The "what Does That Theme Represent/ "where Does That Cue Go In The Film Go?"/ "is That Cue Even In The Film?" Thread

[Williamsfan301 11]

No, we would barely be able to do anything without education systems.

Now, before we tear each others' lungs out, I would like to make another offer of apology. Do you accept?

Yes

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Apology accepted. Next subject: where is "Viktor and His Friends" play in the film "The Terminal"? Is that one scene with them playing sort of card game?

[Delorean90 42]

"Viktor and His Friends" comes after "Gupta's Deliverance."

"Eye to Eye" covers the sequence begining with Ellie and Muldoon's decision to go to the power shed. It ends with the sequence after Muldoon tells her to run to the shed.

I thought "Eye to Eye" was the unused cue for the part of the tour where they approach the Tyrannosaur paddock, but she's not there.

The sequence where Muldoon encounters a Raptor is actually the last part of "The Raptor Attack" cue. The first half covers the beginning of the kitchen sequence.

Really? I thought that last part was just tracked in from "The Raptor Attack."

[Ollie 1,059]

"Viktor and His Friends" comes after "Gupta's Deliverance."

"Eye to Eye" covers the sequence begining with Ellie and Muldoon's decision to go to the power shed. It ends with the sequence after Muldoon tells her to run to the shed.

I thought "Eye to Eye" was the unused cue for the part of the tour where they approach the Tyrannosaur paddock, but she's not there.

The sequence where Muldoon encounters a Raptor is actually the last part of "The Raptor Attack" cue. The first half covers the beginning of the kitchen sequence.

Really? I thought that last part was just tracked in from "The Raptor Attack."

It's possible the 1st 3 minutes of "Eye To Eye"may represent that scene but the rest of the cue covers the scene I described.

I forgot how short the Raptor cue was. I do know the last 30 seconds cover Muldoon's fate.

[Delorean90 42]

Oh, duh! I forgot that "Eye to Eye" was one of the combined tracks.

I'll have to recheck "The Raptor Attack," then. I always thought that the film version of "Clever Girl" just tracked in the ending of "The Raptor Attack."

[indy4 155]

Whoa...people, calm down, I sensed nothing hostile or condescending in Nick's posts.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

You can calm down, as well, indy4. We have "kissed and made up", if that was the phrase to use (surely there must be another, though, yes?).

[indy4 155]

Alright then, I'm sorry to have brought it up again.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

The wounds have been reopened and closed again, never to return.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

This is why we need the complete cue lists section back up, dammit!

[Jay 37,352]

where is "Viktor and His Friends" play in the film "The Terminal"? Is that one scene with them playing sort of card game?

http://www.jwfan.com/index.php?option=com_...view&id=814

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Thank you, Jason. I had no idea how mangled the album was.

[Wojo 2,453]

We have "kissed and made up", if that was the phrase to use (surely there must be another, though, yes?).

"Buried the hatchet" would be a better phrase.

[John Crichton 4]

This is why we need the complete cue lists section back up, dammit!

You would think the moderator would be able to do something about that!

[Jay 37,352]

Yes; Where did those go and why aren't they back? I wrote some of those...

[John Crichton 4]

They were lost when the board/main page software had its last major upgrade. You'll notice the Filmography section only works for Williams' most recent scores.

[Jay 37,352]

Right, but what technical reasons prevent them from returning. If Ricard just needs someone to change some HTML around, I can do that...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

We have "kissed and made up", if that was the phrase to use (surely there must be another, though, yes?).

"Buried the hatchet" would be a better phrase.

Duly noted.

[Williamsfan301 11]

You can calm down, as well, indy4. We have "kissed and made up", if that was the phrase to use (surely there must be another, though, yes?).

No tongues...

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Thank you, Jason. I had no idea how mangled the album was.

Indeed. I think it's one of Williams' most atrocious albums personally. Misnamed cues, repeated material, and still enough room to put on the whole score if Williams had just let someone else do it. Up there with PoA's collossal waste of space known as Mischief Managed.

I think this is an excellent thread, particularly with Williams albums.

Up until recently I had no idea what the cue 'Death of the Messenger From God' from the LC boot was scoring - then I saw the respective track on Concord.

[Delorean90 42]

I don't think the next to last track is misnamed, though.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I completely agree. "'Destiny'...'Canneloni'... and the Tale of Viktor Navorski Reprise' is undoubtedly my favorite track title of all time.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

This is why we need the complete cue lists section back up, dammit!

http://web.archive.org/web/20050308131517/...es&secid=17

[Delorean90 42]

I completely agree. "'Destiny'...'Canneloni'... and the Tale of Viktor Navorski Reprise' is undoubtedly my favorite track title of all time.

Yeah, but particularly I mean mislabeled as in just flat incorrect. I really think the title simply the reflects the scene it was originally written for: the original finale.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh, I know, I was just having a bit of fun. I would love to hear someone request that piece at a John Williams concert.

[tjguitar 0]

This is why we need the complete cue lists section back up, dammit!

http://web.archive.org/web/20050308131517/...es&secid=17

Are they all archived? I see the first one Jurassic Park works. Surprised noone did any for Empire Strikes Back or SW

[Desplat13 1]

What is the theme found in the Quantum of Solace score on the track "Pursuit At Port Au Prince" at 5:20? I am not very familiar with the Bond scores, but it sounds like a John Barry theme.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It's no particular theme. Just some sweeping strings to accompany an establishing of a new location in the film.

[Desplat13 1]

That's odd. I thought I heard it earlier in the brass at an action moment. Not sure where, though.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What is this awesome "theme" I'm hearing 17 seconds into "Grievous And The Droids"? I don't think this was even used in the film, but it's great. Does Williams just pull this out of nowhere to never be heard again, or was this intended for Grievous?

[indy4 155]

Perhaps it's the theme for that setpiece.

[Datameister 2,042]

Not a theme at all...just a minor-key brass fanfare written for that particular moment. =) (Which corresponds to the exterior shot of the bridge of Grievous' ship, just before Anakin and Obi-Wan are brought in to meet him, but that part of the cue wasn't used in the film.)

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Nearing the end of "Main Titles and Mountain Visions" (and "Resolution and End Title"), there is an (awesome, if I may say so) four-note motiv played on the brass, and I believe it gets some variations in "I Can't Believe It's Real" as well. What does this motiv represent?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I watch "Braveheart" for the oddly hilarious deaths in it.

A long overdue

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Nearing the end of "Main Titles and Mountain Visions" (and "Resolution and End Title"), there is an (awesome, if I may say so) four-note motiv played on the brass, and I believe it gets some variations in "I Can't Believe It's Real" as well. What does this motiv represent?

Does anyone know?

Also, is the first Track "Minority Report" serve as an overture of sorts for the score? I seem to hear a motiv found in "Spyders" (what I presume to be the motiv for the mechanical things), as well as other things.

[Incanus 5,714]

Yes the eponymous first track of Minority Report is what I think should be the End Credits of the film which features some of the major thematic and motivic ideas of the score: the Pre-Crime motif, Spyders motif and some of the murderous swirling string music underscoring the killings in the film and a horn solo of Sean's theme finally leads to the A New Beginning theme which is a sort of elaboration on Sean's music that has taken a hopeful turn forms the ending of the piece.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

It is also a good summation of Anderton's story and how the music evolves with it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I always assumed that track was an edit of several tracks.

Was i wrong?

What is this awesome "theme" I'm hearing 17 seconds into "Grievous And The Droids"? I don't think this was even used in the film, but it's great. Does Williams just pull this out of nowhere to never be heard again, or was this intended for Grievous?

Mmmm awesome? I'm almost glad its not used in the movie is it screams Harry Potter too much.

[Incanus 5,714]

It is also a good summation of Anderton's story and how the music evolves with it.

Agreed. A sort of musical miniature of the whole film in just 6½ minutes.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

the great escape is missing though.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Well I know it's not there, but I don't miss it.

[Incanus 5,714]

Well if Minority Report track is just an edit job the Great Escape would have been somewhat difficult to summarize and add in the running time of the 6½ minute End Credit piece. And of course it is not exactly a setpiece by setpiece description of the score as such but End Credit length summary of the themes.

And the score is full of these independent musical moments with only a handful of smaller motifs to keep the cohesion. Anderton's Great Escape is the main set piece. JW could have picked any one of them for the suite. He just chose the Pre-Crime motif, Spyders and Sean's theme.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Thanks, Incanus and Elmo. Sorry to pester with another question, but there is a (rather delightful, in my opinion) string arpeggio that constitutes the majority of the two Tracks "Abandoned In the Woods" and "Where Dreams Are Born". Is that arpeggio a recurring motiv, or is it one of those "Reprise" situations that are common in John Williams' albums?

[Incanus 5,714]

The Abandoned in the Woods theme is actually The Abandonment/Martin's Theme of which the track is just the most elaborate variation. This theme can be heard in the film several times before this grand version of it and it is a lot more subtle prior to that. It represents the boy of the Swinton family and his malice towards David and finally the abandonment in the woods which is caused by Martin's continous attempts to oust the Mecha from the family. Sadly on the album you can't hear this development at all.

Track 10 of the OST Rouge City is where Williams made a strange hybrid by combining a sort of reprise of the Abandoned in the Woods and the Rouge City on the soundtrack album which repeats the theme unnecessarily and offers the hacked up Rouge City music which should include the Rosenkavalier quote by Richard Strauss. For reasons unknown Williams cut the quote of the classical piece off and the edit on the OST sounds pretty clumsy once you have heard the film version which is available only on the Oscar Promo.

And as far as I know Where Dreams Are Born bears no relation to this theme but is based solely on Monica's theme.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I have the One Disk Oscar Promo (which excludes the two songs that are apparently on the commercial album), so I am not sure if the Track listing is any different, but "Where Dreams Are Born" is Track 9, is it not? And is this "Abandonment Theme" found at approximately 0:07-0:33 during "Abandoned in the Woods"?

You know, I think I might try to track down that Two-Disk Promo sometime....

[Incanus 5,714]

I have the One Disk Oscar Promo (which excludes the two songs that are apparently on the commercial album), so I am not sure if the Track listing is any different, but "Where Dreams Are Born" is Track 9, is it not? And is this "Abandonment Theme" found at approximately 0:07-0:33 during "Abandoned in the Woods"?

You know, I think I might try to track down that Two-Disk Promo sometime....

Yes the Abandonment/Martin theme can be heard approximately in those time stamps you mention.

Where Dreams Are Born is track 9 on the OST whereas it is track 8 on the 1 disc Promo.

And I have to say I am only vaguely aware that there is even a 1 disc Oscar Promo. If you like this score then the 2 disc version is worth getting for a much more rounded experience of this wonderful music.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Ah, okay. Thanks, Incanus!

[Ollie 1,059]

Nearing the end of "Main Titles and Mountain Visions" (and "Resolution and End Title"), there is an (awesome, if I may say so) four-note motiv played on the brass, and I believe it gets some variations in "I Can't Believe It's Real" as well. What does this motiv represent?

Could you provide times?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Sure.

Main Titles and Mountain Visions - The four-note motiv basically plays 2:00-2:56

I Can't Believe It's Real - The motiv gets some sly variations at various times approximately 0:23-1:13, primarily if not solely on the woodwinds

Resolution and End Title - 5:28-5:52, approximately

I have not found it in other Tracks, but I have not really looked for it, either.

[Corellian2019 386]

Does anyone know which music cue is playing on Disc 2's main menu of the Star Wars Episode I DVD? Thanks