Philosopher's Stone vs. Prisoner of Azkaban

[Nick Parker 3,040]

For example, certain portions of The Quidditch Match are reminiscent of the action writing in Jurassic Park

There is that motif that's practically identical to one in The Lost World, yes. I'll give you that one.

Which one? That ominous one that would be (I apologize to anyone who is musically informed): E, F#, G, and then E in the next octave? Or the "Lost World Theme"?

[Datameister 2,037]

No, not that one. It's a fast motif, probably in 6/8. I dunno what key, but if it were in C minor, there'd be a bunch of repeated Cs followed by C - Eb - D - D - F - Eb - G - C...rinse and repeat. It's almost exactly identical between scores...I was rather disappointed when I found the similarity.

[indy4 155]

Josh, I cannot agree more and I am glad to see there are people around that actually PS think it's one of JW's masterpieces. I get chills everytime I listen to this score.

I count both PS and POA among Williams' masterpieces. And I can't decide which one is "better".

Same here. If anything, I'd pick PoA to be better, but it's tough.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

EDIT: In response to Joe

Hm, I do not think I remember that one....

Could you post some Tracks that utilize it?

[Datameister 2,037]

Hm, I do not think I remember that one....Could you post some Tracks that utilize it?

Certainly. Check out 3:45 in "The Quidditch Match" from Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone and compare it to 3:28 in "Ludlow's Demise", from The Lost World. Same motif, almost exactly.

Again, however, I don't subscribe to the theory that HP:SS is mostly self-plagiarism. I think it's a delightful score with a lot of originality, which is why I voted for it.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh, that one! Well, I do not have the Harry Potter score to compare, but I would not be surprised if it was indeed used! By the way, "Ludlow's Demise" was replaced with tracked music from "The Lost World Theme" in the film, right?

[Datameister 2,037]

Yep, the similarity is extremely apparent. I don't think anyone with functioning ears would be able to deny it. I don't know about the cue being replaced by tracked music, though. Haven't seen the film in a while.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Dang it, Joe. I put the CD in the stereo to see what you were talking about, and now you got me listening to the whole score....

[Datameister 2,037]

Nice.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

Rumours of Ludlow's demise have been greatly exaggerated. Either that, or he was running around as a zombie for years. With that motif, Williams must have been trying to reach Horner's level. Find it in Minority Report, too.

[Josh500 1,615]

The Chess Game is reminiscent of the battle scenes from TPM.

Couldn't disagree more. Do you think you could provide some specific examples? I'm the first to admit when I'm proven wrong.

If you compare Chess Track with the Battle Preparation music from TPM Ultimate Edition, the similarity is noticeable.

However, I don't think that's necessarily bad.

Again, however, I don't subscribe to the theory that HP:SS is mostly self-plagiarism. I think it's a delightful score with a lot of originality, which is why I voted for it.

Yes!

[Datameister 2,037]

If you compare Chess Track with the Battle Preparation music from TPM Ultimate Edition, the similarity is noticeable.

However, I don't think that's necessarily bad.

That's not a track name in the TPM UE, though... =/ If you're talking about the percussive cue for the marching Gungans, I'd say the similarity is extremely superficial. A lot of pieces use percussion. Doesn't mean they're particularly similar.

[Josh500 1,615]

If you compare Chess Track with the Battle Preparation music from TPM Ultimate Edition, the similarity is noticeable.

However, I don't think that's necessarily bad.

That's not a track name in the TPM UE, though... =/ If you're talking about the percussive cue for the marching Gungans, I'd say the similarity is extremely superficial. A lot of pieces use percussion. Doesn't mean they're particularly similar.

No, I don't mean that. I forgot the name of the track, but there is one passage that sounds very similar...

I have to check that again.

[MSM 126]

The Chess Game is reminiscent of the battle scenes from TPM.

Couldn't disagree more. Do you think you could provide some specific examples? I'm the first to admit when I'm proven wrong.

If you compare Chess Track with the Battle Preparation music from TPM Ultimate Edition, the similarity is noticeable.

However, I don't think that's necessarily bad.

Again, however, I don't subscribe to the theory that HP:SS is mostly self-plagiarism. I think it's a delightful score with a lot of originality, which is why I voted for it.

Yes!

I also think JW really captured a 'British' atmosphere with his themes for PS. It's probably a matter of taste after all. I personally don't really like the medieval sound of POA. But honestly I would have expected PS to win this poll because it is more like old JW school writing (at least orchestration wise).

[Jacob 0]

For example, certain portions of The Quidditch Match are reminiscent of the action writing in Jurassic Park

There is that motif that's practically identical to one in The Lost World, yes. I'll give you that one.

Not familiar with Lost World but I always thought the start of Quidditch Match and the bit from Eye to Eye (from Jurassic Park) starting at 3:02 were quite similar.

[QMM 4]

SS is fantastic, but I listen to POA more so I'm not sure what to vote for.

[Jessie Lohner 0]

The Chess Game is reminiscent of the battle scenes from TPM.

Couldn't disagree more. Do you think you could provide some specific examples? I'm the first to admit when I'm proven wrong.

If you compare Chess Track with the Battle Preparation music from TPM Ultimate Edition, the similarity is noticeable.

However, I don't think that's necessarily bad.

Again, however, I don't subscribe to the theory that HP:SS is mostly self-plagiarism. I think it's a delightful score with a lot of originality, which is why I voted for it.

Yes!

I also think JW really captured a 'British' atmosphere with his themes for PS. It's probably a matter of taste after all. I personally don't really like the medieval sound of POA. But honestly I would have expected PS to win this poll because it is more like old JW school writing (at least orchestration wise).

Is it British music? I don't know, I don't thnik so.

It's magical music, in any case.

[Datameister 2,037]

I don't know why, but something about it feels rather British to me, too, albeit not in the overt way that the British music from TOD does, for instance.

[Jessie Lohner 0]

I don't know why, but something about it feels rather British to me, too, albeit not in the overt way that the British music from TOD does, for instance.

I think only the Hogwart March (is that the name?) sounds a bit British. But not the rest.

[Josh500 1,615]

I don't know why, but something about it feels rather British to me, too, albeit not in the overt way that the British music from TOD does, for instance.

That's just one little theme! If it had been Americans that had come to the rescue, it would have sounded American, I'm sure...

I don't think HP: SS sounds especially British. Except for the Christmas ghosts all whining in British accents, of course.

[Datameister 2,037]

That's just one little theme!

I never said anything to the contrary...

If it had been Americans that had come to the rescue, it would have sounded American, I'm sure...

Yes, because Maestro Williams would have written it in a way that sounded American.

[Josh500 1,615]

Yes, because Maestro Williams would have written it in a way that sounded American.

Hmmm, for me it just sounds like heroic, military music... maybe slightly comedic, over-the-top.

Couldn't tell whether it was American or British music if I had heard it out of context, I'm sure. But then... I'm not an expert in British music. So you could be right.

[Jay 37,323]

I don't know why, but something about it feels rather British to me, too, albeit not in the overt way that the British music from TOD does, for instance.

I think only the Hogwart March (is that the name?) sounds a bit British. But not the rest.

It's used as a Gryffindor theme, so that's what I called it. But it is the basis of the "Hogwarts Forever!" concert arrangement

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Rumours of Ludlow's demise have been greatly exaggerated. Either that, or he was running around as a zombie for years. With that motif, Williams must have been trying to reach Horner's level. Find it in Minority Report, too.

LOL, you can find it in every action score post-TLW, and possibly in some drama scores too

I'm glad that at least AOTC and ROTS renditions are 10 seconds snippets.

If you compare Chess Track with the Battle Preparation music from TPM Ultimate Edition, the similarity is noticeable.

However, I don't think that's necessarily bad.

That's not a track name in the TPM UE, though... =/ If you're talking about the percussive cue for the marching Gungans, I'd say the similarity is extremely superficial. A lot of pieces use percussion. Doesn't mean they're particularly similar.

No, I don't mean that. I forgot the name of the track, but there is one passage that sounds very similar...

I have to check that again.

IIRC It sounded like Mars the Bringer of War, more balantly than any Star Wars cue

[Datameister 2,037]

LOL, you can find it in every action score post-TLW, and possibly in some drama scores too

I'm glad that at least AOTC and ROTS renditions are 10 seconds snippets.

Which cues or tracks use that motif? I've never noticed any appearances of it in those, nor in TPM.

IIRC It sounded like Mars the Bringer of War, more balantly than any Star Wars cue

Both use a minor-key 5/4 ostinato at a similar tempo for part of the piece, and both militantly put more emphasis on brass and percussion than strings and woodwinds, but that's about as far as the similarity goes. "The Chess Game" isn't a Mars ripoff in the way that several Gladiator cues are. My favorite part of the cue is the drum break in the middle, which sounds unlike anything else I've heard before. The sparse use of the rest of the orchestra during those passages helps, too.

EDIT: But yeah, it's really ridiculous how so many people claim Star Wars is all taken from "The Planets." There's one statement of the main theme from Uranus near the end of ROTJ, and ANH's Imperial motif (which is only heard in that film) is similar to a melody from Mars, and there are passages that consist of dissonant, rhythmic, tutti chords, rather like the end of Mars...but all of that combined amounts to a very small percentage of the music in the saga.

[MSM 126]

I don't know why, but something about it feels rather British to me, too, albeit not in the overt way that the British music from TOD does, for instance.

I think only the Hogwart March (is that the name?) sounds a bit British. But not the rest.

Best example is just Harry's Theme in Harry's Wondrous World. It has the certain elegant majesty of Vaughan Williams.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

LOL, you can find it in every action score post-TLW, and possibly in some drama scores too

I'm glad that at least AOTC and ROTS renditions are 10 seconds snippets.

Which cues or tracks use that motif? I've never noticed any appearances of it in those, nor in TPM.

TPM does not have it (the exception that confirms the rule )

AOTC: Love Pledge and the Arena 4:43

ROTS: If you have an expanded Heroes collide, after Yoda's Fall and defeat in the senate chamber we cut to Anakin and obi wan jump and duel on top of some piepes over the lava about 0:23 seconds after the Yoda scene.

[Datameister 2,037]

AOTC: Love Pledge and the Arena 4:43

Nope...it's fairly similar, but its roots are entirely different. Compare it to the main theme that Williams develops throughout much of that track...it's just a faster, repetitive version of the first part of it. It's a similar sort of musical idea, but I wouldn't go so far as to call that another use of the same one.

ROTS: If you have an expanded Heroes collide, after Yoda's Fall and defeat in the senate chamber we cut to Anakin and obi wan jump and duel on top of some piepes over the lava about 0:23 seconds after the Yoda scene.

Bull. Sorry, but I'm intimately familiar with that ostinato - you can even hear me play it in

- and it's very, very different.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hm, I do not think I remember that one....Could you post some Tracks that utilize it?

Certainly. Check out 3:45 in "The Quidditch Match" from Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone and compare it to 3:28 in "Ludlow's Demise", from The Lost World. Same motif, almost exactly.

You know, I listened to those portions last night and you're right! They're extremely similar. I know both pieces quite well, but I never noticed that before... maybe because, usually, when I'm that far into those tracks, my mind is filled with either Quidditch or T-Rex.

Still, I don't think that's a bad thing. In fact, I quite like it! Maybe, if we looked hard enough, we might find that same motif still elsewhere...

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

AOTC: Love Pledge and the Arena 4:43

Nope...it's fairly similar, but its roots are entirely different. Compare it to the main theme that Williams develops throughout much of that track...it's just a faster, repetitive version of the first part of it. It's a similar sort of musical idea, but I wouldn't go so far as to call that another use of the same one.

ROTS: If you have an expanded Heroes collide, after Yoda's Fall and defeat in the senate chamber we cut to Anakin and obi wan jump and duel on top of some piepes over the lava about 0:23 seconds after the Yoda scene.

Bull. Sorry, but I'm intimately familiar with that ostinato - you can even hear me play it in

- and it's very, very different.

Maybe The Arena 'theme' is so much rooted in Williams modern action music that well the whole thing is somewhat a derivative of Ludlow's demise...

The ROTS part... mmm maybe the similarity if with a part from Andreton's Great Escape (0:28 and on) and that cue is heavily rooted in Ludlow. I think this ostinato is used by illiams like his flute flourises, and Ludlows demise also has it or at least in TLW.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Another fantastic unreleased HP1 cue is the wand shop. What a magical scene.

[Datameister 2,037]

It's not bad, but not my favorite unreleased cue from the film. It starts out sounding a little too much like a parody of itself for my tastes. ::listens:: Yeah, definitely not bad at all, though. I like the English horn variation on that cue's little theme. And it contains the first statements of Voldemort's theme, n'est-ce pas? Those are pretty good, too. I still prefer the next cue, though, which I refer to as "Dark Times."

[Josh500 1,615]

Another fantastic unreleased HP1 cue is the wand shop. What a magical scene.

Yes!

I want the REAL "Entry into the Great Hall" music more...

[Datameister 2,037]

Me too, although it's fairly clean on the DVD rip, and the sound quality is great.