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Hollywood Strings Virtual Instrument


A24

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Great, now MIDI strings will no longer sound like garbage; rather, they will now sound like garbage thrown in an aquarium.

"We have one of the top sound engineers in the business, a famous and beautiful sounding recording studio, the most incredible selection of microphones available, the best analog and digital recording equipment, and top Hollywood string players - how could we go wrong?"

Yes, I repeat, how could they go wrong?!

Alex

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Looks pretty darn comprehensive, and probably out of my price range. I'm waiting for Garritan Orchestral Strings 2.

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I wonder if it will be better than Vienna Instruments

An often heard complaint is that VSL doesn't sound Hollywood enough but perhaps they fixed that by now with new articulations.

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Maybe it's Williams who wants more bass and not Murphy. OTOH, Shawn Murphy never turns up the bass in Williams' concerto work. I guess we'll have to wait for the demos to know how this library will sound.

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I hope this time they put all techiques in all sections. Annoying when you want to do a tutti technique. Then again, it would be nice if composers were given bigger budgets to actually record an orchestra, and we could trash all this synth garbage. With Sibelius 6, it is easier to make legible sheet music, so maybe that will cut the costs for the developers and production companies.

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It's samples, not synth, Jessie, but I know what you mean. However, it should be said that some of the VSL demos sound freaking good. When working with samples, not only do you need to compose, you also have to be some kind of programming wizard.

Alex

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It's samples, not synth, Jessie, but I know what you mean. However, it should be said that some of the VSL demos sound freaking good. When working with samples, not only do you need to compose, you also have to be some kind of programming wizard.

Alex

Yeah, I just wrote like a 300 line script to help with phrasing. It was getting mad tweaking every little line. I still have to tweak, but there's some phrasing to work with right away. In a perfect world, it would be like it was when there was the MGM orchestra, and all the big game publishers had musicians on payroll that they would let the developers use for consistent quality.

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It's samples, not synth, Jessie, but I know what you mean. However, it should be said that some of the VSL demos sound freaking good. When working with samples, not only do you need to compose, you also have to be some kind of programming wizard.

Alex

Yeah, I just wrote like a 300 line script to help with phrasing. It was getting mad tweaking every little line. I still have to tweak, but there's some phrasing to work with right away. In a perfect world, it would be like it was when there was the MGM orchestra, and all the big game publishers had musicians on payroll that they would let the developers use for consistent quality.

That would be grand. It seems to me that recorded music in video games is on the rise, though - if not orchestras then at least solo instruments and singers. For some reason, though, nobody seems to get real choirs. Prohibitively expensive, I guess. It's too bad. I think synth/sample choirs are generally awful, even if they're just "oohing" for ambience.

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Wow! This is what Shawn Murphy is going to be competing with! It's LA Scoring Strings and it's just been released. Price is $999.

When you listen to the demos, pay special attention to the naked demos with the commentary. Go to LASS Demos and click 'Spiccato Cellos and the A.R.T script explained' and 'LASS's Layered Real Legato exposed'.

Those spiccato cellos sound incredible! The legato strings are pretty fantastic too!

Alex

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I wonder if it will be better than Vienna Instruments

An often heard complaint is that VSL doesn't sound Hollywood enough but perhaps they fixed that by now with new articulations.

That complaint is usually hear from people who just want more of a finished sounds than the raw flexibility that VSL gives you. Basically, VSL gives the closest I have ever heard to the real raw sound of the instrument, and then the composer is able to make it fit for the genre he would like by reverb and other FX.

That has been the problem with competing orchestral samples in the past. When they try to make them sound as good as possible out of the box, you lose a lot of flexibility.

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I have heard LASS but I found the example with the cello spiccato too mechanical. It needed to be better rendered because it really turned me off- it actually sounded quantized.

There is also another string library that is being released called Cinema Strings by a guy in Australia. Much cheaper than LASS.

I will wait for EW before I decide which one I will buy. Because I have bought into a lot of EW products, I'm sure I will find these Hollywood Strings quite good. I also use VSL but I primarily use them for the legato winds and brass. I do not care for their strings- the VSL SE string always need to be tweaked in their ADSR (the release is too short). I prefer using Symphobia to double Prime Sound Session Strings which at $99 were the biggest steal- they sound awesome!

Jesse, I noticed you mentioned Sibelius 6. Did you give up on Overture? I downloaded Overture 4 (*purchased it!) and then discovered it will NOT run VST's on the Mac. WHAT A RIP! And they have been promising this since 2005.

For most orchestral scoring, I use NOTION because I do not need to have ultra realistic samples. Also, I'm part of the Beta Testing team for NOTION 3 which promises big improvements. I will let you know how it is (er, I think I will re-read my non-disclosure form first however).

With all the stuff that EW Hollywood Strings promises, I think it's well worth the wait. The one benefit of Cinema Strings is that they will be available as DIRECT DOWNLOAD. Not sure how big the library will be but it's affordable ($599 for basic, $699 for Pro version)

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I have heard LASS but I found the example with the cello spiccato too mechanical. It needed to be better rendered because it really turned me off- it actually sounded quantized.

Yes, but that's a script for those who want to quickly do rapid spiccato passages so it's not a real problem. If you listen through the 'auto script', I'm sure you will admit they sound pretty fantastic. I would pay good money for the spiccato strings alone.

Alex

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I have heard LASS but I found the example with the cello spiccato too mechanical. It needed to be better rendered because it really turned me off- it actually sounded quantized.

Yes, but that's a script for those who want to quickly do rapid spiccato passages so it's not a real problem. If you listen through the 'auto script', I'm sure you will admit they sound pretty fantastic. I would pay good money for the spiccato strings alone.

Alex

I find the RR settings on the cellos for EWQLSO to be quite good. Better than VSL although not quite as sexy as Symphobia RR strings.

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Perhaps this is the wrong Thread, but I have been wanting to "get this off my chest" for a while now...while on one hand I find it interesting to see how close to a real instruments these digitized sounds can get, on the other hand I find it rather unnerving....

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

This sounds great. But I'm wondering though... is there really a point in having these massive libraries with every articulation possible? I'm talking from a film composer perspective I suppose. Do people who aren't as well trained at listening to music really notice if you use 35 different articulations on a mock-up or just 15?

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I'm impressed when Thomas plays the keyboard. At one point it's almost like listening to a Williams '80s theme (the part where the left hand plays the chords while the right hand plays the melody).

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I'm impressed when Thomas plays the keyboard. At when point it's almost like listening to an Williams '80s theme (the part where the left hand plays the chords while the right hand plays the melody).

That part impressed me the most. Just gorgeous.

Which Williams 80's themes are sounding like this? (aside from E.T.)

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at around 6 minutes in when Thomas Bergersen does a realtime performance on HS, my jaw dropped. The most convincing string passage I have ever heard played by samples. Pre ordered the Gold edition. Now, a month to wait......tick tock tick tock.....

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That's the first thing Thomas plays in that demo, right? My jaw dropped too, like hearing real strings. Be careful David, the Gold Edition doesn't have the Sordino Section, which Thomas also uses in that part. Do you have experience with the 'Play' engine?

Alex

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That's the first thing Thomas plays in that demo, right? My jaw dropped too, like hearing real strings. Be careful David, the Gold Edition doesn't have the Sordino Section, which Thomas also uses in that part. Do you have experience with the 'Play' engine?

Alex

I have EWQLSO PLatinum PLAY, Fab Four, Goliath, and EWQL Symphonic Choirs all PLAY versions. I dunno but I have little to no problems with it unlike many other people. I have a modest set up too- MAc Pro 2.66ghz with 8gigs ram and 2 TB worth of HD all running ay 7200rpms.

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Perhaps Play is written for the Mac. A Mac Pro with 8 GB and 2 TB worth of storage room isn't exactly what I would call "modest". Does it make a lot of fan noise?

BTW, I love the drum sound on those Fab Four demos! The Silk demos are also very impressive.

Alex

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Mind numbingly stupid comment by Stefan, what a surprise. :P

Alex, PM me so we can have a constructive civil conversation about this without the usual stupid idiots chiming in when they have no clue as to what they're talking about.

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:)

I find it interesting that the people complaining about Zimmer and MV and generic, sampled scoring are also the ones drooling over these fake orchestra mcgubbins!

OMG IT SOUNDS JUST LIKE A REAL ORCHESTRA! I CAN BE JOHN WILLIAMS!

:P

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No Stefan. If you were a composer you would be happy at the fact that you could

a. get your music played close to what you envision in your head

b. produce realistic mock ups so conductors will actually agree to perform your music with A REAL ORCHESTRA

c. get work on projects that don't have the budgets for real musicians

d. have your music performed closer to what you want as opposed to semi pro musicians or amateur groups that rape your music beyond recognition.

Sorry for calling you an idiot. I honestly don't think you know where guys like Alex or Jesse or myself are coming from on this matter.

As for Zimmer, the guy DOES have real orchestras playing his music and it still sounds fake! that's not a problem with the technology, it's a problem with his skill level at writing for real musicians.

If you were to listen to Thomas J Bergersen's demo of this library or his music, you would hear a very talented composer regardless of the canvas he's working on. I don't purport to write like John Williams (more like Jerry Goldsmith by my own admission and a few comments from other composers about my stuff) and I would never believe a sample library would automatically make up for any shortcomings I may have. But if this or any other library allows me to translate what I hear in my head better and more accurately into the real world for people to hear, then I get excited about that prospect.

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a. get your music played close to what you envision in your head

Get a local orchestra. Or a highly skilled low-pay one overseas.

b. produce realistic mock ups so conductors will actually agree to perform your music with A REAL ORCHESTRA

Have the balls to let someone interpret your music, possibly better than you thought possible, and have the bigger balls to say I want it this way.

c. get work on projects that don't have the budgets for real musicians

Use a smaller ensemble.

d. have your music performed closer to what you want as opposed to semi pro musicians or amateur groups that rape your music beyond recognition.

At least their rendition has character

It's called leveraging value. Both with the director of your work and musicians. For every professional orchestra there is, there's double their number in the immediate vicinity with virtually equivalent skills who did not make it into the orchestra. Starving artists are the easiest groups to take advantage of, from a business perspective, because everyone wants to make a name, and everyone wants a little money, and everyone wants an opportunity to be part of a project to pad their portfolio, and everyone wants to network. You can assemble a small ensemble of 15 people and pay an affordable fee and using some basic equipment and a room with fairly decent acoustics get yourself a real score. And if you like you can pad that with fakes.

Basically you can pay $200 or $150,000 and have your self an ensemble of muscians. As a composer you have to make a value-focused case to the director/producer to make the investment.

Why should you? Because by the end of this decade as space and memory limitations rapidly decline, the real orchestra will be obsolete, and its up to people (like you who respect the orchestra) who make the case for it to keep it alive.

I was at UC-Berkley a few months ago (during my absence from these boards) and I had an opportunity to see some of the research projects they were doing in music synthesis. All I know is, the composer himself will see a greatly diminished role in the future. There's technology that works like super-powerful actions in Photoshop. You can just about button-push musical scores. All you need is a basic melody. You define parameters, and boom it generates a dramatic underscore...lush sweeping music, heart-stopping action. It also locks up into infinite loops and crashes here and there, but...yeah. :P

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Why should I hire a composer or an orchestra, if I the director can...

Hum out a melody, that a piece of software transcribes into notes.

Then I plug the contents of that software into a piece of software that builds pieces around a melody.

I take the generated piece and wire it to a realistic orchestra sample.

And I have myself a score.

Scary huh? Even Hans Zimmer is threatened by this workflow.

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a. get your music played close to what you envision in your head

Get a local orchestra. Or a highly skilled low-pay one overseas.

b. produce realistic mock ups so conductors will actually agree to perform your music with A REAL ORCHESTRA

Have the balls to let someone interpret your music, possibly better than you thought possible, and have the bigger balls to say I want it this way.

c. get work on projects that don't have the budgets for real musicians

Use a smaller ensemble.

d. have your music performed closer to what you want as opposed to semi pro musicians or amateur groups that rape your music beyond recognition.

At least their rendition has character

It's called leveraging value. Both with the director of your work and musicians. For every professional orchestra there is, there's double their number in the immediate vicinity with virtually equivalent skills who did not make it into the orchestra. Starving artists are the easiest groups to take advantage of, from a business perspective, because everyone wants to make a name, and everyone wants a little money, and everyone wants an opportunity to be part of a project to pad their portfolio, and everyone wants to network. You can assemble a small ensemble of 15 people and pay an affordable fee and using some basic equipment and a room with fairly decent acoustics get yourself a real score. And if you like you can pad that with fakes.

Basically you can pay $200 or $150,000 and have your self an ensemble of muscians. As a composer you have to make a value-focused case to the director/producer to make the investment.

Why should you? Because by the end of this decade as space and memory limitations rapidly decline, the real orchestra will be obsolete, and its up to people (like you who respect the orchestra) who make the case for it to keep it alive.

I was at UC-Berkley a few months ago (during my absence from these boards) and I had an opportunity to see some of the research projects they were doing in music synthesis. All I know is, the composer himself will see a greatly diminished role in the future. There's technology that works like super-powerful actions in Photoshop. You can just about button-push musical scores. All you need is a basic melody. You define parameters, and boom it generates a dramatic underscore...lush sweeping music, heart-stopping action. It also locks up into infinite loops and crashes here and there, but...yeah. :P

Do you write music? Have you tried to make a go of it as a career? I'm just asking because some of your responses seem to be coming from someone who has the luxury of not actually dealing with these issues in the real world. As much as I certainly agree with your ideas from an aesthetic POV, you obviously haven't had people just completely fuck up your piece in performance. It's worse than disheartening. Even the session players I got on a score, while semi pro and not bad, still didn't get the rhythmic accuracy the cue needed.

Anyhoo

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Hire a few people? A small ensemble? What if they ask if you can make it sound like Zimmer? Aha! The whole point of Hollywood Strings is to give you that very expensive sound (top players and top halls).

I think every film composer today is using sampled instruments to some degree.

Alex - Who thinks Steef is just jealous because he can't be John Williams. :P

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  • 1 month later...

It's samples, not synth, Jessie, but I know what you mean. However, it should be said that some of the VSL demos sound freaking good. When working with samples, not only do you need to compose, you also have to be some kind of programming wizard.

Alex

That's the nice thing about the latest version of GPO.You can control the bulk of articulations from your keyboard,reportedly.

It's not VSL's job,btw, to sound "Hollywood",it's the composers. The LSO is NOT from Hollywood but under the baton of John Williams,they managed to SOUND "Hollywood" quite nicely,thank you very much.

I'm just glad I can't afford VSL because having to program articulations would drive me nuts! Composers have enough to do already without "programming".

Why should I hire a composer or an orchestra, if I the director can...

Hum out a melody, that a piece of software transcribes into notes.

Then I plug the contents of that software into a piece of software that builds pieces around a melody.

I take the generated piece and wire it to a realistic orchestra sample.

And I have myself a score.

Scary huh? Even Hans Zimmer is threatened by this workflow.

Nice idea,but a human is still in charge of the above workflow.

Remember when drum machines came out? How they were going to put drummers out of work?

Well,they didn't.The drummers just added another feather in their cap by becoming programmers!

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