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Hook


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Your thoughts on HOOK the score and movie?  

211 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • LOVE the score, LOVE the movie
      68
    • LOVE the score, the movie is decent
      105
    • LOVE the score, HATE the movie
      15
    • HATE the score, LOVE the movie
      0
    • HATE the score, the movie is decent
      0
    • HATE the score, HATE the movie
      3
    • the score is decent, I LOVE the movie
      0
    • the score and movie are both decent
      16
    • the score is decent, I HATE the movie
      8


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We watched this over the weekend in two sittings. I was a sobbing mess by the end and it's all John Williams' fault. Little kid feels Peter's face, I cry. The food appears I cry. Slice the coconut, I cry. Moira hands the baby to her daddy, I cry. 

 

It leaves Netflix 31 March. Don't share passwords but see it before it goes. 

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On 19/1/2022 at 11:17 PM, Bespin said:

Yes, with Silence of the lambs and Robin Hood Prince of thieves!

Silence of the Lambs? Now I’ll have to re-listen to that score, because I don’t remember much of it. Robin Hood: POT on the other hand, very much. 

On 16/2/2022 at 9:26 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

 

In a kid movie? Really?

But those poor lost boys never grow old… 

On 18/2/2022 at 12:11 AM, MrJosh said:

I still want someone to sing it with a pirate-y voice!

@Bespin might be up for the job, he ‘s drunk 2/3 of the time he’s on the forum, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum… (no offense, Bespin!)

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11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Ah, they're soundtrack fans.

I’ve added “poor” to the lost boys. Think about having to live forever in the body of a boy (without soundtracks), surrounded by all those beautiful mermaids and courtezans. Then there are the pirates of course. HOOK might be a much more adult film than you know. 

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3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Why?

Seriously, why don’t you watch it? I’m truly curious, since in my opinion it’s a genuine classic, and the score works even better with the film, if for nothing else, it’s worth watching it for.

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3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:
  • The little I've seen of it was very poor, IMO.
  • It's not considered a good film.
  • I'm not a kid.
  • There's so many more interesting films on my to-watch list.

I see. If you didn't like what you saw I can understand. I thought you didn't even give it a try.

I believe it is now widely considered a modern classic, but I know that at the time of its release many people hated it, and still do. It's certainly a diving film, some people hate it, some like it.

I myself loved it back in 1991 and frequently rewatch it, and John Williams' score plays a large part in it. 

I'm not a kid, either, nor were the people who made the film. 

That's true, there are many more interesting films out there, but for a Williams-admirer, like you and I, considering how amazing Williams' score is, I think watching it is sort of evident. I of course speak for myself. I absolutely understand if you don't like it. 

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13 minutes ago, JTW said:

I see. If you didn't like what you saw I can understand. I thought you didn't even give it a try.

 

I've only seen a few minutes on the telly and on Youtube, but what I saw didn't make me want to see more of it.

 

14 minutes ago, JTW said:

I myself loved it back in 1991 and frequently rewatch it, and John Williams' score plays a large part in it. 

I'm not a kid, either, nor were the people who made the film. 

 

It usually matters a lot to your appreciation whether you see such films in your early years or not.

 

16 minutes ago, JTW said:

That's true, there are many more interesting films out there, but for a Williams-admirer, like you and I, considering how amazing Williams' score is, I think watching it is sort of evident. I of course speak for myself. I absolutely understand if you don't like it. 

 

I make some exceptions if I find the score interesting. I bought The Towering Inferno on blu-ray in order to watch it for the first time, which I wouldn't have done if it wasn't for the score. On the other hand, yesterday I could have purchase Earthquake for a good price on blu, but didn't because neither the film nor the score interests me much.

 

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8 hours ago, JTW said:

I believe it is now widely considered a modern classic, but I know that at the time of its release many people hated it, and still do. It's certainly a diving film, some people hate it, some like it.

 

It's frequently rated very high on the list of Spielberg's worst movies, though I would argue it's more popular than Always, more accessible than 1941, and less of a cringeworthy disappointment than Indiana Jones and the KotCS.

 

There are some moments that have not aged well. There are some moments that are very mean, and there is one major character motivation flip that I still do not understand. If you overanalyze the script, it all falls apart. 

 

I know that I watched the movie with rose colored glasses because it's the first time I've watched this since Robin's passing, and I want Peter's happy thought. 

 

This is probably the only Dustin Hoffman movie that I've watched in its entirety, so the only way that I see him IS as Hook. 

 

The food fight and insult scene is still embarrassing and mean. 

 

I don't think the fake suicide scene aged well. 

 

The water in the pirate harbor looks foul. 

 

I don't understand why Tink works her butt off to make Peter remember his past, then when he finally does remember, she tries to trap him for her own carnal needs. I guess for the script to work, Neverland needs to have different effects on people's brains. Jack fell completely under Hook's spell and forgot the real world. Maggie never forgot. Tink can toe the line. Peter fell completely into his past until a real kiss brought him back into his present. Was this Tink's way to self-correct his seduction?

 

Or was she the grand architect of the entire kidnapping in the first place to steal Pan's kids to win Peter Pan's adult heart? She could've just drowned the kids on the way back to England.

 

When the kids return to their room and hop into bed, that is mean to their sleeping children. Of course, it's a nice movie moment for Maggie Smith to be in the room, too. But it's mean. 

 

Who is the window washer? Jack mentions him to Peter before they are kidnapped as being someone who comes to the window. Is he Hook's informant for the theft? Is he supposed to be Bob Hoskins like the trash collecting guy? 

 

Would Peter's cell phone last three days? Maybe in 1991, battery life was better. 

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8 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

 

It's frequently rated very high on the list of Spielberg's worst movies, though I would argue it's more popular than Always, more accessible than 1941, and less of a cringeworthy disappointment than Indiana Jones and the KotCS.

 

There are some moments that have not aged well. There are some moments that are very mean, and there is one major character motivation flip that I still do not understand. If you overanalyze the script, it all falls apart. 

 

I know that I watched the movie with rose colored glasses because it's the first time I've watched this since Robin's passing, and I want Peter's happy thought. 

 

This is probably the only Dustin Hoffman movie that I've watched in its entirety, so the only way that I see him IS as Hook. 

 

The food fight and insult scene is still embarrassing and mean. 

 

The water in the pirate harbor looks foul. 

 

I don't understand why Tink works her butt off to make Peter remember his past, then when he finally does remember, she tries to trap him for her own carnal needs. I guess for the script to work, Neverland needs to have different effects on people's brains. Jack fell completely under Hook's spell and forgot the real world. Maggie never forgot. Tink can toe the line. Peter fell completely into his past until a real kiss brought him back into his present. Was this Tink's way to self-correct his seduction?

 

Or was she the grand architect of the entire kidnapping in the first place to steal Pan's kids to win Peter Pan's adult heart? She could've just drowned the kids on the way back to England.

I think you’re overthinking it a little

bit. :) This is a kids movie, not 12 Angry Men. 

I know it’s FAR from a perfect or even an objectively good movie, but I personally love it. Maybe because I first saw it when I was young, and I was more forgiving. The music, the acting, the magical world all got to me. It’s a great retelling of a classic fairytale. 
I get it that you don’t like it, it’s perfectly understandable. But many people like it, and I think over the decades it has become a quasi classic, and as you put it, in Spielberg’s filmography it’s on a higher level than several of his other films like Indy 4 or The BFG, or Tintin. 

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20 minutes ago, JTW said:

I think you’re overthinking it a little

bit. :) This is a kids movie, not 12 Angry Men. 

 

 

 

This you?

 

13 hours ago, JTW said:

I’ve added “poor” to the lost boys. Think about having to live forever in the body of a boy (without soundtracks), surrounded by all those beautiful mermaids and courtezans. Then there are the pirates of course. HOOK might be a much more adult film than you know. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

 

This you?

 

 

What’s your point? Because you’re either trying to provoke me or you don’t have a sense of humor, because obviously I was joking with Jurassic Shark which you would know if you read our comments. So again, what is your point?

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This has surely been discussed a million times:

 

The Main Theme for HOOK starts with the same two notes as the Main Theme for HOME ALONE. They were written back-to-back, both are about children, and John Williams used the same two notes for the creation of the themes. I love it that the two melodies are similar but couldn’t be more different from one another. That’s the genius of Maestro Williams. 

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I will say its both a kids movie as well as an adult movie. I can't fault anyone for not liking it or appreciating it near how I do, because I really love this movie and love the story. Hook, IMO, would work much better with an extended cut, so roughly 3.5 hours(the actor who played Thud Butt said in an interview a few years ago that one of the earliest rough cuts he saw was about 3.5 hours long). A lot was cut from the film, so much so the screenwriters kids were both confused as to what happened, because their dad had told them the story so they knew it in an out. I love the themes presented here, such as growing up metaphorically, to be careful so you don't become like Peter Banning and shut your loved ones out of your life.

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I only saw this movie as an adult (it was a few years ago during the heyday of the pandemic) and I thought it was forgettable. Not bad, just a little boring and weird.

 

John Williams' score, on the other hand, is great.

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I tend to agree with Spielberg's own assessment of this film: that the first 25-30 minutes are very good, but afterwards, hides it's lack of story with production design. Still a top 10 JW score, though.

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7 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

I tend to agree with Spielberg's own assessment of this film: that the first 25-30 minutes are very good, but afterwards, hides it's lack of story with production design. Still a top 10 JW score, though.

He doesnt like the finale? The teaching of the film about parents and children relationship is great. In ET for example... The world building about a broken family... Is not really a necessary part of the story. 

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1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

He doesnt like the finale? The teaching of the film about parents and children relationship is great. In ET for example... The world building about a broken family... Is not really a necessary part of the story. 

 

? He talks about the last two hours of the movie, not the finale.

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1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

He doesnt like the finale? The teaching of the film about parents and children relationship is great. In ET for example... The world building about a broken family... Is not really a necessary part of the story. 

Spielberg has said he only likes the London scenes, at least thats what he thinks he did well....which is the first 25ish minutes of the movie and the final 10.

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It should have been a musical.

3 hours ago, Brando said:

Spielberg has said he only likes the London scenes, at least thats what he thinks he did well....which is the first 25ish minutes of the movie and the final 10.

Ah, then ok.

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52 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

It should have been a musical.

 

Yes. If the written songs had been included in the final cut the film would work better i think

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57 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

It should have been a musical.

Ah, then ok.

That would have been much better and more original than what he did this year. 

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5 hours ago, Bespin said:

One major default I've always found to the film is the sets, they are "closed" and claustrophobic, unatural.

 

We don't believe we are in Neverland, we are in a studio.

 

It suggests that the entire movie is an elaborate dream. An acid trip. 

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3 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

 

It suggests that the entire movie is an elaborate dream. An acid trip. 

 

It suggests that the movie was supposed to be a theatrical play using a limited number of sets.

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Yes, it reflects the stage like atmosphere of a musical play.

 

I'm old-fashioned and oddly particular in my affinity for the use of appealing studio shooting, especially when dealing with fantasy work.  It often gives it a make believe aura, appropriate for the subject matter and tone.

 

That said, I watched Hook once, ages ago, and never desired to return to Neverland.  The blu ray rests shrink-wrapped on my shelf.

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19 hours ago, JTW said:

The Main Theme for HOOK starts with the same two notes as the Main Theme for HOME ALONE.


Indeed - it was one of the first things I noticed when I saw Hook in 1991, which was the first JW film I saw as a JW fan.

 

It was even more fun I the next year when I saw Far & Away and heard the first four notes of the main theme: ‘Ha! It’s the same opening notes as When You’re Alone and even the same rhythm!’ I thought.

 

So, there’s a (probably unintentional) thread connecting Home Alone to Far & Away, via Hook, within three consecutive years. Anyone feel like constructing a far-fetched theory about why?

 

Mark

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17 minutes ago, QuartalHarmony said:


Indeed - it was one of the first things I noticed when I saw Hook in 1991, which was the first JW film I saw as a JW fan.

 

It was even more fun I the next year when I saw Far & Away and heard the first four notes of the main theme: ‘Ha! It’s the same opening notes as When You’re Alone and even the same rhythm!’ I thought.

 

So, there’s a (probably unintentional) thread connecting Home Alone to Far & Away, via Hook, within three consecutive years. Anyone feel like constructing a far-fetched theory about why?

 

Mark

Great find, I didn't realize the connection between HOOK and FAR AND AWAY!

 

Could be coincidence, those scores were so close to one another that the theme must've stayed in Williams' subconscious and he used it again without realizing that he had already used it in an earlier score. At least I think that that was the case with FAR AND AWAY and HOME ALONE.

 

HOME ALONE and HOOK might be a deliberate choice, since it's the main theme and the same two notes.

 

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While we're looking at musical relatives of Hook, don't forget the unused Jeremy's Theme from Superman IV, a sort of photo-"Childhood" theme.

 

Edit: Meant to type "proto" as in prototype.

 

 

 

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What do you mean by "unused"?

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Perhaps surprisingly, as I'm a huge Spielberg devotee generally, I really hate this movie.  I can enjoy watching it for the craft of the production design/cinematography, and I love the score of course, but I pretty much hate every single thing about the story and characters.  This held the bottom spot in my Spielberg ranking for many years, until RP1 came out (and these are the only two Spielberg movies I truly dislike).

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

What do you mean by "unused"?

What does he mean by “photo”?

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Perhaps surprisingly, as I'm a huge Spielberg devotee generally, I really hate this movie.  I can enjoy watching it for the craft of the production design/cinematography, and I love the score of course, but I pretty much hate every single thing about the story and characters.  This held the bottom spot in my Spielberg ranking for many years, until RP1 came out (and these are the only two Spielberg movies I truly dislike).

More than Indiana Jones 4?

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Sorry, I meant to type " proto" as in prototype, but it auto-corrected me.  And I had thought it wasn't used at all in Superman IV, although that could be my memory failing.  The concert version in its full form released in the Blue Box was pretty revelatory at the time.  If Jeremy's theme does appear in the film, it was brief enough to fade with any memory I have of the film.

 

EDIT: I stand corrected.  According to the Blue Box liner notes, the theme was dialed out from every occurrence except for one scene.  So, it was used. 

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Perhaps surprisingly, as I'm a huge Spielberg devotee generally, I really hate this movie.  I can enjoy watching it for the craft of the production design/cinematography, and I love the score of course, but I pretty much hate every single thing about the story and characters.  This held the bottom spot in my Spielberg ranking for many years, until RP1 came out (and these are the only two Spielberg movies I truly dislike).

 

Now I want to watch it again, and see if I despise it.  I remember not liking it, but active hate for a movie... I'm not sure I could given how delightful the score is, and it's part of the experience.

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  • 6 months later...

There is a user on YouTube named Ray Stanz that posted what seems to be the session leak, but recently the Ultimate War (which did not have the horrible volume fluctuations from the stems used by LLL) has been removed from that playlist. Weird. Wonder if it means anything.

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6 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

There is a user on YouTube named Ray Stanz that posted what seems to be the session leak, but recently the Ultimate War (which did not have the horrible volume fluctuations from the stems used by LLL) has been removed from that playlist. Weird. Wonder if it means anything.

Yeah thats my channel lol. Not sure why only that video was taken down. Now YT did give me a notice saying there was film audio that was copyrighted, but I don't know how the were able to pick up on that because the 2 inserts were extremely clean from the film rip, like no dialogue or anything. I did think the same about it meaning anything, but perhaps not. But I really hope it does mean something!

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1 hour ago, Brando said:

Yeah thats my channel lol. Not sure why only that video was taken down. Now YT did give me a notice saying there was film audio that was copyrighted, but I don't know how the were able to pick up on that because the 2 inserts were extremely clean from the film rip, like no dialogue or anything. I did think the same about it meaning anything, but perhaps not. But I really hope it does mean something!

 

I found it strange that only that one video was taken down while all the others, including quite a few bits that are completely unreleased, were left intact.

 

Surely all the music from the film is copyrighted.

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2 hours ago, Brando said:

Yeah thats my channel lol. Not sure why only that video was taken down. Now YT did give me a notice saying there was film audio that was copyrighted, but I don't know how the were able to pick up on that because the 2 inserts were extremely clean from the film rip, like no dialogue or anything. I did think the same about it meaning anything, but perhaps not. But I really hope it does mean something!

 

I have parts of it my channel as well, guess I'll have to keep an eye on them. Although it's possible the length (if you uploaded the entire Ultimate War as one long video) may have contributed. I uploaded the full TPM End Credits at one point and it was detected as film audio, whereas the individual cues were perfectly fine.

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4 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

I found it strange that only that one video was taken down while all the others, including quite a few bits that are completely unreleased, were left intact.

 

Surely all the music from the film is copyrighted.

I know! I mean the Take Me Out to the Ball Game source had more noticeable film audio than the Ultimate War.

 

3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

I have parts of it my channel as well, guess I'll have to keep an eye on them. Although it's possible the length (if you uploaded the entire Ultimate War as one long video) may have contributed. I uploaded the full TPM End Credits at one point and it was detected as film audio, whereas the individual cues were perfectly fine.

Yeah, it was the entire Ultimate War that topped off just before 18 minutes. I have a 12 minute and 18 minute edit of the Battle of Endor up there as well and they haven't been touched. Oh well, my fingers are still crossed it means something!

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45 minutes ago, Brando said:

Oh well, my fingers are still crossed it means something!

 

Don't get too excited just yet; expanded releases usually aren't digitally copyrighted (specifically the previously-unreleased music). If you were to hypothetically upload an entire LLL album, only the music present on the original OST will be detected. And even so, it will be detected as music and not film audio, which is a completely different form of copyright on YouTube.

 

Sorry for the bad news! :lol:

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11 hours ago, Brando said:

Yeah, it was the entire Ultimate War that topped off just before 18 minutes. I have a 12 minute and 18 minute edit of the Battle of Endor up there as well and they haven't been touched. Oh well, my fingers are still crossed it means something!

 

So technically you could just upload the three separate parts without the two film-ripped inserts and they should be fine (which I hope you'll do by the way as I miss being able to listen to this music without horrible volume dips).

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3 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

So technically you could just upload the three separate parts without the two film-ripped inserts and they should be fine (which I hope you'll do by the way as I miss being able to listen to this music without horrible volume dips).

I suppose I could try that. Wonder if it'll let me upload it in 2 parts, because there's really only one good break, the final beat when Peter flies to go rescue Maggie, also heard as the final beat on the OST. Also don't know why they cut it up the way they did on the old LLL release, because none of them end when the cue ends.

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