Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Every few days I will post a thread on a random score from my collection that we can discuss and rate. I made a playlist on my computer with one track of each score I've got, so by using the random play option, I'll be able to post a truly random score each time. Hopefully this will allow us to discuss some scores that would otherwise never be discussed. Also we can record the rating so that we can create a full list of the ratings given to scores by JWFan.com.Today's score is Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire by Joel McNeely. Are you familiar with it? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? How do do you think it works in the film? What are your favourite tracks?So far JWFan has rated:See Soundtrack Ratings by JWFan.com.This web page contains the ratings from all my previous polls as well as those of Blumenkohl's.Final ratings are converted to a 1-10 rating for both rating systems so that they can be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 4.5 stars. I actually prefer this over Williams' Prequel scores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Great music. But it's short running time gives me a feeling that it's only a sampler of a larger work.4,5 stars.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 It's the soundtrack to a book, how long does it need to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The book has many other sequences worth "scoring", I think. A 70-minute CD would flesh out themes better, I think.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm sure it was a budget issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 And time pressure too. The only SW album that really works for me at the 45-minute running time is Gerhardt's version of TESB. It is great how it manages to encapsulate the entire score.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ins 42 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 And time pressure too. [...]KarolWe had a topic about this here a while ago. If I recall correctly Neely stated he wrote the score in a hotel in about 2 weeks. Amazing result for this constraint time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Five stars. Why McNeely is disappointed with it is beyond me! "The Imperial City" is a musical world in of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_vader 533 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I gave it a 4 stars, it doesn't quite deserve the 4.5 spot. I really do enjoy it a lot, but its not quite as good as Williams Prequel Trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neimoidian 14 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 5 stars. It's more impressive than John's last two SW scores, IMO. The only thing it lacks for me is a "credits" suite at the end. I would love to hear such thing - it'd be spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hmmm, I think the finale is spectacular enough as it is. What could you possibly follow that up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Books do not have End Titles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm afraid I'm not familiar with it (yet), but I do have a lot of respect for McNeely and everyone else who contributed to the idea of a book score. I'd always thought that'd be cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Books do not have End Titles!And few have scores.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 That is not the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm getting senile, I thought we already did this one?With all these damn polls, not you Pieter, I'm losing track of what we've discussed.But I give it 4 stars, not bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I give it Four Stars as well. However, I will also opine that I think Joel McNeely is overrated, especially when it comes to re-recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Peio says he's a great conductor of Herrmann's work, so that means you are....wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 McNeely is excellent when it comes to the Herrmann re-recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I am honestly not all too familiar with his Herrmann re-recordings. In fact, I am not all too familiar with Hermmann out side of Vertigo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Four stars. Some incredible music, and nice to see very little reliance on the existing themes. Only one that doesn't work for me is 'The Battle of Gall', but 'Night Skies', 'Imperial City' and 'Destruction of Xizor's Palace' are standouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 EDIT: I have no idea how I managed to double-post like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,177 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm pretty sure we've done it already. And it's not as good as any of the Williams scores.I'm afraid I'm not familiar with it (yet), but I do have a lot of respect for McNeely and everyone else who contributed to the idea of a book score. I'd always thought that'd be cool...I still say it's not a soundtrack. It's a tone poem, which is fine, but it's not a new concept at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I believe there was some talk about Williams scoring Zahn's trilogy when it came out in 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Yes, I think there was. If I remember correctly, John Williams refused, but personally recommended Joel McNeely for this score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I am honestly not all too familiar with his Herrmann re-recordings. In fact, I am not all too familiar with Hermmann out side of Vertigo....So your comment was a bunch of crap?Wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Stop mocking me! When I made the comment, I was thinking of Jaws, the Batman Trilogy, and Out of Africa in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Kick a man when he's down...kick him hard.Then piss on him....That's what I was taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 What kinds of schools do they have over there!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm from the University Of Life, and got many degrees there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 schools that make you a man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 McNeeley has captured a certain aspect or emotion which you can't find on any of the prequel albums.Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 That's why I prefer it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 4.5 stars for me. This is truly a solid score and Joel McNeely did an awesome job on it for sure. I too sometimes wish it had been a bit longer. This is one CD I did have before I moved from Vegas, it's one I still have not re-bought yet but need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I am honestly not all too familiar with his Herrmann re-recordings. In fact, I am not all too familiar with Hermmann out side of Vertigo....Which received absolutely one of the best re-recordings out there conducted by McNeely.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm getting senile, I thought we already did this one?With all these damn polls, not you Pieter, I'm losing track of what we've discussed.Not in my or Blumenkohl's series as far as I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 McNeeley has captured a certain aspect or emotion which you can't find on any of the prequel albums.AlexWhile there is no denying the fact SOTE is a stronger album to listen than any of the prequels, I think this comparison is a bit unfair. Had McNeely scored these it would have been still endless transition shots, people walking corridors and talking. The tracking would be still there. He wouldn't come up with something more interesting than Williams. As much as I love SOTE, it wouldn't serve the film with the same title well. Or most of it, at least. As a pure music it's great. Imagine Williams doing tone poem like this. I bet it wouldn't sound like his prequel music.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Shadows of the Empire is a pretty dumb book. That McNeely drew so much inspiration from it baffles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 With the exception of Zahn's trilogy most of the EU is rather silly.Sometimes I find reading over watching can give one more inspiration because you're allowed to visualize it on your own terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Peio says he's a great conductor of Herrmann's work, so that means you are....wrong!I was very impressed with his conducting skills last year in the concert. Accurate and expressive, something I can't say about the stiff style of Broughton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 With the exception of Zahn's trilogy most of the EU is rather silly.For me, while a good read, Zahn's trilogy has the same problem as Darabont's version of the Indy 4.It was written on the knees, with too much of it being just mirror images from the Star Wars films. Too much direct quotes and such. His later novels (like Hand of Thrawn) don't have this problem. It is its own thing.Which doesn't change the fact most of SW novels are crap.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neimoidian 14 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Books do not have End Titles!Nor main titles, but it's not the point. A closing suite would fit the album well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Books do not have End Titles!Nor main titles, but it's not the point. A closing suite would fit the album well.The score, is not exactly for the book. (even if the state that in the liner notes)Shadows is a Star Wars full work...without a movie. I has everything it would have had.They could have used an end credit suite.I cant believe many people put this work above the whole John Williams prequels.Its great music, but i hear some Williams passages rip offs and 'fake' Williasmisms that is the fault of many imitators of Williams.There is some genial work, like hinting Han solo and the princess in 'Princess leia's seduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,090 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hmmm... Am I missing something with this? No way is this up there with the rest of Williams' SW scores. It sounds like he had two weeks to compose it to me. What thematic material there is, isn't very strong. For my ears, it tends to meander around more than it resonates. I prefer the close miked recording style of the OT to this concert hall sound as well. I keep it for completism purposes, but I can't give it more than 2 stars. You've all inspired me to listen again however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 For the most part, it does not remind me much of John Williams or Star Wars music, but to me that is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 4 stars. But for non-film SW scores I still prefer both Knights of the Old Republic scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I still need to listen to those outside of the games.... How hard is it for LucasArts to release the soundtracks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 It would seem so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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