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Indiana Jones: The Soundtracks Collection (official Thread)


Mr. Breathmask
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Ok guys, I've just finished my first listening of Temple of Doom. I'm on cloud nine, I had a huge smile on my face for the whole duration of the CD.

The disc sounds amazing on my stereo system and I have to say the choice of the cues are great, the CD flows wonderfully from beginning to end. Yes, I would have joined some cues if I would have been in charge (mostly, "Out of Fuel" into "Slalom on Mt. Humol", "Saving Willie" into "Slave Children's Crusade" into "Shorty Helps" and "British Relief" into the "End Credits"), but this is a very minor quibble. The rest is fine as it is.

I've waited YEARS to finally listen to all this music on CD. I still can't believe it's here. Thanks Concord, Mr Bouzereau and all the people involved. And thanks to Maestro Williams for all this wonderful, crazy, exihilarating, bigger-than-life, joyful and immense music.

Now, on to The Last Crusade! Wooo! :)

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What for? To get a pre-fabricated reply by 'Brandi' or 'Muffy' from customer services?

Hey, I do those all the time at work.

You make me sick :)

I hope for nothing more than the forthcoming interview with Bouzereau (yay, spelt it right at last) to give us some good insights, and maybe to provide some real excuses / other people to blame for the set's flaws. Preserving Williams' original intentions just doesn't cut it with me, especially when it actually creates more work.

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I hate having tracks that continue into the next track.

Firstly my iPod apparently doesn't support gapless playback.

However, more importantly, I like listening to various tracks in random mode.

Therefore I like to have something like a proper beginning and end to each track.

I will thus either add fade-in/out's to my tracks or combine them whenever I can.

That's easily fixed in Audacity, a free audio editing software (www.audacity.com). You can easily combine segue tracks into a single long track for your i-pod, or (with a bit more effort and creativity) you can clean up the endings of each shorter track to give them a more natural sounding ending. This later is of course rather more difficult, and will give more variable results.

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Ok guys, I've just finished my first listening of Temple of Doom. I'm on cloud nine, I had a huge smile on my face for the whole duration of the CD.

The disc sounds amazing on my stereo system and I have to say the choice of the cues are great, the CD flows wonderfully from beginning to end. Yes, I would have joined some cues if I would have been in charge (mostly, "Out of Fuel" into "Slalom on Mt. Humol", "Saving Willie" into "Slave Children's Crusade" into "Shorty Helps" and "British Relief" into the "End Credits"), but this is a very minor quibble. The rest is fine as it is.

I've waited YEARS to finally listen to all this music on CD. I still can't believe it's here. Thanks Concord, Mr Bouzereau and all the people involved. And thanks to Maestro Williams for all this wonderful, crazy, exihilarating, bigger-than-life, joyful and immense music.

Now, on to The Last Crusade! Wooo! :)

I share your enthuasism! :)

However, I cannot understand why some people say they wish "cues were joined together" or that they would have "included the inserts." I mean, that's basically what they did with the Phantom Menace UE, isn't it?

I mean, I'd rather have what JW recorded, not the way it's presented in the movie!

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No, it did not. It's evident that the pitch problems arose when Concord hastily remastered Raiders (and perhaps Temple of Doom too) for greater quality.

How do we know that it was 'hastily remastered'?

It seems that the leaked version of Raiders was going to be the real release, so the remastering must have been done at the last minute. And as the pitch problems show, it was done carelessly.

However, I cannot understand why some people say they wish "cues were joined together" or that they would have "included the inserts." I mean, that's basically what they did with the Phantom Menace UE, isn't it?

I mean, I'd rather have what JW recorded, not the way it's presented in the movie!

Williams doesn't record for listening presentation. He writes continuous musical cues and then breaks them into parts to make the recording process easier. "Saving Willie, "Slave Children's Crusade" and "Short Round Helps" must have been conceived as a single piece. If you want to hear everything as Williams recorded it, would you want to hear the "Nightclub Brawl" dance orchestra overlays separate, rather than mixed into "Nightclub Brawl" as they were obviously intended to be?

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Ok guys, I've just finished my first listening of Temple of Doom. I'm on cloud nine, I had a huge smile on my face for the whole duration of the CD.

The disc sounds amazing on my stereo system and I have to say the choice of the cues are great, the CD flows wonderfully from beginning to end. Yes, I would have joined some cues if I would have been in charge (mostly, "Out of Fuel" into "Slalom on Mt. Humol", "Saving Willie" into "Slave Children's Crusade" into "Shorty Helps" and "British Relief" into the "End Credits"), but this is a very minor quibble. The rest is fine as it is.

I've waited YEARS to finally listen to all this music on CD. I still can't believe it's here. Thanks Concord, Mr Bouzereau and all the people involved. And thanks to Maestro Williams for all this wonderful, crazy, exihilarating, bigger-than-life, joyful and immense music.

Now, on to The Last Crusade! Wooo! :)

I share your enthuasism! :)

However, I cannot understand why some people say they wish "cues were joined together" or that they would have "included the inserts." I mean, that's basically what they did with the Phantom Menace UE, isn't it?

I mean, I'd rather have what JW recorded, not the way it's presented in the movie!

No, what people are talking about is joining the cues where they were originally intended, or including alternate versions that utilize the inserts as intended. That is a different matter entirely from something like the UE, where they cut and replaced music like in the film, but NOT as it was originally intended.

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However, I cannot understand why some people say they wish "cues were joined together" or that they would have "included the inserts." I mean, that's basically what they did with the Phantom Menace UE, isn't it?

I mean, I'd rather have what JW recorded, not the way it's presented in the movie!

You know, in the end it's just and only a matter of personal preferences and nothing else. Generally, I too prefer to have separate tracks, but in many cases the music is clearly written to segue into the next cue. It's recorded in shorter segments only to facilitate the process.

In the end, it's choice of whoever assembles the album how to deal with these kind of issues.

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Hmmm, I think JW wrote these pieces separately. Of course they are meant to segue into each other in the movie, but they are still separate pieces. Like "Anything Goes," "Indy Negotiates," "Nightclub Brawl," "Fast Streets of Shanghai," "Map Out of Fuel," "Slalom on Mt. Humol" etc.--they all segue into each other. But they are CLEARLY separate pieces! I mean, no one, not even John Williams, writes a 40 minute piece and then breaks them up. He wrote music for these scenes/reels and then joined them together! Not just because it's easier for the studio orchestra to perform them, but it's easier to write that way! Mind you, I'm sure that's not always the case, but I think most of the time.

I think it's OK the way it's presented on the CD. Those of you who want to make a 30 minute track, can easily join these cues together. Those who don't, have the original recordings the way the orchestra played them. ;)

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I mean, no one, not even John Williams, writes a 40 minute piece and then breaks them up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony

Obviously Jessie you got a lot to learn about scoring. ;)

A composer can write a 40 minute piece of music and break it up how he sees fit or how the director wants it.

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I mean, no one, not even John Williams, writes a 40 minute piece and then breaks them up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony

Obviously Jessie you got a lot to learn about scoring. :P

A composer can write a 40 minute piece of music and break it up how he sees fit or how the director wants it.

Nope. A composer writes several pieces and then can join them together how he or the director sees fit. As was clearly done in the Indy movies... that's why the tracks are presented on the CD that way. ;)

I think we are talking in circles. :|

I think that you guys are being too harsh on whoever mastered these Disks. Have any of you ever considered that the masterer (?) was tone-deaf?

;):lol:

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Stop, you are making me in an "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" mood now. Let me enjoy "Raiders of the Lost Ark"! ( I am currently listening to "Map Room: Dawn". Oh, and "Bad Dates" is kind of useless, huh?)

Well we have the complete Raiders soundtrack.

The two inserts missing are just snare drum extensions (the rolling ball and 8m3 fix2.

If we didnt had bad dates we would be complaining.

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yes .oh why couldn't they include Bad Dates ???It's almost complete but it's not waaaah waaah Bad Dates is the Raiders equivalent of Bridge Percussion,so deep in hidden richness and meaning. Without it all the suspense leading into The Map Room is ruined. How are we supposed to take a break from all the action in The Basket Game with no Bad Dates..now the c.d. is a terrible listening experience.

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I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I'm not trudging through 85 pages to find it. How come the track "Alarm!" is presented after "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra" on the Concorde CD, when it should come before it?

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I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I'm not trudging through 85 pages to find it. How come the track "Alarm!" is presented after "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra" on the Concorde CD, when it should come before it?

No reason.

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I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I'm not trudging through 85 pages to find it. How come the track "Alarm!" is presented after "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra" on the Concorde CD, when it should come before it?

Deliberate creative decisions.

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Just finished Return To The Village/End Credits, complete with Short Round counterpoint and pitch corrections. Definitely hits the sweet spot. ;) I love ToD.

The final pitch corrections, for those interested, are:

Return to the Village: + 10 cents = + 0.10

End Credits: - 8 cents = - 0.08

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NOOOO! It must be exact change!

Heh, wouldn't it be funny if Concord decided to charge us the sum of the pitch changes to get corrected tracks. I wonder what it would add up to? With so many cues being sharp, they'd probably owe US money.

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The job of recording from the tapes must've been given to a temp or a bald headed executive... no one else could make such random and varied cock-ups :devil:

"So I press... record.... then, umm, what does this dial here do?"

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To pixie_twinkle: I actually do things like that every now and then.

Depends on whether I care about the score/tracks enough.

I have begun messing around with my favourite scores.

Especially complete bootlegs in complete recordings form needed some work.

I made the Sky Captain complete recordings into a nice 2-CD version now with the tracks joined properly.

I'm looking forward to having/making new Indiana Jones and Star Wars ones soon.

Personally I like long tracks, but only when it is the same "style" all the way through.

For example, "The Battle, To Dawg's Ship, Morgan Battles Dawg, Dawg's Demise, The Triumph" from Cutthroat Island

is a really good track.

However, I wouldn't join the entire beginning of Temple of Doom up till the end of Slalom on Mt. Humol in one track.

I do have a 15-minute "The Bridge, Finale and End Credits" as the last track on my current Temple of Doom version.

After getting the box set though, I'm intending to break that up into two tracks.

One for the final action scene (Water!/Bridge Percussion/Broken Bridge/British Relief) and one for the finale and end credits.

BTW: Does "Bad Dates" include "The Poisoning" and "Bad Dates" from the bootleg?

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I mean, no one, not even John Williams, writes a 40 minute piece and then breaks them up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony

Obviously Jessie you got a lot to learn about scoring. :lol:

A composer can write a 40 minute piece of music and break it up how he sees fit or how the director wants it.

Nope. A composer writes several pieces and then can join them together how he or the director sees fit. As was clearly done in the Indy movies... that's why the tracks are presented on the CD that way. :lol:

I think we are talking in circles. :devil:

--------------------------------------------------------

let's also not forget some limitations, such as those enforced by the British Musician's Union which dictate how many minutes of score are recorded each day. Surely that has an effect on the length of pieces. Obviously more so when recorded in England. I have no idea if similar rules apply in America

apologies for not quoting Jessie correctly...... it all went a bit odd. :nod:

Also, I guess that argument is totally void when you consider the skill of the "music editor" but it's still possible something to consider

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Anyone know why the fanfare in "Water!" in the film which plays over the wide shot of Indy/Willie/Shorty escaping the tunnel onto the cliff isn't included in the set? :P

I know, nothing major, just curious if it's tracked or something.

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I tought it was to minimize performance mistakes. So a musician can't screw up a take in the last minute of a 15 minute piece.

That's one of the reasons, but there are plenty more. The main advantages are greater control over the performance and resulting recording, the ability to make corrections to a smaller section of music rather than re-recording an entire cue, and simply to allow the musicians to provide a better performance. Its easier to sustain a good performance within smaller chunks of a cue than to try and maintain the intensity and quality of a performance over a longer period of time. Playing even a few minutes of music can be daunting at times, depending on the piece. One of my favorite band pieces is Esprit De Corps by Robert Jager. Its fun as hell to play, and incredibly complicated. By the end of that piece, which is only about 5 minutes long, you're out of breath. Its awesome, but not practical when recording a film score. That's not to say it can't be done, or that the musicians can't handle it. Far from it. It just makes things easier.

There's also the added advantage of having separate pieces of music to reassemble into a different sequence. As terrible as the re-cutting of the SW prequel scores sounds, its very likely that many of those individual sections were indeed recorded separately. It all comes down to the needs of the Composer, Conductor, Orchestra, and Director, and what gives them the most options when editing the score.

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As terrible as the re-cutting of the SW prequel scores sounds, its very likely that many of those individual sections were indeed recorded separately.

... Not even close.

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I tought it was to minimize performance mistakes. So a musician can't screw up a take in the last minute of a 15 minute piece.

That's one of the reasons, but there are plenty more. The main advantages are greater control over the performance and resulting recording, the ability to make corrections to a smaller section of music rather than re-recording an entire cue, and simply to allow the musicians to provide a better performance. Its easier to sustain a good performance within smaller chunks of a cue than to try and maintain the intensity and quality of a performance over a longer period of time. Playing even a few minutes of music can be daunting at times, depending on the piece. One of my favorite band pieces is Esprit De Corps by Robert Jager. Its fun as hell to play, and incredibly complicated. By the end of that piece, which is only about 5 minutes long, you're out of breath. Its awesome, but not practical when recording a film score. That's not to say it can't be done, or that the musicians can't handle it. Far from it. It just makes things easier.

There's also the added advantage of having separate pieces of music to reassemble into a different sequence. As terrible as the re-cutting of the SW prequel scores sounds, its very likely that many of those individual sections were indeed recorded separately. It all comes down to the needs of the Composer, Conductor, Orchestra, and Director, and what gives them the most options when editing the score.

It's a misconception that the structure of cues has anything to do with performance considerations. The cues are done depending on when locked picture is given to a composer to work on and the reason they are usually kept to a manageable length is so that the composer can let the orchestrator, copyists, and music editor get going while he continues to work. Quite often the copyists are preparing the individual parts for cues just a day before they're recorded, and scheduling would become a problem if sessions had to wait for long cues to be composed, orchestrated, and copied. Performance is not really much of a concern in film scoring because multiple takes are done and mistakes can be fixed by editing and recording pickups, but it's true that avoiding exceedingly long single cues does keep mistakes to a minimum.

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Man, you guys are hard to please. If the expanded Temple OST was presented EXACTLY as heard in the film, with cues only divided by silence in the film itself, this is what the track list would have looked like:

1. Anything Goes

2. Fast Streets of Shanghai **

3. Slalom on Mt. Humol**

4. Short Round's Theme

5. Scroll - To Pankot Palace *

6. Nocturnal Activities

7. Bug Tunnel - Death Trap

8. The Temple of Doom

9. Approaching the Stones*

10. Children in Chains

11. Short Round Escapes

12. Slave Children's Crusade **

13. Mine Cart Chase

14. Finale - End Credits **

A little ridiculous, don't you think? I'd hate to have been around for the announcement of THAT track release without track times on this board. :)

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Anyone know why the fanfare in "Water!" in the film which plays over the wide shot of Indy/Willie/Shorty escaping the tunnel onto the cliff isn't included in the set? :)

I know, nothing major, just curious if it's tracked or something.

It's an insert that was recorded separately.

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I tought it was to minimize performance mistakes. So a musician can't screw up a take in the last minute of a 15 minute piece.

I was also under the impression that the limit was in place to "protect" the performers from having their excellent sight reading skills exploited, by rattling through cue after cue.

Seems silly to me, but there are lots of MU regulations that don't make a lot of sense

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Original music that was meant to overlay Indy's encounter with Hitler. It also underscored some deleted footage at the blimp terminal.

You can line up the first 30 secs or so of the cue from the moment Indy/Henry are bombarded by the crowd of Hitler supporters, right up until the establishing shot of Berlin terminal. It's quite nice, but the film version works better for me.

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Original music that was meant to overlay Indy's encounter with Hitler. It also underscored some deleted footage at the blimp terminal.

You can line up the first 30 secs or so of the cue from the moment Indy/Henry are bombarded by the crowd of Hitler supporters, right up until the establishing shot of Berlin terminal. It's quite nice, but the film version works better for me.

Ahhh, thanks!!

Is the ominous music from 0:31-0:40 Hitler's motif?

BTW, I love this track!! So atmospheric, somehow... from the melancholic trumpet solo at 0:50 to the powerful statement of the Nazis at 1:45. Like vintage music from a period piece.

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Sometimes I seriously think I'm the only, lonely, depressed sod out there in this world who doesn't have a single complaint about this thing, doesn't think about cutting and pasting from crappy sources or pitch-correcting by a quartertone, and just enjoys it.

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Not at all Mr McButterpants. I personally love this set and haven't made a single change to any music, aside from resequencing the tracks on Disc 5 into their respective film albums. And even then I have not burnt resequenced albums, but rather am listening to the CDs from the box-set as a sign of good faith.

I love everything about this set, from the packaging to the track names to the music, I am so very grateful to Mr Bouzerou for finally making this music available. And I've got to say I think Temple of Doom is my new favourite Williams score, taking the crown from The Empire Strikes Back. Seriously, the choral part in "Broken Bridge/British Relief" is more amazing than the "Luke vs Vader" cue from Return of the Jedi. Simply stunning music all 'round.

So no, FMcB, you're not the only one.

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Man, you guys are hard to please. If the expanded Temple OST was presented EXACTLY as heard in the film, with cues only divided by silence in the film itself, this is what the track list would have looked like:

1. Anything Goes

2. Fast Streets of Shanghai **

3. Slalom on Mt. Humol**

4. Short Round's Theme

5. Scroll - To Pankot Palace *

6. Nocturnal Activities

7. Bug Tunnel - Death Trap

8. The Temple of Doom

9. Approaching the Stones*

10. Children in Chains

11. Short Round Escapes

12. Slave Children's Crusade **

13. Mine Cart Chase

14. Finale - End Credits **

A little ridiculous, don't you think? I'd hate to have been around for the announcement of THAT track release without track times on this board. :)

You got it wrong. Just re-read the SW Ses tracklists. It would have been like this:

1. Anything Goes

2. Shanghai 1935 (Deal for the Diamond*/Nigthclub brawl*/Fast Streets of Shanghai)

3. Over the Himalaya (Map*/Out of Fuel*/Slalom on Mt. Humol

4. Short Round's Theme

5. Scroll*/To Pankot Palace*

6. Nocturnal Activities

7. Bug Tunnel/Death Trap

8. The Temple of Doom

9. Approaching the Stones*

10. Children in Chains

11. Short Round Escapes*

12. Underground Heroics (Saving Willie*/Slave Children's Crusade/Short Round Helps*)

13. Mine Cart Chase

14. Water!

15. The Bridge Battle*/Return to the Village*/End Credits**

The only tricky part to name is track 15.

Original music that was meant to overlay Indy's encounter with Hitler. It also underscored some deleted footage at the blimp terminal.

You can line up the first 30 secs or so of the cue from the moment Indy/Henry are bombarded by the crowd of Hitler supporters, right up until the establishing shot of Berlin terminal. It's quite nice, but the film version works better for me.

Ahhh, thanks!!

Is the ominous music from 0:31-0:40 Hitler's motif?

BTW, I love this track!! So atmospheric, somehow... from the melancholic trumpet solo at 0:50 to the powerful statement of the Nazis at 1:45. Like vintage music from a period piece.

I think that the love theme-ish' material that starts the cue is for the part when indy releases elsa and goes (just before the crowd thing)

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Finally got my set last week and have given it a few good listens. Even with it's "quirks", I'm loving it. ToD is, for me, the jewel of the bunch. So much great stuff there. It was a great climax for Williams' incredible 1975-1984 period. LC was more familiar to me due to the bootleg, but it's great to really hear the orchestra now.

Considering the small market for soundtracks on CD and the fact that Lucasfilm was working with a smallish jazz label releasing this, it seems a surprise to me that this has seen the light of day at all, and something of a miracle that so much about the set was done right. I'm also glad my hearing isn't so acute that slght variances in pitch don't bother me, or that I'm not so picky that I can really enjoy what's there rather than moaning about what's missing.

Maybe if this sells well enough, Concord could work with Warner on a Harry Potter: The Early Years Collection, with expanded versions of the first three scores.

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I tought it was to minimize performance mistakes. So a musician can't screw up a take in the last minute of a 15 minute piece.

That's one of the reasons, but there are plenty more. The main advantages are greater control over the performance and resulting recording, the ability to make corrections to a smaller section of music rather than re-recording an entire cue, and simply to allow the musicians to provide a better performance. Its easier to sustain a good performance within smaller chunks of a cue than to try and maintain the intensity and quality of a performance over a longer period of time. Playing even a few minutes of music can be daunting at times, depending on the piece. One of my favorite band pieces is Esprit De Corps by Robert Jager. Its fun as hell to play, and incredibly complicated. By the end of that piece, which is only about 5 minutes long, you're out of breath. Its awesome, but not practical when recording a film score. That's not to say it can't be done, or that the musicians can't handle it. Far from it. It just makes things easier.

There's also the added advantage of having separate pieces of music to reassemble into a different sequence. As terrible as the re-cutting of the SW prequel scores sounds, its very likely that many of those individual sections were indeed recorded separately. It all comes down to the needs of the Composer, Conductor, Orchestra, and Director, and what gives them the most options when editing the score.

It's a misconception that the structure of cues has anything to do with performance considerations. The cues are done depending on when locked picture is given to a composer to work on and the reason they are usually kept to a manageable length is so that the composer can let the orchestrator, copyists, and music editor get going while he continues to work. Quite often the copyists are preparing the individual parts for cues just a day before they're recorded, and scheduling would become a problem if sessions had to wait for long cues to be composed, orchestrated, and copied. Performance is not really much of a concern in film scoring because multiple takes are done and mistakes can be fixed by editing and recording pickups, but it's true that avoiding exceedingly long single cues does keep mistakes to a minimum.

I meant to say that! :)

But I was referring to the practice of recording, say, a 32 bar phrase within a single cue, as opposed to a single section of music composed during the previous day to keep on schedule. Even recording a rewritten 1 minute cue, its is possible that the composer/conductor might decide to cut at bar 8 or 24 or 32, or at the end of some other phrase, where perhaps a note is sustained, and begin at that point for the next section. Hence the fact that some cues that are edited together in the film (and were intended to be combined) have clean endings. Obviously this isn't done EVERY time, as it would be impractical to keep stopping and starting every phrase, but it is another method, and there are of course a number of reasons why they might choose to record a single phrase separately, when it isn't necessarily going to be heard (or even intended to be heard) that way. It all comes down to giving everyone the most control over the music when recording to picture, and editing to picture.

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