pixie_twinkle 37 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 3.5This is a lovely score, but hardly the masterpiece some claim it to be. I sometimes wonder what Williams fans would think of this score if Williams hadn't claimed it was one of his favourites. My guess is that it would be nearer to 3.5/5. Link to post Share on other sites
Incanus 5372 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 3.5This is a lovely score, but hardly the masterpiece some claim it to be. I sometimes wonder what Williams fans would think of this score if Williams hadn't claimed it was one of his favourites. My guess is that it would be nearer to 3.5/5.Why would Williams' personal affection for this score affect the opinion of the fans? I wasn't even aware that it was one of his favourite projects when I first heard this score and and I still loved it from the first note. Link to post Share on other sites
Ollie 814 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I never knew it was one of his favorites when I bought it. Of course that was before the internet really took off.Although I've never heard/seen it quoted directly from Williams. I know CE3K is a favorite of his. Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Penna 1432 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Me too, I didn't know that either. I just absolutely adore the main theme, and most of the underscore is good, even though it sounds like it was recorded during the dark ages Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie Brigden 5 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 3.5This is a lovely score, but hardly the masterpiece some claim it to be. I sometimes wonder what Williams fans would think of this score if Williams hadn't claimed it was one of his favourites. My guess is that it would be nearer to 3.5/5.Nope, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
pixie_twinkle 37 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Blows raspberry! :cool: Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Parker 2990 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 3.5This is a lovely score, but hardly the masterpiece some claim it to be. I sometimes wonder what Williams fans would think of this score if Williams hadn't claimed it was one of his favourites. My guess is that it would be nearer to 3.5/5.Ah, so I now found the precise reason why so many consider Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom to be a terrible film.... Link to post Share on other sites
Taikomochi 649 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 You know, you TRY to be subtle...Obviously, I don't. :cool:I really love the final performage of Carriage Ride to Thornfield. Such a great composition. Link to post Share on other sites
Red 72 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I had no idea this score was one of Williams' favorites actually... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Breathmask 460 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I had never even heard that.I do know he's mentioned Close Encounters as being probably his favorite film work. Link to post Share on other sites
Marian Schedenig 3757 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 And that was also a favourite before I first read about his opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Penna 1432 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 There's proof I'm not affected by what JW likes the most... Link to post Share on other sites
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I had never even heard that.I do know he's mentioned Close Encounters as being probably his favorite film work.I don't know how it compares to Close Encounters in his mind (although I doubt such comparison even happens), but he was very very proud of it in the summer of 1977, when a reporter from Films and Filming asked him what his favorite own work was. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Breathmask 460 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ah, so he mentioned it over 30 years ago.Before he wrote countless other scores that might just as well have been more to his liking. Link to post Share on other sites
John Crichton 4 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Unfortunately it's become one of his many stock answers for interviews. Link to post Share on other sites
MrScratch 221 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 He also might have a fondness for Jane Eyre because of what was going on his life at the time and not necessarily the music itself. If I remember correctly didn't Williams compose the score in England? It may have just been a wonderful experience and the music reminds of it. Close Encounters is an obvious favorite because of its unique requirements on the composer and the role of the music in the movie. Link to post Share on other sites
Marian Schedenig 3757 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Unfortunately it's become one of his many stock answers for interviews.He probably doesn't even remember what it sounds like. Link to post Share on other sites
Ollie 814 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I can just picture Williams sitting at a piano trying to recall Jane Eyre's theme by playing notes..... "Yes Jane Eyre what a lovely theme. I'll play it for you.... oops hold on that's Jaws....here we go....no....Princess Leia's theme....wait I got it...what the hell is this??? Oh it's Born on the 4th.......Jane Eyre, Jane Eyre...hmmm.....dah dah da dadah...." Jurassic Shark 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Neimoidian 13 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have listened to it twice so far, so I really cannot rate it yet. But the theme itself is magnificent. And some claim it's KotCS that represents JW's mature sound at its best...! Link to post Share on other sites
Luke Skywalker 759 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Damn, dont listen to this score when you are emotionally down.It's like turning a faucet on.... Link to post Share on other sites
Incanus 5372 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Yes it tends to do that although I feel this score is not inherently sad, perhaps more lyrical, nostalgic and yearningly romantic. But on the bright side I also find it rather cathartic when I am down and listen to it. Link to post Share on other sites
indy4 152 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I give it 4 stars. Maybe 4.5 Link to post Share on other sites
Luke Skywalker 759 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Yes it tends to do that although I feel this score is not inherently sad, perhaps more lyrical, nostalgic and yearningly romantic. But on the bright side I also find it rather cathartic when I am down and listen to it.that is why i was emotionally down... Link to post Share on other sites
SeekUYoda 0 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I give it 5 - what's not to love? Link to post Share on other sites
Thor 4335 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yes, it's one of the clearest 6'es (we often use dice marks over here rather than 1-5) in the history of film scores. Link to post Share on other sites
Incanus 5372 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 It is truly one of the early classics from JW. Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Marc 401 Posted August 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 27, 2019 Such fantastic horn parts in this cue ! (3:30) Falstaft, SteveMc, Sibelius6 and 3 others 6 Link to post Share on other sites
crumbs 9513 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 How do we know the recording sessions are truly lost? Did they actually find the disintegrating tapes and discover they were beyond repair? Link to post Share on other sites
rough cut 945 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 It sent a postcard from the Caymans sayin’ “I’ll never come back... Goodbye forever! XX” Link to post Share on other sites
Yavar Moradi 824 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 On 8/27/2019 at 8:54 AM, crumbs said: How do we know the recording sessions are truly lost? Did they actually find the disintegrating tapes and discover they were beyond repair? All we know is that the LLL team (including Lukas Kendall, on this) searched high and low for tapes when they were pursuing their album, and sadly couldn't locate any. Yavar Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Parker 2990 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I haven't listened to a cue from this score in _years_, 'til that track above just now. Damn. Link to post Share on other sites
Incanus 5372 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 11 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: All we know is that the LLL team (including Lukas Kendall, on this) searched high and low for tapes when they were pursuing their album, and sadly couldn't locate any. Yavar Also it is extremely sad that no possible re-recording from original manuscripts is possible since the originals were declared a fire hazard by the insurance inspector along with many classic scores in the MGM music library in the 1970's and subsequently burned. Williams himself told in a Richard Dyer interview in 1990: Quote “Did you know that the whole great MGM music library is gone? Sometime in the ’70s, an insurance inspector came along and wondered what all that dangerous-looking yellow molding paper stuff was doing lying around, and it was destroyed — not only the orchestral scores like ‘Dr. Zhivago’ but also the great musicals. The only way they are preserved is on the sound tracks, and if you want to perform those arrangements, you have to listen to them and write them down. I had to do that myself when I wanted to pull out my music for ‘Jane Eyre’ for the Pops. It had been burned, so I just sat right here with the record and listened to it over and over and copied it by ear. Even last year when I wanted to do the fugue from ‘Jaws,’ I had to reconstruct it. So there’s a point to keeping all of this.” It is simply appalling that it was all done purposefully and not by accident. crumbs, Holko and SteveMc 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Thor 4335 Posted April 9 Popular Post Share Posted April 9 Here's an old 2011 article of mine, republished now - about the three JANE EYRE scores by Herrmann, Williams and Marianelli, respectively. It's in Norwegian, but I've already run it through Google Translate for you: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://celluloidtunes.no/fra-montages-arkivet-jane-eyre-og-plaget-musikalsk-romantikk/ GerateWohl, SteveMc and Romão 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Romão 1627 Posted April 9 Popular Post Share Posted April 9 Three great scores, among the finest for each composer. Something about this story seems to bring out the best in them Yavar Moradi, Thor and The Illustrious Jerry 3 Link to post Share on other sites
stravinsky 147 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Herrmann's Jane Eyre is wonderful. SteveMc 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bollemanneke 1934 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 I need to re-watch the 2011 movie. Will proably never bother with the Herrmann one. Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Guernsey 396 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 How much music is actually missing from the album? Link to post Share on other sites
May the Force be with You 688 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Don't know but I would appreciate a reissue with some more content Tom Guernsey and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Yavar Moradi 824 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 21 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: How much music is actually missing from the album? A lot. I did a complete breakdown with some notes but didn’t total up the unreleased music. I’ll share them here if you’d like to do the math. One important thing to point out: the album is an E.T. situation where half of it is special concert/album arrangements which do no appear in the film. Pieces recorded for the album only: Love Theme from Jane Eyre (track 1, concert arrangement), To Thornfield (track 4, unused action scherzo), Festivity at Thornfield (track 5, unused original party source music), Meeting (track 7, chamber arrangement of love theme), Restoration (track 10, album/concert arrangement of music for St. John) Yavar Edmilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Guernsey 396 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: A lot. I did a complete breakdown with some notes but didn’t total up the unreleased music. I’ll share them here if you’d like to do the math. One important thing to point out: the album is an E.T. situation where half of it is special concert/album arrangements which do no appear in the film. Pieces recorded for the album only: Love Theme from Jane Eyre (track 1, concert arrangement), To Thornfield (track 4, unused action scherzo), Festivity at Thornfield (track 5, unused original party source music), Meeting (track 7, chamber arrangement of love theme), Restoration (track 10, album/concert arrangement of music for St. John) Yavar Thanks! Guess I was secretly hoping it was one of those sparsely scored 70s things where there were just a few short cues... sounds like we won't get a fuller version of Jane Eyre unless someone wants to sit and transcribe it by ear one day. What a shame. Guess we'll just have to enjoy what we have. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Yavar Moradi 824 Posted April 10 Popular Post Share Posted April 10 Here is what I emailed to Jeff Commings when we were prepping for Episode 25 of his show The Baton, on Jane Eyre: Quote Sorry these notes are incomplete, but I think I did enough to select what I’d like to discuss from the film score. Can I ask which three cues you picked? I think we obviously have to discuss the main title first as it introduces several important themes. The unreleased cue I’d most like to bring up (and relatively free of FX and dialogue for a good portion) is what I called “The Meeting” (cue 8 in the film; different from album track of same title not used in the film). It’s an interesting different development of thematic material. the unreleased Lowood material from early in the score is also worth mentioning at least I think, though I understand if you don’t want to play it since there’s a lot of talking over it. Same goes for a lot of the other unreleased horror music that looks forward to Dracula. I guess my other pick to cover would be the two short St. John cues near the end of the film, because it’s an excellent theme that shouldn’t be omitted from our discussion, but which didn’t get fully developed in the film. I think it’d be interesting to play for listeners so they can contrast with the album concert arrangement they’re familiar with. And they are relatively light on dialogue... 0:03-4:14 1. Main Title (Overture) (album recording track 2, 3:58) Film has an ugly music edit at 2:51, but presumably a bit more music. First half minute introduces the mysterious long-lined (over 20 notes!) Rochester theme on harpsichord (most prominent in the album action cue To Thornfield), followed by an even more mysterious and ominous theme for the mystery of Thornfield itself led by a 7 note motif 29 sec in (25 of album recording), as the title “Jane Eyre” appears onscreen. At 1:04 (0:58 of album) a strident related motif grows out of this. Pay attention to how much Williams is doing with counterpoint here. At 1:35 (1:28 of album) the love theme is introduced, sounds as if it were something of a love child between a couple of themes in Nino Rita’s beloved score for Franco Zefirelli’s Romeo and Juliet a couple years before Around 2:11 (2:06 of album) love theme transitions to a bridge melody At 2:30 (2:26 of album) the strident 1:04-1:35material returns. Ugly edit/cut at 2:51, equivalent to 2:47-2:52 on album, right before return of 7 note mysterious Thornfield motif, and then back to a more subdued version of strident motif, and back to the Thornfield motif again as the cue winds down. 6:28-9:04 2. Deceitful “Let’s see who it is...” begins cue 9:56-10:54 3. Lowood (album recording track 3, 2:28) Film cue initially mixed so low you can barely tell it's there, and the cue cuts off abruptly just before a minute in. A new mysterious theme is introduced here in these two cues for Lowood, more subtle than any of the themes introduced in the Main Title. 12:44-14:37 4. Relics of Satan Hair forcibly cut, punished 17:57-19:04 5. Forever and Ever Childhood friend's death, and passing of time. 20:14-21:01 6. Thornfield Thornfield theme (2nd theme from Main Title) given further development as Jane approaches the manor. 24:44-25:27 7. Laughter Mysterious (almost horror) music with the Thornfield theme developed over threatening strings. 27:23-29:55 8. The Meeting First different development of main theme; good candidate to mention in podcast 33:16-33:56 9. Jane Plays The love theme played in-scene on solo piano by Jane. 35:06-36:03 10. Good Night 1 Further development of the main theme for Jane, and then the mysterious Thornfield theme. 41:39-42:14 11. Good Night 2 Threatening development of the Thornfield theme. 44:11-44:36 12. The Fire Another horror cue with the Thornfield theme. 46:17-47:42 13. Do Me Good Brief Thornfield mystery, then first proper appearance of the love theme on harpsichord, and then strings. 48:29-50:02 14. Flowers Love theme on woodwind, gets more intense near end. 51:14-53:29 First Dance 53:39-53:52 Second Dance 56:14-57:18 Youth's the Season Made for Joys (song from The Beggar's Opera) 57:30-58:41 Piano Source 59:54-62:21 15. Mason's Arrival 63:11-66:10 16. She Bit Me 68:58-71:08 17. The Proposal 72:26-73:30 18. The Veil 74:30-75:50 19. Thwarted Wedding Not sure this matches album cue 76:05-79:15 20. Bertha 82:50-85:09 21. She Still Lives 85:45-88:17 22. Across the Moors 89:23-91:06 23. St. John Shorter film cue used as basis for album "Restoration"; brief interlude for Jane/Rochester love theme as Jane remembers. 92:51-94:18 24. I Accept Second shorter film cue with St. John's theme, this time with a brief interlude with the mysterious Thornfield motive as her letter is returned, transitioning immediately afterwards to another in-film solo piano performance by Jane of her love theme with Rochester. 99:37-100:59 25. God Alone 101:15-102:37 26. The Tragedy 102:37-107:58 27. Reunion (End Title) Longer version of album cue (which starts at 103:16 and still seems to run shorter on album). Titles not on the album I made up; I’m pretty sure I didn’t have access to any cue sheet/title info. Yavar Edmilson, Tom Guernsey, May the Force be with You and 1 other 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
May the Force be with You 688 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Whaou that's exhaustive... Great job! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisAfonso 116 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 So that's 46:16 (including source music) of music in the film, if I calculated correctly... plus 14:43 of album-only cues, makes 60:59 total, of which 34:12 appear on the album, which leaves 26:47 of unreleased music. Link to post Share on other sites
Yavar Moradi 824 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 At minimum, but some cues are noticeable microedited/truncated in the film, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Williams wrote some cues that went unused both in the film and on album (we know “To Thornfield” which is on the album went unused in the film). Yavar Link to post Share on other sites
May the Force be with You 688 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 27 minutes ago, ChrisAfonso said: So that's 46:16 (including source music) of music in the film, if I calculated correctly... plus 14:43 of album-only cues, makes 60:59 total, of which 34:12 appear on the album, which leaves 26:47 of unreleased music. So a reissue is needed. #releaseJaneEyreExpandedEdition Link to post Share on other sites
Jurassic Shark 7136 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 6 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: "To Thornfield” which is on the album went unused in the film What's the point in watching the movie then? Link to post Share on other sites
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