Rate "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"!

[crocodile 7,990]

The problem with this score is that you can hear it's another Williams' score that slavishly follows an Spielbergian action movie. In the end, it's sad to see Williams wasting his last breath on trivial factory work.

Alex

I agree. But then again it would be particularly naive to think that he would write something groundbreaking for a third sequel in this, very limited in scoring possibilites, series. And to think Williams would carbon copy his old style would be even more naive. As it stands score is almost like an anthology of styles from the last 30 years. I'm glad it is as good as it is, given the Williams' age. It probably can't compare with his best, that's true. But then again what can?

I listened to the complete bootleg recently and it is very listenable. There is a section, starting from the scene in the asylum and finishing at the camp, which is probably rather less impressive. But that's about 10-15 miinutes of boredom in an otherwise strong 2-hour score.

Karol

[Williamsfan301 11]

0 and 0. I re-programmed the poll so it was possible to vote correctly.

You cheated.

[Josh500 1,615]

The only suspenseful moment I can think of is when they run down the hiding stairs. The music there is awfully similar to one of Williams' older cues, but at the moment I don't remember which one.

You mean the spiral staircase, right? (Not the big staircase at the front of the temple.)

If so, I know what you mean. Sounds quasi-comedic, almost like "On the Conveyor Belt," I thought.

Yes, that, the complete Jungle Chase, and the Russian military cue the very beginning are the best unreleased cues, IMO.

The problem with this score is that you can hear it's another Williams score that slavishly follows an Spielbergian action movie. In the end, it's sad to see Williams wasting his last breath on trivial factory work.

Alex

<_<

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I hate that guy.

Spielberg has proven he's got good taste in sticking with JW, but considering David Koepp, he's also proven he's got bad taste.

I wish Spielberg would collaborate with Frank Darabont...

Well his script for the Indy IV was even more outrageous than the Koepp one. Some good things in it but also some really silly stuff that could compete with "nuke the fridge".

That and the fact that he truly believed he had written the pinnacle of Indy scrpits

[Josh500 1,615]

That and the fact that he truly believed he had written the pinnacle of Indy scrpits

No, I don't think he believed that.

But what pisses me off is that he says complacently, "I know this sucks, but families will like it!" or something to that effect. <_<

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I was talking about Darabont.

That he was so pissed off when they kicked him, just screams that he really believes he wrote a good script. I think he also said he was very proud of his script.

[Josh500 1,615]

I was talking about Darabont.

That he was so pissed off when they kicked him, just screams that he really believes he wrote a good script. I think he also said he was very proud of his script.

Well, I have read some parts of the Darabont script, but I don't think that was as bad as what Koepp turned in.

[Ollie 1,059]

It wasn't. A little fine trimming of Darabount's script and we would have had a much better IJ film than what we got.

[Josh500 1,615]

Yes, I can't imagine how it could have been much worse than what we got.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

It wasn't. A little fine trimming of Darabount's script and we would have had a much better IJ film than what we got.

You could say the same about Koepp's

[Josh500 1,615]

It wasn't. A little fine trimming of Darabount's script and we would have had a much better IJ film than what we got.

You could say the same about Koepp's

No.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

It wasn't. A little fine trimming of Darabount's script and we would have had a much better IJ film than what we got.

You could say the same about Koepp's

No.

yes, erase the fridge, the chipmunks and the monkeys and you have everyone happy.

Darabont also had monkeys, an unlikely fight over airplanes, indy eaten alive by a giant snake (snakes do not eat alive prey. or at least live prey cappable enough to burst out of them. I mean indy should have been a) poisoned or b) crushed and suffocated )

and both had their share of bad and corny dialogue.

And aliens. that is one of the things i have seen common people complain about.

[Incanus 5,713]

It wasn't. A little fine trimming of Darabount's script and we would have had a much better IJ film than what we got.

You could say the same about Koepp's

No.

yes, erase the fridge, the chipmunks and the monkeys and you have everyone happy.

Darabont also had monkeys, an unlikely fight over airplanes, indy eaten alive by a giant snake (snakes do not eat alive prey. or at least live prey cappable enough to burst out of them. I mean indy should have been a) poisoned or b) crushed and suffocated )

and both had their share of bad and corny dialogue.

And aliens. that is one of the things i have seen common people complain about.

In Darabont's script the aliens are evil, Indy shoots at the damn thing and says something corny and patriotic more appropriate for a Schwarzenegger film. And Indy survives 2 nuclear sized blasts in one movie. "Nuke the fridge" is in Darabont script as well and in the finale the Alien ship crashes and explodes like a nuke while Indy and company supposedly escape when they are 10 yards away. Riiiight. Wonderful stuff.

[Delorean90 42]

Yes.

Yes, I can't imagine how it could have been much worse than what we got.

Um, the Star Wars Prequels? Yeah.

Honestly, there's a lot of good in the script, the thing that really bugs me is how many fumbles there are, where it could've easily gone into something good or substantial and doesn't. The novel really shows this up.

For example the truck scene.

Movie Version:

Indy: I think we both knew, Marion: it wasn't going to work.

Marion: You didn't know that; why didn't you ever talk to me about it?

Indy: Because we never had an argument I won!

Huh? Okay, now, Novel Version:

Indy: I think we both knew, Marion: it wasn't going to work. Who wants to be married to someone who's going to be gone half the time?

Marion: I did!

Whoa! Talk about using the short time you have for this in a much more constructive way! Talk about showing the real character development.

The biggest problem with the film is that Spielberg and Lucas were sticking too closely to their 50's B safari movie template at the expense of the character development. So we didn't get to really see Indy and Marion really working things out, and we get stuff where, when Mutt asks, "I don't know, why didn't you--Dad?", instead of getting some actual character depth, everyone just laughs.

The funny thing is, despite all of that, I really really enjoy the film. I just wish they'd given as much attention to their characters as they did their template.

[Josh500 1,615]

Yes, I can't imagine how it could have been much worse than what we got.

Um, the Star Wars Prequels? Yeah.

I'm not going to turn into an Indy 4 basher at this late date, but I think all 3 Star Wars prequels (yes, even AotC) turned out better than Indy 4.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I think Indy IV connects better with the trilogy than the prequels with the OT.

I may even find indy iv more satisfying to 'add to the collection' as it's closer to the originals than the prequels.

And i love the prequels...

[Diego 21]

The Phantom Menace is the only prequel that kinda fits with the OT. AOTC and ROTS look too much like videogames. One day like 3 years ago I watched ROTS and Star Wars back to back, and it doesn't work, you don't feel Star Wars is the continuation of the story at all.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I really have grown to love the KOTCS score!!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yes, I can't imagine how it could have been much worse than what we got.

I stopped reading it the moment Indy got swallowed whole by an impossibly sized snake.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Yes, I can't imagine how it could have been much worse than what we got.

I stopped reading it the moment Indy got swallowed whole by an impossibly sized snake.

Its not the size, anacondas are big, and there have been bigger prehistorical snakes.

Its just that he is not killed in the experience.

[MSM 126]

Score -- I'll go with a 3.5

Movie: I loved it until the first prairie dog appeared - zero.

[Josh500 1,615]

I really have grown to love the KOTCS score!!

Now that means something coming from Darth Sidious.

Yes, I can't imagine how it could have been much worse than what we got.

I stopped reading it the moment Indy got swallowed whole by an impossibly sized snake.

Its not the size, anacondas are big, and there have been bigger prehistorical snakes.

Its just that he is not killed in the experience.

Watch this: an anaconda swallowed a hippo whole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MzDo5aEib4

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Yes, I can't imagine how it could have been much worse than what we got.

I stopped reading it the moment Indy got swallowed whole by an impossibly sized snake.

Its not the size, anacondas are big, and there have been bigger prehistorical snakes.

Its just that he is not killed in the experience.

Watch this: an anaconda swallowed a hippo whole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MzDo5aEib4

That's a Capibara, a big rodent about 70 Kg.

And IT IS DEAD. The anaconda kills suffocanting its prey with his body rings and then swallows them whole. Venomous snakes may eat whole live prey, but they will never escape as their nervous sistem is paralised.

[Henry B 50]

But Luke, I'm sure you're fine with the whole fridge thing in His Holiness, Sir Lucas's final production of the film. Being eaten by a snake is scientifically impossible (even though the snake in question is unlike any real snake, having been enlarged by the crystal skull's powers), but surviving a nuclear blast is fine.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

There's no point where you think our heroes will really be harmed in the film

That is honestly my biggest problem with this film. Of the entire film, I felt only the tent scene (the one "musical storytelling" moment of all Indiana Jones films), the warehouse sequence (I love the fight between Indiana Jones and Dovchenko), the ant scene (though that may be for personal reasons), and the end of the Jungle Chase (when Irina nearly pushes Indiana Jones and others off the cliff) made me feel real tension for the characters. I really wish Steven Spielberg tightened the Jungle Chase down.

Indy getting shot in the arm by a Nazi is much scarier than Indy surrounded by CGI Ants.

That depends on one's life experiences....

One of the very best moments in the score is opening up the alien bag in Area 51. Still unreleased.

I agree.

[Josh500 1,615]

This movie is not that bad... I rewatched (parts of it) last night.

HA! There, I said it.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Indy getting shot in the arm by a Nazi is much scarier than Indy surrounded by CGI Ants.

That depends on one's life experiences...

Indeed, whenever I'm surrounded by CGI ants, I long to be shot in the arm by a Nazi just to make it all go away.

[Josh500 1,615]

Indy getting shot in the arm by a Nazi is much scarier than Indy surrounded by CGI Ants.

That depends on one's life experiences...

Indeed, whenever I'm surrounded by CGI ants, I long to be shot in the arm by a Nazi just to make it all go away.

The man's got a point!

[crumbs 14,305]

Stop complaining about the giant snakes in Darabont's script...

1. The script goes on to explain that the presence of the crystal skull causes all kinds of paranormal phenomena, including giant animals, bugs, etc.

2. The Indy films were always pulpy in this kinda way...

[Delorean90 42]

In Darabont's script, Indy doesn't have a refrigerator to protect him from the snake's digestive system.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

4 for each.

[Datameister 2,037]

I just listened to the complete score again yesterday. Not a masterpiece in my book, but still infinitely better than so many of y'all make it out to be.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I just listened to the complete score again yesterday. Not a masterpiece in my book, but still infinitely better than so many of y'all make it out to be.

They say "y'all" in Cali?

[Datameister 2,037]

They say "y'all" in Cali?

I can if I want to!

[Red 75]

2. The Indy films were always pulpy in this kinda way...

Actually they weren't. They didn't have King Kong-style giant creatures in them.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

But Luke, I'm sure you're fine with the whole fridge thing in His Holiness, Sir Lucas's final production of the film.

Nope. I would have prefered that the house had had a nuclear shelter or something of the effect.

Being eaten by a snake is scientifically impossible (even though the snake in question is unlike any real snake, having been enlarged by the crystal skull's powers), but surviving a nuclear blast is fine.

It is not fine, but in Darabont's it is TWO nuclear blasts.

And it is scientifically possible to be eaten by a snake.

It is not scientifically possible lo live in a cartoon world where you are eaten alive, by a snake.

[Henry B 50]

Well, Luke, I just wonder why you're hammering the science of Darabont's script, despite that it is no more ridiculous than that of Koepp's, but ignoring the plot and characterizations.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Im just saying that darabont's script has as much crap as koepps. And the latter many faults.

And mostly it was my inner vet not 'standing' seeing people accepting snakes eating kicking prey.

Oh and the character(ization) in darabont's were rather meh.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I think Darabont's is hardly any better than Koepp's. Any 'refinement' you apply to the former can almost be used wholesale on the latter and would have given us a superior movie either way. If indeed that the leaked Darabont script was a final or close to final draft, then dare I say it Lucas actually showed a smidgen of good taste in shooting it down.

[Ollie 1,059]

I know we did all of this last summer but since it's been dredged up again....

Darabont's script did need some touching up, show me a script that doesn't. However it felt much more like an Indiana Jones film than the pathetic version we got.

It addressed many things that Koep's script had but failed to do anything with. The large snake was part of the explenation for the giant ants, he put in his script the reason why the animals were large.

He also kept the fact that Indy was under investigation by the government throughout the story. The dialogue between Marion and Indy actually made sense.

And I found the charaterizations to be much more interesting.

[Delorean90 42]

I still haven't finished reading the Darabont script, but from what I hear, it seems to me the best case scenario would've been some kind of hybrid of the two scripts.

[Wojo 2,453]

I wish I hadn't voted 1 on each choice to be a smartass last week, because I watched this again over the weekend. In two settings, granted, and between 1 and 3 AM, but it really wasn't as bad as I remember it. If you check your brain at the door, it's kind of entertaining. And the music works well in the movie.

I still don't understand why the ants don't follow the Soviet soldiers down the ropes over the cliff, but no biggie. I suppose the story needed a hard break between sequences, and there really was no way to make one, short of flamethrowers or jumping off the cliff, and Indy and crew had already used up one of those choices.

[Josh500 1,615]

I wish I hadn't voted 1 on each choice to be a smartass last week, because I watched this again over the weekend. In two settings, granted, and between 1 and 3 AM, but it really wasn't as bad as I remember it. If you check your brain at the door, it's kind of entertaining. And the music works well in the movie.

I still don't understand why the ants don't follow the Soviet soldiers down the ropes over the cliff, but no biggie. I suppose the story needed a hard break between sequences, and there really was no way to make one, short of flamethrowers or jumping off the cliff, and Indy and crew had already used up one of those choices.

Does anybody remember the MacGyver episode with the ants???

I thought that was better done that this Indy 4 scene... althought not better scored!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

It doesn't matter who wrote the script , koeppels or Dupont , they just shouldn't have done this film.

[Josh500 1,615]

It doesn't matter who wrote the script , koeppels or Dupont , they just shouldn't have done this film.

That's easy saying afterwards...

[Ollie 1,059]

No some were saying it before.

Sometimes you can see a trainwreck coming but be helpless to stop it.

[Wojo 2,453]

Sometimes you can see a trainwreck coming but be helpless to stop it.

And other times...wait a minute, Superman, how many trainwrecks have you seen coming that you were able to stop in time?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

If Superman can't stop a trainwreck in time, he'd turn back the world and all would be well.

Anyway, I watched this movie again this week for no rational reason. It was refreshing to watch it without all the Indy euphoria that overcame most of us last year. I'd seen it three times before, and always as the fourth entry in a decaying saga -- this time, I was watching it as a work of its own. And actually, the first 35 minutes work remarkably well if you just pretend you don't know anything about Indy (even the nuke-the-fridge scene works better as a blatantly comic book moment if you take the movie outside of the saga it belongs to). Indy's identity crisis, the way Spalko sees him... it's all a lot more crystal-clear if you shut off the alarm in your head trying to assimilate that that old man is the Indiana Jones you know from your youth. Even the references to past characters and events work better in abstract form.

Then, of course, Mutt walks into the movie, shoehorning the Crystal Skull plot and the movie forgets about all these themes and focuses on getting sillier and sillier with each scene. The catacombs scene is semi-acceptable. But then they get to the jungle, and whoever was driving the movie -- Lucas, Spielberg, Ford, Williams -- leaves you with the timer in your DVD player as your only guide of where you are in the story.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I know we did all of this last summer but since it's been dredged up again....

It addressed many things that Koep's script had but failed to do anything with. The large snake was part of the explenation for the giant ants, he put in his script the reason why the animals were large.

I know I posted these photos last summer too. Amazon army ant or Amazon giant ant, i dont remember.

So there are not any strangely large animals in the film that need explanation.

Just complain that indy calls them 'siafu' and that the name of the African army ant...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

DELETE THAT PICTURE IMMEDIATELY!

Please, I beg of you.