Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets

[Henry B 49]

Ross should have been the co-composer.

Somehow, I think that would have been even more embarrassing...

I mean, why else wasn't he "allowed" to write anything?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Williams would not have personally selected Ross as a collaborator if he didn't think he knew what he was doing. Ross is an accomplished composer in his own right.

You make me laugh.

So why DID he not compose new music then if he is so accomplished?

I can just imagine it. Williams hires Ross as a co-composer for Chamber of Secrets. Everything is going well until Ross stumbles into Williams' office one day, drunk as a sailor, and tosses a scrap of paper onto the desk. "Durrrrr, hi John," he says, "I wrote you some really good musics!" Williams takes a look at the manuscript: it's nothing but random squiggles and dots. Disgusted, he revokes Ross's composing privileges and makes him sleep in the doghouse. Williams ponders what to do. Could he simply fire Ross and bring on one of his trusted orchestrators or past collaborators? John Neufeld? Alexander Courage? "No," says Williams resolutely, "Ross will stay. He may be a talentless sub-human without the slightest inclination toward composition, but he can at least effortlessly adapt my music for the previous film and embellish it so organically that many will mistake his writing for my own for years to come." Williams makes a call to director Chris Columbus and emphatically explains that Ross should receive full credit for his work and have his name on the front cover of the soundtrack album. He then gazes out the window at Ross, who is sitting in the yard and giggling (perhaps he has found a worm to play with). "He may not be good enough for dish washing or brick laying," Williams muses, "but he's good enough for adapting."

[Nick Parker 3,017]

Oh boy, Henry. That was funny.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

In all seriousness though, anyone who's questioning Ross' own individual merits should check out My Dog Skip and Tuck Everlasting, two lovely scores.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

Ross' contribution to this score is nil.

[Henry B 49]

Not true.

[Datameister 1,394]

Regardless of who wrote it, it's by and large based very directly on a score that John Williams wrote, with several new themes of debatable quality that Ross claims were written by Williams. Those are the facts, to the best of my understanding. Can't we just move on?

[indy4 152]

And I'm sorry but the AOTC bit is just embarrasing and lazy. People here always get defensive when someone says Williams's action cues all sound the same lately and could be interchangeable, yet even Williams seems to think so himself as apparently the music for two futuristic speeders chasing each other though buildings is also good enough to score a game with wizards riding broomsticks. Besides if he was going to use music from Star Wars he might as well have gone to better scores and just score the whole damn scene with "Here they come" or "The Asteroid Field", it would have made just as much sense.

Lazy? The whole reason AotC was used was because JW was juggling 4 different films that year. We're lucky he even scored CoS (and possibly PoA).

[Ollie 859]

I don't understand all the confusion.

Williams was had a full schedule, Warner Bros wanted him to return, Williams agreed but would not be able to score the whole film, so he composed roughly 50 minutes of new material, he recommended Williams Ross to help, Ross adapted and arranged the rest of the score from the new material as well as music from the first HP film to fit COS. It would make sense Ross might have to "compose" some small additional material to fit in with the film once they got to the actual scoring sessions. It's also quite possible Williams composed some new material that did not make the CD because it was "inspired" by prior works and Williams felt it would't be proper to release.

Nowhere was it ever stated that William Ross composed a bunch of original music for the film. Only some delusional members came up with that wacky theory.

Sometimes it is what it is and not some ridiculous conspiracy theory.

Truthfully Williams should have just provided some new themes and Ross should have taken those, as well as the themes from the first film, and composed a new score using the provided material.

[John Crichton 4]

Can't we just move on?

We've never been able to before, why start now?

[indy4 152]

Can't we just move on?

It's not the JWFan way!

[Josh500 1,602]

I can just imagine it. Williams hires Ross as a co-composer for Chamber of Secrets. Everything is going well until Ross stumbles into Williams' office one day, drunk as a sailor, and tosses a scrap of paper onto the desk. "Durrrrr, hi John," he says, "I wrote you some really good musics!" Williams takes a look at the manuscript: it's nothing but random squiggles and dots. Disgusted, he revokes Ross's composing privileges and makes him sleep in the doghouse. Williams ponders what to do. Could he simply fire Ross and bring on one of his trusted orchestrators or past collaborators? John Neufeld? Alexander Courage? "No," says Williams resolutely, "Ross will stay. He may be a talentless sub-human without the slightest inclination toward composition, but he can at least effortlessly adapt my music for the previous film and embellish it so organically that many will mistake his writing for my own for years to come." Williams makes a call to director Chris Columbus and emphatically explains that Ross should receive full credit for his work and have his name on the front cover of the soundtrack album. He then gazes out the window at Ross, who is sitting in the yard and giggling (perhaps he has found a worm to play with). "He may not be good enough for dish washing or brick laying," Williams muses, "but he's good enough for adapting."

And I'm sorry but the AOTC bit is just embarrasing and lazy.

Lazy? The whole reason AotC was used was because JW was juggling 4 different films that year. We're lucky he even scored CoS (and possibly PoA).

Diego has no idea! JW probably had more work to do in that 1 year than Diego ever will in his whole life!

Regardless of who wrote it, it's by and large based very directly on a score that John Williams wrote, with several new themes of debatable quality that Ross claims were written by Williams. Those are the facts, to the best of my understanding.

No, the fact is Williams did write ALL the music. WR just "arranged" and conducted the whole shebang.

Can't we just move on?

No, NEVER!!!!!!

In all seriousness though, anyone who's questioning Ross' own individual merits should check out My Dog Skip and Tuck Everlasting, two lovely scores.

You know, I have no doubts that WR is an accomplished and talented composer.

But you can't call him "accomplished and talented," in relation to JW!

[Jay 27,216]

4 stars, I love the whole score and the album gets played a lot. The new themes are really, really good

What I HATE though is that the Stone's Motif from the first movie was brought back and used when characters talk about the chamber. The AMAZING "Chamber Of Secrets" theme should have been used in all those instances instead!!!

I'm also not sure about using the flying theme for the Crab and Doyle sequence, but in the end, the music is great on its own, so I don't fret too much

[Luke Skywalker 1,284]

Nowhere was it ever stated that William Ross composed a bunch of original music for the film. Only some delusional members came up with that wacky theory.

Sometimes it is what it is and not some ridiculous conspiracy theory.

Member Hellgi, allegedly Ross' assistant, said that Ross composed original music on his own.

[Ollie 859]

What I'm talking about occured well before Hellgi posted and yes he did mention that Ross did do some composing but I believe it was some minor stuff like I mentioned in my full post.

[Henry B 49]

Regardless of who wrote it, it's by and large based very directly on a score that John Williams wrote, with several new themes of debatable quality that Ross claims were written by Williams. Those are the facts, to the best of my understanding.

No, the fact is Williams did write ALL the music. WR just "arranged" and conducted the whole shebang.

So define "arrange." You said you prefer the expanded, more triumphant ending to "Reunion of Friends." That was entirely Ross's work.

[Josh500 1,602]

Regardless of who wrote it, it's by and large based very directly on a score that John Williams wrote, with several new themes of debatable quality that Ross claims were written by Williams. Those are the facts, to the best of my understanding.

No, the fact is Williams did write ALL the music. WR just "arranged" and conducted the whole shebang.

So define "arrange." You said you prefer the expanded, more triumphant ending to "Reunion of Friends." That was entirely Ross's work.

"Arrange" means simply putting existing music in its new proper context... I do not think WR himself wrote anything of note. Maybe he wrote a few notes to combine cues that were written by JW for SS, but thats it.

[indy4 152]

Well there's two types of arrange in this case. There's the arranging of themes that JW wrote previously, in which case it would be possible for WR to have written "Reunion of Friends." Then there's the arranging of actual material, in which case JW would write the actual material, and WR would just work on orchestration and stuff like that.

[Henry B 49]

Well, Josh, that's fine that you want to just decide how much Ross really did, but he specifically took credit for "Reunion of Friends." Yes, that's a fact. Even though you want to believe Ross didn't write anything of note, reality just doesn't agree with you!

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

3 stars

Good new themes, but the score takes a huge blow from having so much recycled material.

Come to think of it, I might actually knock off another half point for using recyclec material in places where the new themes would have been more than appropriate.

[Hlao-roo 388]

Ross should have been the co-composer.

Somehow, I think that would have been even more embarrassing...

I mean, why else wasn't he "allowed" to write anything?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Williams would not have personally selected Ross as a collaborator if he didn't think he knew what he was doing. Ross is an accomplished composer in his own right.

You make me laugh.

So why DID he not compose new music then if he is so accomplished?

I can just imagine it. Williams hires Ross as a co-composer for Chamber of Secrets. Everything is going well until Ross stumbles into Williams' office one day, drunk as a sailor, and tosses a scrap of paper onto the desk. "Durrrrr, hi John," he says, "I wrote you some really good musics!" Williams takes a look at the manuscript: it's nothing but random squiggles and dots. Disgusted, he revokes Ross's composing privileges and makes him sleep in the doghouse. Williams ponders what to do. Could he simply fire Ross and bring on one of his trusted orchestrators or past collaborators? John Neufeld? Alexander Courage? "No," says Williams resolutely, "Ross will stay. He may be a talentless sub-human without the slightest inclination toward composition, but he can at least effortlessly adapt my music for the previous film and embellish it so organically that many will mistake his writing for my own for years to come." Williams makes a call to director Chris Columbus and emphatically explains that Ross should receive full credit for his work and have his name on the front cover of the soundtrack album. He then gazes out the window at Ross, who is sitting in the yard and giggling (perhaps he has found a worm to play with). "He may not be good enough for dish washing or brick laying," Williams muses, "but he's good enough for adapting."

Brick laying can be pretty tricky, actually.

[Josh500 1,602]

Well there's two types of arrange in this case. There's the arranging of themes that JW wrote previously, in which case it would be possible for WR to have written "Reunion of Friends." Then there's the arranging of actual material, in which case JW would write the actual material, and WR would just work on orchestration and stuff like that.

There's no way WR wrote ANY part of Reunion. Maybe he did some marginal orchestration, but sure as hell not more.

This is so typical JW, it's almost a cliche. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind... or deaf, I guess.

[John Crichton 4]

Come to think of it, I might actually knock off another half point for using recyclec material in places where the new themes would have been more than appropriate.

*cough*Stone theme*cough*

[Josh500 1,602]

Well, Josh, that's fine that you want to just decide how much Ross really did, but he specifically took credit for "Reunion of Friends." Yes, that's a fact. Even though you want to believe Ross didn't write anything of note, reality just doesn't agree with you!

Give me a source.

Then I might believe it.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Come to think of it, I might actually knock off another half point for using recyclec material in places where the new themes would have been more than appropriate.

*cough*Stone theme*cough*

Case in point.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Well, Josh, that's fine that you want to just decide how much Ross really did, but he specifically took credit for "Reunion of Friends." Yes, that's a fact. Even though you want to believe Ross didn't write anything of note, reality just doesn't agree with you!

Give me a source.

Then I might believe it.

Ross' assistant, who occasionally posts here as "Hellgi."

[Josh500 1,602]

Well, Josh, that's fine that you want to just decide how much Ross really did, but he specifically took credit for "Reunion of Friends." Yes, that's a fact. Even though you want to believe Ross didn't write anything of note, reality just doesn't agree with you!

Give me a source.

Then I might believe it.

Ross' assistant, who occasionally posts here as "Hellgi."

And how do we know for sure if he really is what he claims to be?

(This is an honest question, I don't really know him.)

[Henry B 49]

How do we know for sure who you really are, Josh? Maybe you're actually John Williams and you're trying to cover up the truth about Chamber of Secrets. The cat's out of the bag, Johnny! We know you didn't write "Reunion of Friends" and we're going to make you burn. Burn slowly, oh yes, ee-hee-hee-hee!

[Josh500 1,602]

How do we know for sure who you really are, Josh? Maybe you're actually John Williams and you're trying to cover up the truth about Chamber of Secrets. The cat's out of the bag, Johnny! We know you didn't write "Reunion of Friends" and we're going to make you burn. Burn slowly, oh yes, ee-hee-hee-hee!

Wow, I always thought you were a little weird, but I never realized you were actually insane!

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Could someone just dig up a link to the last CoS War so Josh can go read it?

I'm too lazy do it myself right now.

[Docteur Qui 1,248]

Well there's two types of arrange in this case. There's the arranging of themes that JW wrote previously, in which case it would be possible for WR to have written "Reunion of Friends." Then there's the arranging of actual material, in which case JW would write the actual material, and WR would just work on orchestration and stuff like that.

There's no way WR wrote ANY part of Reunion. Maybe he did some marginal orchestration, but sure as hell not more.

This is so typical JW, it's almost a cliche. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind... or deaf, I guess.

Maybe that's why people think JW didn't write it, because it is so typical JW and an adapter would try harder to accomplish this than Williams himself.

[Josh500 1,602]

Could someone just dig up a link to the last CoS War so Josh can go read it?

I'm too lazy do it myself right now.

I just want a link to a (reliable) source!

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Try the search function.

I can't be arsed today.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Here's where Hellgi discusses "Reunion of Friends."

And pages 5-8 of that thread are where he gave us a lot of info, including cue names, orchestrators, and scoring notes.

[Datameister 1,394]

You know, after re-listening to Ross' ending to that cue, I really can't complain about it. Outside of the movie, it really is just a lovely ending to the cue. I think I'll always favor the original, but it might have gone the other way if the COS version had come first.

[Marian Schedenig 5,520]

The concert piece The Chamber of Secrets alone guarantees 3-5 stars for the score, and since the rest is fine, too, I'll give it 4. Lots of stuff in it I like a lot and nothing I dislike (The Flying Car being my least favourite, I find it too overblown).

[Ollie 859]

I'll just repeat what I posted in that particular thread:

I think the answers have been given and people don't want to listen.

I'm satisfied, not that I really care that much, that the original explanation given is and was valid.

[Josh500 1,602]

The concert piece The Chamber of Secrets alone guarantees 3-5 stars for the score, and since the rest is fine, too, I'll give it 4. Lots of stuff in it I like a lot and nothing I dislike (The Flying Car being my least favourite, I find it too overblown).

If it were JUST the concert pieces, it would be a definite 5 for me.

Well, The Flying Car may be overblown, but it's an overblown scene. So it's quite fitting, IMO.

Here's where Hellgi discusses "Reunion of Friends."

And pages 5-8 of that thread are where he gave us a lot of info, including cue names, orchestrators, and scoring notes.

Hmmm, OK I accept that (with a grain of salt).

Still, it doesn't change the fact that all the melodies/themes that were used in Reunion are JW's compositions. WR just arranged them to fit the scene.