For Those Who've Seen 'Wicked'...

[indy4 152]

....firstly that I loved it. The sets, the costumes, the music, the singing, the acting, the lighting, was all brilliant. But I was really quite shocked at some of the major plot holes that plague the play. Most of them work fine within the play itself, but when one tries to connect the dots with The Wizard of Oz (the film at least), it really falls apart.

Spoilers below:

The biggest of these holes is the Scarecrow's creation. If he was really the lover of the Wicked Witch, then wouldn't he remember this during the duration of the film? One possible explanation is that in loosing his brain he forgot about the Witch, but this is shot down by the end of the play when he and the Witch are seen leaving Oz together.

Secondly, the event that prompts Dorothy to throw the pail of water on the Witch is the Witch lighting the Scarecrow on fire. I seriously doubt she would do this while knowing that the Scarecrow was her lover. It's possible that she did it fully expecting Dorothy to throw the water on her, but it doesn't seem like she would risk killing her lover in order to convincingly fake her death.

Also, it doesn't really make sense how the flying monkeys would be glad as soon as the Witch melts in the film. All she did was give them wings and free them from the Wizard, there was really no reason to dislike her.

And I really didn't buy Glenda being forgiven by the Witch just because she sang a song and said she was sorry. She endorsed groups of people that attempted to kill the Witch, it really didn't seem realistic that Alphaba would just accept her again with open arms. This isn't really a plot hole, because it makes sense, but it's a very shaky link.

And finally, I thought the reason for the creation of the Cowardly Lion was incredibly...lame. Honestly, not letting a lion cub fight its own battles both make it a coward and gave it the desire to exact vengeance? C'mon. Again, this isn't exactly a plot hole, but definitely a big problem with the play.

It seems like a lot of these big inconsistencies could have been fixed if the Witch stayed evil until the end of the film instead of turning good again in the last scene. It's almost like the author (I haven't read the book, so perhaps I mean the screenwriter) sacrificed a strong plot for a happy ending. It just surprises me that such a popular and successful film can have so many technical errors, even though so many other aspects of it are awesome. I'm not incredibly familiar with Broadway plays, so perhaps these inconsistencies are normal when translating a plot arc from film to play, but it was just a bit surprising.

[Bryant Burnette 451]

Can't speak with 100% accuracy to the intent of the people who created the musical, but the novel Wicked is a riff on the novel The Wizard of Oz ... not the movie. I suspect many a person has been slightly confused by the "plot holes" relative to the movie, and simply decided to not worry about it because of all the pretty lights and cool songs. The musical itself doesn't entirely work as an alternate version of either the (original) book or of the movie; it's really kind of its own thing.

A few other points:

(1) I loved the musical, too. Saw the traveling production not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed every second of it.

(2) The name is Elphaba, not Alphaba. Elphaba ... sort of a play on L.F.B., which stands for L. Frank Baum.

(3) The musical is very, very different from Gregory Maguire's novel. Both are excellent, and I STRONGLY encourage you to read the novel. I look forward to someday seeing an excellent movie version which will be very, very different from both of them.

(4) As for Elphaba being too forgiving of Glenda ... I didn't have a problem with that. Glenda is obviously acting with some serious regret when she's condemning the Witch, and she does play an instrumental role in saving the day for both Elphie and Fiyero.

(5) Whaddaya mean, the Witch should have "stayed evil until the end"? The whole point of Wicked is that Elphaba was never evil at all; she was only seen that way.

(6) The woman who played Glenda in the production I saw was terrific, but man, how I would have loved to see Kristin Chenoweth in that role. I've heard her on the OCR, of course, but that's not quite the same. Hopefully someday a DVD of the original run will be released.

[indy4 152]

Can't speak with 100% accuracy to the intent of the people who created the musical, but the novel Wicked is a riff on the novel The Wizard of Oz ... not the movie. I suspect many a person has been slightly confused by the "plot holes" relative to the movie, and simply decided to not worry about it because of all the pretty lights and cool songs. The musical itself doesn't entirely work as an alternate version of either the (original) book or of the movie; it's really kind of its own thing.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

(5) Whaddaya mean, the Witch should have "stayed evil until the end"? The whole point of Wicked is that Elphaba was never evil at all; she was only seen that way.

And by changing that detail the main theme of the play would be changed, but not for the worse. It could just be about the great impact a reputation can have on someone, how lies can destroy a person, etc. In fact, I think it'd be even more effective, because the efforts of the Oz inhabitants to rid themselves of the evil not only was ineffective, but actually created the problem it was trying to solve. And it would have cleared up many of the inconsistencies...the Monkeys and the Scarecrow would have a reason to hate the Witch, and the Witch would have a reason to try to burn the Scarecrow. Also, if the Witch was evil then she would have been truly killed in the end, which would have meant she and the Scarecrow wouldn't have skipped off together in the end, which would have made the idea of the Scarecrow not remembering his previous lover due to his lack of a brain plausible, which would have sorta helped to explain why he doesn't seem to have the slightest memory of the Witch in the film.

(4) As for Elphaba being too forgiving of Glenda ... I didn't have a problem with that. Glenda is obviously acting with some serious regret when she's condemning the Witch, and she does play an instrumental role in saving the day for both Elphie and Fiyero.

Sure she had regret, but she still chose to deal with it and enjoy her fame and fortune rather than helping her friend who was really responsible for all of Glenda's success. And besides, I don't think the Witch ever knew that Glenda was feeling bad about her actions, I think Fiyero was the only one that Glenda confided in. As for the instrumental role, that was only after the Witch accepted Glenda's apology, and that's the action that I'm questioning.

[Henry B 49]

And by changing that detail the main theme of the play would be changed, but not for the worse.

You might say that the main theme would be changed... for the better.

...

Okay I'm out.

[indy4 152]

Is this a Monty Python reference?

[Henry B 49]

Argh!

[Bryant Burnette 451]

(5) Whaddaya mean, the Witch should have "stayed evil until the end"? The whole point of Wicked is that Elphaba was never evil at all; she was only seen that way.

And by changing that detail the main theme of the play would be changed, but not for the worse. It could just be about the great impact a reputation can have on someone, how lies can destroy a person, etc. In fact, I think it'd be even more effective, because the efforts of the Oz inhabitants to rid themselves of the evil not only was ineffective, but actually created the problem it was trying to solve. And it would have cleared up many of the inconsistencies...the Monkeys and the Scarecrow would have a reason to hate the Witch, and the Witch would have a reason to try to burn the Scarecrow. Also, if the Witch was evil then she would have been truly killed in the end, which would have meant she and the Scarecrow wouldn't have skipped off together in the end, which would have made the idea of the Scarecrow not remembering his previous lover due to his lack of a brain plausible, which would have sorta helped to explain why he doesn't seem to have the slightest memory of the Witch in the film.

Uh ... again, this is not based on the movie. Didn't I explain that already? Didn't you acknowledge it already?!?

Why are you trying so hard to make the two match up? The novel Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West has some definite connections to the novel The Wizard of Oz, but the musical Wicked has very little to do with either L. Frank Baum's original novel or with the movie. With that in mind, your comments about maintaining the Witch's status as "evil" seem a little odd to me. Sure, the Witch in the movie is evil; undisputably, irredeemably evil, one of THE all-time great screen villains.

Elphaba -- in both the novel and the musical -- is NOT evil. Period. As I said before, the entire point of the story is that she isn't evil. Without that element, the story -- which is a challenge to us to re-examine the world around us and our preconceptions about it -- would not exist. So I simply do not see where you're coming from in the comments above.

And Henry Buck ... sir, I feel your pain.

[indy4 152]

Yeah, I guess I'm still just a bit surprised that the film is described as a prequel to WoO and it can have all these inconsistencies. But yeah, it makes sense.

[Henry B 49]

Yeah, I guess I'm still just a bit surprised that the film is described as a prequel to WoO and it can have all these inconsistencies. But yeah, it makes sense.

What a crock, these prequels. Why, Uncle Owen didn't remember owning Threepio! The design of the Enterprise was completely different from previous ones!

[Bryant Burnette 451]

Yeah, I guess I'm still just a bit surprised that the film is described as a prequel to WoO and it can have all these inconsistencies. But yeah, it makes sense.

I'm sure many, many people have interpreted it the same way and simply not remembered The Wizard of Oz well enough to "question" any of it.

[Taikomochi 783]

Yes, I quite enjoyed it.

Because my mom's (now ex) fiance knew the actress who played Madame Morrible, we got to go back stage.