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The Official Intrada Thread


Trent B

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For some serious answers...

 

- 13th Warrior seems like a reasonable guess (did Revell write anything not on the 1-CD promo?)

- Timeline (with a rejected Goldsmith score and a final Brian Tyler score) could be in the equation


And just thinking of films that have had 2 CD’s worth of music by one composer and 1 CD by another, Avengers: Age of Ultron does fit that bill perfectly. 

 

Also worth noting that the clue doesn’t specify that one score was rejected...

 

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5 minutes ago, Stark said:

- Timeline (with a rejected Goldsmith score and a final Brian Tyler score) could be in the equation

 

Owned in perpetuity by Varese

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30 minutes ago, Stark said:

- 13th Warrior seems like a reasonable guess (did Revell write anything not on the 1-CD promo?)

 

 

Going by this, Revell's is one disc, and Goldsmith's plus alternates (plus original album?) would be two discs. Pretty good potential candidate.

 

I'd be interested mainly for improved sound overall and alternates/revisions.

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Well, 13th Warrior  is Varese territory too but I don't think it's ever been confirmed that they have it in perpetuity (and not according to this thread at FSM). And even if they did, I'm making an assumption that the new guys would be more cooperative and open to licensing arrangements than Townson was.

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3 hours ago, WampaRat said:

It is a really good presentation. But I’d be curious if there’s more music that couldn’t fit on the promo that was written.
(The night battle on the beach with the fire ball things and the scene where Hector fights Patroclus would be cool to hear - assuming Yared scored them)

Never saw the film but there are a couple of YT vids with score restore

3 hours ago, Stu said:

Why did Elmer Bernstein have so many rejected scores in the last 20 years of his career?  He wasn't getting the respect he deserved in the latter part of his career it seems to me.

Maybe for the same reason John Barry kept getting rejected?

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14 hours ago, Amer said:

Mancini told a friend of mine when they met up in an elevator that he enjoyed working on LIFEFORCE. "They just don't give me projects like these.I can do them too!"

 

Lol.Talk about being typecast!

 

 

 

I had asked Roger on FSM board if TROY itself could be reissued  as a 2CD set. Unfortunately no chance at all. 

Yeah I think that was a very poor seller if I remember correctly. Curious that they couldn't feature the entry to Troy cues due to the Britten references and yet the same material is reprised later on in the battle sequence. Copyright and crediting is a strange thing.

 

Karol

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If it is indeed a 2 disc complete score and a single disc rejected score, it could potentially be Kamens What Dreams May Come, with Morricones rejected score. While I don't know how much music is unreleased, digging around sabam I would a listing for What Dreams May Come at 113 mins (although I'll happily admit to not understanding how listings on that site work). So a 2 disc would cover the score and alternates or the OST pretty easily.

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On 27/7/2022 at 10:24 PM, OneBuckFilms said:

Peraps a reissue of Horner's TROY on 2 CDs, then 1 CD with Gabriel Yared's famously rejected score?

When I talked to Gabriel Yared last year he said it would not be released, nor does he care if it ever does (I believe he does care, just doesn’t think it will ever see the light of day in his lifetime). The story behind the rejection is not very nice as he told me.

The Silva Screen World Soundtrack Awards Troy Suite had already come out by then (our conversation, that is). But it would be great if it did happen. The suite is great btw (and there’s the bootleg as well). 

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Yared released the music on his own- that's where we got the promo- probably his intended soundtrack album.

FSM did an extensive contemporary interview which covered the controversy efficiently.

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So now you’re questioning the composer who wrote the music? That’s a new level of pointless hostility even for you. I talked with him for an hour, I’m sure you know better what he said.

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This has been the most un-solveable clue in a while I think

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Say what?!😳😗

 

Forum rules prevent me from giving your

'comment' the response it deserves.

 

Btw im a huge Yared fan

 

 

8 hours ago, JTW said:

So now you’re questioning the composer who wrote the music? That’s a new level of pointless hostility even for you. I talked with him for an hour, I’m sure you know better what he said.

.....

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Batman Begins was extremely collaborative, there’s no way it could be separated into two releases. And Zimmer’s music deserves more credit than that he says and opens the floodgates.

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13 hours ago, Jay said:

This has been the most un-solveable clue in a while I think

Its the easiest. Just do the math right. I used your method. Using the remaining names from the composer  list that Roger provided.

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On 29/07/2022 at 4:16 AM, JTW said:

So now you’re questioning the composer who wrote the music? That’s a new level of pointless hostility even for you. I talked with him for an hour, I’m sure you know better what he said.

 

I believe you misinterpreted Bruce's post.

 

He wasn't disagreeing with you that Yared told you that there would never be a legal, commercial, for-sale release of his rejected score.


He was stating that a promo album leaked out years ago containing his score.


I personally have no idea if it was Yared or somebody else who assembled that promo album, nor if it was truly distributed for honest promotional reasons or inadvertently leaked out, but he wasn't commenting on Yared's future intentions or wishes for the music.

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I believe Filmtracks mentioned that Yared had at least some samples of sorts (or maybe the whole promo even) on his website before WB sent a cease & desist on it. Of course, someone more knowledgeable could clarify what it was that happened there, since I'm not exactly sure if the archived copies of the website would work given the discontinuation of Flash.

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I believe I can vaguely remember there being a few clips on his website, yes. No idea what format they were in, but I've also heard that he got in trouble for having them up.

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The Promo Album I believe was a collection of MP3s Gabriel Yared put up on his site due to his frustraction at how he lost the job to James Horner after working on the score.

 

Given the rumored circumstances, I don't blame him. He apparently wasn't told until very late in the game, and it was handled extremely badly by the director etc.

 

If I recall correctly, the score files were only up a very short time before he had to take it down, and it may have been a ceace-and-desist type message from the studio.

 

I also recall that he had trouble finding work for a while after that.

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7 hours ago, OneBuckFilms said:

If I recall correctly, the score files were only up a very short time before he had to take it down, and it may have been a ceace-and-desist type message from the studio.

 

If i recall correctly, the score was never properly completed but consisted of rough mixes and still missing elements (choral or otherwise). The bootleg album was probably distributed by Yared (it was around the same time), but he probably didn't put it on Napster - these things have a way of turning up eventually. 

 

And while it may have been not a career boost move, it's equally foolish to think keeping a lid on the whole affair would have been, either. In the end, it made everyone involved in it look bad, WB, Petersen, Horner and Yared in the sense that Hollywood found his magnum opus less worthy than a second-hand late rewrite. 

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In retrospect both parties may have been able to handle it a bit better, but there was no doubt a lot of presure on the studio's PR team to avoid any negative publicity from the rejection, and what Yared did would've fallen squarely into negative PR, particularly if his notes accompanying the clips were criticising the studio or filmmakers in any way.

 

But on the flipside, it was a horrible thing to do to Yared (if the process of rejection was indeed handled badly) and Yared has every right to speak out about what happened. You'd think that instead of Petersen panicking and just rejecting, he could've taken his concerns to Yared and asked for some revisions. If the test audiences thought it was to overbearing, take out the choir or do some remixing.

 

I could see Yared's score making it out if it wasn't actually associated with the film and marketed completely as a concept album.

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For what it's worth, both composers addressed the issue some years later and neither of them had a good time. Horner admitted his score ultimately didn't improve the film any.

 

Karol

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WB had another PR nightmare on their hand a few years later with '300', and on the whole i applaud both Yared and Goldenthal on standing their ground. It might not appear 'professional' to big studios, but this euphemism basically just covers bad ongoing practice. And Petersen's handling of the AFO Newman rejection was, by all accounts, as bad as the Yared case.

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The Goldenthal bit I still can't comprehend. It was unethical of both the filmmakers and the studio. There's nothing to debate here.

 

Karol 

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13 hours ago, Jaaaackified said:

one very improbable project

the live action Ghost in the Shell

first version by Clint Mansell

second version by Lorne Balfe

 

I'm not sure if there could be 3 CDs worth of music in it... Not to mention the music was (imo) very weak to begin with, but I would be curious to see some of Mansell's score get an official release.

Alternatively, what about Ad Astra? There were more than 2 composers involved in that case, but Max Richter and Lorne Balfe still remain the two main ones, and there should be enough material for 3 CDs.

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1 hour ago, Imperivm said:

I'm not sure if there could be 3 CDs worth of music in it... Not to mention the music was (imo) very weak to begin with, but I would be curious to see some of Mansell's score get an official release.

Alternatively, what about Ad Astra? There were more than 2 composers involved in that case, but Max Richter and Lorne Balfe still remain the two main ones, and there should be enough material for 3 CDs.

 

the distribution right aside (anything Max Richter would go through Deutsche Grammophone), there will be some filtering to do as some additional composers (Nils Frahms, for example), including Max Richter himself used per-existing tracks from their other works

Furthermore I think it's a case like White Fang (Poledouris + Zimmer), which is a 2-CD release including both composers' complete contribution. I doubt if there is enough for a 3CD release. 

 

Oooh, can it be a White Fang re-release including the previous 2-CD version and a promo album from the time of film release (if there is one such album)?

 

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7 hours ago, crocodile said:

For what it's worth, both composers addressed the issue some years later and neither of them had a good time. Horner admitted his score ultimately didn't improve the film any.

 

Karol

Some directors are just a nightmare for composers. The kicker is that after all that, the director’s cut replaces Horner’s score with Elfman’s Planet Of The Apes, of all things.

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18 hours ago, Jaaaackified said:

the distribution right aside (anything Max Richter would go through Deutsche Grammophone), there will be some filtering to do as some additional composers (Nils Frahms, for example), including Max Richter himself used per-existing tracks from their other works

Furthermore I think it's a case like White Fang (Poledouris + Zimmer), which is a 2-CD release including both composers' complete contribution. I doubt if there is enough for a 3CD release. 

 

Oooh, can it be a White Fang re-release including the previous 2-CD version and a promo album from the time of film release (if there is one such album)?

I can't really speak for distribution right or White Fang, I know next to nothing about both.

 

As for Ad Astra, the situation with additional composers might still be solveable. For what we know, Nils Frahm's contribution was only the usage of the pre-existing track "Says", although it is possible that either it was adapted for the film version or even that he did more (but it hasn't been confirmed afaik). The other composer Robert Charles Mann already released his (mostly unused) score on his own digitally.

Thus, I think it could be possible to make a Richter & Balfe only expanded release. The leak of Balfe's score I think reaches almost 2 hours of music, and surely there is more to Richter's score that is still unreleased so I think there is enough material to work with.

 

But as you pointed out, it's quite problematic and unlikely. I'm still puzzled about making 2 separate albums for one film.

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18 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

he kicker is that after all that, the director’s cut replaces Horner’s score with Elfman’s Planet Of The Apes, of all things.

wtf? :D

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On 03/08/2022 at 9:52 AM, crocodile said:

For what it's worth, both composers addressed the issue some years later and neither of them had a good time. Horner admitted his score ultimately didn't improve the film any.

 

Karol

 

Out of interest, where did he state this? I've only heard his interview with Schweiger where he trashes Yared's score and saw the assignment as a challenge to see how much music he could write.

 

Although I'd personally have no doubt that he would also have been offered a ton of money to do it. He does quip that he wouldn't have done Petersen's next film (Poseidon) even if he were offered $10 million so I'm guessing the replacement for Troy was extremely expensive.

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26 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Out of interest, where did he state this? I've only heard his interview with Schweiger where he trashes Yared's score and saw the assignment as a challenge to see how much music he could write.

 

Although I'd personally have no doubt that he would also have been offered a ton of money to do it. He does quip that he wouldn't have done Petersen's next film (Poseidon) even if he were offered $10 million so I'm guessing the replacement for Troy was extremely expensive.

The link used to be here. It was a special with various composer clips.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03bfjqv

 

Not sure if I still have the file somewhere. If I find it I will send it to you.

 

Karol

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1 hour ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

wtf? :D

 

Yeah, the director's cut used immense amount of new shots and sequences, greatly extended the film length, and eventually made Horner's music not fitting the pace of the movie, so music from Elfman's Plant of the Apes was used to fill in blanks

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22 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Here it is.

 

 

oh gosh this is hilarious. I miss JH. :( 

at 40:20 :


"I don't think I've written a score that is an ostinato pattern with a fixed bass point and the bass point gets big and you add more strings to it (an octave higher etc.) and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. I … try not to do that."

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25 minutes ago, Stu said:

Somebody find the interview with him bashing Alan Menken.  Classic!

for winning 2 Academy Awards for Beauty And The Beast? basically claiming that the score mainly consists of orchestrated song material (not 100% wrong tbh…) :D

 

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1 hour ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

for winning 2 Academy Awards for Beauty And The Beast? basically claiming that the score mainly consists of orchestrated song material (not 100% wrong tbh…) :D

 

He does praise Hook though.

 

Karol

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Great video, but he's pretty diplomatic about his Menken criticism there.  I swear I've seen another video from around the same time that's more of a one-on-one interview where he's... less diplomatic.  Maybe I imagined it.  Either way, always love his candidness.

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2 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

for winning 2 Academy Awards for Beauty And The Beast? basically claiming that the score mainly consists of orchestrated song material (not 100% wrong tbh…) 

In opposite to Horner, Menken at least just orchestrated songs from the same movie for the score.

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Horner basically tiptoes around the open secret that a handful of ghostwriters did the main chores on Beauty.

 

There recently was a LA Times interview from around the time of 'Casper' linked here, where he - presumably with a straight face - claimed to have written a restrained and simple score for 'Legends of the Fall'. Which is one of the contradictions of the century. But if you dig deep enough, you'll find Horner the king of such contradictions. 

 

My favourite was one he did together with Brian Grazer about 'A Beautiful Mind', where they both have a laugh about all the other film composers who always will use the same notes - not so with James!

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