March beforehand makes a lot of sense as a listening experience and as a musical listening journey. Not to say it would be wrong the other way around, far from it. But it's the kind of decision I can perfectly understand.

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Unfortunately, this set doesn't represent the full development of the Scherzo theme. It's first heard in the cue "Elsa's Betrayal" from the boot. Anyway, I don't have a problem with an incidental version of a theme coming before the "concert" version.

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I don't either, Henry. But I can understand the reasoning behind the sequencing of the TLC album.

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I am agreeing with Merkel about what he's been saying. I love chronological order scores but I also love to have them the complete intended versions...not some hacked up jobs. I don't mind what's on this set...I guess I'm not anal about it as quite a few people here are since I'm not into the Indiana Jones music that much.

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In this day and age sequencing of an album is the least of our worries.

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While I'm very appreciative of this set there are certain producers that I wish could work on big projects like this. ; )

I don't listen to the music to re-live the film. I prefer to listen to it as I would any other type of music. That's why I'm careful to not fall in love with cues heard in the film. you never know how they are assembled.

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QUOTE (Mark Olivarez @ Nov 8 2008, 11:44 AM) While I'm very appreciative of this set there are certain producers that I wish could work on big projects like this. ; )

I don't listen to the music to re-live the film. I prefer to listen to it as I would any other type of music. That's why I'm careful to not fall in love with cues heard in the film. you never know how they are assembled.

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Truer words have never been typed before. I too don't like most film version cues because a lot of them can be rescored or chopped up as stated earlier.

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Well, we're nearly half-way to 100 posts peeps! : D

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QUOTE (Merkel @ Nov 8 2008, 08:23 AM) Now, some people complained that the Alarm! track was placed after the Scherzo and called it sloppy. I think that's an huge overstatement.

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When we hear this album though, it will be painfully obvious that "The Austrian Way" is supposed to lead into "Alarm!" which is supposed to lead into "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra". It'll be jumping around all over the place. Fortunately iTunes will make it very simple to re-sequence this "deliberate creative decision".

And wow, that interview track sounds great!!!!!!!

Neil

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