Michael Giacchino's Star Trek

[Datameister 2,037]

In "Nailin' the Kelvin", you're just hearing a slight variation on the main theme. Giacchino has filled the first three beats with alternating quarter notes, rather than a single sustained tone, that's all. A similar sort of alternation is also heard beneath the main theme (or, in the film, by itself) in HBT, but the notes are different. If this were a really persistent element throughout the score, it might make sense to call it a theme, but as it is, it's just an alternation between two notes. Coincidence.

EDIT: Okay, seriously...why does every online resource claim that the erhu is used (with electronic enhancements) for the Romulans as well? That bit of misinformation is everywhere. Nero and the Romulans have their own themes that are purely orchestral, typically with lots of low brass and percussion. The erhu is for Spock and the Vulcans - period.

Also, with some of the tracks, it's more challenging to come up with appropriately punny titles than to do the editing itself. lol

[Jay 37,326]

Yea, but Giacchino has never released a CD where EVERY SINGLE track was a pun. Don't go crazy over there

[Datameister 2,037]

True....

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I might try my hand at renaming the tracks. I'll post my revised cue list soon

Here it is:

1. Star Trek - 1:01

2. Lighning Storm In Space - 0:40

3. Robau Departs - 1:57

4. 2233.04 / - 0:57

5. Nailing The Kelvin / - 2:09

6. Labor of Love / - 2:51

7. Enterprising Main Title - 0:46

8. Emotional Response - 1:33

9. Hella Bar Talk - 1:55

10. Bones - 0:37

11. Welcome Home, Spock! - 1:02

12. No-Win Scenarios - 0:15

13. Preparations and Assignments / - 3:30

14. Enterprising Young Men - 2:39

15. Punch It! - 0:10

16. Finding Uhura - 1:07

17. Nero's Drill - 0:25

18. Shields Up, Red Alert! - 0:56

19. Nero Sighted - 3:23

20. Red Matter / - 0:46

21. Pike's Plan / - 1:15

22. Preparing For Jump - 1:16

23. Orbital Dive - 0:57

24. Drill Platform Fight - 2:54

25. Beam Us Up! - 2:10

26. The Katric Ark / - 2:11

27. Endangered Species - 2:04

28. I Saw It Happen ! - 2:18

29. Get Him Of This Ship - 1:08

30. Delta Vega - 0:29

31. Monster Red Alert - 1:17

32. Spock Prime - 0:35

33. Nice To Meld You - 3:31

34. Kirk's Father - 0:32

35. Federation Outpost - 0:28

36. Scotty - 0:17

37. A Trick Learned from an Old Friend - 1:43

38. Pipe Chase - 0:53

39. Come With Me, Cupcake ! - 0:31

40. Emotionally Compromized - 2:15

41. Acting Captain Kirk - 1:42

42. Half Human - 0:52

43. Enterprising Titan - 1:51

44. Run and Shoot Offense - 2:04

45. Does It Still McFly - 2:03

46. Nero Death Experience / - 5:38

47. Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns - 2:34

48. Givin' It All She's Got! - 0:52

49. Back From Black - 0:59

50. That New Car Smell - 4:46

51. To Boldly Go - 0:26

52. End Credits - 9:11

TOTAL TIME: 81:21

[Datameister 2,037]

Do it! I'll definitely post my punny track titles once I've completed my edit. (I'm about to start work on what we've been calling "Bridge Tension.")

EDIT: What the heck? I could swear someone quietly drops an F-bomb while they're talking on the bridge.

KIRK: Then what about assigning engineering crews to try and boost our warp yield?

SPOCK: The remaining power and crew are being used to repair radiation leaks -

SOMEONE: [whispers] F***!

SPOCK: - in the lower deck -

Jay, you wanna take a look at that scene (after Pike gets questioned) and tell me what you see/hear?

[Jay 37,326]

LOL!

I will watch the scene in question when I get home later tonight and let you know what's on screen

I think I was the only one that noticed there was an F-bomb in the Beastie Boys song that plays in the desert

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, I remember you mentioning that. I definitely didn't pick up on it on my own.

[Chris.Tilton 0]

Okay, seriously...why does every online resource claim that the erhu is used (with electronic enhancements) for the Romulans as well? That bit of misinformation is everywhere. Nero and the Romulans have their own themes that are purely orchestral, typically with lots of low brass and percussion. The erhu is for Spock and the Vulcans - period.

The Erhu was used in several instances for the Romulans, only the Romulan version has had added effects on it (a delay and probably some other minor distortion or EQ). Giacchino did this on purpose because both the Romulans and Vulcans are related.

[Jay 37,326]

The Erhu was used in several instances for the Romulans, only the Romulan version has had added effects on it (a delay and probably some other minor distortion or EQ). Giacchino did this on purpose because both the Romulans and Vulcans are related.

Fascinating.

Also? Joe just got pwned!

[Datameister 2,037]

The Erhu was used in several instances for the Romulans, only the Romulan version has had added effects on it (a delay and probably some other minor distortion or EQ). Giacchino did this on purpose because both the Romulans and Vulcans are related.

I definitely appreciate you weighing in, Chris! Your knowledgeable presence is always welcome. I have to ask, though...any chance you could provide some concrete examples? I've yet to hear erhu for anything other than Spock and the Vulcans. (The justification for the idea makes perfect sense to me - it's really cool, actually. I'm just not hearing it in the score.)

[Jay 37,326]

TheErhu was used in several instances for the Romulans, only the Romulanversion has had added effects on it (a delay and probably some otherminor distortion or EQ). Giacchino did this on purpose because both theRomulans and Vulcans are related.

I definitely appreciate you weighing in, Chris! Your knowledgeable presence is always welcome. Ihave to ask, though...any chance you could provide some concreteexamples? I've yet to hear erhu for anything other than Spock and theVulcans. (The justification for the idea makes perfect sense to me -it's really cool, actually. I'm just not hearing it in the score.)

You dare question the word of Tilton??

What the heck? I could swear someone quietly drops an F-bomb while they're talking on the bridge.

KIRK: Then what about assigning engineering crews to try and boost our warp yield?

SPOCK: The remaining power and crew are being used to repair radiation leaks -

SOMEONE: [whispers] F***!

SPOCK: - in the lower deck -

Jay, you wanna take a look at that scene (after Pike gets questioned) and tell me what you see/hear?

That's not an f-bomb, that's just Kirk huffing. It's on a shot of Spock in the foreground and Kirk in the background on a higher part of the bridge.

[Datameister 2,037]

You dare question the word of Tilton??

Haha, I'd just like to hear it for myself so I'm no longer tempted to!

That's not an f-bomb, that's just Kirk huffing. It's on a shot of Spock in the foreground and Kirk in the background on a higher part of the bridge.

Yeah, I figured. Still...listening to just the audio, it was a bit of a shock.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Going through the audio is a little frustrating in a way.

It's great fun to pick out and really listen to the musical cues, but with all of the sound effects, dial-outs etc., it makes one wish for an expanded release.

I'm beginning to realize just how much great material is absent on the Soundtrack CD.

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, it's elating but frustrating. The album really does omit some great passages. My favorite unreleased bit so far is easily the 6/8 (12/8?) groove leading up to the big jump. Soooooo awesome. I'm a big sucker for fun beats in compound meters.

[Chris.Tilton 0]

I don't remember where it is, but I certainly remember the erhu playing Nero's theme at least a couple times. It's probably in scenes where Nero is in his ship, maybe with Pike and such, but again I'm not sure.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Chris, I'm looking at your Twitter page. Are you having a conversation about Uncharted 2? That's awesome!

[Jay 37,326]

Chris,

Any insight into why Nero's Theme is only used in the first half of the film?

It's introduced in the opening Kelvin sequence, and is used throughout the sequence over Vulcan. However, after Vulcan, it's not heard again until the End Credits (and even that is just the "Red Matter" cue repeated, and not an original arrangement).

It's surprising to me it wasn't used at all in the climax of the film, for example.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

If it can be asked... were the cutscenes scored?

Nero appeared more in those, dind't he?

[Jay 37,326]

Yea, but even if any of the deleted Klingon subplot scenes contained Nero's Theme, they all take place in the beginning of the movie, during the time Kirk and Spock are "growing up"

[Datameister 2,037]

My edit is up to 1:19, plus three bonus minutes comprising "Star Trek" without the synths and the film version of HBT. Next up..."Spock Prime Time."

[Jay 37,326]

Excellent, can't wait to hear it

[Datameister 2,037]

Whoa...I don't know if this was just edited together from other scraps of material, but apparently, there's a whole 'nother film version of "Nice to Meld You." I knew that most of the album track isn't heard in the film, but I hadn't noticed that there actually is music in that scene. Lots of whiny synths, blaring dissonances, stuff like that, all the way up till the material from the album version starts. It's gonna be very tricky to edit it so as to minimize Spock's voice echoes, but I intend to do it and include it as another bonus track. I'll keep the album version in that part of the chronological score itself.

EDIT: Also, it's cool to line up the album version with the film audio. It matches quite well...it's never been my favorite track on the album, but it does accentuate the various developments nicely. I suppose it's probably an instance of good scoring coupled with poor spotting...although it sounds cool in there, they made the right choice in creating a stranger soundscape, I think.

[Jay 37,326]

Yea I lined it up with the movie earlier this year and it mostly fit... there was some editing because it didn't always line up... but it did give the scene a different tone. Hopefully someone will make a youtube video once the dvd is out

[Datameister 2,037]

Oop, I think "Federation Outpost" is all tracked from the beginning of "Does It Still McFly." The pitch has been changed and several parts have been looped, but it's the same recording, I think.

[Datameister 2,037]

Okay, I'm starting to get really tired of coming up with contrived puns. I already had to settle for five consecutive tracks without puns in the titles...for some reason, the unreleased material toward the end of the movie is really hard to come up with puns for.

Also, I think the first part of "Pursuit Course" is tracked from "Kirk's Father," or vice versa. Hard to tell which it was written for.

[Datameister 2,037]

*

[Tallguy 3,381]

Maybe you should go for a pun-percentage? The puns on the album were, what, 50%?

[Datameister 2,037]

I count 9 out of 15 track titles with some sort of play on words that I'm aware of. I suppose that ratio is pretty consistent with what I came up with. However, I also looked at the one complete Giacchino score I have - namely, the season 3 finale for Lost. Almost every single track title for that is a pun or allusion of some sort.

[Jay 37,326]

Also, I think the first part of "Pursuit Course" is tracked from "Kirk's Father," or vice versa. Hard to tell which it was written for.

Interesting, I'll have to check that out.

I've had almost no time to do anything with this score since editing that rear channel rip! I dunno how a college student like you finds so much time to work on this!

I anticipate the return of the partial complete score analysis you removed from the thread. Anticipate hearing your edit even more

the one complete Giacchino score I have - namely, the season 3 finale for Lost.

ALMOST complete

[Datameister 2,037]

I dunno how a college student like you finds so much time to work on this!

Limited social life and relatively easy coursework this quarter.

I anticipate the return of the partial complete score analysis you removed from the thread. Anticipate hearing your edit even more

I hope to have both ready before too long!

the one complete Giacchino score I have - namely, the season 3 finale for Lost.

ALMOST complete

Haha, yes...why couldn't they have included Sawyer's theme and that other really short cue?!

[Jay 37,326]

Especially since Sawyer's Theme has been absent from all 4 OSTs, yes?

I hope the Season 5 OST comes out soon. Love Jacob's Theme!

[Datameister 2,037]

Indeed it has been. Lame! Well, there'll be no excuse for omitting it from the S5 OST...it got more mileage than usual with all the LaFleur stuff. And yes, I do hope that one comes out VERY soon. I'm pretty thrifty in my spending, but my brain doesn't have to waste any time debating with itself when a Lost soundtrack is announced. That's something I just buy.

[Jay 37,326]

Season 1 OST: March 2006

Season 2 OST: October 2006

Season 3 OST: May 2008

Season 4 OST: May 2009

Season 5 OST: May 2010?

I hope its 2 discs again. The S3 OST is nice and never drags

BUT, back on topic.

What's up with the Secondary Theme for Nero? Why have it play in the elevator scene with Robau and one scene with the Narada opening fire later? Seems like two random scenes to have a connecting theme for.

[Datameister 2,037]

I wouldn't classify it as a secondary theme for Nero, personally. I think for something to really be a true leitmotif, it needs to be used more than twice, y'know?

[Jay 37,326]

See I think appearing in 2 different cues makes it a lietmotif theme. I just don't know what those 2 scenes have in common to define the theme.

It's possible further uses of the theme were removed.....

Maybe Mr. Tilton can help us out

[Tallguy 3,381]

I wouldn't classify it as a secondary theme for Nero, personally. I think for something to really be a true leitmotif, it needs to be used more than twice, y'know?

That disqualifies "Luke and Leia" from Jedi, doesn't it?

[Jay 37,326]

L&L is heard in "Brother and Sister", "Leia's News", and "End Titles"

[Datameister 2,037]

Kinda, yeah. That's kind of a weird case...Williams wrote this long, well-developed melody and then he only used in one scene in the film. If not for the concert suite and its presence in the credits, it'd be pretty easy to write off as just being a melody for that particular cue, but it instead takes on a somewhat larger profile.

EDIT: My point is not that we can always say that a musical idea definitely is or isn't a real leitmotif just based on the number of times it's used...I'm just saying that the idea behind using leitmotifs is to create an easily identified musical "hook" for the audience, right? They may not realize it, but the repetition of similar material when a certain character or idea or place is onscreen helps solidify its identity. We're talking about a grand total of 32 seconds out of over an hour and twenty minutes of music heard in the film...and those 32 seconds are divided into a 20-second chunk and a 12-second chunk that are separated by almost 45 minutes of film. As far as I can tell, this is just a bit of sinister-sounding music that Giacchino wrote and liked and decided to use in a couple of scenes.

There's another theme for him that is used more than twice, though. It's heard mostly in the end battle music. Check out "Nero Death Experience" at 0:41, for instance. There's also a very short motif (e.g. between phrases of Nero's theme in "Red Matter") consisting usually of three dissonant notes that alternate back and forth pretty quickly. These obviously aren't as prominent as Nero's theme itself, but they're a lot more prominent than the theme in question, IMHO. I'll elaborate more on this stuff in my analysis, though.

[Henry B 50]

Williams wrote this long, well-developed melody and then he only used in one scene in the film. If not for the concert suite and its presence in the credits, it'd be pretty easy to write off as just being a melody for that particular cue, but it instead takes on a somewhat larger profile.

And it's important that Luke and Leia is heard in the end credits. Do you feel that Star Wars is complete at the last note of "Throne Room"? Of course not, you have to stay through the end credits. Granted, Jedi just reuses credits music from Star Wars, but it's the same idea. The Luke and Leia theme works for me. It only appears in two scenes, so? Is it simply impossible for a theme to do its job in two takes? By that token, Giacchino's use of the Courage theme was a failure.

[Datameister 2,037]

Oh boy, I've started something when I didn't mean to.

And it's important that Luke and Leia is heard in the end credits.

That's why I mentioned it, yes - I said it contributed to the theme having a rather larger profile.

Do you feel that Star Wars is complete at the last note of "Throne Room"? Of course not, you have to stay through the end credits.

Agreed again...but that doesn't convince me that "Nero's secondary theme" should be on this list.

Is it simply impossible for a theme to do its job in two takes? By that token, Giacchino's use of the Courage theme was a failure.

That's an unusually illogical argument coming from you, Henry...I expect better! What I'm saying is that if you've got a very brief melodic idea - six notes, really, in this case, plus a little repetition - and it's heard twice in the underscore of a rather long film, accounting for roughly half a percent of the music...yes, it's impossible for it to function in a leitmotivic sense, especially when there's already a prominent leitmotif for the character in question. If you've got a 40-year-old theme song to an intensely popular television series being played three times (plus another time in counterpoint to another theme) by a huge orchestra with nothing else to listen to and not much in the way of onscreen action, it's a slightly different scenario, don't you think?

[Henry B 50]

Oh, I never meant to say that "Nero's secondary theme" should be considered a leitmotif. No idea what it even is. I don't care much for the Nero/action music in this score. My point about the Courage theme is that there's really nothing leitmotivic about its function. It's used for nostalgia. In other words, it doesn't adhere strictly to Wagnerian rules (not that they're even Wagnerian, really).

[Datameister 2,037]

I win!

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Taken as an isolated movie, the use of the TOS theme and fanfares are not necessary.

However, Star Trek, though a reboot in many ways, is still part of the much larger story that has been built through TOS.

I don't think nostalgia alone is it's function in the score. It links the film in to the greater Star Trek canon musically. In the process of the movie, the crew effectively earn the theme in a way.

They have to prove themselves as a crew, they have to come together into the family we see in TOS (even in the alternate reality).

[Joe Brausam 214]

Leitmotiv is a dangerous word to throw around...particularly because it isn't being used properly here..

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The use of the TOS theme seems almost like an afterthought to me. And its use in the end credits seems rather trite to me, now.

[Jay 37,326]

Leitmotiv is a dangerous word to throw around...particularly because it isn't being used properly here..

Please enlighten us!

[Datameister 2,037]

Indeed!

[Tallguy 3,381]

Kinda, yeah. That's kind of a weird case...Williams wrote this long, well-developed melody and then he only used in one scene in the film. If not for the concert suite and its presence in the credits, it'd be pretty easy to write off as just being a melody for that particular cue, but it instead takes on a somewhat larger profile.

That was really all I was saying. There's a precedent for a larger theme to not be used very much.

Do you feel that Star Wars is complete at the last note of "Throne Room"? Of course not, you have to stay through the end credits. Granted, Jedi just reuses credits music from Star Wars, but it's the same idea. The Luke and Leia theme works for me. It only appears in two scenes, so? Is it simply impossible for a theme to do its job in two takes? By that token, Giacchino's use of the Courage theme was a failure.

Well, the end credits of SW embellish themes already heard in the score. Yes, I think Luke and Leia is an important theme. But it's funny that it is played longer in the end credits than it is in the film proper.

As for the Courage theme, obviously MG wasn't using it in the film for the same reasons that David Arnold didn't use the Bond theme in Casino Royale. It was saved for the wow finish. I would expect him to use it more extensively in a sequel. (And other composers have used the Courage themes very effectively in both the films and the television shows.)

The use of the TOS theme seems almost like an afterthought to me. And its use in the end credits seems rather trite to me, now.

I think its use in the end credits is the musical equivalent of Kirk finally wearing the yellow shirt and sitting in the big chair. Hardly an afterthought.

*cough* What's this? Nero has a secondary theme, you say?

Leitmotiv is a dangerous word to throw around...

(*Spits coffee*) That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. Especially since I heard it in a Kenneth Mars "Young Frankenstien" voice! ("A rrrrrrrii-ott iz a verrrrr-ee DAN-cher-ous ting!")

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The use of the TOS theme seems almost like an afterthought to me. And its use in the end credits seems rather trite to me, now.

I think its use in the end credits is the musical equivalent of Kirk finally wearing the yellow shirt and sitting in the big chair. Hardly an afterthought.

I can dig that, but it seems like an afterthought because there's no real hint of it beforehand. All we get is a couple of short phrases of the opening notes, which just seems like a missed opportunity to me. I would have liked to have seen maybe parts of the theme mixed in with Kirk's journey, with the full-blown theme finally coming when he becomes Captain, ala Casino Royale. That maybe would have turned it into a great score, or maybe not. But it's something I felt for me was missing that I think would have helped.

[Wojo 2,453]

I would have liked to have seen maybe parts of the theme mixed in with Kirk's journey, with the full-blown theme finally coming when he becomes Captain, ala Casino Royale.

Much like the statement of the fanfare at 0:55 of Cliff Eidelman's "Sign Off" in Star Trek VI. He hints at the Courage theme, then gradually develops and expands his own theme into a climactic triumph, before wrapping it up with the fanfare at the end.