What is the last score you listened to?

[Henry B 50]

Aladdin:

I still think this is the weakest Menken score I've heard, but I do enjoy it. "Arabian Nights," "Friend Like Me," and "Prince Ali" are the best songs. I also enjoy some of the orchestral stuff, but it doesn't stand to other Menken orchestral stuff. Is that a purposeful cameo of "When You Wish Upon a Star" at 0:05 of "Aladdin's World?"

Yes. By the way, the three songs you noted are the three retained from the original concept of the film (Menken and Ashman). The words to "One Jump Ahead" and "A Whole New World" were written by Tim Rice. They're just not as interesting, are they?

[Andy 4,122]

Nightwing by Henry Mancini. Much more somber than I was expecting. Unfortunately, the rhythmic strings that helped propel the finale of Lifeforce are absent here. The theme is very zen and gets under your skin in a good way, but overall, this is more mood music than a storytelling experience. 3/5

[John Crichton 4]

Shawn Murphy brass section small? Or is that more distant?

Murphy brass on a bad day doesn't sound small, it just sounds like it's played inside an aquarium.

Yes, that is a better way to put it.

[Trent B 337]

Star Trek: First Contact complete score. One of my favorite Star Trek scores and an absolute enjoyment from beginning to end.

[Datameister 2,042]

JNH's King Kong. Er, part of it. I had some other stuff to do, so I didn't finish it. But as usual, I definitely enjoyed it. It's repetitive, but there's a lot of great stuff in there. The action music was what initially grabbed my attention, but it's the love theme of sorts that keeps me coming back for more. Good stuff.

[indy4 155]

Aladdin:

I still think this is the weakest Menken score I've heard, but I do enjoy it. "Arabian Nights," "Friend Like Me," and "Prince Ali" are the best songs. I also enjoy some of the orchestral stuff, but it doesn't stand to other Menken orchestral stuff. Is that a purposeful cameo of "When You Wish Upon a Star" at 0:05 of "Aladdin's World?"

Yes. By the way, the three songs you noted are the three retained from the original concept of the film (Menken and Ashman). The words to "One Jump Ahead" and "A Whole New World" were written by Tim Rice. They're just not as interesting, are they?

Yeah, I agree. Generally I care more about Menken's role, meaning the actual music, but when I think about it Ashman's lyrics are definitely more interesting.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

For some reason, my ear tends to ignore lyrics in a song, even when I am asked to annotate the lyrics. It is a bad habit of mine, and another contributing factor as to why I listen to orchestral music only.

Anyways, I have been listening to War of the Worlds, inspired by the Thread. While I love the vast majority of the score ("Escape from the Basket" really being the only exception), I must admit that I am having troubles finding these motivs that some of you guys talk about.

[Hlao-roo 389]

must admit that I am having troubles finding these motivs that some of you guys talk about.

Ah, but that's what makes the score so brilliant, so mature! Don't you know that a score's quality is inversely correlated with the apprehensibility of its themes and motifs?

[Datameister 2,042]

For some reason, my ear tends to ignore lyrics in a song, even when I am asked to annotate the lyrics. It is a bad habit of mine, and another contributing factor as to why I listen to orchestral music only.

I know exactly what you mean. Or...it's not so much that I ignore lyrics, but I tend to be put off by them, and I have a hard time understanding them, and very limited desire to understand them. What I care about most is the music itself...not because it's "better" or anything, but simply because that's the way my brain is wired.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Aladdin:

I still think this is the weakest Menken score I've heard, but I do enjoy it. "Arabian Nights," "Friend Like Me," and "Prince Ali" are the best songs. I also enjoy some of the orchestral stuff, but it doesn't stand to other Menken orchestral stuff. Is that a purposeful cameo of "When You Wish Upon a Star" at 0:05 of "Aladdin's World?" 3/5 stars

The songs are great, and Robin Williams is brilliant.

For some reason, my ear tends to ignore lyrics in a song, even when I am asked to annotate the lyrics.

Same here, although I've been improving since I've been listening to songs more frequently. It's easier with pieces that tell a story though (operas and oratorios) - as long as I understand the language, that is.

[Ollie 1,059]

I never pay attention to the lyrics.

[Henry B 50]

I didn't pay attention to lyrics either until I actually gave them a chance. There's a lot to be said for the union of language and music. It's how it all began. I find that paying attention to the lyrics in decently written music (e.g. Renaissance madrigals or German lied) really enhances the emotional impact of it.

must admit that I am having troubles finding these motivs that some of you guys talk about.

Ah, but that's what makes the score so brilliant, so mature! Don't you know that a score's quality is inversely correlated with the apprehensibility of its themes and motifs?

Let me just offer my input as a composer: writing a theme isn't hard. Seriously. Just spin some melodies and harmonies together. Writing a good theme is an entirely different matter, but what I don't understand is how a strong use of leitmotif is always superior to through-composed music. How can anyone be so narrow minded as to demand this structure in every single score they listen to? Through-composed music isn't an intellectual pissing contest, it's just another way to do things. And sometimes it's great. Besides, it's really obvious that there's an ending motive that runs through "The Return to Boston," "The Reunion" and "Epilogue" based on Dies Irae, so War of the Worlds is not without its themes. It just doesn't have a big, goofy fanfare for the alien invaders and a whimsical scherzo for the heroics of Tom Cruise.

[Hlao-roo 389]

what I don't understand is how a strong use of leitmotif is always superior to through-composed music. How can anyone be so narrow minded as to demand this structure in every single score they listen to?

A straw man if I ever saw one.

[indy4 155]

The Star Wars Vault:

An interesting collection of random SW stuff. "Holiday Special" is a fun listen, and I do enjoy listening to the different interviewers. I feel like such a nerd.

[Red 75]

Beauty and the Beast:

A very good score. This is probably the third best Menken score, after Hunchback and Pocahontas. "Be Our Guest," "Belle," "Human Again," "Mob Song" are the best songs. There's also a lot of great orchestral music, I love the prologue theme to death. 4/5 stars

IMO Menken's 2nd best. Great score.

[Wojo 2,453]

I haven't seen this movie in years. I forgot how great the ending is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH2LJVbV72Y...feature=related

I love the Transformation music.

[indy4 155]

Straight Outta Lynwood:

Weird Al is a genius, and this CD is great. "White and Nerdy," "Canadian Idiot," "Trapped in the Drive Thru," and "Don't Download This Song" are the highlights, but all the songs are good. 4/5 stars

[Delorean90 42]

Awesome album. In addition to the excellent choices you mentioned, I must mention that "I'll Sue Ya!" cracks me up everytime. It's the combination of the satirical lyrics with the satirically-used angry rock singing/music. Terrific.

[indy4 155]

"I'll Sue Ya!" is great, but it can sorta get on my nerves if I hear it too much. But it's still hilarious.

[Incanus 5,714]

I never pay attention to the lyrics.

I am the complete opposite. If a piece of music has lyrics they are there for a purpose. Whether it is a lied or an oratorio or an opera or to a lesser extent a film score. Film composers often resort to pseudo language lyrics in order to attain a certain flavor or style or rhythmic aspect in their music and again a key factor is mostly time which they do not have. They have to think fast and create fast and have no time to consult linguists or find a proper text or poem. Few examples of this style are Shirley Walker's Batman the Mask of Phantasm in which the choral lyrics are just the names of the producers and film crew backwards, Joel McNeely scoring the russian chorus in Virus with similar technique and Leonard Rosenman using his own name backwards as lyrics for Bakshi's animated LotR.

A good set of lyrics can truly heighten the musical experience and often works as a miniature story told through both music and words. For a piece of drama (like an opera or a film score) it creates a backdrop that is expressing either a subtext or with opera telling the story in close tandem with words. I personally think there is a world of difference between choral "oohs and aahs" acting as pseudo lyrics compared to meaningful lyrics. Both of course have their uses.

LotR is a fine and a very operatic example from the world of film scores. Every choral or a soloist piece has purposeful lyrics that add another dimension to them and the scene and for me add tremendously to the drama of the music. And more often than not it also brings back some of Tolkien's own poems and even dialogue to the scene which could not be inserted there otherwise.

Williams' use of the Battle of the Trees for TPM was incidental but he found a suitable line from the poem and utilized it to a great effect. It adds a subtext as well as providing the driving sound for the sword fight, as JW puts it, a pagan rite of sacrifice. Similarly the choir intones "Sweetly dream. Find sleep. Sweetly dream. Find sleep. Overcome death. Sweetly dream" in the funeral of Qui-Gonn Jinn almost as a last benediction for the fallen and again adding a sense of mysticism to the proceedings. He continues this in ROTS where he adds the choral line "Grievous are the crimes of the Empire" to scenes with General Grievous relating to Palpatine's plot and Anakin slaughtering the innocent. Yes the choir is stating the obvious but it is operatic and dramatic. It works whether the audience knows the meaning of the words or not but to me at least knowing them strengthens the drama.

Goldsmith's Ave Satani sends chills down my spine not only because of the general atmosphere of the piece but even more so with those blasphemous lyrics. Of course the composer is not professing his own faith in the devil but doing this for the cinematic purpose, adding a layer of dread and sense of evil and wrong into the picture. None the less the meaning of the words alone causes horror.

To some it is totally unimportant what the choir or a soloist is singing whether it is a reading of the menu of the nearest restaurant, praising satan, or chanting today's grocery list. Not so for me . Meaning and purpose defines a lot in music to me. I listen to more than just a pleasant sounds or vowels or rhythm language makes.

Listen to Elgar's Sea Pictures and you will hear a wonderful dramatic phrasing between the words and the music. Listen to any opera and discover how essential the meaning is to the music.

You can do this and enjoy both without listening to the lyrics but when you do it elevates the experience.

Last March of the Ents from TTT by Howard Shore

Earth shakes,

Stone breaks

The forest is at your door

The dark sleep is broken

The woods have awoken

The trees have gone to war

Roots rend, wood bends

The Ents have answered the call

Through branches now the wind sings

Feel the power of living things

The trees have gone to war

[Nick Parker 3,040]

...Gee, I think I need to start paying attention to lyrics now...and I know just where to start!

"Nick", now listening to La Boheme

[Ollie 1,059]

I was talking about songs as in rock, R&B etc etc.

[Henry B 50]

what I don't understand is how a strong use of leitmotif is always superior to through-composed music. How can anyone be so narrow minded as to demand this structure in every single score they listen to?

A straw man if I ever saw one.

Yeah, I suppose so, but you're setting up straw men too. Who believes that scores should be as restrained and ambiguous as possible in order to leave no clear impression on the listener? I don't know of anybody who does.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Somtimes, those are worthwhile, too. Though often they seem to be there just so you can set them to music without people wondering why you're playing music and nobody is singing.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I was talking about songs as in rock, R&B etc etc.

You never listened to lyrics in songs? Then what's the point? That's the only thing that makes it different than instrumental music.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Not entirely, if I may say so.

[Ollie 1,059]

I really don't pay them any attention.

Now there are certain songs I know the lyrics to from repeated listens and because they are my favorites but for the most part I've never paid too much attention.

[MSM 126]

I listened to Heidi. The main theme is wonderful!

[Quintus 5,399]

It's not as charming as this version though.

[MSM 126]

It's not a charming as this version though.

Nice, but I don't agree. JW's Heidi Theme (most notably in 'Place of My Own') is much more emotionally touching and timeless than this. Btw I wouldn't expect the President's March in a Heidi movie

[Jay 37,351]

For some reason I decided to listen to all the La La Land Records film scores I own today (though I didn't get a chance to listen to Spaceballs, or the tv scores)

Shirley Walker - Mask Of The Phantasm

This is a fun score! Great new variations on the tv show themes! Though, the Tia Carrere song and the bonus tracks after it are useless

Trevor Jones - The Dark Crystal

You know, apart from the main theme, I just can't get into this score. Maybe if I see the movie some day...

David Arnold - Godzilla

I don't get how I can LOVE Stargate, ID4, and Tomorrow Never Dies, and NONE of Arnold's other stuff. This score just doesn't do anything for me.

Mark Mancina - Bad Boys

I love the main theme, but at 70 minutes, the whole album is a bit of a drag. I remembering getting the Speed 2 / Bad Boys composer promo 10+ years ago, mostly because of Bad Boys.... and ended up liking Speed 2 a lot more. Thats a fun score!

Harold Faltermeyer - Tango & Cash

I LOVE the 2 main themes, and this was actually a holy grail score for me.... but sadly, apart from the themes, the score isn't really that interesting.

[Trent B 337]

David Arnold - Godzilla

I don't get how I can LOVE Stargate, ID4, and Tomorrow Never Dies, and NONE of Arnold's other stuff. This score just doesn't do anything for me.

It took me a while to get into Arnold's Godzilla score but once I did I love every minute of it. There's hints from Stargate and Independence Day through out the score and it's just pure awesome. Give it a bit more time and I'm sure you'll enjoy it more often as well.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

I listened to Heidi. The main theme is wonderful!

The Miracle is perhaps Williams' earliest mini masterpiece.

[Andy 4,122]

Trevor Jones - The Dark Crystal

You know, apart from the main theme, I just can't get into this score. Maybe if I see the movie some day...

I'm not quite sure why this is so beloved either. And while the movie is ambitious, the whole thing looks like a bunch of puppets looking for a story.

[Joe Brausam 214]

King of Kings

There is something about the Lord's Prayer melody, what beauty. It's a shame this score weren't for a better film.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I remembering getting the Speed 2 / Bad Boys composer promo 10+ years ago, mostly because of Bad Boys.... and ended up liking Speed 2 a lot more. Thats a fun score!

"Crashing Into The Island" is my favorite cue. Great sequel score.

[indy4 155]

Superman - The Movie:

A great, great score. The "Main Title March" is one of JW's greatest cues ever, I just love the build up to the theme that we don't quite get with the concert version. "The Planet Krypton" is also awesome (at least in the beginning), some of the most awe-inspiring music ever written. "Love Theme" is one of the greatest love themes ever written (Han Solo and the Princess is the only one to beat it), I love its variation in "Big Rescue" (which is a great action cue). The brass fanfares in "Destruction of Krypton" are absolutely orgasmic. And I love the Smallville theme to death. The only theme in the score that isn't really above average to me is "March of the Villains," a nice cue, but that's about it. I like the Hawaiian source music. Going in album order (Rhino Release), the score tends to drag a bit right after "Flying Sequence," but it picks up before the end. There is a bit of action music that almost sounds like JW on autopilot, ("Sonic Greeting"), but as I mentioned, it is just for a short spell in the score. "Can You Read My Mind" is awfully cheesy. The score's biggest problem is that part do tend to drag. For instance, cues like "Planet Krypton" are fantastic in the beginning, but everything after the trumpet/trombone lick is pretty much uninteresting. For that, I give it a 4/5 stars. But it really does contain some of John Williams' greatest moments.

[Trent B 337]

Superman - The Movie:

A great, great score. The "Main Title March" is one of JW's greatest cues ever, I just love the build up to the theme that we don't quite get with the concert version. "The Planet Krypton" is also awesome (at least in the beginning), some of the most awe-inspiring music ever written. "Love Theme" is one of the greatest love themes ever written (Han Solo and the Princess is the only one to beat it), I love its variation in "Big Rescue" (which is a great action cue). The brass fanfares in "Destruction of Krypton" are absolutely orgasmic. And I love the Smallville theme to death. The only theme in the score that isn't really above average to me is "March of the Villains," a nice cue, but that's about it. I like the Hawaiian source music. Going in album order (Rhino Release), the score tends to drag a bit right after "Flying Sequence," but it picks up before the end. There is a bit of action music that almost sounds like JW on autopilot, ("Sonic Greeting"), but as I mentioned, it is just for a short spell in the score. "Can You Read My Mind" is awfully cheesy. The score's biggest problem is that part do tend to drag. For instance, cues like "Planet Krypton" are fantastic in the beginning, but everything after the trumpet/trombone lick is pretty much uninteresting. For that, I give it a 4/5 stars. But it really does contain some of John Williams' greatest moments.

Which version did you listen to the old Rhino or the brilliant FSM version?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Superman - The Movie:

[sic] Going in album order (Rhino Release)[sic]

[indy4 155]

Yeah, it was the Rhino Release. Better sound quality isn't worth 120 bucks for me (as I haven't heard the other scores included).

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh, but indy4, those 120 Dollars would be spent on far more than just "better sound quality" (and pitch correction, if I heard correctly) and three other complete non-John Williams scores (not including the Ron Jones television scores)! The Blue Box comes complete with a nifty 160-page book that tells you everything you want to know about the scores and then some! How is that for nightstand reading? Buy your own Blue Box today!

This post was not endorsed by Michael Mattesino and all others associated with the production of Superman: The Music™

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I love that, "the old Rhino" as if to infer it's a piece of poo compared to the greatness of the FSM one.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yeah, it was the Rhino Release. Better sound quality isn't worth 120 bucks for me (as I haven't heard the other scores included).

Glad I'm not the only one. Nick, did you ever buy it?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I am honestly not sure if I should buy the Rhino release or the Blue Box. I have talked myself into and out of buying the Blue Box so many times, I lost count after the fifteenth time. I just cannot bring myself to spend so much money on one object, even when I want to....

I am reluctant to buy the Rhino release because I am reluctant to buy the Blue Box, and I heard that the Rhino release suffers from pitch issues and other shortcomings that I cannot seem to recall.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They're called audiophiles

[Red 75]

The Village

My favorite James Newton Howard score.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I am reluctant to buy the Rhino release because I am reluctant to buy the Blue Box, and I heard that the Rhino release suffers from pitch issues and other shortcomings that I cannot seem to recall.

The Rhino has always sounded fine to me. I'm sure the FSM does have better quality, as I believe it comes from sources not available for the Rhino, but I think the Rhino is still a great album.

As always, I would love to have the FSM Superman, but I'm not paying that much for it alongside four scores I really don't want. I understand it's the only way this could be done, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm not prepared to spend that amount of money for items I don't want.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

It is not so much the sound quality itself that I am worried about (having one useable ear makes a lot of things sound good), but the alleged pitch problems. Can anyone confirm if these issues are in fact true?

[Wojo 2,453]

I'm not a music genius, so if there are pitch problems on the Rhino Superman, they've never bothered me. I also can't bring myself to spend $120 for the Blue Box. I had no problem spending that much for all three LOTR CR's, and for my new computer I spent $150 just on the RAM, but I'd have to listen to the FSM Superman I to know if I liked it more than the Rhino, and Superman 2, 3, 4, and the TV show don't interest me.

[Ollie 1,059]

I was pleasantly suprised at the sound improvement the blue box has over the Rhino.

However, $120.00 is alot and if you aren't comfortable spending that much, keep the Rhino.

Now the Blue Box is worth every penny. You get Williams' score to the first film, you get both of Ken Thorne's scores to II & III. While II basically re-uses the first film's music and is performed by a much smaller orchestra, Ken Thorne did an outstanding job of arranging, changing the tempo and using one of Williams' alternate cues for the 3 villians.

Superman III is bit more lighthearted but it allowed Thorne to compose a new score while still using some of Williams' music.

The highlight of the box set is Alexander Courage's score to Superman IV, which features 3 new themes composed by Williams. This is a brand new score and not just a re-hash of material. Courage also did some slight alterations to March Of The Villians.

You also get Ron Jones' music to the animated cartoon from the late 80's that used Williams' main theme.

And if that's not enough you get almost all of the source music composed for the films as well as the dreadful songs that appeared on the original Superman III album.