It seems that Williams is taking after Jablonsky these days...

[ChuckM 1]

Not that Williams, the other Williams. Gregson-Williams.

In other words, I'm listening through Wolverine right now. My goodness! A good third of what I've heard so far has been direct temp-track cover based on cues from Steamboy and Transformers.

Before anyone says anything, yes, I know this is standard MV/RCP practice, but I had come to expect a bit more from HGW recently, especially on big-budget projects like this. <_<

[Ollie 859]

I've learned my lesson with former RC composers, with the exception of John Powell.

[ChuckM 1]

Well, I finished the rest of it. The original parts are actually pretty decent. It's just a shame that so much of it had to blatant copying.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

You tricked me into reading the thread. <_<

[ChuckM 1]

<_<

[Koray Savas 2,095]

It's a bad score. Disappointing from Harry indeed, but you can't really blame him. The film is apparently awful. Some parts sound like The Dark Knight. I didn't pick up on the Jablonsky parts, but it probably was a temp track hell, just like The Last Stand.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I was unimpressed by Wolverine, but somehow given the type of film I wasn't expecting much to begin with. The main theme just sounds desperate somehow and the general underscore just seems to lack any real substance or interest.

[ChuckM 1]

I guess I probably shouldn't have been expecting as much as I was. It's just that X-Men 2 and 3 both had such incredible scores that it rather got my hopes up.

And I wouldn't say that Wolverine is a particularly bad score, it's just too far of a step backwards into MV territory for HGW.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I was unimpressed by Wolverine, but somehow given the type of film I wasn't expecting much to begin with. The main theme just sounds desperate somehow and the general underscore just seems to lack any real substance or interest.

There's a main theme?

[ChuckM 1]

There's a main theme?

Yes, it's just not very predominant. You can hear it best in "I'll Find My Own Way" and at about 0:55 of "Logan Through Time."

[Henry B 49]

This soundtrack is the dullest of the dull. But... I kind of like the sonic palette. Gregson-Williams is much subtler with synthesizers than Zimmer is, and his orchestrations are competent.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Subtle with his synth?

Harry Gregson-Williams is does not hide the fact that he heavily uses synths. He doesn't use them to replace orchestra like Zimmer sometimes does.

[Henry B 49]

I didn't mean he tries to hide them. It just seems like he takes acoustics into careful consideration. Zimmer, sometimes, and other RCP composers seemingly just throw samples and loops around in Garageband or what have you with no regard to dynamics, stereo field or frequency balance.

[King Mark 2,924]

First off , I can't distinguish Steamboy or Transformers from any other MV/Zimmer/RCP score ,so I surely could not tell Wolverine is a rip off of those scores .It sounds all the freaking same to me

K.M.Who wouldn't even d/l these type of scores for free

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Greg is whack!

[Koray Savas 2,095]

First off , I can't distinguish Steamboy or Transformers from any other MV/Zimmer/RCP score ,so I surely could not tell Wolverine is a rip off of those scores .It sounds all the freaking same to me

Just because YOU can't tell the difference doesn't mean they sound the same. There are people who think Star Wars, Indy, and Superman all sound the same.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

They do!

[King Mark 2,924]

There are people who think Star Wars, Indy, and Superman all sound the same.

that's not the point. Please stop trying to convince those piece of shit RCP scores are any good

[ChuckM 1]

Steamboy and Transformers are definately more distinct than the average MV/RCP score. They are still MV, but they're quite a bit better than most. They're both certainly much better than Wolverine.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

There are people who think Star Wars, Indy, and Superman all sound the same.

that's not the point. Please stop trying to convince those piece of shit RCP scores are any good

Then what is the point? You're saying they all sound the same to you. You probably have never even listened to them. It's called a style, and to a person who is not familiar with it, it all sounds the same. To someone who is not familiar with JW's body of work, it all sounds the same.

[Charlie Brigden 5]

I wouldn't say style as much as manufacturing guidelines.

[ChuckM 1]

I wouldn't say style as much as manufacturing guidelines.

You see, that's the problem. So many people on this board have this idea in their head that all MV music is just a manufactured product without any real feeling behind it. There is a lot of that in MV, yes, but there are plenty of good exceptions.

[Charlie Brigden 5]

I wouldn't say style as much as manufacturing guidelines.

You see, that's the problem. So many people on this board have this idea in their head that all MV music is just a manufactured product without any real feeling behind it. There is a lot of that in MV, yes, but there are plenty of good exceptions.

I'm only describing what I hear. I'm not into groupthink. But based on what I've heard, real feeling is so rare from MV, so much so that it does seem like the majority of it is manufactured without any attempt at anything but blanket emotion. Which is why KUNG FU PANDA really surprised me, because it's full of some genuine feeling. Well that and it's the first John Powell I've even approached liking.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

There are people who think Star Wars, Indy, and Superman all sound the same.

that's not the point. Please stop trying to convince those piece of shit RCP scores are any good

You're totally unwilling to see anyone else's viewpoint about RCP aren't you.

I think Philip Glass's music all sounds really similar, but a fan would know his work better. If you didn't put all MV music under the same typecast you might actually be surprised.

[Diego 21]

First off , I can't distinguish Steamboy or Transformers from any other MV/Zimmer/RCP score ,so I surely could not tell Wolverine is a rip off of those scores .It sounds all the freaking same to me

Just because YOU can't tell the difference doesn't mean they sound the same. There are people who think Star Wars, Indy, and Superman all sound the same.

Only Star Wars, Indy and Superman are masterpieces.

[ChuckM 1]

And you're not going to find me claiming that anything by MV (except maybe some Powell) is a masterpiece, but some of their music is not nearly as bad as many of you claim it to be, and if you would actually listen to some of it unbiasedly, you might be able to notice that. You still might not personally like the music, but that's fine, that's just opinion.

[King Mark 2,924]

I never heard a single cue in a MV scored film that made me think I should listen to the c.d. I would never have become a fan of film music if this was the only thing I could listen to. I tried Hancock by Powell but quit after Track 5 .

And I think this thread title is just asking for it.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I know you probably won't take it seriously, but Hancock gets much better towards the middle of the album.

You said once I believe, that when Williams retires you'll lost interest in new film music altogether. I think that spells out how much right you have to criticise the wider ranging tastes around here, including those you don't agree with.

[King Mark 2,924]

I have 122 artists in itunes .Plenty of non MV/RCP stuff

Of MV have PotC 3 and Transformers...that was enough to form a permanent opinion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

Indeed!

[Ollie 859]

The name RC/MV does not automatically mean synth layered bs.

However, outside of John Powell, I find most of their other scores to be lacking just as much as the generic RC/MV sound most are accustomed to.

[Wojo 2,442]

I wouldn't listen to Transformers if you told me where to go download it for free.

But PotC 3 is quite nice, and I listen to it far more often than any other Zimmer or Zimmeresque composer.

[Datameister 1,394]

Of MV have PotC 3 and Transformers...that was enough to form a permanent opinion

Pity.

[Delorean90 32]

Thus far the best Zimmer/RCP material I've heard has been in animated films--The Lion King, The Prince of Egypt, and Kung Fu Panda are all quite good, as is what I've heard of Happy Feet (although one might say John Powell doesn't count quite as much as RCP now). The thing that really annoys me about Transformers is not just the synthestra wall of sound, or the Batman Begins call rip-off, but the fact that for a movie that's supposed to be just a "fun, dumb movie about giant robots blowing stuff up," it has very little music that actually sounds fun. The vast majority of it is moody and serious, and without any kind of flair to offset the darkness. The one or two cues that are supposed to be more lighthearted ("Sam at the Lake," for instance) are pretty much devoid of any charm, and come across as trying too hard to be hip.

IMO.

[indy4 152]

I don't mind the MV sound at all. What I mind is that it's the sound of 75% of modern film scores. It's fine in smaller doses, as is any other type of sound really.

[Delorean90 32]

Very true.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

I for some reason really like Transformers. It's generic, but not really in the normal sense. It has Jablonsky-isms and some really good themes. I guess it just carried the sound of Zimmer, but the writing in itself really isn't Zimmeresque.

[ChuckM 1]

I for some reason really like Transformers. It's generic, but not really in the normal sense. It has Jablonsky-isms and some really good themes. I guess it just carried the sound of Zimmer, but the writing in itself really isn't Zimmeresque.

Exactly. Jablonsky has this certain type of sound that just clicks with me. It is similar to the generic MV style, but it's not quite the same. Also, his themes are quite a bit better.

[Hlao-roo 388]

What I mind is that it's the sound of 75% of modern film scores.

The market has spoken.`

[Datameister 1,394]

I for some reason really like Transformers. It's generic, but not really in the normal sense. It has Jablonsky-isms and some really good themes. I guess it just carried the sound of Zimmer, but the writing in itself really isn't Zimmeresque.

Exactly. Jablonsky has this certain type of sound that just clicks with me. It is similar to the generic MV style, but it's not quite the same. Also, his themes are quite a bit better.

I can't claim to be particularly knowledgeable about all of Jablonsky's work, but Transformers sounds MV-ish to the point of laughable parody to my ears. (And I do enjoy MV scores at times, mind you.)

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Skorponok is reminiscent of The Kraken and I recall Batman Begins in there, but it's somehow different. Like I said it has the same sound, so it fits right in with everything else RCP, but it's original themes and other cues make it stand out.

Jablonsky has some good lesser known scores. Steamboy and D-War (aka Transformers with dragons) get positive comments in the film music community. Stay away from his horror scores. *shivers*

[Hlao-roo 388]

Stay away from his horror scores. *shivers*

They're that scary, huh?

[Koray Savas 2,095]

They're the definition of "generic shit."

[ChuckM 1]

Yes, he definately needs to stop doing horror scores and stick to the adventure stuff.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Well he only did those because of Michael Bay. Bay and Steve Jablonsky go hand-in-hand. Just like Jerry Bruckheimer, Trevor Rabin, and Nicolas Cage. Those three are like a little group that do everything together.

[ChuckM 1]

Ah, good ol' Trevor Rabin. Now there is your prime example of MV blandness.

[Ollie 859]

Which is a shame because I believe he is classically trained and he never was a member of MV.

I remember becoming interested in him back when Deep Blue Sea was released because I saw a special on the making of and it showed him working with the orchestra.

Imagine my disappointment when the film was released and I got the CD and all that nice orchestral work was buried under the typical MV sound.

[ChuckM 1]

Woah! Seriously? He's not actually MV?

[Ollie 859]

No, I believe he didn't go the factory route. He has an extensive music career outside of film music, most notably being a member of Yes.

[ChuckM 1]

Well, back to the original topic of the thread, I tracked down the work print of Wolverine (only after seeing the real movie first), and it seems I was correct. 90% of the temp-track is from Transformers.

Funny, huh? How I was able to tell what the music in the temp track was based only on the final score. That's because of the unique elements in the Transformers score.

On a different note entirely, the movie itself is pretty good. Quite enjoyable.