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MattyO
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Oh give him a break. It's Koray, for crying out loud. Whether he actually prefers composers like Michael G and Hans Zimmer over others like David Arnold and Jerry Goldsmith is not relevant. He's still going to joke about it, and if such jokes involve yellow journalism tactics like using our words against us, so be it.

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In all honesty David Arnold hasn't exactly wowed me with alot of his music since ID4.

I'd say Michael Giacchino is even with him in terms of composing, perhaps a bit more talented.

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Indeed it is ridiculous. Arnold won't ever be as great as Michael Giacchino. Arnold won't compose a score as vast and great as Medal Of Honor (all of them), Ratatouille, The Incredibles, Star Trek, Lost, and even The Family Stone.

I agree. :P

Seconded.

Oh give him a break. It's Koray, for crying out loud. Whether he actually prefers composers like Michael G and Hans Zimmer over others like David Arnold and Jerry Goldsmith is not relevant. He's still going to joke about it, and if such jokes involve yellow journalism tactics like using our words against us, so be it.

And damn, don't we love it! At least, I do.

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Besides, talent can only be shown with the right material and a request for the right approach. And, I wouldn't want Arnold for a Pixar picture.

I wouldn't mind that. I am looking forward to see what he could come up with on an animated feature. Arnold's has already done some nice comedy scores - Stepford Wives, How to loose friends....

As for Koray's general distaste for Arnold's works, it's beyond my understanding. It's only compared to Joey's distaste for Giacchino's works.

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Why this pointless and obsessive desire to compare Giacchino to every other composer? Let him be his own man.

Yep, he has already proved to have his own voice.

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In all honesty David Arnold hasn't exactly wowed me with alot of his music since ID4.

And while I like ID4, I thought Stargate was better.

I'd say Michael Giacchino is even with him in terms of composing, perhaps a bit more talented.

I find Giacchino much more interesting.

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As for Koray's general distaste for Arnold's works, it's beyond my understanding. It's only compared to Joey's distaste for Giacchino's works.

I like Tomorrow Never Dies and Casino Royale. He is one of those composers I generally don't like, but it's not like I despise his music.

Why this pointless and obsessive desire to compare Giacchino to every other composer? Let him be his own man.

Yep, he has already proved to have his own voice.

Indeed.

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Why this pointless and obsessive desire to compare Giacchino to every other composer? Let him be his own man.

I hear this a lot, but honestly I've always thought the point of these comparisons is not to suggest that the up-and-comer is identical to his/her referenced predecessor but rather that the up-and-comer has or will have a position or status in his/her world that is analogous to that of his predecessor.

When people compare Yao Ming to Shaquille O'Neal or Hakeem Olajuwon, it's not because they believe his game is modeled after either of theirs (in fact, nothing could be further from the truth), it's because they believe he's a a top-3 dominant center in the league, just as they were in their primes.

When people compare Giacchino to Williams, I get the idea that it's not so much the idea that their styles are similar, it's that, like Williams, Giacchino seems to have a good melodic sense and a flair for orchestral action/adventure writing, and, like Williams, he seems destined to be superstar in his field. He's already got some very high profile television credits under his belt, and now he's writing for Pixar and scoring giant franchises like Star Trek. The chances seem very good that in ten, fifteen years, Giacchino is going to find himself in a similar place to where Williams is now.

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You see it in a much more positive light than I do then. The fact that those comments usually tend to come from Giacchino doubters or outright haters doesn't help.

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The chances seem very good that in ten, fifteen years, Giacchino is going to find himself in a similar place to where Williams is now.

For that, he needs more than solid craftmanship. It would include becoming something of a national celebrity with 5 oscars and a household name in the musical world of America. I don't see how Giacchino can achieve that.

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In all honesty David Arnold hasn't exactly wowed me with alot of his music since ID4.

And while I like ID4, I thought Stargate was better.

Me too.

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I have no idea. But I like CASINO ROYALE more than anything Giacchino has done. Yet.

I personally don't rank Casino that high, but I definitely prefer it to Giacchino's M:I 3. I also find Arnold's epic scores (except for Musketeer) better than MG's Star Trek. On the other hand, MoHs, Ratatouille and, from what I've heard, The Incredibles are better than any Arnold's work from last 10 years (which doesn't mean they are any sort of bad, though).

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BONUS QUESTION (5 pts):

(Tomorrow Never Dies - The World Is Not Enough) * (Stargate / ID4) = ?

Godzilla is the answer, my friend.

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I saw Wolverine and I didn't hate it; I thought it was better than The Last Stand. The score, however, was difficult to gauge as I had a problem with one of my ears (and the score was competing to outshine the sound effects). The main theme is satisfactory enough and about what I expected from HGW. I'd have liked to see John Powell return for this one.

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Hmm, the problem I'm having with Powell is he's almost got too much of his own style - it always sounds like him, and hence I find it hard taking his action material seriously.

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Hmm, the problem I'm having with Powell is he's almost got too much of his own style - it always sounds like him, and hence I find it hard taking his action material seriously.

I'd rather listen to someone who always sounds like him rather than someone who sounds just like everyone else.

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Yeah, well I can't say I hated Gregson-Williams' score in the film, but Powell's score was one of the few highlights of X3. Come to think of it, it would have been interesting to hear an Alan Silvestri take on the X-Men franchise (and the superhero genre in general). I also wouldn't have minded John Ottman returning or letting Michael Giacchino have an X-spin. Like I said, I don't detest HGW's work; I just think RC scores don't gel with superhero movies. I actually turned to my brother at one point during the film and said "notice how the music sounds like The Dark Knight?", it's obviously the sound producers think filmgoers now associate with superhero movies. It certainly is a sad decline that I fear will only get worse.

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Hmm, the problem I'm having with Powell is he's almost got too much of his own style - it always sounds like him, and hence I find it hard taking his action material seriously.

I'd rather listen to someone who always sounds like him rather than someone who sounds just like everyone else.

There an elusive sweet spot at which the composer imbues a film with a soundscape of its own without compromising his personal voice. Few are able to hit it consistently over a substantial period of their career. And, of course, many never do.

Like I said, I don't detest HGW's work; I just think RC scores don't gel with superhero movies. I actually turned to my brother at one point during the film and said "notice how the music sounds like The Dark Knight?", it's obviously the sound producers think filmgoers now associate with superhero movies. It certainly is a sad decline that I fear will only get worse.

To what genre(s) do you find "RC scores" best suited?

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To what genre(s) do you find "RC scores" best suited?

Modern U.S. Military Movie Scores.

Ugh.

Although I suppose cheese fits cheese.

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Zimmer defined the modern warfare genre with Black Hawk Down, but has yet to return to it. I suppose Tears Of The Sun could fall into that category, but it's a much different film.

I haven't noticed many war movies incorporating that sound.

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Zimmer defined the modern warfare genre with Black Hawk Down, but has yet to return to it. I suppose Tears Of The Sun could fall into that category, but it's a much different film.

I haven't noticed many war movies incorporating that sound.

There's a plausible argument to be made that scores such as Thomas Newman's Jarhead and Danny Elfman's The Kingdom bear some Black Hawk Down influence.

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Jarhead is more Newman than Zimmer, the electronics can be inspired by Zimmer I guess but the writing is unabashedly Newman

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I can think of some other words that start with a "c" to call Media Ventures....

So you know what that word means now? ;)

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Jarhead is more Newman than Zimmer, the electronics can be inspired by Zimmer I guess but the writing is unabashedly Newman

Absolutely.

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Jarhead is more Newman than Zimmer, the electronics can be inspired by Zimmer I guess but the writing is unabashedly Newman

Absolutely.

There is Newman in there, but I think it's overwhelmingly Zimmer.

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Jarhead is more Newman than Zimmer, the electronics can be inspired by Zimmer I guess but the writing is unabashedly Newman

Absolutely.

There is Newman in there, but I think it's overwhelmingly Zimmer.

Apparently you are whelmed more easily than I am.

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I fail to hear the Newman -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JMgFsA3Sk

I'm sorry to hear of your failing, but for me a thorough listen of the entire score reveals far less Zimmer influence than you let on.

At least we can agree on the original point: Black Hawk Down, like Gladiator and Crimson Tide before it, is a trend-setter.

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...for me a thorough listen of the entire score reveals far less Zimmer influence than you let on.

Yeah that's why I took back the overwhelming. It's been awhile since I listened to it, and I skimmed through it a bit.

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Pardon my ignorance of all the abbreviations flying around...what exactly is an "RC score?"

As far as scores to military films, I (naturally) pay attention to those, and no matter who writes the score, I typically seem to be let down by the music. I happen to like the "Private Ryan" score (I know some do not), but unfortunately I find many of those type scores to sound very "generic."

I don't claim to know every single cue from every single military movie ever, but I think the problem is often a lack of incorporating a unique musical idea...something to give the score it's unique "sound." Whether it's the harmonic language, or a recurring theme/motive, etc, military scores often sound too much like the composer is just giving us a musical soundscape with nothing else...kind of like a landscape painting of nothing but grass and sky. I think sometime they just hold a static chord in the strings forever, then when it doesn't sound properly militant enough, they do the old "throw in a muted trumpet and snare drum in the distance" technique. (Not a bad technique, and I've used it myself! haha).

I guess that's why I like "Private Ryan." It's a little on the stereotypical hymn-like-score-to-bring-out-the-tears side, but he uses a clear harmonic technique for the entire score, which gives the whole thing a sort of musical cohesion. You hear 5 seconds of the music, you know which film it's from. On its own, without the visual, it loses a lot of that strength.

I guess this is a problem in many scores these days, military and otherwise. Good scores have good music, regardless of the film, but a great scores can be one with just good music that fits the visual and reminds the listener of that.

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