Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan

[Williamsfan301 11]

Fair enough. The reason for my thinking PAL was slower is purely down to playing video games. When I was 16 I seem to remember reading in a magazine that the NTSC version of Street Fighter II was slightly faster than its PAL counterpart.

NTSC has 60 half-fields per second, PAL has 50. That means that if you play the same sequence of 50 half-frames directly on each system, it'll take a second in PAL, but less in NTSC. That's how video games used to work, when all computers of a brand were still pretty much the same and there was no reason to do actual time calculations in games. Therefore, NTSC games were faster than PAL games.

With movies, the 24 frames of a film have to be converted into PAL or NTSC format. With NTSC, they take alternatingly take three half-fields for one frame of film and two for the next frame (so-called 3:2 pull-down). This matches the 24 frames perfectly to the 60 half-fields. With PAL, they simply make two half-fields (i.e. one full frame) for each film frame. That matches the 24 frames to 48 PAL half-fields. The last two half-fields in that second will already be from the next second of film. This means that for film, PAL runs faster (about 4%), but smoothly, whereas NTSC runs at real speed (nearly... the 60 hfps aren't an exact number, it's actually 59.94) but is jerky.

In my opinion, the most important thing about Blu-Ray is that movies actually come in the original frame rate, without speedup and without pull-down.

I can make sandwiches

[artyjeffrey 20]

I was just consulting my Star Trek Encyclopedia, and it states this:

James T. Kirk's "5-year mission" lasted from 2264 to 2269 AD.

The V'ger attack featured in ST:TMP occurred in 2271 AD.

The events of TWOK occurred in 2285 AD.

So, according to Star Trek official chronology, there's supposed to be 14 years between ST:TMP and TWOK? I never knew this. At least that would cover for the sudden change in Starfleet uniforms and the Shat's weight gain!

[MissPadmé 17]

wow this Horner is one kind of a guy, I would not like to spend 5 minutes with!

[Williamsfan301 11]

I was just consulting my Star Trek Encyclopedia, and it states this:

James T. Kirk's "5-year mission" lasted from 2264 to 2269 AD.

The V'ger attack featured in ST:TMP occurred in 2271 AD.

The events of TWOK occurred in 2285 AD.

So, according to Star Trek official chronology, there's supposed to be 14 years between ST:TMP and TWOK? I never knew this. At least that would cover for the sudden change in Starfleet uniforms and the Shat's weight gain!

And the change in the look of the bridge too.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well at least it's not as bad as the change between IV & V, which should have only been a few weeks between films, according to Kirk.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Well at least it's not as bad as the change between IV & V, which should have only been a few weeks between films, according to Kirk.

Must be all those marshmellons

[Ollie 1,059]

Yes, but what does that have to do with the bridge change between films?

[Williamsfan301 11]

Yes, but what does that have to do with the bridge change between films?

OHHH....I thought you were talking about Kirk's physique. hehehehe....silly me.

Um...the bridge...yeah, maybe they have those things in stock?

[Ollie 1,059]

Well yes, that too.

Whoever did the makeup on V didn't do that good of a job, Shatner looked funny. Actually the entire cast looked weird, compared to the more natural look in ST: VI.

[artyjeffrey 20]

Speaking of Star Trek V, I remembered a funny story from the book "The Making of the Trek Films," from screenwriter David Loughery:

"In Star Trek V, one of the things that was sort of cut out of the movie is that the reason Captain Klaa was so passionate about chasing down Kirk was that he not only wanted that feather in his cap, but because there was still a bounty on Kirk's head. That was sort of the thematic thing that would have joined into the next movie as well. Then, they had this ridiculous sort of reshoot that was done without me in which Kirk comes aboard the Bird of Prey at the end. The original script is that he walks in, the chair turns and here's Spock. They have this big embrace, 'Please Captain, not in front of the Klingons,' and there's this big laugh. But they went back and shot this bit where Klaa is forced to step out and say, 'I apologize.' Their thinking there, I guess, is that he had gone off on his own after Kirk, rather than because Kirk was a wanted guy. That was something that bugged me. The only thing I do get out of it that's pleasurable is that during the reshoot, which was two or three months afterward, in the close-up of Bill, his face looks about 10 pounds fatter than in the previous shot. So there's a little bit of revenge there, although I don't blame Bill for that... or anybody, really. It's just one of those situations where they felt they had to plug a hole."

What a mess that movie was.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Well yes, that too.

Whoever did the makeup on V didn't do that good of a job, Shatner looked funny. Actually the entire cast looked weird, compared to the more natural look in ST: VI.

Natural? Chekov looked like Tim Curry's Frank N Furter in that movie.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Speaking of Star Trek V, I remembered a funny story from the book "The Making of the Trek Films," from screenwriter David Loughery:

"In Star Trek V, one of the things that was sort of cut out of the movie is that the reason Captain Klaa was so passionate about chasing down Kirk was that he not only wanted that feather in his cap, but because there was still a bounty on Kirk's head. That was sort of the thematic thing that would have joined into the next movie as well. Then, they had this ridiculous sort of reshoot that was done without me in which Kirk comes aboard the Bird of Prey at the end. The original script is that he walks in, the chair turns and here's Spock. They have this big embrace, 'Please Captain, not in front of the Klingons,' and there's this big laugh. But they went back and shot this bit where Klaa is forced to step out and say, 'I apologize.' Their thinking there, I guess, is that he had gone off on his own after Kirk, rather than because Kirk was a wanted guy. That was something that bugged me. The only thing I do get out of it that's pleasurable is that during the reshoot, which was two or three months afterward, in the close-up of Bill, his face looks about 10 pounds fatter than in the previous shot. So there's a little bit of revenge there, although I don't blame Bill for that... or anybody, really. It's just one of those situations where they felt they had to plug a hole."

What a mess that movie was.

The biggest problem with that movie is that it tried to do too much. About the only thing we got out of that was another Jerry Goldsmith Star Trek score. First movie soundtrack I ever bought too.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Natural? Chekov looked like Tim Curry's Frank N Furter in that movie.

Must be ze radiation?

[Hitch 57]

What a mess that movie was.

Admiral Hayes disagrees

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Some discussion going around that it was all just Kirk having a nightmare from the point they go to sleep around the campfire, to the very end where they're back singing "Row, Row, Row Your Boat".

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Just like Alien 3 and 4 were hypersleep nightmares.

[Datameister 2,042]

Did I hear that right!!? Did he call Jerry Goldsmith "Joey"?

Nope. Just the accent. He definitely said Jerry.

Also...I slowed a bit of the audio down to the correct speed in Audacity, and WOW, his voice sounded a lot more tolerable.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I've the Horner clip uploaded here

Does it have story spoilers? I haven't seen the film yet. (Crucify me)

[Hitch 57]

Yes it contains spoilers. Shame on you for not seeing the movie yet.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

He never saw the film. What do you think of his solution?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was unique...

[TownerFan 4,983]

Horner thinks he is singing the Khan Theme, but actually he's singing the Klingon Theme.

Hilarious!

[Hitch 57]

We all knew his lies would catch him out someday

[Williamsfan301 11]

Let me show you something that will make you feel......young. As when the world was new.

[Hitch 57]

Shut up, Wesley!

[Williamsfan301 11]

If the Admiral can't see the facts for himself, then with all due respect, he's as blind as a Tiberian bat!

[Trent Hoyt 13]

I did nothing

[Maestro 147]

Interesting that both Horner in this interview and Giacchino in an FSM video interview said that they felt Star Trek was always about friendship. Is this a common belief among trekkies, or only among the admitted Star Trek-naive composers?

[Trent Hoyt 13]

TOS is definitely about the friendship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Its unfortunate that the only movie that really showed that friendship was TFF.

[Datameister 2,042]

Interesting that both Horner in this interview and Giacchino in an FSM video interview said that they felt Star Trek was always about friendship. Is this a common belief among trekkies, or only among the admitted Star Trek-naive composers?

Star Trek at its best is about friendship.

[mahler3 478]

The film does look and sound stunning and the score is more reasonant than ever through its new 5.1 mix.

That first glimpse of Genesis is far more prounounced than it ever was, a reminder of how superior it looks compared to many of today's CGI shots.

By the way, for those that have SkyHD, the new Hitchcock prints look gorgeous (especially Vertigo with those vibrant colours) so check them out if you can!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sorry, but Trek II's planet shots always looked a bit ropey.

[mahler3 478]

You think? The look and feel of those shots work for me, reminds me of those Hook Neverland shots which also look good - i'm guessing you'll disagree?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Those look far to shiny and picturebook-like to be realsrtic, but I guess that was the point.

Star Trek (2009)'s planets look amazing.

[mahler3 478]

Indeed they do, no CGI's flaws in that movie at all, top stuff!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well the snow monsters....

[mahler3 478]

I didn't notice any serious flaws!!!

Well, it was scarier than the dreaded Rancor!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The whole concept of a big, RED monster on a white ice planet.....

[mahler3 478]

Thought you meant the white wooly creature, the red monster that eats the latter i'm guessing has a specially enhanced shell that protects him from sub-zero temperatures or had bad acne (but i'm no expert!)

[Hitch 57]

By the way, for those that have SkyHD, the new Hitchcock prints look gorgeous (especially Vertigo with those vibrant colours) so check them out if you can!

Yes I quite enjoyed the SkyHD releases of my movies. I'll get my royalty cheque from you later, Tim

[Williamsfan301 11]

TOS is definitely about the friendship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Its unfortunate that the only movie that really showed that friendship was TFF.

You don't think TSFS was about friendship?

[Wojo 2,453]

That whole movie revolved around friendship. Sarek said it sublimely with something to the effect of "two friends, one living, one not, yet both in pain." If Spock and Bones had not been Kirk's two best friends, he would not have risked his career to save them both.

And there would have been no movie. "Star Trek III: We're Not Gonna Look for Spock." I'm not digging that title very much.

Maybe V was the only movie that consisted of nothing else besides the friendship of the proud trio. Take out three buddies roasting marshmelons in Yosemite, and standing by each others' side while one BFF's half-brother has his day on a starship, and what do you have?

*crickets chirping*

[Ollie 1,059]

Yes, it would have been called Star Trek III: The Search for a New Science Officer or Star Trek III: Saavik Takes Spock's Place.

[Wojo 2,453]

Yes, it would have been called Star Trek III: The Search for a New Science Officer or Star Trek III: Saavik Takes Spock's Place.

Which is strange, because it wasn't too long afterwards when Saavik bought a bar...

[Jay 37,355]

Why didn't Kirstie Alley come back for ST3?

[Wojo 2,453]

Why didn't Kirstie Alley come back for ST3?

The Search For Spock featured the character of Saavik even more than the previous movie, in which she was introduced. Unfortunately, Paramount was unable to convince Kirstie Alley to reprise the role.

Kirstie Alley: "They offered me less money than they did for Star Trek II, so I figured they weren’t very interested in me for Saavik."

Leonard Nimoy: "It looked like everything would work out, so when the script was ready, we sent it along for Kirstie and her agent to read. Shortly thereafter, her agent called us back and said, ‘Look, we didn’t realize how large a roll Saavik was going to have in this film. So we’re withdrawing our earlier figure. Here’s what we have to have now. . . ." and he quoted a price that was so far beyond our reach that it left me slack-jawed. I’m sure neither he nor Kirstie realized it, but the salary he wanted for her second Star Trek appearance was higher than what was being paid to DeForest Kelley after seventeen years." Instead, the role was re-cast and actress Robin Curtis made her film debut as Saavik in The Search For Spock.

Saavik was written as half-Vulcan and half-Romulan in Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan, so Kirstie Alley displayed some emotion in that film in her portrayal of the character - such as cursing during the Kobayashi Maru simulation and having tears in her eyes at Spock’s funeral. However, the scene establishing Saavik’s heritage was edited out of the film before release to theaters. At Leonard Nimoy’s direction, Robin Curtis portrayed Saavik as a full Vulcan in The Search For Spock and Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

http://mario.lapam.mo.it/films/st3.htm

[Jay 37,355]

Interesting.

And sad they couldn't negotiate a price somewhere between each party's initial offer

Stupid to change her from a half vulcan to a full vulcan, too. What's the point in that

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The change doesn't bother me that much.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yeah the whole Kirstie Alley wants more money thing was known at the time of the film's release. I didn't realize she was portryed as a full Vulcan in III & IV. Although Curtis did play the character closer to a full Vulcan.

For Star Trek VI, they wanted to bring Saavik back and have her as the traitor.

But after some debate, Lt. Valeris was created instead.

[Wojo 2,453]

I thought it was kinda obvious that she was full Vulcan in III because of how deadpan calm she was telling Kirk that his son had been killed, when she had cried at Spock's funeral. I know that Spock was her mentor and quite famous, while she hadn't known David that long. But the change doesn't bother me at all because it's not integral to either story's plot, and I started watching those films many years after they were made, so any problems I have with them are moot.

I'm not sure how I'd feel if Saavik had been the traitor in VI instead of new Vulcan bad guy du jour Valeris. We'll never know. I think they missed their chance by not showing any kind of romance between her and David in II and III. If his death had deprived her of a chance at romance, and she felt the need to avenge his death by provoking war with the Klingons, that would have made some sense. It would have provided a contrast for Kirk, his father, to reject open revenge for the sake of interstellar war and his battle-hardened maturity. As it stood, it would have been...illogical for Saavik to turn traitor. Besides, the number of years that elapse between II/III and VI certainly would have given Saavik a little more maturity, past the point where she'd find joy in flying fast in spacedock or require a sincere heart-to-heart with Spock about logic and the future. Creating Valeris let them "reboot" the character of Saavik, so to speak, by providing a less experienced and more impressionable young Vulcan to fashion into their traitor.

Frankly, I wonder if showing Saavik and Valeris as Vulcan helmsmen was a waste of their logical talent. Unless she was more of Ops than helmsman, helmsman is just another path to command (like Sulu), and Vulcans themselves were tired of being stereotyped for science officers.