Jump to content

The Quick Question Thread


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 5.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

That's the most profound thing I've seen all day!

What, do you mean this one?  

Killer main theme.    

6 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I have a couple of quick THE LORD OF THE RINGS

questions:

in THE RETURN OF THE KING If it withstood a spear attack, why couldn't Frodo's mithrill protect him against Shelob's stinger?

 

Shelob stung him in the neck, presumably above the mithril shirt.

 

6 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Also, is there any evidence to suggest that Bilbo ever wore The Ring after the events of The Hobbit?

 

Yes, he'd been using it occasionally over the years, mostly to evade the Sackville-Bagginses.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this isn't the best site to ask this, but I'm too lazy to try and recover other forum passwords.

 

Does anyone know how many times Neville Marriner recorded Handel's Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks? I'm trying t organise my music, but now have THREE water music performances that are supposedly all conducted by Marriner! Presto Music doesn't really help either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

I know this isn't the best site to ask this, but I'm too lazy to try and recover other forum passwords.

 

Does anyone know how many times Neville Marriner recorded Handel's Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks? I'm trying t organise my music, but now have THREE water music performances that are supposedly all conducted by Marriner! Presto Music doesn't really help either.

 

Marriner and the ASMF happen to be one of my absolute favourite classical performers.

 

I know at least four recordings they've done of Water Music. In chronological order: Decca, Philips, EMI, and Hänssler. 

 

For Music for the Royal Fireworks: same as above, excluding EMI.

 

These Decca recordings are rated very highly, and I agree about that for both works. The Hänssler recordings are more "modern" in approach, meaning they take inspiration from period performance recordings like Pinnock's, especially for the fireworks.

 

Marriner's Decca and Hänssler recordings are mandatory, and Pinnock's Archive recordings as well. Marriner's Philips and EMI recordings are good, but not essential.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Wow, thank you! I'm torn between exapseration as to why on earth we needed 4 recordings and excitement to find out which ones I have. Pinnock is great too indeed.

 

Marriner's recordings are a nice survey of how their performance practice changed over the decades.

 

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Wow, thank you! I'm torn between exapseration as to why on earth we needed 4 recordings and excitement to find out which ones I have. Pinnock is great too indeed.

 

Just wait until you get to his four Mozart horn concertos recordings... ;)

 

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I'm working my way through his Mozart symphonies, great too!

 

I guess you know he recorded them three times, in various degrees of completeness. In chronological order:

 

Decca: fits on two CDs. An emphasis on middle symphonies. Currently available on Australian Eloquence.

 

Philips: Complete, currently available in a cheap Eloquence box (without liner notes).

 

EMI: six albums of Mozart's more or less mature symphonies. The three first albums are out of print, and possibly the remainder as well. If you like to own stuff on physical media, I've got a spare set of the six original CD releases in mint condition. Let me know if you're interested - I'm glad to offer a fellow Marriner enthusiast a good deal.

 

Oh, I almost forgot: the symphony recordings on all three labels are excellent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No one need a complete box of Mozart's symphonies, only the last ones are worthy of interest!

 

The Late Symphonies by Bernstein and the Wiener Philh. are the only recordings you really need.

 

On Spotify, I did a chronological 22 volumes compilation of Mozart, with my favourite versions (I didn't put Operas in my compilation, as it's difficult to take only excerpts from them... and to be honest, I simply hate Opera).

 

 

 

If you want to hear inspired "early" Mozart, go for his "Salzburg Symphonies" (which are in fact Divertimenti). Written in 1772 (Mozart was 16), I moreover begin my compilation with them.  Who really believe baby Mozart wrote himself his first early early works? At the age of 16 he (or Daddy Leopold) had already composed what... 16 Symphonies??? Bullshit!

 

Mozart Horn Concerti, I love them... But I can't listen any other versions than the mythical Dennis Brain recordings. These historical recordings have a soul, I can't explain it otherwise!

 

 

If I remember well, Pinnock and His Bloke Menestrels use period instruments, Marriner use modern instruments.  So that explain why Pinnock sounds "dry" and Marriner "softer".  It's only a matter of taste.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 weeks later...

Well, some say Marriner is the best of both worlds. Historically informed (but not strictly) and lively playing on modern instruments. When it comes to to period instrument ensembles, their approach to playing varies wildly between ensembles. Some are very exaggerated, such as Il Giardino Armonico, while some tend to be on the stodgy side, such as Hogwood (although his Mozart cycle is among his better output), and sometimes Gardiner.

 

My favourite period instrument ensembles are Pinnock/TEC and Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin.

 

A good musical diet consists of both period and modern instrument ensembles.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Should MOzart be performed on period instruments? I'm not asking your opinion, I just want to know whether, historically speaking, are people like Marriner or Hogwood 'right'?

 

The factual part is that Mozart's works were obviously written, and at his time performed, on period instruments. So if you want maximum authenticity, that's obviously the way to go. Whether you want that or not is an opinion, although those who have studied these things may have more informed opinions than those of us who simply like listening to one or the other more - e.g. they may enjoy nuances that I'm not even aware of. An acquired taste is after all not an unusual thing when it comes to music, and learning more about music may very well give you reasons for preferring things you didn't like so much before.

 

In any case, the sounds and capabilities of instruments have changed considerably since then, also affecting the overall orchestral balance. Mahler's reorchestrations of works by Beethoven, Schumann, etc. were, as far as I know, at least partly done to account for these changes in balance and to restore the original/intended balance with the instruments of Mahler's own time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Should MOzart be performed on period instruments? I'm not asking your opinion, I just want to know whether, historically speaking, are people like Marriner or Hogwood 'right'?

Should Shakespeare be performed with men playing the female rolls? And with the actors having to compete against the noise of the crowd who shouted, hurled oranges and tried to join in with their performance on the stage as was the style of that Elizabethan era when they were introduced?   Should ancient texts be read in their original language since something gets lost in translation?  My opinion (yes, I know you specified not asking for opinion but you are getting it regardless) is that there is no definitive answer because the original ideas reveal something distinct that doesn't fully translate.  Meanwhile we can interpret their intentions given the limitations of their day and that is what contemporary interpretations seek to do.  There are millions of examples so let me give you a few why these represent options and not definitive versions.  Berlioz specified the Ophicleide in his monumental Symphony Fantastique which has a heavy debt to Beethoven and picks up where he left off (premiered 1830, just three years after Beethoven died).  Today, the ophicleide is never used.  It is replaced with a tuba or Euphonium which give the same sinister sound but are more responsive and have better intonation.  It keeps the qualities Berlioz sought but not the drawbacks. 

This is the Sackbut, the predecessor to the trombone.  As a trombonist, I love this instrument but even for me, it is hard to tell the difference between these and a contemporary instrument except that the instrument has evolved, is less temperamental, able to stay in tune better, etc.  This is analagous to the ancient instruments, they tent to have a slightly rawer edge and slightly less refined intonation that modern instruments improve upon. 

Wagner's Siegfried Idyll has the horn part transposed in E flat, C, D, etc., basically hardly every in F.  That is because he used the natural horn which could not play all scales so the player had to switch instruments or slides where today the modern double horn in F could play the entire work without needing to transpose.  These instruments evolved.  You will probably never hear the natural horns play this work because the modern horn can play the entire work without changing instruments.  This is an example of why performance practice triumphs over original notation.  They are doing what the composer means, not what they say.  BUT, there is also something unique and interesting to be gained by those willing to explore the work in its very original origin, flaws and all.  This is the same thing as reading the Bible in it's original ancient Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew for example.  No one speaks those languages.  99% of the idea comes across in modern translations but some seek to understand that small part that can't really be translated well.  That audience is the musical equivalent for period recordings.  Think of your question as learning old French to experience Victor Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre-Dame (1831) rather than reading it in English (or your native language).  It is true a small percentage of the idea could get lost in translation but almost no one would even notice.   This extra effort rewards the concourse, not the masses who wouldn't notice the difference (if there was any).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Would anyone happen to know exactly what type of drum is playing starting at about 1:10 here? I've checked the score sheets and it simply says "muffled deep drum".

 

Star Wars Episode 4 Complete Score- "The Millennium Falcon" - YouTube

 

Sounds like a muted bass drum.  They put a heavy cloth "mute" on the skin to muffle the tail.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

It was released with 4 bonus tracks in 2001, then in SACD (real or false I don't know) in 2016 (12 tracks).

 

https://www.discogs.com/Henry-Mancini-The-Pink-Panther-Music-From-The-Film-Score/release/8472696

 

https://www.discogs.com/Henry-Mancini-The-Pink-Panther-Music-From-The-Film-Score/release/8472696

 

Mancini... that's a big Pandora box to open, I never had the courage yet to jump in!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess Mancini is inescapable.

 

  • BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S (Henry Mancini, 1959) (AFI, Oscar winner)
  • CHARADE (Mancini, 1963) (AFI, Oscar Nominee)
  • THE PINK PANTHER (Mancini, 1964) (AFI, Oscar Nominee)
  • HATARI! (Mancini, 1962) (AFI)
  • TOUCH OF EVIL (Mancini, 1958) (AFI)
  • WAIT UNTIL DARK (Mancini, 1967) (AFI)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...