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Indiana Jones trilogy - Cue Titles and fan-made recordings


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There’s still quite a few titles missing from that list. I believe this should be complete:   Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008) Cue List Composed by John Wi

Spielberg seems to really be against deleted scenes (except for a few occasions) and commentary tracks for whatever reason. I wonder what kinds of things we'll get... in the future

Not like we needed any more evidence about the ownership of these scores, but even the unreleased and unused inserts have reverted to Disney Music now:   I never realised Room In Flame

I feel like I solved the 2m2 mystery pretty good...

2m2 is on the Concord

2m2 Insert 1 and 2m2 Insert have never been heard, but they are only 2 bars each

2m2a and 2m2b can be heard in the film, and 2m2 revised can be heard in the film and lego game

I would not be so sure...

I think we found something, sir.

Matteo

CLUE - At least one insert has always been there, smiling at us.

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So for those of you with the sheet music and access to some high quality sample libraries, can you transcribe the notes into a music program like Digital Performer and create mock-up versions of these unreleased cues? Theoretically it should work, right? It sounds like Colin is already thinking about it. :lol:

It would be a lot of hard work, but you'd put your stamp on Indiana Jones music history and the the rest of us fans will forever be grateful...

Oh, I am thinking about it. Thinking very seriously...

I'm actually doing this as we speak. Is it OK to post the result here?

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So for those of you with the sheet music and access to some high quality sample libraries, can you transcribe the notes into a music program like Digital Performer and create mock-up versions of these unreleased cues? Theoretically it should work, right? It sounds like Colin is already thinking about it. :lol:

It would be a lot of hard work, but you'd put your stamp on Indiana Jones music history and the the rest of us fans will forever be grateful...

Oh, I am thinking about it. Thinking very seriously...

I'm actually doing this as we speak. Is it OK to post the result here?

Ricard and I are planning on making midi mockups available on www.indianajonesmusic.com, so I can't imagine there'd be a problem with posting links to them in the forums

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BTW, John Takis confirmed for me that the Lego file contains the entire 3m1 original version. What amazing luck we had that they put that in the lego game!

they probably put it there on purpose for us score geeks knowing it wouldn't be on the box set :lol:

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So the only cues we need midi mockups for are:

  1. 1m4 A Tribute To Vernon
  2. 2m3 Down The Snowbank (original intro)
  3. 2m3b Snowbank Sweetener
  4. 3m2 The Child Returns (original beginning)
  5. 5m1 Entrance Of The Boy King
  6. 5m2b Exchange Of Glances
  7. 9m2 Willy In The Fryer

right?

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So for those of you with the sheet music and access to some high quality sample libraries, can you transcribe the notes into a music program like Digital Performer and create mock-up versions of these unreleased cues? Theoretically it should work, right? It sounds like Colin is already thinking about it. :lol:

It would be a lot of hard work, but you'd put your stamp on Indiana Jones music history and the the rest of us fans will forever be grateful...

Oh, I am thinking about it. Thinking very seriously...

I'm actually doing this as we speak. Is it OK to post the result here?

Ricard and I are planning on making midi mockups available on www.indianajonesmusic.com, so I can't imagine there'd be a problem with posting links to them in the forums

I'm actually wondering if it's possible to post an MP3 here...don't want to go against "protocol."

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OK I just tinkered around and made a quick little "demo" of "Entrance of the Boy King." I didn't spend any great deal of time doing a lot of "post-production" on this, so it's pretty bland. It may not fit well into your iTunes playlist of the Soundtrack, but oh well.

I also had to guess on the tempo. The whole cue is 10 measures long, which is the same length as the spot in 5m1 ("The Emperor's Entrance") where that young'un comes in the door. Those 10 measures of 5m1 lasts about 14 seconds in the movie....my version of this is about 18, but any faster makes it sound a little frantic, which I don't think is appropriate. Since it wasn't used, I guess worrying about the tempo is just splitting hairs?

I'm also attaching the midi file....I'm definitely not an expert on creating midi files, so I hope it works OK for you. There are a number of sounds (muted horn) that don't always translate well into general midi, but please feel free to do what you will with these.

Hmm...

I get this when I try to attach the Midi file:

"Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload this type of file"

Any words of wisdom to try this again? I'm a Mac user using a PC with a ferocious firewall, so I'll try again when I get home shortly. :lol:

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How about the unused 2m2 inserts?
I feel like I solved the 2m2 mystery pretty good...

2m2 is on the Concord

2m2 Insert 1 and 2m2 Insert have never been heard, but they are only 2 bars each

2m2a and 2m2b can be heard in the film, and 2m2 revised can be heard in the film and lego game

Here at last is an almost complete explanation to the "2M2 mystery" (it's 1 o'clock AM in Italy, so the few missing details are arriving tomorrow).

It seems that the 2-bar inserts were incorporated into the original cue BEFORE the recording. Thus, "Map/Out of Fuel" on the Concord set is 2M2 with some bars already been altered. You can hear the two inserts at 0.27-0.34 (yes, it's the new intro to the love theme: it starts at the first downbeat after the end of the Raiders March quote and ends at the last note before the love theme quote) and at 2.25-2.29 (the higher string rendition of the Raiders March; the lower is in the original version).

2M2A is "Over the Himalayas (Revised Section 2)" in Jason's ToD editing package, from 0.05 to 0.09. It replaces 1.11-1.15 in the original version (Concord timing), between the string tension and the woodwinds notes.

2M2B is not in Jason's package (I don't know if he has already updated it, I don't have it in my folder), and I have not checked yet whether it's in the film or not (I think so, though). It deletes completely the Raiders March string rendition, and replaces 2.23-2.33 (Concord timing), starting at the end of the horn quick notes; the brass bass note signals the return to the original cue. I'm also not sure that this insert has the same length of the deleted section (I think it's shorter, but I'll check soon). Thus 2M2B replaces both the second 2M2 insert and a pair of the original bars surrounding it.

2M2 Rev., "Map extension" is the Lego file. Or, at least, the second half of the Lego file (the extended love theme), as the first part is just cut-and-pasted from the original cue. For those who have the music sheet, "Map extension (2)" could be just how the first two pages looked like before the cut-and-paste job.

Oh, and other few notes, for musicians. I noticed some particular tempo tricks in the inserts. The first insert replaces two 4/4 bars with a 2/4 bar + a 3/4 one + a 2/4 one + one final beat. The second insert, on the other hand, replaces three 3/4 bars with two 4/4 bars + a 3/4 one. The only purpose of this second insert, it seems, was to stretch the fourth note of the March string quote.

That's all folks, for today.

Matteo

P.S. - Next target: the Thuggee ceremony...

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airmanjerm, thanks for the mp3! The attachment worked great!

Matteo, awesome stuff. I had originally suspected that the first 2 inserts where recorded with the original cue all along, but was never sure. Also, it seems that in the final film, the 2m2b insert was dialed out and just replaced with sound effects anyway. d'oh!

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3m2a Alternate Beginning is used, and segues into the original at 22 seconds in the track, just when the sitar begins the melody again, with the changes. It looks to me like we are missing something like 27 - 31 seconds of the original cue.

Forgive me this one, but I couldn't resist after reading "Out of Fuel".

The alternate opening actually ends at about 0.16 in the track. That "shoot" of brass notes is not included in the alternate. It's impossible, though, to create a MIDI version of the original opening, because unluckily we lack the first page of the partition (the "first page" is marked as page 2, and the "first bar" as bar 5, right the bar that should follow the alternate beginning according to its sheet and to the released track).

Oh, and I have really NO idea about where the Sweetener had to go.

And this is the real last one for today.

Matteo

P.S.: It seems we lack the penultimate page of "Out of Fuel", as well.

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airmanjerm, thanks for the mp3! The attachment worked great!

Thanks Jason. Hey, any suggestions on attaching the Midi file? Or are those not allowed for some reason?

If you just put it up on megaupload, that would work fine. If I could use that instead of having to copy it all in myself that would save me a ton of time when I get a chance to work on this.

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airmanjerm, thanks for the mp3! The attachment worked great!

Thanks Jason. Hey, any suggestions on attaching the Midi file? Or are those not allowed for some reason?

If you just put it up on megaupload, that would work fine. If I could use that instead of having to copy it all in myself that would save me a ton of time when I get a chance to work on this.

I'll do that shortly...currently starting on my wife's list of chores. (haha)

Also, do you use finale Colin? I could just send you the Finale file for the cue.

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airmanjerm, thanks for the mp3! The attachment worked great!

Thanks Jason. Hey, any suggestions on attaching the Midi file? Or are those not allowed for some reason?

If you just put it up on megaupload, that would work fine. If I could use that instead of having to copy it all in myself that would save me a ton of time when I get a chance to work on this.

I'll do that shortly...currently starting on my wife's list of chores. (haha)

Also, do you use finale Colin? I could just send you the Finale file for the cue.

I use Finale for studying the scores, but I do the mock-up in Logic Pro, so I would love the Finale file as well as the midi file. Of course, either one I get I can make the other one out of. :unsure:

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3m2a Alternate Beginning is used, and segues into the original at 22 seconds in the track, just when the sitar begins the melody again, with the changes. It looks to me like we are missing something like 27 - 31 seconds of the original cue.

Forgive me this one, but I couldn't resist after reading "Out of Fuel".

The alternate opening actually ends at about 0.16 in the track. That "shoot" of brass notes is not included in the alternate. It's impossible, though, to create a MIDI version of the original opening, because unluckily we lack the first page of the partition (the "first page" is marked as page 2, and the "first bar" as bar 5, right the bar that should follow the alternate beginning according to its sheet and to the released track).

Oh, and I have really NO idea about where the Sweetener had to go.

And this is the real last one for today.

Matteo

P.S.: It seems we lack the penultimate page of "Out of Fuel", as well.

He was talking about the alternate beginning to 3m2, you're talking about the new intro to 2m3.

As far as that goes, you're right page 1 with bars 1-4 is simply not there, and they re-wrote the title on page 2 starting with bar 5. They probably never recorded the original 4bar opening to Down The Snowbank then, and just threw away that first page and recorded the New Intro along with the rest of the cue all at once

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Here's a link to download the Midi file of "Entrance of the Boy King:"

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=10DM490O

Please note that I am not a midi-file-creation expert. I deal with midi files on a very limited basis...most of what I do day-to-day is composition and arranging...so if things seem a bit odd to any of you midi-file-o-maniacs out there, my apologies.

What I do know, however, is Finale, and here is a link where you can download the Finale file (in Finale 2009 format) which I created to make this midi (and the previously attached MP3 file):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=G7P3SH6W

Please note for this one that many of the dynamics, etc. are different from the original score...this is just to help Finale balance the different sounds that I use. (I use MOTU's Symphonic Instruments, which you can hear in the MP3. They're not the best things on the market, but they are fine for what I do.) It's also not meant to "look pretty," so don't expect to send this one right on off to the printer.

Perhaps I can do another of these un-recorded cues soon.

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He was talking about the alternate beginning to 3m2, you're talking about the new intro to 2m3.

:flameblob: You're right... Well, that is what happens while working at 1.30 AM... :unsure:

BTW, analysis of the first sacrifice ceremony is on the way...

Matteo

Well, here we are.

4. What is the timestamp (either from the film or the file in my editing package) on when 7m1 Sanskrit Sacrifice ends and 7m2 More Sacrifice begins?

The answer to this question is more complicated than what you think, because the cues were so butchered in the film that there is no "clean" ending to 7M1 and no "clean" opening for 7M2 (actually, the opening of "More Sacrifice" isn't even used).

Here is a breakdown of the track "First Ceremony ('Sanskrit Ceremony' Film Edit 1)" from Jason's editing package. All the timings refer to Jason's file. It's very approximate breakdown, though, due to the tinkering in the film version, the lack of page 7 in the 7M1 sheet, and last but not least JW's REALLY bad writing... :D

  • start-0.13: 6M3 "The Walls Come Down" closing bars, mixed with percussions from 7M1 (3.14-3.20).
  • 0.13-0.21: LOOP. Taken from 7M1, heard at 0.27-0.35.
  • 0.22-0.49: 7M1 bars 1-10.
  • 7M1 bars 11-14 are cut, though they can be heard in their entirety at 5.11-5.21.
  • 0.49-1.14: 7M1 bars 15-24 + first half of bar 25.
  • 1.14-1.57: 7M1 bars, following bar 27 (we deal with the missing page here).
  • 1.57-3.02: LOOP. Taken from the beginning of 7M1, while the first percussion strike is heard at 3.20.
  • 3.02-3.20: this passage seems to be on the missing page.
  • 3.20-4.44: 7M1 bars 37-85, but there may be some edits (I really wasn't able to follow the cue sheet). Here is where 7M1 should end.
  • 4.44-4.52: sound effects.
  • 4.52-5.30: LOOP. Taken from 7M1 bars 3-14, mixed with what heard at 3.02-3.13.
  • 5.30-5.33: LOOP. 7M1, heard at 4.04-4.07 (or subsequent repetitions), overlaps 7M2 bars 29-30 (7M2 is recognizable by the bell strokes after the choir phrases).
  • 5.33-6.34: 7M2 bars 31-47 (this is how 7M2 ends).
  • 6.34-7.07: LOOP. Taken from 7M2, heard at 5.41-6.17.
  • 7.07-end: 7M3 "Approaching the Stones" opening bars.

Well, I'm sure what posted above is incomplete and full of mistakes, so if someone wants to check by himself, he's welcome! :lol:

Is 9m1x identical to the album track "The Temple Of Doom"?

I'm not sure about this, I've not checked 9M1X yet, but I think that 7M1 is VERY similar to the album track, though the latter lacks some sections and has those ghostly-like synthesizers added (which are not in 7M1).

Matteo

EDIT - I completely forgot about the 61-bar "Sacrifice Sweetener"... Maybe some unknown elements from the analysis will find an explanation there.

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Well, here we are.
4. What is the timestamp (either from the film or the file in my editing package) on when 7m1 Sanskrit Sacrifice ends and 7m2 More Sacrifice begins?

The answer to this question is more complicated than what you think, because the cues were so butchered in the film that there is no "clean" ending to 7M1 and no "clean" opening for 7M2 (actually, the opening of "More Sacrifice" isn't even used).

Here is a breakdown of the track "First Ceremony ('Sanskrit Ceremony' Film Edit 1)" from Jason's editing package. All the timings refer to Jason's file. It's very approximate breakdown, though, due to the tinkering in the film version, the lack of page 7 in the 7M1 sheet, and last but not least JW's REALLY bad writing... ;)

  • start-0.13: 6M3 "The Walls Come Down" closing bars, mixed with percussions from 7M1 (3.14-3.20).
  • 0.13-0.21: LOOP. Taken from 7M1, heard at 0.27-0.35.
  • 0.22-0.49: 7M1 bars 1-10.
  • 7M1 bars 11-14 are cut, though they can be heard in their entirety at 5.11-5.21.
  • 0.49-1.14: 7M1 bars 15-24 + first half of bar 25.
  • 1.14-1.57: 7M1 bars, following bar 27 (we deal with the missing page here).
  • 1.57-3.02: LOOP. Taken from the beginning of 7M1, while the first percussion strike is heard at 3.20.
  • 3.02-3.20: this passage seems to be on the missing page.
  • 3.20-4.44: 7M1 bars 37-85, but there may be some edits (I really wasn't able to follow the cue sheet). Here is where 7M1 should end.
  • 4.44-4.52: sound effects.
  • 4.52-5.30: LOOP. Taken from 7M1 bars 3-14, mixed with what heard at 3.02-3.13.
  • 5.30-5.33: LOOP. 7M1, heard at 4.04-4.07 (or subsequent repetitions), overlaps 7M2 bars 29-30 (7M2 is recognizable by the bell strokes after the choir phrases).
  • 5.33-6.34: 7M2 bars 31-47 (this is how 7M2 ends).
  • 6.34-7.07: LOOP. Taken from 7M2, heard at 5.41-6.17.
  • 7.07-end: 7M3 "Approaching the Stones" opening bars.

Well, I'm sure what posted above is incomplete and full of mistakes, so if someone wants to check by himself, he's welcome! :beerchug:

Good work! I just got the sheets and I'm checking everything.

So it seems that the actual "Sanskrit Sacrifice", which runs for 7 minutes in the movie, is actually about 5 minutes, which roughly 2 minutes looped.

Also, 7m1 is pretty much similar to the album track (and the second sanscrit ceremony), while 7m2 is the quiet version of the chant basically (heard at the end of the first sacrifice (5:33-end))

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Oh, well, some other notes and correction and then I'll pass these Sanskrit cues to somebody else. I'm quite fed up about them... I want to check something else.

  • 3.02-3.20: this passage seems to be on the missing page.
  • 3.20-4.44: 7M1 bars 37-85, but there may be some edits (I really wasn't able to follow the cue sheet). Here is where 7M1 should end.
  • 4.44-4.52: sound effects.
  • 4.52-5.30: LOOP. Taken from 7M1 bars 3-14, mixed with what heard at 3.02-3.13.

Some corrections:

  • 3.02-3.20: 7M1A “Sacrifice Sweetener” bars 13-17. I do think that the percussion we hear under the choir are “Percussion Sweetener – One”.
  • 3.20-4.44: 7M1 bars 37-85, but there may be some edits (I really wasn't able to follow the cue sheet). Includes some sections from 7M1A. Here is where 7M1 should end.
  • 4.44-4.52: sound effects.
  • 4.52-5.30: LOOP. Taken from 7M1 bars 3-14, mixed with 7M1A heard at 3.02-3.13.

Also:

  • The whole second ceremony sequence is tracked from the first. There’s a nice choir glissando (at 7.21 in “A True Believer/The Black Sleep of Kali/Second Ceremony”), but I think it’s tracked from the “Sanskrit Sweetener”.
  • We have already agreed that the third Sanskrit edit is tracked.
  • 7M1A is made up as follows. At the beginning choir and percussions waver with “Ooh”s and “Aah”s, and this part includes the glissando we hear during the second ceremony. Then the choir explodes in what we hear in the first ceremony (3.02-3.20). Then the “GHO-ram SUN-da-rum” chant starts, and here (differently from the main 7M1) there’s some counterpoint between different sentences from the choir (as heard in the film). 7M1A concludes with what I suppose is the ending of the album track “The Temple of Doom” (the ending of the film version SHOULD be the original 7M1 ending).
  • 7M2 presents us what I think is a quieter version of the Sacrifice Sweetener (3.02-3.20 in the file), followed by the “AH-tish RE-ma-ti SHE-gran SHE-gran” chant. After 24 bars the “GHO-ram SUN-da-rum” chant starts as we hear it in the film.
  • 9M1X is made up as follows. After some percussion tingling, the choir starts a canon version (baritones vs. everybody else) of the “AH-tish RE-ma-ti SHE-gran SHE-gran” chant. For the next 9 bars we have some other percussion rattling, and then the choir starts repeating the “GHO-ram GHO-ram GHO-ram SUN-da-rum” chant for 3 times as Willie is lowered in the pit.
  • All in all, the album track "The Temple of Doom" (Concord D2 T13) could be 7M1 with a revised ending (the one from the Sweetener), some ghostly-like synthesizers added at the beginning and in the middle, and a shriek added at the end.

If anyone comes up with a better and simpler explanation, again, he's welcome.

Matteo

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Here's a link to download the Midi file of "Entrance of the Boy King:"

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=10DM490O

Please note that I am not a midi-file-creation expert. I deal with midi files on a very limited basis...most of what I do day-to-day is composition and arranging...so if things seem a bit odd to any of you midi-file-o-maniacs out there, my apologies.

What I do know, however, is Finale, and here is a link where you can download the Finale file (in Finale 2009 format) which I created to make this midi (and the previously attached MP3 file):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=G7P3SH6W

Please note for this one that many of the dynamics, etc. are different from the original score...this is just to help Finale balance the different sounds that I use. (I use MOTU's Symphonic Instruments, which you can hear in the MP3. They're not the best things on the market, but they are fine for what I do.) It's also not meant to "look pretty," so don't expect to send this one right on off to the printer.

Perhaps I can do another of these un-recorded cues soon.

Awesome! I am looking forward to getting a chance to work on these. Thanks!

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Oh, well, some other notes and correction and then I'll pass these Sanskrit cues to somebody else. I'm quite fed up about them... I want to check something else.
  • 3.02-3.20: this passage seems to be on the missing page.
  • 3.20-4.44: 7M1 bars 37-85, but there may be some edits (I really wasn't able to follow the cue sheet). Here is where 7M1 should end.
  • 4.44-4.52: sound effects.
  • 4.52-5.30: LOOP. Taken from 7M1 bars 3-14, mixed with what heard at 3.02-3.13.

Some corrections:

  • 3.02-3.20: 7M1A “Sacrifice Sweetener” bars 13-17. I do think that the percussion we hear under the choir are “Percussion Sweetener – One”.
  • 3.20-4.44: 7M1 bars 37-85, but there may be some edits (I really wasn't able to follow the cue sheet). Includes some sections from 7M1A. Here is where 7M1 should end.
  • 4.44-4.52: sound effects.
  • 4.52-5.30: LOOP. Taken from 7M1 bars 3-14, mixed with 7M1A heard at 3.02-3.13.

Also:

  • The whole second ceremony sequence is tracked from the first. There’s a nice choir glissando (at 7.21 in “A True Believer/The Black Sleep of Kali/Second Ceremony”), but I think it’s tracked from the “Sanskrit Sweetener”.
  • We have already agreed that the third Sanskrit edit is tracked.
  • 7M1A is made up as follows. At the beginning choir and percussions waver with “Ooh”s and “Aah”s, and this part includes the glissando we hear during the second ceremony. Then the choir explodes in what we hear in the first ceremony (3.02-3.20). Then the “GHO-ram SUN-da-rum” chant starts, and here (differently from the main 7M1) there’s some counterpoint between different sentences from the choir (as heard in the film). 7M1A concludes with what I suppose is the ending of the album track “The Temple of Doom” (the ending of the film version SHOULD be the original 7M1 ending).
  • 7M2 presents us what I think is a quieter version of the Sacrifice Sweetener (3.02-3.20 in the file), followed by the “AH-tish RE-ma-ti SHE-gran SHE-gran” chant. After 24 bars the “GHO-ram SUN-da-rum” chant starts as we hear it in the film.
  • 9M1X is made up as follows. After some percussion tingling, the choir starts a canon version (baritones vs. everybody else) of the “AH-tish RE-ma-ti SHE-gran SHE-gran” chant. For the next 9 bars we have some other percussion rattling, and then the choir starts repeating the “GHO-ram GHO-ram GHO-ram SUN-da-rum” chant for 3 times as Willie is lowered in the pit.
  • All in all, the album track "The Temple of Doom" (Concord D2 T13) could be 7M1 with a revised ending (the one from the Sweetener), some ghostly-like synthesizers added at the beginning and in the middle, and a shriek added at the end.

If anyone comes up with a better and simpler explanation, again, he's welcome.

Matteo

Sorry to quote that whole thing, but WOW...I'm starting to think that the reason so much music remains unreleased (or released in some kind of wacky "album-edit") is because there's so many cuts, splices, etc. that even the expanded score we just got is like rebuilding Frankenstein's monster. I'd like to think that all the original takes of all the recorded cues are still around somewhere, but who knows? I know there's tons of stuff like this in the archives at the Skywalker Ranch.

Seeing all this work you guys are doing (which is awesome) makes me think...maybe for the "next" release of TOD they should just send you guys all the recorded takes and you could put it all together... :beerchug:

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Really other than the ceremony music, the rest of Williams' TOD score was almost completely used properly and not hacked up at all

They dropped most of Willy In The Fryer and some bars from Water Music and Mine Cart Chase but its certainly one of the least mucked with Spielberg/Williams collaborations

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Really other than the ceremony music, the rest of Williams' TOD score was almost completely used properly and not hacked up at all

They dropped most of Willy In The Fryer and some bars from Water Music and Mine Cart Chase but its certainly one of the least mucked with Spielberg/Williams collaborations

Sorry Jason, I think what I was actually trying to suggest was more that the score contains so many "alternate beginnings," inserts, sweeteners, etc...some of which were used, some which weren't....that recreating the entire score as it was released would take a huge effort of organization and research...therefore you guys would be good at it, since you've all been working with it all just for fun.

A lot of scores have alternates, inserts, etc, but TOD has a LOT of these...I'm sure it took a lot to wade through all that just to get what we did get. :beerchug:

I'm not saying it is the definite reason that a few things may never see the light of day though...just possibly something that factors in.

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i dont like the finale shriek in temple of doom. Appart from that if i put the volume too high the neighbours may think i'm torturing someone..., it make the cue sound like a SFX dvd rip with 'dialogue'

Neither do I. :beerchug: I remember that I actually used the cue as it was as a musical background for a kind-of "fear tunnel" (I don't know if it's properly translated in English)... I used a dark corridor, some plastic spiders hanging from the ceiling, and that track. A friend of mine played the role of an evil shaman, with his crystal ball seeing the future...

Matteo

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Again, ANOTHER correction.

DEFINITELY 7M1 is present on the album, and it's called "The Temple of Doom" (Concord D2 T13). I re-read the partition but listening to the album track instead of the film rip, and they match completely. The final shriek is even present on the sheet (it's that strange solo soprano glissando from bar 72 to bar 85). The only missing things (which I think were added later) are the synthesizers.

This means that PROBABLY the film ending is either to be found in the "Sacrifice Sweetener", or (more probably) is a sped-up version of 7M1. I'm going to check it later (the fact that I've finally understood how 7M1 works gives me hope!!!).

Matteo

P.S.: the missing page 7, on count of bars, is "The Temple of Doom" from 1.17 to 1.28.

P.S. 2: Oh, and thank you Mr. Williams for providing us timestamps along with all the Sanskrit cues (except for 7M1)!!! Very appreciated!!!

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Well ,The Temple of Doom is the cue I like the least on the c.d.

Don't care if there's 100 alternates of it

Yes, but I think we're doing this for sake of knowledge. Our goal is to understand how John Williams envisioned the ToD score (the so much claimed "how the composer originally wrote the cues" against a TPM UE conception of scores) and then define how much of the music he recorded is available (officially or not). The Sanskrit ceremony is part of the score, so it's part of our work as well.

Who knows, maybe someone will want to edit cues even if they're incompletely available, like we do in the Prequel thread...

Matteo

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Again, ANOTHER correction.

DEFINITELY 7M1 is present on the album, and it's called "The Temple of Doom" (Concord D2 T13). I re-read the partition but listening to the album track instead of the film rip, and they match completely. The final shriek is even present on the sheet (it's that strange solo soprano glissando from bar 72 to bar 85). The only missing things (which I think were added later) are the synthesizers.

This means that PROBABLY the film ending is either to be found in the "Sacrifice Sweetener", or (more probably) is a sped-up version of 7M1. I'm going to check it later (the fact that I've finally understood how 7M1 works gives me hope!!!).

Matteo

P.S.: the missing page 7, on count of bars, is "The Temple of Doom" from 1.17 to 1.28.

P.S. 2: Oh, and thank you Mr. Williams for providing us timestamps along with all the Sanskrit cues (except for 7M1)!!! Very appreciated!!!

Are you saying that "The Temple Of Doom" matches up EXACTLY with 7m1, except for the ending?

Could the synth overdubs be "Sacrifice Sweetener" material?

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Yes, but I think we're doing this for sake of knowledge. Our goal is to understand how John Williams envisioned the ToD score (the so much claimed "how the composer originally wrote the cues" against a TPM UE conception of scores) and then define how much of the music he recorded is available (officially or not). The Sanskrit ceremony is part of the score, so it's part of our work as well.

Thanks for your impressive work, my fellow countryman! :) I too am VERY interested in the actual scoring process and how Williams deals with changes, rewrites and all that. It's always illuminating to have a peak at the work of the film composer. It's the nature of the beast, literally.

Oh, and I think the Ceremony cues are some of the most striking, original and "craziest" pieces Williams ever wrote for a film. Maybe they're not meant for a pleasant listening experience, but they work wonderfully for their purpose and they're musically very interesting.

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Are you saying that "The Temple Of Doom" matches up EXACTLY with 7m1, except for the ending?

Could the synth overdubs be "Sacrifice Sweetener" material?

The album track "The Temple of Doom" matches exactly the partiture we have for cue 7M1, except for the synthesizers, which aren't there. My note about the ending concerns the edit we hear in the movie (and in the editing package), as it seems to be a little different (particularly the "HOO HOO HOO HOO" part, which seems to run at double speed in the film). I'm 100% sure that the ending of 7M1 is the one we hear on the CD (forget what I said about the album ending taken from the Sweetener, I re-read the cue sheet while listening to the album track and I had no difficulty in following the music: the bars matched perfectly).

If one can read just a bit of music, it's easy to follow the chant while listening to it. When the choir sings reading the lyrics is enough; when the choir doesn't sing it's easier to follow the music by reading Timpani or Bass Drum staves. If you're curious, try for yourself... you will not find it too difficult.

As for the synth overdubs... I really don't know. It could be either Williams' bad writing or my inability to read it, but I really don't find the word "synth" among the instruments listed in ANY of the Sanskrit cues.

Another catch: I don't remember the movie by heart, nor I'm watching it right now, but do you remember when I spoke about 9 percussive bars in 9M1X? They're marked with "Short Round".

Matteo

P.S.: This also for sake of knowledge and preservation (and a bit of curiosity)... Is anybody interested in getting the actual lyrics to "The Temple of Doom"? Much like somebody wrote down the lyrics from "Duel of the Fates", "Qui-Gon's Funeral" or "Dry Your Tears, Afrika"... (but do not expect me to translate, I don't know Sanskrit!) I mean... Would anybody care if I copied them in a text?

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Hey, you're right! I just listened to "The Temple Of Doom" and was able to follow along with the sheet music to 7m1 no problems. yay! Huge mystery solved!

Here are the only lingering things I need to know before posting an update to the main website:

Does the track "Slalom on Mt Humol" from the CD end exactly where "2m3 Down The Snowbank" ends on the CD, or does the CD actually segue to "2m4 The Indian Village" and then fade out in the middle of that cue?

Approx how long would Snowbank Sweetener be?

Approx how long would Exchange of Glances be?

How long is "11m1 Insert", and was it used in the film? (I can provide a DVD rip if need be)

I think that's it. Actually, I'm gonna investigate the Water Music mystery right now

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Does the track "Slalom on Mt Humol" from the CD end exactly where "2m3 Down The Snowbank" ends on the CD, or does the CD actually segue to "2m4 The Indian Village" and then fade out in the middle of that cue?

The former. The CD track doesn't segue to 2M4 (check the Sitar stave on the last page of 2M3 and compare).

By the way, I think I've found the synth, or at least part of it. In the middle of the cue, at bar 37, there's a glissando marked with "whistling effect" and "wind" (percussions 3rd stave). There's no sign of a clean recording of this "wind effect", though, and it's not present at the beginning of the cue.

(... but I do prefer the track WITHOUT the "wind effect"...)

Matteo

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There is a "wind effect" marked at bar 37. The closest thing to a wind effect I hear precisely in that spot is the synth at 1.43 into the track. As for the opening... There's no sign of it in the sheet. One could assume it was either recorded separately straight from the beginning in order to get a nice and subtle opening to the CD version, or recorded separately for bar 37 and then re-used as a opening (much like one would do with choir: record it separately).

Matteo

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That's probably what happened..... opening with the wind sounds better than opening right on the percussion beat

I'd love to know what is crossed out at the top of the first page of 7m1, and what the post it note (?) said that was on the sheet when photocopied

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Approx how long would Exchange of Glances be?

If I recall correctly, naming S the duration in seconds of a cue, T the tempo of the cue and B the number of beats it consists of, the mathematic relation is 60xS = TxB.

Assuming "Exchange of Glances" has the same tempo of the previous Feast cues (about quarter = 120, that is two beats per second), we have...

60 x S = 120 x (3+4+3+2+3+3+3)

60 x S = 120 x 21

S = 42 EDIT - Wrong timing. See a few posts below.

So "Exchange of Glances" should approximately clock between 40 and 45 seconds. :)

What's the trouble with the "Snowbank Sweetener"? Not knowing where it had to be placed. 2M3 can be extremely fast or extremely slow. Knowing where to place the insert would have helped us in knowing our T.

Matteo

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OK here's what I can figure out about 11m1 Water Music / 11m1 Insert:

times are from the DVD:

1:40:32-1:40:43 = where the opening Indy Theme intro cut from the film would go (BTW, overlapping the fadeout of Mine Car Chase) (0:00-0:11 on Concord)

1:40:43-1:41:05 = 0:11-0:33 of Water! from Concord

1:41:05-1:41:16 = the insert?

1:41:16-1:42:20 = 0:46-end of Water! from Concord

1:42:20 is where The Sword Trick begins

Except I think the insert was supposed to be longer...

lemme go find that lego file now I thought I might have heard it in

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