Joe Brausam 214 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 MmmmmJohn Williams is a bit of a hack. He recycled his Star Wars theme to create his soundtrack for the Harry Potter novies and even this composition for the inauguration lifted from Copeland. That is not a virtue but speaks of creative bankruptcy. I realize that all artists ‘borrow’ or incorporate the work of other artists in their creations, but usually the effect isn’t usually an obvious patchwork of other composers that mark most of Williams’ compositions. He deserves his second rate reputation because few, if any of his compositions, are really his own. I simply do not understand the reverence given to him.— peteCopeland-peteJoe, is that you doing some kind of joke for us? If not, that guy is just a blithering idiot.It's completely serious! It's in the comments on the article that Ray posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 You're right, Smeagol. "Simple Gifts" was written in 1848 by Elder Joseph Brackett, almost 100 years before Copland arranged it into "Appalachian Spring." But do not confuse ignorance with idiocy.I always liked John P. Zdechlik's arrangement of "Simple Gifts" in "Chorale and Shaker Dance," a 1972 concert band staple.So John Williams really went back in time, to the music of antebellum America to find this piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeagol 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You're right, Smeagol. "Simple Gifts" was written in 1848 by Elder Joseph Brackett, almost 100 years before Copland arranged it into "Appalachian Spring." But do not confuse ignorance with idiocy.Ignorance is when you don't know something and either keep your mouth shut or accept that you don't know enough and get informed before opening your mouth. Idiocy is when you don't know about something and pretend that you do by bragging, being an a$$ and telling others how wrong they are, even though you're twice as wrong. That's the way I see it at least. It might be a bit extreme, but I've dealt with people like this for a long time, so my patience towards them has diminished considerably. But in the end, who cares? I got a new piece by Williams today. Couldn't be happier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Oh wow, I just listened to it, after my English teacher told me how good it was. Fantastic performance of a fantastic piece! Too bad the elitists decide to use this to their cruel advantage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The piece was much better than A Timeless Call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The more I listen to this, the better it gets. It's really a lovely, genuinely inspired piece of Williams' artistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 To be completely honest, I never listened to "A Timeless Call". Maybe in twenty years when they release a new Compilations CD.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm not even sure if we have A Timeless Call separated from the sound of the video, do we?And I don't think any of us have hear Warner at War yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,673 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Now that I've listened to it without Huw Edwards jabbering all over it, it's a very enjoyable piece. Maybe could've been a little shorter, and it got a little too 'busy' towards the end IMO, but I'll probably make an mp3 from the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ignorance is when you don't know something and either keep your mouth shut or accept that you don't know enough and get informed before opening your mouth. Idiocy is when you don't know about something and pretend that you do by bragging, being an a$$ and telling others how wrong they are, even though you're twice as wrong.I'm not arguing with you. But sometimes people go their whole lives accepting some fallacy to be true, and never learn that they're wrong until they put that idea out on the table for all to hear, only to find somebody who can give them more information. If they never provided their thought for challenge, they would believe a lie to be true their whole lives, and people don't always second guess every single piece of information they pick up or they'd go crazy. Granted, if you're in the public media, it is nice to have all your facts straight before you go around re-educating people with your lies and fake truths, but it's always great to hear the other person correct them or call in later. In this case, hearing a song that you thought was 60 years old by one guy, and stating that's the truth, only to find that it was really written a century before that by somebody else.It happens all the time in rock and blues. Someone will hear a song and attribute it to one artist of today or the 70's, only to find it was written in the 50s or 60s, and just got covered by everyone and their brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,625 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'll repeat for the third time. If you make an MP3 out of the MSNBC video it will sound a bit better than my recording. I have a bit of "hardware" background noise from my DVD recorder I think. Mine might be less compressed,I'm not sure.If anyone has a very clear DVR recorded version from a HD channel ,he should upload it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I don't have access to my sound editing software; all I have is a 20 minute WAV file of the MSNBC recording. For now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Twenty mintues? Does the MSNBC recording have more material than the FOX one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 10, 15, 20 minutes, whatever, it's immaterial.The last thing I wanted to do was start recording this thing as the announcer was fumbling through the introduction. It's easier to delete than it is to create. So I hit Record when the trumpets started playing as Biden came in, and I hit stop about 20 minutes later, after Obama had been sworn in. I have the same length of Williams song as everyone else, it's just book ended by procedure.If you wanted to, you could actually tape record your whole life. I just don't think you'd have time to listen to it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ah, okay. Well, Godspeed on your quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 A blessing! A blessing from the Lord! God be praised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 That is the spirit."The more successful an artist is, the more you can count on some bitter souls to try to stomp on him. A couple of points –Those people writing condescendingly about Williams in comparison to the other major American composer who used “Simple Gifts” might have more credibility if they remembered that the name was Copland, not Copeland.Is every note Williams writes brand-spanking-new? No. Nor was every note from Leonard Bernstein. After the premiere of his MASS, Copland called Bernstein “the kidding bandit.” But Williams is capable of marvelous things. The jazzy title music to CATCH ME IF YOU CAN is one of the most inventive pieces to be written for film, and his early score for THE REIVERS is Americana at its best. When I see his name in the credits, whether the film works or not, I usually know that there will be something about it that I will probably like."This guy needs a handshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I just ripped the audio. The DVD I recorded on is not HDto play the MSNBC FLV video you need a FLV player .I've tried a number of those, and this one is my favorite: http://www.martijndevisser.com/blog/flv-player/Oh, and nice work Mr. Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 My first impression was it was decent, nothing spectacular. I need to listen to it again seperate from events, which I'll be the first to admit probably biased my initial reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Seeing as I had to watch the video isolated from the actual Ceremony, I escaped that bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I was so sure I would miss it, so when I heard it live, I was so excited. An excellent piece! The performances were just as good as Williams' arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyprod 86 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 hey guys, i posted the MP3 of the MSNBC video on page 7 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's on megaupload !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I've received a rather clean recording of the piece straight from a DVR taping (audio only), if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Sounds like a plan.Your Personal Message box is (unsurprisingly) full, Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I feel so sorry for you, Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yeah, thanks dude. With help I'll be able to make it through these trying times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thank you very much. I think you will set a JWFan record for the fastest amount of time an Inbox fills up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Oh such a great piece! Every time I hear it, it gets better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Speaking of inboxes filling up, has anyone had success with archiving the contents of theirs? I've tried multiple times in both HTML and spreadsheet format, and I just never receive the email. Every time someone PMs me, I have to find another one to delete in order to avoid having it fill up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The Washington Post has posted a typically condescending review of Williams's piece, suggesting that Williams should have written "a stirring film-score-type theme" -- whatever that means. The writer cannot seem to decide what she wants -- on one hand she faults Williams for revisiting territory so memorably trodden by Copland, but on the other hand desires that Williams not stray from far from the themes that made him famous. You can bet that if Williams had written something more akin to his previous fanfares that the same reviewer would have slammed the piece as "unimaginative" and "cliché-ridden." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I am beginning to lose all patience for these type of people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Meanwhile, The New Yorker, in a review of the new piece, damns Williams with faint praise, calling him "the best second-rate composer in America." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I am beginning to lose all patience for these type of people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Poor John Williams. The fact that he was asked to write a composition for a monumental presidential inauguration, has five Oscars, Kennedy Center honors, etc. says nothing about his reputation. No, it's a few snide editorials that show how underappreciated he is. The man is so mistreated by academics and elites! Nobody understands his genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Can I use that as a quote or something, Henry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No, you can't. I just registered it with the copyright office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I bet you just stole it from someone who wrote that a hundred years ago. We all know you are a talentless writer. That post's similarity with this one:My bad. is far too uncanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Well, many of the greats of the past were derided by critics to, only to have their works come to be loved in the future. Like The Rite of Spring - granted this doesn't hold a candle to that it's certainly the same idea. The piece may not become a classic but time - not reviews - will show us its true merit, whether it be bad or good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Poor John Williams. The fact that he was asked to write a composition for a monumental presidential inauguration, has five Oscars, Kennedy Center honors, etc. says nothing about his reputation. No, it's a few snide editorials that show how underappreciated he is. The man is so mistreated by academics and elites! Nobody understands his genius!We are upset with the idiocy and blind (or deaf) prejudice these people feel towards film scores and their creators. I, for one, don't feel too sorry for JW himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 B-b-but I wanna pick a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 He compares a 25 minute large scale work for symphony orchestra, choir and children choir and pre-recorded voices and soundto a 4 minute chamber work that is based on a popular song.What a great critic, with so much argumentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I am beginning to lose all patience for these type of people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I knew his "Air" theme reminded me of something.... Masterpiece Theatre. The first three notes of the themes are identical, and the Air's consequent phrase matches the Masterpiece theme's next few notes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I knew his "Air" theme reminded me of something.... Masterpiece Theatre. The first three notes of the themes are identical, and the Air's consequent phrase matches the Masterpiece theme's next few notes too.I agree, the first notes are the same but the rest of the phrase corresponds to the usual Williams phrasing. But, as I said in my earlier posts in this thread, the theme would be in the vein of American Collection (Masterpiece Theater). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeagol 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I love how what's her face from the Washington Post review is trying to find a hidden message in the fact that they were only four players"The spareness of instrumentation was certainly in keeping with Obama's recurrent message about the country's difficulties, and his desire not to make his inauguration too festive."He didn't want to make it too festive my a$$. There were well over 4 million people attending and the whole thing is going to cost more than $150 millions (thus making it the most expensive inauguration ever)WTF? Couldn't it just have been a practical issue? -Man in Black calling Yo-Yo on the phone: Yo-yo, Inauguration, music, you got five minutes. The usual place.-Yo-yo: Hmmm kaay. ByeeYo-Yo talking to himself: Hmmm.. five minutes... I guess it wouldn't make sense to have something too big for such a short time. Maybe I'll call Itzhak, I haven't seen Anthony since 2006 and Gabriella is just awesome (and hot). That's a pretty good idea and.. I could call John and he could help us put something together and since Obama is a fan of Copland maybe we could do something related. I'm sure John will come with something up. I should probably just go to bed... heheheEdit: I might be getting into a political discussion with the money comment here but that's not the intent. I'm just criticizing what's her face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No, no, you are amusing us. Feel free to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Chamber music is generally underappreciated. whereas it can be high art as is symphonic music. More doesn't mean better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yeah, look at what happened to the "Jaws" films when they decided we needed to see more of the shark.You know, sometimes I feel like my posts are a waste of people's times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeagol 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Who was it that posted something about white people pretending to like classical music? Those two reviewers remind me of the people that blog was trying to make fun of. They both probably have their subscription to their local symphony orchestra season, and are now just enlightening us with the immense knowledge they gathered from skimming through the program notes at concerts and searching who wrote "simple gifts" on wikipedia.They just want us to know better. They just want us to see the truth...You know, sometimes I feel like my posts are a waste of people's times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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