What Is The Last Film You Watched?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm fairly certain that Elfman had nothing to do with the film. I didn't say it was amazingly graphic. But it is perpetrated by an 11 year old girl.

13 year old

Elfman was listed in the end credits above the regular song section. I forgot the name of the track, but it was original music.

[A24 4,331]

All of the films above feature AGREEABLE characters

Agreeable characters?! We were talking about sympathetic characters, Quint! "Agreeable" is pretty vague.

[Quintus 5,399]

Near the top of this page I do say "agreeable", so it's out of my hands if you choose to construe that as "loveable". And yes it's vague - it means a whole host of definitions could come under it, which is precisely why I chose it to describe the angle I'm coming from. As vague as it is, there is no denying that "sympathetic" falls under it's umbrella.

[Morlock 11]

I would say, Alex, that most of them are in some ways sympathetic...perhaps the only exceptions are Dave Bowman and Patrick Bateman. I don't think American Psycho is all that great a movie, and 2001 is on a different sphere than most movies. Besides, even that has HAL, who is in some ways sympathetic due to his death scene. I can think of very few movies I like with absolutely no sympathy for the main characters...off the top of my head, only Full Metal Jacket and In the Company of Men come to mind (and the latter is made compelling at least partially because of the virtuosity of the total lack of sympathy).

[Quintus 5,399]

Full Metal Jacket has one of the most memorable anti-hero's in cinema history, plus as a movie it kicks my arse all over the place. Brilliant.

Also, on the subject of Dave Bowman, I found his deliberately emotionless character incredibly sympathetic. I worried for him. Watching him begin to sweat as HAL's dangerous meddling took hold was actually rather moving.

[A24 4,331]

I would say, Alex, that most of them are in some ways sympathetic...perhaps the only exceptions are Dave Bowman and Patrick Bateman.

Well, another person would say Dave Bowman is actually sympathetic while Plainview certainly is not. Generally, they are not meant to be sympathetic and they are not designed to draw in the viewer that way. Very often, it's their non-sympathetic nature that forms a stumbling block to many viewers.

So yeah, you've just proved my point, cheers.

What point is that? That A Serious Man is a bad film because it has no sympathetic characters? Strange, because I keep hearing good things about it, like "it's their best film yet" and so on. It seems that your point applies to you and you alone.

[Quintus 5,399]

No that isn't my point at all and you know it isn't. But not to worry, I'm used to you putting words into my mouth for the sole purpose of adding an appearance of weight to your arguments, so continue as you were.

And besides (and not related at all to my point), using the "everyone else loves it" argument is INSTANT LOSE.

Tut tut Alex, you're letting the side down.

[Morlock 11]

I'm fairly certain that Elfman had nothing to do with the film. I didn't say it was amazingly graphic. But it is perpetrated by an 11 year old girl.

13 year old

Elfman was listed in the end credits above the regular song section. I forgot the name of the track, but it was original music.

I believe she was 11 when they filmed the movie. And I'll take your word for it, but I haven't heard about anything that connects Elfman to the film (aside from the homage), and it strikes me as completely unlikely that Elfman would be contributing a cue or two to a film, particularly when he has no working relationaship with the director.

I would say, Alex, that most of them are in some ways sympathetic...perhaps the only exceptions are Dave Bowman and Patrick Bateman.

Well, another person would say Dave Bowman is actually sympathetic while Plainview certainly is not. Generally, they are not meant to be sympathetic and they are not designed to draw in the viewer that way. Very often, it's their non-sympathetic nature that forms a stumbling block to many viewers.

Generally, they are not meant to be sympathetic, no. But one scene can make a character sympathetic. And I don't quite get why Jamie Graham would strike you as unsympathetic.

[A24 4,331]

Generally, they are not meant to be sympathetic, no.

Thank you.

But one scene can make a character sympathetic. And I don't quite get why Jamie Graham would strike you as unsympathetic.

I think Jim doesn't strike me as a typical sympathetic kid. He's an extremely spoiled brat in the film's first hour. He's a real snob and I can see why a lot of people have difficulty to relate to him or to the Yanks who were a nothing but bunch of selfish non-heroes. Oh yes, this is Spielberg's most unspielbergian movie.

Well, we can have a debate about every one of my examples but that would be beside the point. Yes, delving under the surface or a deeper analysis of the characters might shed a different light on them but that doesn't mean they are known as sympathetic characters.

[Quintus 5,399]

Nobody said they were.

Though god forbid anyone who hints at what's beneath the surface; rather than seeing things at obvious face value. Wouldn't want to confuse the dense contingent of the thread.

[A24 4,331]

And besides (and not related at all to my point), using the "everyone else loves it" argument is INSTANT LOSE.

I haven't seen the movie but I was merely establishing that I've never heard anyone claim that the film is bad because there were no sympathetic characters. I think I've shown that there's no link between sympathetic characters and good movies. The only thing you did was typing meaningless posts, changing "sympathetic" to a vague "agreeable characters".

Though god forbid anyone who hints at what's beneath the surface; rather than seeing things at obvious face value.

Ah, perhaps that's why you didn't like A Serious Man while others did?

[Quintus 5,399]

I disagree, I think there's a strong link between sympathetic characters and good movies and I don't think you have proven otherwise at all. But I'm happy to agree to disagree on it.

[A24 4,331]

I disagree, I think there's a strong link between sympathetic characters and good movies and I don't think you have proven otherwise at all. But I'm happy to agree to disagree on it.

Tut tut Quint, I gave you examples, so yes, I've proved it. I can give you examples of bad movies with sympathetic characters too, if you wish.

[Quintus 5,399]

All you did was try to show that it isn't always the case, in very rare cases. I say "try" because as was shown, there was some dispute over the validity of your examples. I have argued that in the vast majority of cases it plays a huge part in one's percieved enjoyment of a film. Therefore, you have attempted to show examples to back up your argument, and that was noted, but you haven't "proven" anything.

Though god forbid anyone who hints at what's beneath the surface; rather than seeing things at obvious face value.

Ah, perhaps that's why you didn't like A Serious Man while others did?

No, I didn't like A Serious Man because I thought it was pointless, boring, dull and I didn't like any of the characters. I did explain that above and on the previous page, but I don't mind repeating myself one last time, just for you. And that's my final word on this matter, because I can see circles on the horizon. Cheers.

[A24 4,331]

All you did was try to show that it isn't always the case, in very rare cases. I have argued that in the vast majority of cases it plays a huge part in one's percieved enjoyment of a film. Therefore, you have attempted to show examples to back up your argument, but you haven't "proven" anything.

That makes no sense. The examples I gave prove that non-sympathetic characters don't equal bad movies (far from it) and they are only rare because Hollywood is afraid of making movies without sympathetic characters. The big-audience movies heavily rely on sympathetic characters because that's the easiest way to win over the audience. That's why movie stars get big salaries.

BTW, were you talking about Into The Wild earlier? You said something about hating a movie because of its main character but I didn't recognize the title of the movie.

[Quintus 5,399]

The examples I gave prove that non-sympathetic characters don't equal bad movies and they are only rare because Hollywood is afraid of making movies without sympathetic characters. The big audience movies heavily rely on sympathetic characters because that's the easiest way to win over the audience.

At absolutely no point have I suggested otherwise, Alex. Go back and re-read my posts very carefully if need be. Of course it is perfectly possible and indeed very true that some movies are good inspite of their characters, as I've yes, already pointed out earlier. You're arguing with me over something I've never once disputed and in fact agree with you upon. Sometimes, in your endless crusade to "win" an argument, I think you get a head of yourself a little, throwing the facts out of the window and creating disputes which weren't there in the first place.

Take a step back, calm down, breath a little and you will see it. It's all there, the truth of the debate, in black and white.

[A24 4,331]

I'm calm. I'm glad that we can all agree in the end. Have you read my question?

[Quintus 5,399]

Into the Wild is a superb film, with wonderful characters. Where the Wild Things Are is a movie about a little boy who escapes the dolldrums of his life by going on an adventure into his imagination. It features James Gandolfini as the voice of one of the 'wild things'. It's an okay little movie, but the kid is a brat.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386117/

[A24 4,331]

Never heard of it (and it's a Spike Jonze film!). Talking about the voice of Gandolfini. Today I watched one of the extras features from The Sopranos and I hardly recognized his normal voice. The tone and accent of Tony Soprano are totally, and I mean TOTALLY different from his own natural voice. It was really strange. And since we've been debating sympathetic characters, Tony Soprano is a very interesting one. On the one hand, he's a very likable bloke. On the other hand, he's a terrifying monster. There's lots of duality there. It's probably the core reason why the series is so good.

Alex

[Morlock 11]

I thought it was kinda wonderful. Like Jim from EoS, he's a brat, yes. But it was great to see a brat that felt so true to life...there are moments surrounding his character that reminded me of childhood in as a strong a way as a movie ever has (one that I didn't see as a child, that is).

[Quintus 5,399]

Yes, the kid who plays him gives a very real performance. It's not a bad movie by any means, but I was just a little disappointed by it - I'm a big fan of Jonze's Being John Malkovich.

Alex, off the top of my head, I think Tony Soprano might be THE ultimate anti-hero. He's a monster, but the coolest damn monster in the world. As for Gandolfini's voice - I believe the second episode of season 6 features James' real voice throughout (the hospital dream episode). Have you finished the show yet?

[A24 4,331]

Have you finished the show yet?

Oh yes, the show ended very appropriately. The family was ... eating. Christopher's death, a few episodes before, was a bit of an anti-climax though.

[Quintus 5,399]

I thought Chris' death was superbly sinister. His uncle was an evil, evil man.

So which camp are you in?

Tony lived or Tony got killed?

I'm in the latter. To paraphrase David Chase: "the answer is there, in the scene, you just have to spot the clues."

Brilliant ending to a brilliant landmark show.

[steb74 53]

Damn! I wish I hadn't of read the last two posts

[Quintus 5,399]

Sorry man, I thought since Alex had gone ahead and said it it would make no difference now if I was to repeat it. Sorry

Just watching a bit of one of the Zorro movies on tv now and it's struck me how 'real' it all looks, old fashioned even. The stunts are all staged for real and the action sequences have that authentic look about them. Apart from one silly moment with a horse on a train, I've noticed no cgi at all (how else could they show a horse running atop a train?). Movie was made in 2005, but it feels older and I mean that as a compliment. So yeah, my point being: why the fuck didn't Indy 4 get made in the same way? The same sensibilities, the same authentic style? Grrrrr.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Memoirs of a Geisha on BD. I like that film.

[steb74 53]

Sorry man, I thought since Alex had gone ahead and said it it would make no difference now if I was to repeat it. Sorry

Ha, no problem at all man, seriously

Sometimes the whole spoiler thing can get ridiculous, how long should people wait?? If it's relatively recent fair enough, other than that I think it's just a case tough shit matey!

I'm sure there are places where it's still considered a spoiler to mention Vader is Luke's dad ....Oooops!!

Cheers though man.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm fairly certain that Elfman had nothing to do with the film. I didn't say it was amazingly graphic. But it is perpetrated by an 11 year old girl.

13 year old

Elfman was listed in the end credits above the regular song section. I forgot the name of the track, but it was original music.

I believe she was 11 when they filmed the movie. And I'll take your word for it, but I haven't heard about anything that connects Elfman to the film (aside from the homage), and it strikes me as completely unlikely that Elfman would be contributing a cue or two to a film, particularly when he has no working relationaship with the director.

The cue Elfman wrote is called "Walk To Rasul's." So yeah, he weirdly composed 1 cue for the film. I didn't know John Murphy composed original music for the film, since a lot of it was just reused from his other films. He even says so in this recent episode of On The Score, with both Murphy and Henry Jackman. Seems Jackman was the main composer here, as it seems he wrote the most music. They talk about Williams' Superman, Elfman's Batman, and the Morricone influences.

[Morlock 11]

I thought Chris' death was superbly sinister. His uncle was an evil, evil man.

So which camp are you in?

Tony lived or Tony got killed?

I'm in the latter. To paraphrase David Chase: "the answer is there, in the scene, you just have to spot the clues."

I've NEVER heard of the question being whether

Tony lived or got killed

.

[A24 4,331]

So which camp are you in?

Tony lived or Tony got killed?

Both are possible ...

(although going to the restaurant was a last minute decision, I believe) ... but I'm inclined to put myself into the first camp. It looks and feels like they are going to do Tony in. They built up the scene that way, so everyone expects it. But it could very well mean that Tony's position, with all the recent power shifts, is weakened and that he, more than ever before, has to live in fear and in a state of paranoia.

Alex

[Morlock 11]

I always saw it as

a non-ending. What happens afterwards? Nothing. Tony neither lives nor dies nor goes to jail nor gets divorced. It is an acknowledgment of the possibilities of drama, how no ending could possibly be right or be wrong. The entire sixth season was spent bludgeoning us with the show's central theme: People don't change. No dramatic beat that follows is going to add anything.

[MattyO 62]

Just watching a bit of one of the Zorro movies on tv now and it's struck me how 'real' it all looks, old fashioned even. The stunts are all staged for real and the action sequences have that authentic look about them. Apart from one silly moment with a horse on a train, I've noticed no cgi at all (how else could they show a horse running atop a train?). Movie was made in 2005, but it feels older and I mean that as a compliment. So yeah, my point being: why the fuck didn't Indy 4 get made in the same way? The same sensibilities, the same authentic style? Grrrrr.

I agree. I was excited for Indy 4 when everyone involved in the production kept saying they were doing practical stunts as much as possible, with real sets and all of that and then the film actually includes CGI that has no place being there - the gophers, the monkeys? Why didn't Spielberg just tell George to fuck off! It's like everyone was just thinking of a single incident where they didn't use green screen and decide to publicise that as representing a no-CGI approach (the University Bike Chase comes to mind). Anyway, that is an argument for another thread. The Zorro movies are good, old-fashioned fun like the original Indy movies were. Dare I say it, but I might just prefer both of Horner's Zorro scores to Williams' work for KotCS.

[Morlock 11]

Alice in Wonderland. I feel like calling it terrible, except its not. It struck me as the most not-good movie since Harry Potter 4. It felt like Tim Burton allowed his reputation (not entirely earned, IMO) to get to his head. 'Yeah, Alice- that's, like, totally me!', without having a clue as to why.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

I still don't get why he had to make a sequel when the original "stories" were so much more interesting than the new one - not that the originals had a lot of plot, but they had all those interesting bits about Alice reacting to strange people and situations. Burton threw that out and replaced it with a plot that was just nearly completely uninteresting.

[QMM 4]

How to Train Your Dragon

Predictable and I don't understand why Baruchel put on a different voice as he's awkward enough as is, but the movie's got heart. Some of the shots in the flying sequences actually made me go "Whoah" (saw this in 3D) and I think I'd say they were better than Avatar's. It was great seeing how the score was matched up in the film, and when it syncs up perfectly it's amazing. That said, I thought they mixed it a bit too low.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

How To Train Your Dragon

Man this was a great film. Give me this over Pixar any day. Powell's score kicked ass.

[crocodile 8,000]

It was fine, but at the same time it is like any other animated film for me. There is absolutely nothing distinctive about it.

Karol - who just bought The Wire: The Complete Series and Alien Quadrilogy (2003 release) box sets and is very happy with them

[indy4 155]

I saw Reservoir Dogs (great film!) and Sherlock Holmes (pretty good). When I first saw trailers for the latter, I was afraid it would be some sort of modern action film with Holmes as a hunky superhero, but they were a complete misrepresentation of the actual film. It's not really old fashioned, but it's certainly not generic or modern.

[Trent B 337]

Avatar on regular DVD. My dad bought it for my mom and him but I borrowed it and watched it. I am waiting however for the extended edition on Blu-Ray this November before I myself buy it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I really can't see myself ever wanting to sit through that ever again, regardless of how great the picture quality was. Something about Jake calling the humans "aliens" at the end just rubbed me the wrong way.

[indy4 155]

Something I forgot to mention about Sherlock Holmes: anybody else think that "Auschwitz-Birkenau" was the temp track for the scene with the explosions? The two sound incredibly similar to me. Also forgot to mention I liked the music. Not great, but pretty good.

[Demondm810 399]

Something I forgot to mention about Sherlock Holmes: anybody else think that "Auschwitz-Birkenau" was the temp track for the scene with the explosions? The two sound incredibly similar to me. Also forgot to mention I liked the music. Not great, but pretty good.

It sure seems like it. It's the only thing I can think of when that plays in Sherlock. Almost seems out of place because it's so similar.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Guy Ritchie didn't use temp tracks. They originally had The Dark Knight in there (film as a whole), but he had them take it out. It was Zimmer's idea to use solo violin for the scene. He talked about pitching that idea to the studio execs in one of the many interviews he's done on the score.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Chunks of the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie on TV. God do the sequels suck.

[indy4 155]

They are pretty bad, but they're tons of fun to watch.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I was absolutely bored. They're so overdone. The original was so fresh and entertaining. It was fun. The characters were great. It was a little long but you still woke up for the end and loved it. It was naturally a hit. In fact, I need the Blu-ray.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Dead Man's Chest is as good as The Curse Of The Black Pearl IMO. At World's End has good parts. It'll be interesting to see where On Stranger Tides takes the franchise.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Dead Man's Chest is as bad as bad can be. It's not as good as Curse of the Black Pearl, not in this century or any other.

[Datameister 2,041]

I was absolutely bored. They're so overdone. The original was so fresh and entertaining. It was fun. The characters were great. It was a little long but you still woke up for the end and loved it. It was naturally a hit. In fact, I need the Blu-ray.

This. The original was so thoroughly fun, especially with the tasteful ways they incorporated elements of the beloved Disneyland attraction without overdoing it. Then DMC came along and gave us fundamentally different characters, totally un-funny humor, an increasingly incomprehensible story told in part by actors mimicking unintelligible accents, an unsatisfying ending...and, in my opinion, far worse music. The first one may have sounded like a Media Ventures "Greatest Hits" album...but note the word "great." If that sound is fun for you, the score will be fun. DMC's score is somewhat more original some of the time, but much of the new music is dull or annoying, with the lifeless adaptations of music from the first film adding even more to the film's sense of sequelitis.

But at least the film lowered my expectations to the point where I correctly assumed AWE wouldn't live up to its acronym.

[indy4 155]

I think the first is great. The second two are probably bad films, but I still love to watch them. Depp is fantastic as Sparrow,the music is great, and the action sequences are fun and brilliantly choreographed. I especially love the spinning wheel sequence in DMC--to me, that rivals some of the best action sequences in Indy films or Jurassic Park.