Michael Giacchino's Star Trek

[John Crichton 4]

Was it your intent to make the CD labels look like boobs?

Disc 2 looks more like HAL with a hole cut in him. That back cover is sweet.

It's weird to me how Trek ended up with such a short CD when other Giacchino scores from Varese got much more generous releases (MI III, Land of the Lost). Did that have to do with Paramount, or the Trek name and the fees involved with it, or just the unions?

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I suspect the unions, since most of the other Giacchino scores tend to have fewer musicians for each cue, so the union fees could theoretically be less.

[John Crichton 4]

Trek did have a huge orchestra, plus chorus.

[Datameister 2,037]

Obviously, I prefer having everything lossless, but I'd certainly settle for an expanded (high-bitrate) mp3 release. Better to have it clean with barely audible artifacts than buried under sound effects and dialogue echoes but without a hint of compression.

[Henry B 50]

Actually, I think some DVD sound mixes are compressed. I've certainly noticed what seems like compression when doing rips. I remember that when KotCS was released on home video, the Disc 2 menu rips clearly sounded better on Blu-ray.

[Datameister 2,037]

I think you're right - there is a little compression involved. My bad. I'm having trouble finding information on Blu-ray audio standards as opposed to DVD audio standards, though.

My goodness, I wish I had the money to buy a Blu-ray drive for my computer and some software for ripping the audio...I'd totally make the switch.

[Jay 37,281]

Wait, you two didn't realize until now that DVD-audio is compressed? That's one of the beautys of HD-DVD / Blu Ray, is the option of presenting lossless audio tracks. The only lossless audio ever used on a regular DVD is PCM Stereo. All DD 5.1 mixes on regular DVDs are compressed. Even the DTS tracks on DVDs, though they take up more room than a DD 5.1 version of the same thing, are compressed.

My goodness, I wish I had the money to buy a Blu-ray drive for my computer and some software for ripping the audio...I'd totally make the switch.

You can get an internal Blu Ray drive for your computer for $60

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827106325

[OneBuckFilms 319]

The Dolby Digital data format is, I believe, a lossy compression format, the same as MP3 for audio and the MPEG1, MPEG2 and MPEG4 formats used for video.

The sound quality on a 5.1 mix is still better than a CD, due to the much higher uncompressed bitrate (48,000 on DVD vs 44,100 on CD).

[Datameister 2,037]

Bah, I hate lossy compression. I want a world in which every storage device has infinite memory and everything is stored perfectly...images, video, audio...

[Wojo 2,453]

Neither my eyes nor my ears are perfect, so true lossless really does nothing for me.

Infinite memory would require infinite energy and generate infinite heat. I think it's far more unfortunate that all the hard drives, flash, and optical devices we enjoy so much will not enjoy an infinite lifespan.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

To Infinity And Beyond ...

[Datameister 2,037]

I can dream, can't I?!

[Wojo 2,453]

You're certainly allowed to dream, my friend.

At one time, 640k of memory was more than anyone would ever need.

In 1995, I upgraded my computer from 4 megs of RAM to 8 megs for a cool $200. My most recent upgrade was to buy 3 GB for my current system for $150. In 1995, ignoring the ridiculous number of memory banks required, that upgrade would have cost $153,600.

[Datameister 2,037]

It's insane how prices keep plummeting and specs keep skyrocketing...I hope it never stops!

I also can't wait for the Star Trek DVDs to be released...I want me some unreleased music!

[Datameister 2,037]

My DVDs have shipped. Amazon estimates a Wednesday delivery! =O

Also, for those who haven't been reading the Giacchino thread, we are apparently in for an official second disc with all unreleased music at some point in the future! So don't get too attached to my edit, as it will probably become completely obsolete soon, and I couldn't be happier about it.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I'm still enjoying it until the official unreleased cues come out, and still appreciate the work you did.

[Datameister 2,037]

As am I. If and when this release hits the shelves, I will buy it in an instant, and even if every single bit of unreleased music is included, I won't regret putting my edit together in the slightest. It was fun, and we will have gotten to enjoy the additional music for that much longer.

[Richard Penna 3,669]

There is a universal frustration that the Unions really should be taking note of.

I find it interesting that James Horner scores routinely seem to get 70+ minute releases, whereas this score gets a mere 40-50 minutes.

Are the fees so different? Why is this?

What I don't understand with reuse fees is that you don't pay an author their entire earnings from a book at once; it's paid in royalties, so why the hell should an orchestra demand six figure sums right now and price themselves out of the market for most scores?

Wouldn't the players rather receive a reasonable royalty every so often as the music sells, rather than absolutely nothing because no label can afford the fees?

Are there any AFM players on here? Be interesting to hear another p.o.v.

[Alan 689]

Well I got the chance to watch the film and see some of the extras on Blu Ray last night. From just the one documentary (Starships) there seems to be a TON of unreleased/alternate cues.

Can't wait to get my copy tomorrow and watch the rest of the extras. Needless to say though, this should be a great set for finding unreleased music.

[Jay 37,281]

Whether or not it can be isolated cleanly is another question

[Alan 689]

Whether or not it can be isolated cleanly is another question

It seemed the music was mixed quite prominently. From memory a lot of the music in "Starships" sounded like an alternate of 'Enterprising Young Men'. Only got to watch it through once though and my flatmate was talking through most of it. Grrr

Oh, and the film looked and sounded absolutely stunning!

[Datameister 2,037]

Well, I am REALLY hoping someone will be able and willing to rip whatever's unique to the Blu-ray...without some clever soul's help, I'll only have access to whatever's rippable from the DVD.

[Alan 689]

Well, I am REALLY hoping someone will be able and willing to rip whatever's unique to the Blu-ray...without some clever soul's help, I'll only have access to whatever's rippable from the DVD.

All of the blu ray extras on disc 2 are also on the DVD I believe. Except maybe the virtual CG versions of the Enterprise and Narada. Don't think the blu ray exclusives are the kind of extras that would have music in them anyway.

[John Crichton 4]

I hope Varese makes all this work unnecessary.

[Wojo 2,453]

What I don't understand with reuse fees is that you don't pay an author their entire earnings from a book at once; it's paid in royalties, so why the hell should an orchestra demand six figure sums right now and price themselves out of the market for most scores?

Probably because it only takes one person to write a book, but a few dozen people to comprise an orchestra.

[Alan 689]

I hope Varese makes all this work unnecessary.

There's an interview currently on Aint It Cool with Giacchino in which he says he was disappointed with the amount of music on the album as well and says he HOPES they release a complete score sometime in the future.

I'm hoping this interview is slightly older than the current stirrings from Varese.

[Datameister 2,037]

According to Maurizio, it's actually happening, in which case all this work will no longer be of any use, but as I've said, that's fine. Until it's officially announced, I'm just going to go right on ahead assembling whatever material is available.

And alan1984, every resource I've found has listed significantly more special features on the 3-disc Blu-ray set than on the 2-disc DVD set. I've no idea whether or not anything useful will be found on those additional features, but there's certainly the potential.

[Jay 37,281]

But it's not worth dropping $60 on an internal Blu Ray drive for your computer to find out for sure?

[Datameister 2,037]

'Fraid not. Maybe once someone will hire me and I can find doable instructions on how to rip audio from Blu-ray discs...

[Jay 37,281]

So Joe what have you discovered on the DVD so far in terms of unreleased music?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Have heard the second part of Distress Call about six times now in different featurettes.

Interesting how much of an influence the LOTR EEs has had on bonus features.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I'm hoping this interview is slightly older than the current stirrings from Varese.

I think the interview is months old. if i read correctly.

[Alan 689]

Have heard the second part of Distress Call about six times now in different featurettes.

Interesting how much of an influence the LOTR EEs has had on bonus features.

I was thinking the same thing. Not nearly as much but very similar in approach, quality of content (with the disappointing exception of the poor score feature here). It goes into a similar level of detail.

Hardly a bad thing!

[Datameister 2,037]

So Joe what have you discovered on the DVD so far in terms of unreleased music?

Well, I was gone all day, but I've incorporated clean passages into "Fighting Fire With Fire." Some of them are just a couple of seconds long, but there are some longer passages, too - totally clean, in excellent sound quality! I think we'll have a clean version of ALL of "Jim Runs a Titan Ship" after the initial cadets' theme/main theme stuff, though I'm just getting started on the actual editing. I also recall there being the end of "Romulinterrogation", the end of "Distress Call", parts of "The Drill Team" (including some unused material!)...stuff like that. I haven't even gotten through the first disc yet, so I'm feeling pretty good about this whole thing. Once I've finished everything, I'll post a complete list of all the changes to my complete edit v2.0.

Still crossing my fingers for that unused statement of Nero's theme Chris mentioned...

[Joe Brausam 214]

What I don't understand with reuse fees is that you don't pay an author their entire earnings from a book at once; it's paid in royalties, so why the hell should an orchestra demand six figure sums right now and price themselves out of the market for most scores?

Probably because it only takes one person to write a book, but a few dozen people to comprise an orchestra.

Not to mention the musicians are unionized under the AFM.

[Henry B 50]

Also, playing film scores ain't like dusting crops, boy. It's one of the absolute most difficult gigs a musician can get, at least if it's technically advanced music like Williams. The training, sight reading skill and level of precision required is unbelievable. The musicians have to play completely unfamiliar pieces of music flawlessly in just two or three takes, even one if the budget sucks. At least with difficult contemporary music there's usually some time to practice and rehearse. The musicians who play for composers like Hans Zimmer or John Ottman could run circles around them in any performance arena, and could probably compose better scores themselves.

Just saying, I'd demand a lot of money too if I were one of the best musicians in the world.

[Datameister 2,037]

Can't argue with that, Henry. Well, except for the thing about composing better scores themselves, but I suspect that was at least slightly tongue-in-cheek anyway.

[Henry B 50]

Well, not every studio musician could compose a better score, just a good few of them.

Most performers at a level that high seem to have little interest in composition. It's just not something they have the time or focus to work on when their performing life is so intense.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Interestingly, the first thing Abrams says on the commentary is that "Star Trek" was not the original piece of music for the opening.

Hmm, later on he says that the cue used for McCoy's introduction was originally the opening logos piece, but they moved it because of the snippet of the TOS theme in there.

[Richard Penna 3,669]

Not to mention the musicians are unionized under the AFM.

I know that, that's the problem - doesn't apply anywhere else in the US as far as I can tell.

And I can understand that world class musicians can demand a fair dollar for their work. I just wish it would be worked out so that a label doesn't have to half bankrupt themselves to release a CD of music.

[Jay 37,281]

Interestingly, the first thing Abrams says on the commentary is that "Star Trek" was not the original piece of music for the opening.

Hmm, later on he says that the cue used for McCoy's introduction was originally the opening logos piece, but they moved it because of the snippet of the TOS theme in there.

Now that is fascinating!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

He also mentions something similar during 'Distress Call', so I'm wondering whether he's got it wrong and that was supposed to be at the opening (with the big TOS homage at the end)?

[Jay 37,281]

Wow. That would be interesting.

So maybe that "end of Distress Call" heard in many special features is actually the original opening piece?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

This is what I picked up about the music from the commentary, verbatim from Abrams:

Over the opening logos: 'So this piece of music... this music was not the original piece of music in this opening sequence. Michael Giacchino had this recorded like two weeks before we finished the mix, and I think this is a genius move.' (incidentally, they also talk about the movie originally opening with Spock's birth, so this could be the reason for the change).

Over the main title: 'This transition was not here, this musical transition was actually, and is still in the film later, when they are going up in space for the first time to see the Enterprise. And I moved this to here 'cause it felt more like an announcement that Star Trek is back.'

When the shuttle takes off from Iowa with Kirk and McCoy: 'And by the way, this music, this used to be the music at the beginning of the movie, from Star Trek. (other guy: for the Star Trek logo? - note: this guy could just be confusing things although we know the main title wasn't the original piece) Right. I moved it here 'cause it felt more like, the first time you hear the echoing of the Alexander Courage theme, right there, felt like it was finally earned. Like, it's finally, Kirk's on his way to the Star Trek that we know.'

When McCoy smuggles Kirk onto the shuttle (it's possible he could be getting confused here): 'So here's the music that's from the opening of the movie again.'

Over the swell when Kirk and Spock Prime look out over the snowscape: 'This was another one of those pieces that we added at the last minute.'

[Jay 37,281]

Very interesting. It get confusing talking about "Opening Logos" vs "Main Title"

Isn't the spock's birth scene on the dvd, with some other deleted scenes? Do any of them have original music?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Very interesting. It get confusing talking about "Opening Logos" vs "Main Title"

Isn't the spock's birth scene on the dvd, with some other deleted scenes? Do any of them have original music?

I'd have to go back and check, but Spock's birth is on there.

Also, when the chorus breaks out during the Narada's destruction, the choir is singing the names of Giacchino's pets when he was growing up!

[Jay 37,281]

Also, when the chorus breaks out during the Narada's destruction, the choir is singing the names of Giacchino's pets when he was growing up!

LOL!

[Datameister 2,037]

Oy...this is confusing about the music being repurposed. I suspect that somewhere in all that, someone didn't quite explain it correctly. The end of "Distress Call" seems like it couldn't possibly be the original opening title, since it fits perfectly into the scene in the film and the tone would be all wrong. "The Reeling McCoy" could work, I guess, but it still seems...weird. [EDIT: Listening to it again, yeah, I suppose that'd fit as an opening title piece. In the film, it is shorter than "Star Trek", though.] I know firsthand it's incredibly easy to forget or confuse details of a collaborative creative process once a little time has passed, especially when it's really someone else's area of expertise you're talking about. It makes me wonder.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

You're right. It doesn't help that both the McCoy scene and the end of 'Distress Call' both end with fragments of the TOS theme and are also similarly structured visually (shuttles leaving). I wonder if Mr. Tilton could help?

Given that Giacchino said someone else comes up with his puns, does anyone know what the original cue titles are?

[Jay 37,281]

If any of us knew anything like that, it'd be in the main post of this thread