Josh500 1,615 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Watch this. At 3:33 JW tells the horn players "Do it again." They play, and he says, "But still not good. Ta-ti tatata. Agree about the length of the long note." They play again, and he says, "Much better."Do you hear a difference? Or was that scene just edited together? What do you think? Across the Stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bramada222 0 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Yeah, sounds the same to me, but it could be due to poor sound quality OR misleading editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well, the youtube sound quality isn't so bad! OR misleading editing.^I think that's more likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well, the youtube sound quality isn't so bad!YouTube can have reasonably good sound quality, but even the best doesn't come anywhere near what you'd hear on CD or DVD, naturally. And this video has far from the best sound quality possible on YouTube. There are a LOT of nuances that can't be heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well, the youtube sound quality isn't so bad!YouTube can have reasonably good sound quality, but even the best doesn't come anywhere near what you'd hear on CD or DVD, naturally. And this video has far from the best sound quality possible on YouTube. There are a LOT of nuances that can't be heard.Yes, you're right, but JW was concerned about the length of the notes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Right. But if two horn players were playing slightly different note lengths - and with players of this caliber, it would be a very slight difference - the poor sound quality could easily obscure that. But again, it could just be the editing. We've all seen the ubiquitous videos of Williams conducting on completely different beats or even tempi or meters from what we're hearing, simply because the editor wasn't a musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,617 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I don't think there's any funny editing going on there - two different performances IMO.Now Rick McCallum's "John is such a wonderful conductor composer..." *cheese alert*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,615 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thanks for the 5 seconds false hope the recording sessions had leakedi've never seen this..is that on the DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veggiemusician 0 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I can hear a differance - some of the horn players are playing some notes longer than the others.Not every player is playing exsactly the same.I am a pro classical musician so can easly tell these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmanjerm 78 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Right. But if two horn players were playing slightly different note lengths - and with players of this caliber, it would be a very slight difference - the poor sound quality could easily obscure that. But again, it could just be the editing. We've all seen the ubiquitous videos of Williams conducting on completely different beats or even tempi or meters from what we're hearing, simply because the editor wasn't a musician.It's the second note they play...some of the horn players were putting space after that note, others were holding it until starting the third note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 That's what I was listening for - and am still listening for - but I can't discern it through the compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinaismine 64 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well, the youtube sound quality isn't so bad!Serious question...are you deaf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I don't think there's any funny editing going on there - two different performances IMO.Now Rick McCallum's "John is such a wonderful conductor composer..." *cheese alert*.McCallum's comments are just pure and utter cheese. Every time.Lucas is not much better though. "I look SW films as basically silent movies..." Every time the same line.And I don't think there is any editing going on in this part of the clip. JW is just rehearsing the orchestra and the documentary comes in in the middle of it, just after the horns have played the part. And the video is not of the best quality so it is hard to judge how JW hears the difference in their performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well, the youtube sound quality isn't so bad!Serious question...are you deaf?That better not be an insult to those who are hard of hearing....Hm, I just watched the video, and I must admit that I cannot determine a difference, either....I did find this video, though, which is supposedly in high quality (at least, that is what I assume the "HQ" to represent). To be honest, I still cannot hear a difference, but maybe you people can hear something that I cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 This featurette was planned to be on the DVD but was dropped. There were Video Tapes and DVDs floating arround in 2002 to promote Episode II and they included Featurettes like: "Lovestory" "Action" "The Music" etc.. when the DVD contenet was officially listed on the net I was dissapointed to find all the featurettes being included but NOT the one about the music!however, if you had the DVD and an Internetconnection, you were able to download it from the DVDs exclusive online content.it is a 18MB big .mov file with a resulition of 320 x 180, it is mono but it has better quality as youtube of courseIf anybody is interested PM me, I upped it on Rapidshare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I don't think there's any funny editing going on there - two different performances IMO.Now Rick McCallum's "John is such a wonderful conductor composer..." *cheese alert*.Yes, I much prefer the honesty of the guys on the Superman doc."John Williams is a master!""When he gets with a 100 piece orchestra and he begins to go... it's just so thrilling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I don't think there's any funny editing going on there - two different performances IMO.Now Rick McCallum's "John is such a wonderful conductor composer..." *cheese alert*.Yes, I much prefer the honesty of the guys on the Superman doc."John Williams is a master!""When he gets with a 100 piece orchestra and he begins to go... it's just so thrilling." yet I still prefer the music for "Missouri Breaks" over "Superman: the Film" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Meaning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Meaning?john williams can be even more thrilling when he only has a handful of musicians not 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Ah, I see. I haven't heard The Missouri Breaks so I wouldn't know. Having said that, I suspect some people may disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thanks for the 5 seconds false hope the recording sessions had leakedi've never seen this..is that on the DVD?Welcome, that's what I do! I can hear a differance - some of the horn players are playing some notes longer than the others.Not every player is playing exsactly the same.I am a pro classical musician so can easly tell these things.Yes, that's what I was thinking. VERY VERY slight difference, but to John Williams it's MUCH better! Well, the youtube sound quality isn't so bad!Serious question...are you deaf?No, but serious question... are you dumb? McCallum's comments are just pure and utter cheese. Every time.Lucas is not much better though. "I look SW films as basically silent movies..." Every time the same line.Yes, Rick McCallum's the worst. I can't stand the guy. George Lucas at least knows what he's talking about, but Rick's just there to kiss everyone else's butt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,617 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thanks for the 5 seconds false hope the recording sessions had leakedi've never seen this..is that on the DVD?Mark, there would have been uproar here if any of the prequel sessions were leaked - you should know that. Remember what happened when the FSM podcast had 30 seconds of unreleased Temple music?I generally hate producer comments on documentaries. Full of cheese, utmost praise for everyone, and an assurance that it's the best picture ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,615 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Ah, I see. I haven't heard The Missouri Breaks so I wouldn't know. Having said that, I suspect some people may disagree with you.Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 At 2:37 of Across the Stars you can hear the final version. Sounds somehow a lot more tighter and better. Seems like JW made them practice a few more times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Right. But if two horn players were playing slightly different note lengths - and with players of this caliber, it would be a very slight difference - the poor sound quality could easily obscure that. But again, it could just be the editing. We've all seen the ubiquitous videos of Williams conducting on completely different beats or even tempi or meters from what we're hearing, simply because the editor wasn't a musician.It's the second note they play...some of the horn players were putting space after that note, others were holding it until starting the third note.I hear it too. I think for those of us that conduct/rehearse for a living are just that much more sensitive to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Well, I don't do it as a living, but I have done it. ::shrug:: Oh well. In other news, I have ALWAYS loved the passage in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Me too...it's a great contrast and musically reminds us of Amidala's "nobility" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 That's an interesting way of thinking of it - I never connected it with her royalty, but I can totally hear that now. It always just sounded more...ominous to me, I guess. The strings are slithering through the passage, and you get that woodwind statement of the theme, and then the horns come in, and it's like they're saying, "Something not so good is coming." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 It always just sounded more...ominous to me, I guess. The strings are slithering through the passage, and you get that woodwind statement of the theme, and then the horns come in, and it's like they're saying, "Something not so good is coming."I agree.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 yes that b-section of Across the Stars was always my favourite. I share your view it has that "Love-in-danger-feeling" to it. it is very clever structured - much cleverer than the a-section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,205 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 No difference can be heard.He is just talking to the cameras.An the second horn player looks like very bored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 yes that b-section of Across the Stars was always my favourite. I share your view it has that "Love-in-danger-feeling" to it. it is very clever structured - much cleverer than the a-sectionI would say that it is the C-section as the theme is clearly divided into 3 distinctive parts. The string figure undernearth the brass is actually the theme for Anakin's fall to the dark side which is heard in the Confession scene and subtly in other parts of the score and in Episode III. Another great musical story telling moment. First the Love theme section A expressing the love of the main protagonists, then the bittersweet B section that tells clearly that their love is forbidden and will end in tragedy and finally the dark C-section depicting Anakin's fall because of his love for his mother and especially Padmé. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 yes that b-section of Across the Stars was always my favourite. I share your view it has that "Love-in-danger-feeling" to it. it is very clever structured - much cleverer than the a-sectionI would say that it is the C-section as the theme is clearly divided into 3 distinctive parts. The string figure undernearth the brass is actually the theme for Anakin's fall to the dark side which is heard in the Confession scene and subtly in other parts of the score and in Episode III. Another great musical story telling moment. First the Love theme section A expressing the love of the main protagonists, then the bittersweet B section that tells clearly that their love is forbidden and will end in tragedy and finally the dark C-section depicting Anakin's fall because of his love for his mother and especially Padmé.aaaaahhh yes. I forgot about that wonderful sweeping, tragic secondary lovetheme.. yes it has to be the C section then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 No difference can be heard.He is just talking to the cameras.An the second horn player looks like very bored...And they all look slightly pissed off too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 That's an interesting way of thinking of it - I never connected it with her royalty, but I can totally hear that now. It always just sounded more...ominous to me, I guess. The strings are slithering through the passage, and you get that woodwind statement of the theme, and then the horns come in, and it's like they're saying, "Something not so good is coming." Yes!I can hear it...And speaking of nobility, listen to "He Is The Chosen One" at 3:28-3:38. It's just a few notes, but JW makes it sound SO noble when the Queen appears for a short time. This has always been one of my favorite subtle moments in TPM. 3:28-3:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,053 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 No difference can be heard.He is just talking to the cameras.An the second horn player looks like very bored...And they all look slightly pissed off too...Based on what some people, who have attended scoring sessions, have reported, they aren't what most people expect. They can be rather monotonous. A lot of long hours and the musicians, as professional as they are, probably tire of playing take after take of the same music.And that doesn't count the studio execs/directors who are panicking or trying to interject what little they know about music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 And that doesn't count the studio execs/directors who are panicking or trying to interject what little they know about music.'This is too boring! Quick, play Yoda's theme! Do I look like a guy who cares about context? Something cool is happening, PLAY THE DAMN THEME!Leitmotif? Isn't that a German sausage?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 No difference can be heard.He is just talking to the cameras.An the second horn player looks like very bored...And they all look slightly pissed off too...Based on what some people, who have attended scoring sessions, have reported, they aren't what most people expect. They can be rather monotonous. A lot of long hours and the musicians, as professional as they are, probably tire of playing take after take of the same music.And that doesn't count the studio execs/directors who are panicking or trying to interject what little they know about music.Yeah, and don't think there isn't a little "Who does this guy really think he is?" running through their heads too. I mean, we all know the incident with JW and the Boston Pops back in the early 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 The LSO likes Horner more anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Makes sense...they've already played every score he'll ever throw at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,205 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 The LSO likes Horner more anyway.Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Makes sense...they've already played every score he'll ever throw at them!Yeah, once they did An American Tail they did pretty much everything else by Horner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yeah, and don't think there isn't a little "Who does this guy really think he is?" running through their heads too. I mean, we all know the incident with JW and the Boston Pops back in the early 80's.LSO is highly professional... not like BPO!And anyway, it'd be kinda weird when the horn players were grinning from ear to ear like infatuated school girls at the chance to play (and hear!) the new Star Wars score... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 And anyway, it'd be kinda weird when the horn players were grinning from ear to ear like infatuated school girls at the chance to play (and hear!) the new Star Wars score...That would be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 And anyway, it'd be kinda weird when the horn players were grinning from ear to ear like infatuated school girls at the chance to play (and hear!) the new Star Wars score...That would be me. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 And anyway, it'd be kinda weird when the horn players were grinning from ear to ear like infatuated school girls at the chance to play (and hear!) the new Star Wars score...That would be me. Probably the horn players were too. But when JW made them repeat that passage 30 times, those grins wore off, as likely as not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 And anyway, it'd be kinda weird when the horn players were grinning from ear to ear like infatuated school girls at the chance to play (and hear!) the new Star Wars score...That would be me. Probably the horn players were too. But when JW made them repeat that passage 30 times, those grins wore off, as likely as not. That's why they're the LSO and not the Greater East Hoople Off-Season Orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 And anyway, it'd be kinda weird when the horn players were grinning from ear to ear like infatuated school girls at the chance to play (and hear!) the new Star Wars score...That would be me. Probably the horn players were too.Yeah, sure, they probably were! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now